Thai Buddist Magic/voodoo

[MishaMagic]

I am a total sceptic and firmly believe(d) all this was hocum and for those of a superstitious and, quite honestly, weak mind.. My Dad is hyper superstitious in the gypsey / romany kind of this is good and this brings bad luck but not really black magic.

Then I met my 1st Thai wife, fell very very heavily for her and lived together insanely happily with both of us being devoted to each other in a way that 99.9% of couples never are, total love at first sight and never looked at another woman while with her.

She believed strongly in this (as did some of her friends who spent money on spells and consultations)... One day I was winding her up and joking about how she said of a girl that had cast a love spell on someone etc, I was saying anything like this only worked on those that were stupid enough to believe it and to be honest mocking her a little, when she replied "Well it worked on you didnt it" that kinda shut me up...

Anyway in late 2003 she became ill and Doctors were not doing much good, she was told that someone had died in the house and wanted to see a particular witch doc on the North of the Island.. To humour her we went up there and met this strange fat little gay guy with his tiny effeminate house boy (definate dom / sub thing happening).. I had been reluctant to go and made it clear that if he was going to perform a reading to give no hints etc (I knew a guy who used to run a Gypsy Rosa Lee type fortune stall and he was quite simply great at performing 'cold readings and bullshitting.. 90% of the time people tell you want they want you to tell them)..

Anyway he knew immediately that I was not ready to be pursuaded and insisted that I not be present while they performed the reading / whatever.. They go out back for an hour or so and when Kim came back she was going on about how this guy says there was a ghost needing exhorcism etc (surprise surprise).. Again totally skeptic on my part..

Day or two later the guy comes to the house, walks around and then has a 'turn' on the stairs and faints, puts on a palaver.. After this some pigs blood was used to write some things on the stops half way up our stairs. Again he states there was a violent death at that spot and spirits that were not at rest (this is not true but he obviously gleaned it from my girl and played it to the hilt)..

He told my girl we had to move house.. If we didnt he said she would be dead in 6 months. She died 5.5 months later.

What can you say ?? What can you think ??

I'm really sorry about your girlfriend.

After reading this thread, I felt like I should add a new perspective.

From what I have seen/heard around, there are a lot of conmen who use superstition/fear to rip people off by posing as voodoo/magic practitioners/witchdoctors whatever. These people are definately dangerous and shouldnt be trusted.

But there are also a lot of used car salesman in the world, who use all kinds of confidence tricks, fast talking including NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programing) and prey on peoples low self-esteem to rip them off. They also shouldn't be trusted.

But the existence of shonky used car salesmen doen't mean that cars don't exist.

And the existence of dodgy witchdoctors doesn't mean that magic doesn't exist either.

Over the past ten years I have followed a spiritual path that has moved through Buddhism, Native American Shamanic practices and Celtic Wicca (witchcraft) /Druidry. I have also studied many forms of "alternative" healing modalities such as Reiki, Kinesiology, Crystal therapy, Hypnosis and Cranio-Sacral balancing.

I can talk to "spirits"

I can feel pain in my body where my client has pain

I can feel disturbances in the energy of a house or place

I can tell when somebody is lying or not being true to themselves

I can open my awareness to receive information about a person's illness, relationship or job situation, and give them the advice I receive.

Luckily I have never had to tell somebody they are going to die soon.

And I know enough to know that anyone who uses magic to cast any kind of spell which interferes with another person's free will (including love spells) is dealing with heavy karma.

And I find it a pity that people are so sure about their own view of the world that they have to formulate an opinion about something before they have even experienced it. It is only by being open minded that we can learn anything new.

[thaibebop]

I would to learn more about Thai Buddist tattoos. Are there different ceremonies for different tattoos? What kinds are there and do all have meaning? Is the place they are put in the body important? Sorry for all the questions. If this needs to be made it's own thread that's okay.

I don't know enough to answer all those questions properly.

But yes, they all have different meanings. Simple charms, protections against all sort of things, aggressive tattoos, and black magic that only very few masters dare to touch.

The body parts are important. As far as i know, charms and defensive tattoos are mostly put on the upper body, while agresseive tattoos are generally put on the lower body. Monks generally only do defensive tattoos, while lay teachers do whatever they see fit.

The power of the tattoo is not the tattoo itself, but the tattoo has to be activated with spell as well in a short ceremony after the tattoo is finished. Many tattoos have different strengths. Charms are generally very unproblematic, not too many rules have to be observed. Considered very strong and potentially harmful for the carrier is for example the Hanuman tattoo, there even alcohol should be avoided as it could activate the tattoo to the extent that the carrier falls in a mad sort of trance. One very interesting tattoo is a dragon on the lower arm, it is considered so strong that only very few teachers dare to do it.

There are other things as well, such as "Fang Muc", in which small glass, or metal parts are embedded under the skin. I think Luang Por Khun puts small silver balls under the skin of the arms of people as protection.

Quite popular are the ones under the foreskin of the penis (and some do here far more weird mutilations of the penis in order to enhance sexual power).

Anyhow, rather intersting, but unfortunately nowadays a tourist and media circus is the yearly big Wai Kru ceremony at Wat Bang Pa, in which the disciples of the now deceased Luang Por Poen gather en masse, and sort of fall into mass trance, the power of their tattoos taking over. Pretty wild stuff.

Every tattoo teacher has a yearly "Wai Kru" ceremony day.

The whole thing may not really have much to do with what many people consider "real buddhism", it nevertheless is a fascinating aspect of the culture here.

Wow, thanks. That post right there is a wealth of knowledge. If you think of anything more let me know, please.

[ColPyat]

Wow, thanks. That post right there is a wealth of knowledge. If you think of anything more let me know, please.

Thanks, but that's just a bit of superficial knowledge. For any real knowledge one has to seriously study that subject, including Pali and the whole symbolism.

Fascinating are also all the rapidly disappearing tattoo styles of the ethnic minorities of the region. Like the Karen tattoos who look like trousers, and are usually done when the boy is somewhere around 12 or 13 years old. I believe that there is presently in Thailand nobody left who can do those tattoos, and not that many in Burma either. They were supposed to be incredibly painful. I have once seen Thai Yai tattoos that blew me - huge black dragons and symbols all over the body. But i don't think they are still done.

An old grand uncle of my wife had some serious trouser style tattoos (he was Yuan). He told us that he had them done when they still lived in the Laotian/Chinese border region, when he was 12 years old. Unortunately he died a few years back when he was nearly 100 years old, there would have been so much more i would have liked to ask him, he was a wild one in his youth, a warrior, soldier, djungle man.

If you ever have a chance to get into what is left of the real golden triangle in wa state, you can still see some of that past. Incredibly beautyful old style temples in the Thai minority villages, wild private armies...

[thaibebop]

Wow, thanks. That post right there is a wealth of knowledge. If you think of anything more let me know, please.

Thanks, but that's just a bit of superficial knowledge. For any real knowledge one has to seriously study that subject, including Pali and the whole symbolism.

Fascinating are also all the rapidly disappearing tattoo styles of the ethnic minorities of the region. Like the Karen tattoos who look like trousers, and are usually done when the boy is somewhere around 12 or 13 years old. I believe that there is presently in Thailand nobody left who can do those tattoos, and not that many in Burma either. They were supposed to be incredibly painful. I have once seen Thai Yai tattoos that blew me - huge black dragons and symbols all over the body. But i don't think they are still done.

An old grand uncle of my wife had some serious trouser style tattoos (he was Yuan). He told us that he had them done when they still lived in the Laotian/Chinese border region, when he was 12 years old. Unortunately he died a few years back when he was nearly 100 years old, there would have been so much more i would have liked to ask him, he was a wild one in his youth, a warrior, soldier, djungle man.

If you ever have a chance to get into what is left of the real golden triangle in wa state, you can still see some of that past. Incredibly beautyful old style temples in the Thai minority villages, wild private armies...

In may studying I have come across mentions of this yet haven't found a strong source of information yet. One of the reasons I want to research in Thailand.

[camerata]

There are other things as well, such as "Fang Muc", in which small glass, or metal parts are embedded under the skin. I think Luang Por Khun puts small silver balls under the skin of the arms of people as protection.

Quite popular are the ones under the foreskin of the penis (and some do here far more weird mutilations of the penis in order to enhance sexual power).

What I read about fang mook ("burying the pearl") while researching HIV/AIDS in Thailand some years ago was that it was a pearl, or more commonly a smooth stone, inserted under the skin of the penis to enhance the pleasure of the female. Because of the unhygenic way it was done, it tended to increase the risk of HIV transmission.

[thaibebop]

There are other things as well, such as "Fang Muc", in which small glass, or metal parts are embedded under the skin. I think Luang Por Khun puts small silver balls under the skin of the arms of people as protection.

Quite popular are the ones under the foreskin of the penis (and some do here far more weird mutilations of the penis in order to enhance sexual power).

What I read about fang mook ("burying the pearl") while researching HIV/AIDS in Thailand some years ago was that it was a pearl, or more commonly a smooth stone, inserted under the skin of the penis to enhance the pleasure of the female. Because of the unhygenic way it was done, it tended to increase the risk of HIV transmission.

That sounds like it would hurt!

[ColPyat]

What I read about fang mook ("burying the pearl") while researching HIV/AIDS in Thailand some years ago was that it was a pearl, or more commonly a smooth stone, inserted under the skin of the penis to enhance the pleasure of the female. Because of the unhygenic way it was done, it tended to increase the risk of HIV transmission.

Many materials are used, as far as i know. Inserting pearls is especially done in prisons, and as far as i now many lower class gays here are into it as well. I have heard that far nastier penis mutialations are common here as well, such as splitting the penis, and injecting silicon until the willy gets groce proportions.

[thaibebop]

What I read about fang mook ("burying the pearl") while researching HIV/AIDS in Thailand some years ago was that it was a pearl, or more commonly a smooth stone, inserted under the skin of the penis to enhance the pleasure of the female. Because of the unhygenic way it was done, it tended to increase the risk of HIV transmission.

Many materials are used, as far as i know. Inserting pearls is especially done in prisons, and as far as i now many lower class gays here are into it as well. I have heard that far nastier penis mutialations are common here as well, such as splitting the penis, and injecting silicon until the willy gets groce proportions.

OMG!!! How could they do that?!!

[ColPyat]

OMG!!! How could they do that?!!

I have met once a bisexual Austrian kid on the day he was released after a year prison here (very strange, he managed to persuade the judge not to deport him, most likely because he was very young, spoke absolutely fluent Thai, and simply had nowhere to go back to), he had some heavy 'fang muc' done in jail, a dozen or so glass beads inserted in his willy. He has shown it to me - it did look very strange.

[SamuiRes]

THEN later than evening me and my friend ate outside at a Burger king, before leaving I left my mobile phone on the table, didn't realise I didn't have it untill about an hour later at home, in my mind, wrote it off, but called it anyway, a girl answered from Burger King, I'll be collecting it later today!

Now I'm by no means 'converted' but a nice little story of idiosynchracy I think!

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My sentiments exactly Meadish, although have not heard a great many tales of taxi drivers returning left belongings, I was pleasantly surprized by that!

Lost my phone three times at various times over a few months in a taxi in Bangkok and every time the taxi driver brought it back. They are not all bad you see!

[bina]

my first thai partner here in israel had three glass beads in his penis; he made the beads by filing glass shards during breaks at work; after inserting them he took penicillin for three days...he inserted them togerther with a few other guys after drinking lao, each guy inserted his own... he still has them although his wife does not like them he is too afraid to remove them!!!

my now thai partner had two but removed them by himself since they bothered me; rather then enhancing, they just bugged me.. they are just under the skin so he just slit the skin and popped the beads out.... no sex for a few days until the wound heals... (and lao for for sterilizing the area ouch!)

[robitusson]

my first thai partner here in israel had three glass beads in his penis; he made the beads by filing glass shards during breaks at work; after inserting them he took penicillin for three days...he inserted them togerther with a few other guys after drinking lao, each guy inserted his own... he still has them although his wife does not like them he is too afraid to remove them!!!

my now thai partner had two but removed them by himself since they bothered me; rather then enhancing, they just bugged me.. they are just under the skin so he just slit the skin and popped the beads out.... no sex for a few days until the wound heals... (and lao for for sterilizing the area ouch!)

Buddhism related how?

[sabaijai]

my first thai partner here in israel had three glass beads in his penis; he made the beads by filing glass shards during breaks at work; after inserting them he took penicillin for three days...he inserted them togerther with a few other guys after drinking lao, each guy inserted his own... he still has them although his wife does not like them he is too afraid to remove them!!!

my now thai partner had two but removed them by himself since they bothered me; rather then enhancing, they just bugged me.. they are just under the skin so he just slit the skin and popped the beads out.... no sex for a few days until the wound heals... (and lao for for sterilizing the area ouch!)

Buddhism related how?

I was wondering the same thing.

[thaibebop]

my first thai partner here in israel had three glass beads in his penis; he made the beads by filing glass shards during breaks at work; after inserting them he took penicillin for three days...he inserted them togerther with a few other guys after drinking lao, each guy inserted his own... he still has them although his wife does not like them he is too afraid to remove them!!!

my now thai partner had two but removed them by himself since they bothered me; rather then enhancing, they just bugged me.. they are just under the skin so he just slit the skin and popped the beads out.... no sex for a few days until the wound heals... (and lao for for sterilizing the area ouch!)

Buddhism related how?

I was wondering the same thing.

This spun out of asking about Buddhists tattoos. ColPyat was telling me of the different things people did to bring them what? power I guess as suggested by Thai Buddhists folk lore. Other people added their two cents as well.

[bina]

just went on a tangent if u had read thru the thread....

i didnt relize that the beads were supposed to have extraordinary powers anyway...

back to voodoo or whatever

btw thai related because i've never met any western male doing this stuff just thai men

[sabaijai]

just went on a tangent if u had read thru the thread....

i didnt relize that the beads were supposed to have extraordinary powers anyway...

back to voodoo or whatever

btw thai related because i've never met any western male doing this stuff just thai men

Well, it's good to see you back in this forum branch at any rate. Guess it relates as much as the magic/voodoo does ....

[labom]

Not sure wat u r talking about in this topic ( hehehe too lazy sorry ) But i just wanna post mine here cos today i went to some amulet market.. n i saw LOOK GROG ( sorry i dont have thai font yet, when i dl it i would re-type ) n i wonder if anyone of ppl here have it

LOOK Grog is dead baby.. not GUmarn thong... hmmm maybe i should get thai font b4 post here eh...

As for beads i know some but wat kind of beads r u looking for? Lek lai? Rae Nam pee?

Edited May 2, 2006 by labom

[ColPyat]

As for beads i know some but wat kind of beads r u looking for? Lek lai? Rae Nam pee?

Lek Lai and Lek Nam Pii are generally not used as "fang muc' for insertions. That is mainly glass or silver beads.

Lek nam pii was made into ceremonial daggers and swords, is not stainless, and therefore would be the first way to get nasty infections. The beads seen nowadays are actually not the iron itself, but some sort of clay mixed with the iron, also used for amulets.

Most Lek Lai seen in the markets are fake, i am lucky, i have a ring with real Lek Lai wich was given to my wife by an old monk who found the Lek Lai himself. I got also some piece of Lek Nam pii that was found before the the temple area was closed off for digging, plus several amulets.

[bina]

thanx for the re welcome sabai....

i go in pulses of info... plus high season at work....

what happens to someone (u know what i mean, not lightening striking down or whatever, but ...) if they steal someone elses amulets ??? i had some of my bf's amulets with a bhudda above my bed ( my kids know better then to touch them, etc)... but they've disappeared... no israelis would touch the things --lack of interest, but thai male friend came to visit.... he holds large large grudge against bf... would one thai steal someone elses amulets from a home???? (not talking about antique thieves, or money etc) as a revenge thing???? these are issaan guys...

my boyfriend is upset about it; not sure if its the sentimental value or the 'magicall' value, or from his time as a monk?... they were wrapped in an orange kerchief with pali script on it....

i will upload a pic later, no time now........

kind of curious and one of these things that i cant get info about from bfriend... (not women's business kind of attitude)

[silv]

Hi everybody, i'm a newbie on this forum. The reason i'm here is because i'm a chinese female living in NY who is very serious about doing a research on Thai Voodoo and if possible i would like to learn it. I hope i don't offend anybody by saying that. I am a very superstitious person. I strongly believe Voodoo exists since i was a little girl already. I guess that's because i heard a lot of stories from people around me. There aren't many Thai people in NY so it's very difficult for me to learn and understand about Voodoo. I've been searching for Thai community in NY for a while but with no luck. I would really appreciate if anybody on this forum can tell me how and where can i get more information about Thai Voodoo. Any info on any website is fine as long as is in English or Chinese. It would be better if somebody know a Thai voodoo practitioner located in NYC and give me the location. Thank you for reading my post!!

[cm das]

For anyone who recently discovered this topic (like me) & is interested, I just found a site where you can download an audiobook of Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World. The link is http://disgruntledmass.v2.nl/media/AudioBo...ted%20world.mp3

[JimsKnight]

This is a pretty good topic guys and gals! Keep it going

[keithaustin]

Thai (Cambodian actually) voodoo not only exists in Thailand - it works. I know from personal experiences because I lived there for 6 years. Of course, the practitioner of the voodoo has to know what he/she is doing and the 'victim' has to be susceptible to voodoo - i.e. has weak or no defence to voodoo. The ingredients to uniquely identify the 'victim' are hair, skin or saliva (DNA), date of birth (and hopefully the time) and a recent photograph. It cannot be used for large financial gain (such as winning the jackpot on the lottery because there would be hundreds of thousands of winners) or widespread destruction. It is at its most powerful when one person is the 'victim' and the expectation is realistic. Loving or hating a person, making a person sick, have an accident and also killing a person are some of the things that can be done. Also it can make a person never or always be believed. I have written a book about my experiences in Thailand and though I have described the book as 'fiction', it is 95% based on the true experiences of myself and other people. The voodoo experiences are totally based on my own experiences. <spam deleted>

Keith Austin

[fabianfred]

When I was living in Chiangmai I met a girl and became interested in her....and she in me. I visited her home near Prachinburi whilst she was there, going by bus with another girl who had been her friend and co-worker in CM. After return to CM a while i decided to go and visit her again by riding there on my motorcycle.....(I had often passed by close to Prachinburi on the route to Pattaya I had taken several times.)

She was pleased, and surprised that i had remembered the route from town to her home which was some way out of town. I got on well with her family too. She had asked me to buy her a gold chain which i had brought with me and I gave it to her. A man came around with a pick-up truck selling furniture and tried to get me to buy some, but I didn't. At night I slept on the floor beside her bed....we had not yet slept together although I knew she wasn't a virgin since she had fled CM where she had been in a bad relationship. She had insisted I use the bed and she sleep on the floor....I was too much of a gentleman for that. I cannot remember exactly now....but I think it was the next day when she suddenly changed. She acted like she hated me and refused to speak to me or explain why? The family were as confused as I. She gave me back the gold chain which I gave to the mother and said to return it to her later when she got over whatever was troubling her.

By late afternoon I'd had enough and decided to leave.

She later phoned me in CM and said to come and visit to get her mother to return the gold chain to her as she was refusing to do so and kept it for herself. I said I had wasted one trip and wasn't going back.

A year later, after I had met my present wife, but was still living in CM, (I had yet to move to Fang into my wife's parents house and start living there before the marriage)...the girl turned up at my flat. She was crying and distraught that I was going to be with another girl and begged me to return to her. She said the problem had been caused by the furniture man who had taken a liking to her and got someone to put a spell on her.(Prachinburi being close to the border with Cambodia where the Thais say they had strong powers in black magic.)

I consoled her but said that all that was in the past now and my life had taken a different turn. She returned home and often rang me for a chat, even after my marriage, and I had explained everything to my wife, so she understood.

[fabianfred]

Luang por jaran got a spell off a khmer guy when he was a teenager, which caused the victim to be unable to pass water....if left on the victim would die after three days. He tried it on his elder sister and removed it after two days.... the karmic retribution caused him to suffer in a similar way but he bore it stoically, knowing the cause, and being determined to pay for any past karma in this, his last lifetime.

[TawonTawons]

hi i am new here... my name is khoo...

i really need sum help on breaking a love spell....

it happen to my girlfriend, we had been in love deep and we never be parted for so long,

and now there's this guy taht just came back from thailand has been goin out wit her, and she has not been seeing me for round 2 months,

and she's been acting weird since then, she's been msg me saying she love this guy alot but after a few while she loves me back.....

is been very very weird...... just a few hours back she likes the guy and wanted him to be her bf, but after a few while she msg me again saying she dun have any feelings with this guy again and wanted to be with me again....

she started to scare of me and avoiding from me, i never done anything to scared her, i mean even wen we are together while holding her hands i also ask for permissions....

she admit herself has been weird lately and admit herself is under sum spells...... i am really worried bout her.....

PLEASE!!! anyone with knowledge on how to stop this please let me know.....

really will be very very thankfull if anyone could help in this method...

Yes , I can help you with this issue contacted me on my facebook so I could go in to detail.

[sabaijai]

hi i am new here... my name is khoo...

i really need sum help on breaking a love spell....

it happen to my girlfriend, we had been in love deep and we never be parted for so long,

and now there's this guy taht just came back from thailand has been goin out wit her, and she has not been seeing me for round 2 months,

and she's been acting weird since then, she's been msg me saying she love this guy alot but after a few while she loves me back.....

is been very very weird...... just a few hours back she likes the guy and wanted him to be her bf, but after a few while she msg me again saying she dun have any feelings with this guy again and wanted to be with me again....

she started to scare of me and avoiding from me, i never done anything to scared her, i mean even wen we are together while holding her hands i also ask for permissions....

she admit herself has been weird lately and admit herself is under sum spells...... i am really worried bout her.....

PLEASE!!! anyone with knowledge on how to stop this please let me know.....

really will be very very thankfull if anyone could help in this method...

Yes , I can help you with this issue contacted me on my facebook so I could go in to detail.

That post was made five years ago.