Battered Tourism Sector Seeks Urgent Government Help

[DaleBlue]

What about free and unlimited domestic flight for ALL Farang (must hold a Foreign passport).

That surely will have a big impact.

[dubstar]

they may come here again , eventually when Thai Airways will decide to make fares at NORMAL prices .....

Strange that. Thai Airways were ofering the CHEAPEST option from UK this year.

[jesselv]

Tourism is down everywhere. Maybe not by 83% like Thailand but every tourist destination is feeling the global recession/depression. It's also true that people get tired of the 'give us your money and get the hel_l out mentality'. Another drawback is their residence policies. I'm married to a Thai person who wants to retire in Thailand. Speaking as a foreignor that would be a daunting task. Who wants to be subject to the whims of a third world government constantly in flux. When i'm old I want to relax not run around filing paperwork to stay in the country.

Thai government is responsible for much of the fall off in tourism. But Thai businesses can share some blame. Farangs are aware of the increased pricing for goods and services and are showing disapproval by simply staying home. Price gouging may fly in good times but when times are bad it's not a good idea. I do understand the Thai attitude toward property ownership. They don't need westerners, or any group, coming in and buying up land. That would be a big negative for Thai citizens. For me I don't care. Let my wife have majority interest in my Thai residence, just let me retire in peace until I'm dead. Is that so much to ask?

[macduff]

Does anyone have Sir Richard Branson's mobile# ??

If anyone in the world can, he can fix it!!

BR>Jack

I thought it was jim that can fix it!

[SabaiBKK]

they may come here again , eventually when Thai Airways will decide to make fares at NORMAL prices .....

Strange that. Thai Airways were ofering the CHEAPEST option from UK this year.

not all tourists are from uk

[harleyclarkey]

Would "battered tourists" not be more appropriate?

[Oberkommando]

is that the dicta...err..."democratically elected president" of Kazakhstan on your avatar ????????

Close, it is Turkmenbashi, leader of the Turkmen, prophet and author of the Holy Ruhnama.

He shares many things in common with another leader, not so far from home, although his revolving gold statue that always faced the sun has now been removed I believe.

Strange that. Thai Airways were ofering the CHEAPEST option from UK this year.

Cheaper than £279 return on Emirates?

[stub]

... thailand will learn a hard lesson. they need dollars or they wont have rice.

Um, don't you have that backwards??? Isn't Thailand (one of) the biggest rice (and shrimp) exporters in the world? It would be more accurate to say that if YOU don't have dollars YOU won't have rice. Agriculture remains the backbone of the Thai economy. The Thais will always have rice and will never starve. In difficult times like these the laid off factory workers just go home to their families in the country. Life goes on. Tourism only makes up 6% of Thai GDP. Even if tourism collapses completely the Thais will adapt and life will go on.

Gone are the days when every Thai family had enough farm land for self sufficiency. Now when factory workers go home they still need baht to buy rice. The big companies who now own the farm land sell the rice to the highest bidder, which won't be an out of work rural Thai.

[BlueSmurf]

they may come here again , eventually when Thai Airways will decide to make fares at NORMAL prices .....

Strange that. Thai Airways were ofering the CHEAPEST option from UK this year.

Flights are really cheap as low as 389BBP with Etihad and have heard as low as 291 with Turkish airlines.So I think there is a lot more to the lack of tourists than just the price of flights! Maybe people just do not want to come here anymore for many and varied reasons that have already been discused!

Still the baht will not Dive!!!!

[Insight]

During their 5th trip out here in 8 years, my parents got fleeced twice. This is the first trip where it's knowingly happened to them. Won't go into details about the scams here, but both me and my wife agree they were scammed using common methods that have been discussed on this forum before.

Combined with the price increases and exchange rates, it has made an impression.

[MUYTHAI]

Thailand's tourist arrivals sharply drop to a critical level, Mr. Tosaporn said, in June alone, the number of tourist arrivals has dropped from 165,000 in the same period of 2008, to 27,000 in 2009 due to the Influenza A(H1N1) outbreak, or 33.45 per cent year-on-year.

-- TNA 2009-06-17

So, 165,000 down to 27,000. That's a 138,000 less tourists....that's an 83.6% drop from 2008 to 2009. They got bigger tourism problems than they'll report. They better keep that rice exportation industry a float.

DO YOU THINK THEY WILL RECOGNIZE OUR PLACE HERE

OR WILL THEY CONTINUE TO TREAT US AS ONLY VISITORS

THEY RELY HEAVILY ON A TOURIST INDUSTRY THAT THEY SHUN DAY AFTER DAY

BUT NOW THEY ARE CRYING AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO

MAYBE A FEW LESSONS IN LONGEVITY FOR THE TOURISTS AND RESIDENT FARANGS AS WELL

Yeah, THEY better recognize YOUR PLACE in LOS. How dare they not recognize YOUR place there. THEY better do as you (foreigner) wants them to do. How dare THEY make their own rules for their own country. THEY need to do what foreigners want them to do.

Get a clue siamjimi. I hope a bunch of South Korean trash come to your country and demand that your government recognizes THEIR (Koreans) place in your country and that they tell your government what to do.

[announcer]

The Thai government's "Ready, fire, aim" philosophy is amazing. In addition, although I really love living here, I agree with just about everybody that we expats are treated like a dog's lunch in many ways. The Golden Goose will someday get tired of laying those eggs.

[liloldspirut]

It was only a matter of time - What do they expect, Tourism to be booming after all what has gone on.

I think it will go even worse unless something is done to make Tourists want to visit Thailand again.

Time will tell anyway.

My Thai/American wife of 35 years and I know this problem will persist for many years to come. First there are no visitors or tourist iin Thailand. There are only Foreigners/Farangs. People are correct the Thai police are very underpaid and left to substatiate their income with corruption. My wife and I are always stopped between Pattaya and Surin for speeding and pebbles on the tire treads, well not so bad, and we never go over 90 clicks because we try to save fuel. We know that we will only come to visit the family and just buy a home back in the states instead of here, we are sorry to say.

[mickba]

I am a American Farang ........................ Then you throw in the new visa regulations, and the new laws concerning owning property and not allowing us to buy land or homes for our wives and children.....................................

Perfect answer! A non resident observer. Sometimes it takes an outsiders observation ..............................

Strange, the above didn't sound like the words of a non-resident.

New Visa Regs meaning what? - Visa Exemption extensions being limited to 4 x 15days? If the 30 day exemption isn't enough then they'd really like you to get a proper Visa and they have been offering them free to encourage people. The actual Visa Regs haven't changed that much in my experience.

I don't think they've brought in many new land/home owning laws either - just threatened to enforce the existing ones, which many of us hoped would continue to be ignored.

The worst thing has been/is the exchange rate and I don't think they can do much about that - blame Bush & Blair/Brown if you want to.

Having said all that, it is a mess here and if I could extract myself I'd probably be in Cambodia.

The government can't make the banks and Visa stop the 150 baht ATM charge. They couldn't/wouldn't deal with the airport fiasco. They can't make the airlines reduce fares or hotels reduce rates. They can't really do much about the exchange rate without affecting other, more important things and wasn't the tourist industry only about 7-8% of GDP even before this. They hoped the Chinese would fill the gaps as the Russians seemed to have their own problems.

I'm not holding my breath for the government to do anything meaningful about this decline.

Maybe the tourist industry has to go to the wall before they rethink their business strategy. I went to Rayong Resort last week - a very nice place, but no customers whatsoever - a bit "halloween" as the GF described it. It's low/no season but they still wanted 3,900 baht a night - no chance.

[skiman1]

not to be funny but they must have seen this coming? and i'd imagine that swine 'flu has sod all to do with it.

I entirely agree, its like their vision is limited to the next meal,.

having lived in LOS for more than a year now i'm still struggling to get used to the short-termist thinking of the government.

They only think short term due to the short time they get in power before the next coup!! I think it is running at 19 in 60 years

[webfact]

The Thai government's "Ready, fire, aim" philosophy is amazing. In addition, although I really love living here, I agree with just about everybody that we expats are treated like a dog's lunch in many ways. The Golden Goose will someday get tired of laying those eggs.

and if we dare to voice our concern and critics (which is allowed in a true democracy - right?)

we are told "you can go back to your country"... What's it all about?

[BigBikeBKK]

We where due to land in Thai at 6pm Thai time for a months stay but the only reason why we decided against it was because of the swine flue. Theres every chance of contracting the virus in Thailand especially if flying internally which we do a lot when were over there.In fact any large gatherings including buses and trains.If i or my family are going to catch the virus i'd rather it be in my home country. I dont cherish the thought of being quarantined in a Thai hospital and having to pay.

Jeez...do you have an ambulance on standby every time you cross the road?

We put our health first because it seems the flu is escalating and I've read on the Internet somewhere the authorities are trying to keep a low profile on the actual figures(correct me if i'm wrong)

Hogwash (pun intended) I'm just getting over a case of the piggy flu and it's no worse than your average flu, in fact quite mild compared to some I've suffered through. The media is causing undue alarm- this is NOT a new virus, just a new strain of Influenza A. And all the talk about mutation and plague is just that- talk. Sure, a virus can mutate, and sure, North Korea could nuke Alaska, and sure an asteroid could hit the planet and wipe us all out. Doesn't mean it's going to happen! Why worry about things that are completely beyond your control? I believe it was the Japanese Zen master Takuan who said, in the face of adversity, "Seek only to be contented"...

Good advice methinks

[humfurry]

It was only a matter of time - What do they expect, Tourism to be booming after all what has gone on.

I think it will go even worse unless something is done to make Tourists want to visit Thailand again.

Time will tell anyway.

My Thai/American wife of 35 years and I know this problem will persist for many years to come. First there are no visitors or tourist iin Thailand. There are only Foreigners/Farangs. People are correct the Thai police are very underpaid and left to substatiate their income with corruption. My wife and I are always stopped between Pattaya and Surin for speeding and pebbles on the tire treads, well not so bad, and we never go over 90 clicks because we try to save fuel. We know that we will only come to visit the family and just buy a home back in the states instead of here, we are sorry to say.

Silly question, but do you think corruption would stop if the Police were paid 10 times what they are paid now?

[adamskiinasia]

Let's see. Thai generally brings in from 14,000,000 to 17,000,000 tourists per year. Let's even say its a 20-year low at say 10,000,000. Can ANYBODY explain these infantile numbers they are reporting ? Are they confusing the WEEKLY numbers ? Because Thai has hundreds of thousands of tourists in the off-season months and 2-4 million a month during the winter. If government and industry associations can't report accurate figures then who is one to trust ?

[skooldaze]

not to be funny but they must have seen this coming? and i'd imagine that swine 'flu has sod all to do with it.

I entirely agree, its like their vision is limited to the next meal,.

It's got all to do with the worldwide economic slump and nothing else. Thailand can throw all the money it wants at trying to revive the industry, but will be for naught. Thailand can't help itself out of this even if it tries. Once economies around the world start improving, people will start flying again and Thailand will once again be a favored destination due to the relatively low cost of being here -- well that and the plethora of prostitution.

On another note, this country continues to throw money at tourism and I wonder, where it's all going The TAT is just a giant self-perpetuating machine that continuously tries to justify its existence with expensive projects that do very little to attract tourists.

[Chunkton]

"I'm going to be a bit blunt here, but you know what ? Not Happy ? Go back home."

Yom07 ,you are missing a point or two.

When the visa rules changed many who could financially afford to live in Thailand were directly asked to leave.

I am under 50 years of age and have no interest in a business or working in Thailand.

I did visa runs for seven years and supported hotels,tuk-tuk drivers,taxis,buses and restaurants remaining legally in Thailand.

I supported Thai girfriends and their families and mostly enjoyed my time in Thailand.

When the country makes a blatant attempt to restrict foreign visitors they do go elsewhere.

I have stayed in Cambodia and now Indonesia since Thailand changed their visa requirements.

I have also stayed for long terms in Malaysia and Viet Nam.

The point is that there is a distinct human mechanism/condition that recognises unfairness.

When you are treated unfairly you are decidedly unhappy and then finally,you must go elsewhere.

Now the overwhelming numbers show this is a fact.

For many different reasons there is no 'going back home'.

I have spent one-third of my adult 'life' in foreign countries so 'home' is an interchangeable option and choice.

Unfortunately,for many of us,going back to Thailand is no longer a viable option.

I think this is a reasonable post, Max didn't like the changes and rather than complain about them he voted with his feet. I have just closed my business as I am now 50 and don't need the work permit, and was sick of all the costs. Plus one time I was a day late to renew my visa and I was treated like a dog and had to leave the country and pay various fines, enough is enough. No more employees and no more tax.

Rather than continue investing here as originally planned I will slowly divest all holdings so that I am not locked here any more. Then I can stay or go depending on what the current scenario is, no denying that there has been a trend emerging of harassing farang, logic would dictate it will continue. Cutting of your nose to spite your face seems a common human and government trait.

I think people also may underestimate how much effect an expat friendly or unfriendly regime can have on general tourism as many of the rules will cross over.

[backsoon]

Hmmm my math... a drop of 611%, in as 27000 goes into 165000 6.11 times....

OR... this year is 16.3 % of what the previous year was...

Airport closures, riots, global economic recession, and now H1N1.... What's next???

a 500% increase in the price of tourist visas. that'll do it.

Come on, guys'gals, give me a break! Stop Thai-bashing at every turn.

SWINE flu is not a Thai govnt fault. And the buggers can't control it more than your govnt.

Global economy is not Thai govt controlled. Look back at your govnt.

"RIOTS" take place in your country, but there you call them free democratic expression of people's feelings and ideas. And I don't care RED, YELLOW or BLUE shirts they are wearing, as long as they are not brown/black... Check your country again.

AIRPORT closure,- yes, I agree that Thai govnt lost much face there. They should not have allowed this. But the Thai govnt is weak and was fearing a bloodbath. For better, or for worse.

Once again, look back home and compare.

Having said this, I would love to kick their brains right in, where it comes to relaxing their xenophobic attitudes to all foreigners, be it tourists, expats, migrant-workers, etc. Here the list of grievances is 2552 years long. And it is the Thai govnt's attitude to all foreigners that makes Thailand feel like the nazis of the Asia.

Yet, I like the people and the land... as to the govnt, - I only see them once in 90 days...

Cheers!

[deprogrammed]

"It is the responsibility of all Thais to take as much money as possible from Farangs"

Thaksin (Thais Love Thais Party) - Quoted in BKK Post

[Chunkton]

There was a TV interview recently with an influential Expat and businessman who has been in Thailand for over 30 years -- It was primarily about the dire state of affairs of commerce in Pattaya these days.

For the first time in almost 5 years that I've been here, I heard him mildly criticize Thailand's Draconian Immigration laws.

Something to the effect that the law is based on one passed in the 1970s -- I had also heard previously, that the '70s law was based on the original one passed in the 1920s, before jet aircraft, before an airport, and when only a small number of very wealthy people could afford the time and money to travel to a remote place like Siam.

He mentioned how neighboring Asian countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, and Malaysia have modernized their Immigration laws and are attracting many retiree Expats as a result of making it easy for them to stay legal without all the intrusive detailed paperwork and reporting that Thailand requires.

He seemed to indicate that forces may be at work to make an attempt deliver a "wake-up-call" to the Thai Immigration Bureaucracy, in hopes that they might somehow discover a way to come stumbling into the 21st Century ( not holding my breath, but I have my fingers crossed )

I traveled for 17 years to the Philippines, lived there for 1.5 years, and had a business there -- I never stepped foot into their immigration office and don't even know where it's located. Renewing your Visa simply required going to a travel agent once every six months, dropping off your passport, paying a small fee, and your passport would be returned the next day with your 6 month renewal stamp.

As a retiree in "Amazing Thailand", I have to pay 6 visits to the Immigration office each year and cough up tons of intrusive personal data just to stay "legal".

.

Do you remember the name of the expat ?

The big difference SurfTrader is that all the other countries you mention

were colonised during their history - all except here which gives them " attitude " ,arrogance

whatever you want to call it - but they will never change - because they are never ever wrong about anything!

This whole colonization is an interesting point. As far as I understand it Thailand wasn't colonized as the Brits and French decided to leave it as a buffer. The King at the time was clever. However others have argued that the Japanese effectively colonized it during WWII, the only thing that ended that was the outcome of the war, no kudos to the Thais.

[luap]

we all have a view... we all have a say... most talk sh*t... and most have no idea what's happening in the real world....

... lets go to LOS .... f*** , drink, enjoy, sightsee **, tell everyone how i conquested.

Yes LOS needs 2 week million........s

[BlackJack]

after extensive research i have concluded that the beer mat incident in Phuket is responsible for the drop in tourists

[MUYTHAI]

making life easier for foreigners here and not thinking we are all dam stupid, it is us that keep this country afloat and provide the services that they need aon a professinal level, teaches to teach their kids better english so they can get a better education and provide more for their family...

getting rid of the rediculous 150 baht fee that gets added onto any atm transaction on top of ur own banks fee and the currency conversion fees.....

Stupid is as stupid does. (or posts, in this case)

Indeed where would Thailand be without people like you to teach them proper English...

Get a grip! And whether you're a tourist or an expat, there's certainly nothing forcing you to stay in Thailand.

Sure the country has serious issues. If things get worse I may well decide to pack up and leave. But what country doesn't have problems these days???

If you can't appreciate the positives you are always welcome to leave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Yep, BigBike, It makes you wonder why they left their native countries to begin with, and speaking as an ex pat I don't think there is much about Thailand that bothers me. I certainly don't expect Thailand to change their culture, politics and business to suit my tastes. Live with it or leave....

Now as far as tourist go? I avoid them like them plague, and if Thais want to figure out a way to attract a larger number of drunken Brit, Aussie, German, and American sex tourists in sleeveless tee shirts, and rip them off. Well, more power to the Thais!

Serious issues?? The whole country and its' system, from the top down, is a total mess. Lots of other countries are not as stupid as Thailand. The rip off and racism is constant and I just got tired of it.

My guess is that a lot of ex pats live there solely because it is a cheap place to live. Well, it used to be. Now there is competition from its neighbours and this does not auger well for Thailand.

Tourists?? Drunks? Sex tourists? Don't lump us all in the same cess pit.

Hmmm. So tourists are cess pit?? No wonder LOS is making it more difficult for tourists in LOS. Most other countries would not want these "cess pit" contributers (tourists) in their country either. I wonder how the three different percents of incoming tourist dollars from the three sub-categories of tourists ( "tourists", "drunks", and "sex tourists") breaks down. What percents of the Thai economy is generated by these three categories? Many expat "residents" fail to recognize that they are just long-term tourists... and nothing more. Thus, they must be "cess pit" also. You will never be accepted as a Thai would. You will always be viewed as an outsider by the majority of Thais.

Harley Clarkey...Glad to find out the you are "above" the tourists, etc.

"You handsom, high class, and Hi So Harley!" "You very important man Harley."

[kirk0233]

Amid all the many problems this country faces now it has also added an additional requrement to work visas. Previous work visas required a 2 minute visit with a doctor and if you looked healthy this was enough. Now a check for syphillis is requied. Not that it may not be a bad idea, but there seems to be a general unfriendly attitude to foreign workers with montains of paperwork even if like me, you are married to a Thai. Why make things even more difficult to work in a school in Thailand that needs English speakers to improve the communication skills of its citizens so it can be a more tourist friendly country? Is there a fear a farand will give a coworker VD?

[Busy]

Thinking realistically it has been a long time coming.

Lot’s of people used to come to Thailand for business opportunities as well, but what with all the changes in visa’s and working requirement changing from year to year,

It isn’t so appealing anymore.

Westerners have been complaining about rights (equal rights) for a long time, and not just the tourist coming to Thailand will they loose, but the long term expats will be going as well.

[jonclark]

. Now a check for syphillis is requied......

Holly smoke - I thought that disease died out in Victorian times. Maybe soon we'll have syphilis scanners at the airport too