World's Largest Expat Survey Reveals Crunch Hits Expats Hard

[sunholidaysun1]

So with regard to the Thais and Thai Government who seem to be kicking most of us in the teeth , they will only have themselves to blame when so many will uproot and leave .

Lets see what happens to the local economies over the next few months with countless businesses going bust , rental properties empty , and countless other ways that we spend our monnies here that will affect every Thai business . With OUR contribution not being spent in Thailand , regardless of the amount , we all spend without it - Lets see who smiles then when NO money is coming in.

When I was reading this, it seemed to me you are blaming Thais (people and Govt) for what is more or less accepted as a global economic meltdown (one which didn't originate in Thailand, or Asia for that matter). And further, you seem to be reveling in delight that when you leave, Thais will be getting what they deserve "som num naa style".

Well, by your own admission, you live on the bread line in Thailand, so you are hardly the contribution that you may think you are to the local economy. And with that attitude, perhaps Thais would be happier to see the back of you...

Meaning, THOSE Thai's and Government officials , not the general public, but those who make living here an issue , not just for the Expat but for the tourist and Thai's alike . As for the Global Melt down , accepted , we are all aware of that. What I was trying to say is that even though the crunch has hit US , the government are not considering the effect on US or themselves if we do leave. With mismanagement in Immigration , they are not helping themselves or us -Expats or the tourists who wont come due to financial reasons and the other issues Thailand have with visa's , red shirt protesters etc and terrorism in the south .

As for my own personal 'Bread Line' , it depends on how much I have . I can assure you my breadline is enough to keep me happy , meaning I have just enough to live on , which is not as much as some but possibly the same as many - Pensions dont make you rich unless you were rich to start with.

[cudaproject]

Many of the larger companies like Diethelm with expats have laid off, others have returned home by their own free will. Others like me who are self employed in Thailand have been hit hard. The yellow shirts destroyed our business completely in 11 days and the red shirts added the nails in the coffin. As business has now just started to turn slightly - the news of red short demonstrations again on 27th June is simply frickin stupid.

Expats are happy to be here as long as they earn... and we employ Thai's. And we provide services Thai's to date, have been unable to supply, as well as penetrate markets unavailable to Thai's. Of all the people I know here in similar fields, all have suffered, Thais and expats, due to the stupidity of the politics and that means about 50% of the expats have already left with more planning the same thing.

If The Govt stands by and allows the world to see protests, security being ignored, beheadings n the South, expats in general will have to leave as no point bringing their expertise and knowledge to a country that ignores the importance of knowledge transfer and seeking security of tenure. They may as well sit back home and retire to a social security system as there is no longer an incentive to remain here!

HSBC may have done a 'survey' but I bet most of the information has not taken into account loss of deposits and funds transfers out. No deposits, no leveraged funds against deposits so the banks will start losing money too. Put a value on that and HSBC should be the one liaising with the Thai Govt to improve the situation. Tourism may be the majority and their target but with an image as tarnished as it now is, perhaps they should address the brain drain and business insolvency. I have fired all my Thai staff in the last month so that puts hardships on Thai's let alone Expats. I know another in the same business who put off 25 to save 800,000 a month in wages. We feel sorry for them all but survival is survival. Go figure.

Just out of interest, what is/was your line of business.. Intrigued to know how the yellow shirts affected it and completely destroyed it in 11 days.

[kanvas]

Expats are being stripped out of the management of many companies over here, and naturally they return home.

Ironically, I completed this survey and remember there are many different versions of expat. Full deal-short secondment, full deal-long term, long term stayers with offshore payments etc etc. The survey was attached to the HSBC offshore banking website, so by definition it has some pretty high earners in it's customers.

I know of at least 10 pretty senior people with families in Bangkok who have been repatriated, 6 with jobs back home and 4 basically fired and repatriated.

This is the way it goes. You come overseas and take the benefits and the cash, but it is wise to remember where you come from and make sure the benefits allow you to create something to go back to.

worlds largest ex- pat survey 3100 people in 50 countries thats 62 per country !

sure thats credible?

[maxman71]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name.

I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch.

Yes I was thinking the same thing myself. Just because he demonstrates an attitude consistent with that of an American does not necessarily mean Todd is an American.

And just what is "an attitude consistent with that of an American..."??? Personally, some of the rudest people I have met in Thailand are from Euroland.

[Texpat]

credible? yes.

valid? no.

The objectionable attitude is optimism and happiness.

Many here just want to be miserable.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Texpat

[crusader79]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name.

I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch.

Yes I was thinking the same thing myself. Just because he demonstrates an attitude consistent with that of an American does not necessarily mean Todd is an American.

I don't know, sounds more like a former SAS man to me, the kind that fabricated so much of Bravo Two Zero for a fat publishing contract...let me recheck my book of racial stereotypes....

[HydeParke]

Expats are being stripped out of the management of many companies over here, and naturally they return home.

Ironically, I completed this survey and remember there are many different versions of expat. Full deal-short secondment, full deal-long term, long term stayers with offshore payments etc etc. The survey was attached to the HSBC offshore banking website, so by definition it has some pretty high earners in it's customers.

I know of at least 10 pretty senior people with families in Bangkok who have been repatriated, 6 with jobs back home and 4 basically fired and repatriated.

This is the way it goes. You come overseas and take the benefits and the cash, but it is wise to remember where you come from and make sure the benefits allow you to create something to go back to.

[Texpat]

racial stereotype? Howzat?

This is a weird thread.

[Crossy]

Whilst I've certainly been hit in the pocket (no salary increase this year) I've actually got more work than I can handle. Sadly, most of it's in India and Abu Dahbi

[sassienie]

Expats are being stripped out of the management of many companies over here, and naturally they return home.

Ironically, I completed this survey and remember there are many different versions of expat. Full deal-short secondment, full deal-long term, long term stayers with offshore payments etc etc. The survey was attached to the HSBC offshore banking website, so by definition it has some pretty high earners in it's customers.

I know of at least 10 pretty senior people with families in Bangkok who have been repatriated, 6 with jobs back home and 4 basically fired and repatriated.

This is the way it goes. You come overseas and take the benefits and the cash, but it is wise to remember where you come from and make sure the benefits allow you to create something to go back to.

worlds largest ex- pat survey 3100 people in 50 countries thats 62 per country !

sure thats credible?

Those are more thoughts, exactly.

I wouldn’t take this survey too seriously.

How did they come to the conclusion that these minuscule amounts of ex pats that took part in the survey are representative of all ex pats worldwide?

[scotbeve]

Hmmmm...

It was a bit slow at the beginning of the year in the oil & gas industry but it's picked up.

Yes, the global recession has hit the (greedy barstewards) oil companies after their mega-profits last year and they're "initiating cost effectiveness" by hiring much a cheaper - less experienced labor force...

5M baht per year is okay but it should've been 5.5M !!!!

[Canadianvisitor]

Why would anyone earning over $200,000/year only have $36,000 of disposable income? Maybe it is just the usual tendency of Thai journalism to get numbers completely wrong.

Noooo silly! Stop picking on people! Disposable income means the money they have left over after they pay the maid, the mortgage, the car payment, the country club chit, the accountant, the lawyer, etc. THEN they still have $36,000 (USD) to spend on holidays, booze, hairdo's, you know the fringe accessories.

Yes I was thinking the same thing myself. Just because he demonstrates an attitude consistent with that of an American does not necessarily mean Todd is an American.

And now for my two cents..... why is everybody so nasty to each others country of origin? Many, many, ill mannered people are from all over. It's so easy to be an a#sh*le. Anybody can do it really.

Given all the misgivings of policy, politics, and culture I found Thailand one of the nicest places I have ever been. Life is tough all over. "Todd" was a tad arrogant, so was our friend that referred to him as an American. Where did that come from? The quote could have easily been a Canadian as most of my "self-centred, me-generation, selfish, brainwashed, socially inept" friends (and I mean all that in a good way), talk like that all the time.

Those friends are far too scared to venture out in the World to experience anything more than an all inclusive resort in Acapulco, Mexico. I suppose that is what makes "us" cut from a different cloth. We ALL at least have the inquisitive minds to explore foreign culture and be expats in the first place.

Insofar as the survey goes, it must have been pretty difficult to find that many people, in that income bracket, to fill out a survey in the first place. I firmly believe the worst is yet to come. When Russia, China, India and Iran decide to close down the USD, the whole enchilada is going to change in a big way. Methinks human rights have reached thier peak already.

Oh and god (small "g" god, whoever he might be) bless the people of Thailand, who, with faults like everyone, have never treated me with anything but kindness, and smoothed me out some dough because I was new at the time, that was my fault not theirs.

Just my opinion.

[baht&sold]

credible? yes.

valid? no.

The objectionable attitude is optimism and happiness.

Many here just want to be miserable.

No, no, many here CHOOSE to be miserable, led by the pipers, stoking inherent dominant traits of this forum = cha-ching (just biznesss y'all;)

[tjb30i]

belgium people... what do you want... 50-55% of their gross income goes directly to taxes !!!!!

who earns 3.300.000 baht per year ??? djees

full or rich people here on this forum, specially the owner

Speaking from a Belgium XPAT and who knows a lot of them we don't get landed with the 50-55% tax as most XPATS are tax equalized and only pay tax rates from their country of origin if they are with a Multi National company. In my case it is the US and tax nets around 25%. Amazed by the % below $100K. I don't know one that would be earning less than 200K a year and most of them well over 300K. If they earn less than 100K they are getting screwed at 71K Euros with a high cost of living. Better off going back home.

[damian5000]

$3000 a month to spend is only Bt100,000 (approx) which is not that much and certainly not a luxurious living. Double that and you begin to have a nice lifestyle.

$100k a year is not a lot of money really. Sure isn't after taxes.

You've lost contact with reality buddy.

[BSJ]

Life's tough for a lot of people all over the world. I feel the pain from the depression we are experiencing, my income is down substancially. But I will survive. How about the poor suckers on nothing to a few hundred baht a day. Will they survive?

[Jungian]

I don't buy it for a second. If the economy in the UK and the USA are so bad (which I know it is in the USA) and the average expat is getting 200,000B per month (which I highly doubt from the USA anyway as that is like $6000) why would anyone in their right mind go back. The fact is you can live in Thailand quite well for 50,000B per month providing you own your accommodation and transportation (which most legal expats do) I couldn't rent a cardboard box for that in the city where I am from. This "survey" is seriously flawed. I would suggest those leaving Thailand would be the people doing the border runs and working illegally as Thailand is cracking down on "perpetual tourists" and it is getting too expensive for them to run the border every 2 weeks. I think this is the most inaccurate study I have ever seen, it may rate up there with "cigarettes are not addictive".

[bf2002]

I hear your point, but what government are you talking about? The last 3 governments should make it clear it is the color not on the street protesting that is the group in office. The yellow shirts broke the laws and protested when the reds were in office, and now it is vice versa...this is obvious. And most farang expats were stupid enough to play along, and look what they got in return.

Let them burn their own house down. That is the only way they are going to learn. The history of what's happened makes this pretty clear.

Many of the larger companies like Diethelm with expats have laid off, others have returned home by their own free will. Others like me who are self employed in Thailand have been hit hard. The yellow shirts destroyed our business completely in 11 days and the red shirts added the nails in the coffin. As business has now just started to turn slightly - the news of red short demonstrations again on 27th June is simply frickin stupid.

Expats are happy to be here as long as they earn... and we employ Thai's. And we provide services Thai's to date, have been unable to supply, as well as penetrate markets unavailable to Thai's. Of all the people I know here in similar fields, all have suffered, Thais and expats, due to the stupidity of the politics and that means about 50% of the expats have already left with more planning the same thing.

If The Govt stands by and allows the world to see protests, security being ignored, beheadings n the South, expats in general will have to leave as no point bringing their expertise and knowledge to a country that ignores the importance of knowledge transfer and seeking security of tenure. They may as well sit back home and retire to a social security system as there is no longer an incentive to remain here!

HSBC may have done a 'survey' but I bet most of the information has not taken into account loss of deposits and funds transfers out. No deposits, no leveraged funds against deposits so the banks will start losing money too. Put a value on that and HSBC should be the one liaising with the Thai Govt to improve the situation. Tourism may be the majority and their target but with an image as tarnished as it now is, perhaps they should address the brain drain and business insolvency. I have fired all my Thai staff in the last month so that puts hardships on Thai's let alone Expats. I know another in the same business who put off 25 to save 800,000 a month in wages. We feel sorry for them all but survival is survival. Go figure.

[webfact]

I don't buy it for a second. If the economy in the UK and the USA are so bad (which I know it is in the USA) and the average expat is getting 200,000B per month (which I highly doubt from the USA anyway as that is like $6000) why would anyone in their right mind go back. The fact is you can live in Thailand quite well for 50,000B per month providing you own your accommodation and transportation (which most legal expats do) I couldn't rent a cardboard box for that in the city where I am from. This "survey" is seriously flawed. I would suggest those leaving Thailand would be the people doing the border runs and working illegally as Thailand is cracking down on "perpetual tourists" and it is getting too expensive for them to run the border every 2 weeks. I think this is the most inaccurate study I have ever seen, it may rate up there with "cigarettes are not addictive".

its not a true figure. In Europe or Canada the average salary is much less than that!!!

[bjderb]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Well, that may be alright for those fellows that work here in Thailand, but what about the chaps that are here in retirement in particular the (Brits) in the first place they had to live with their frozen state pension, and now as a result of the current economical crisis they have seen the value of the British Pound fallen by some 30%, a double Whammy so to speak, as a result some expat (Brits) can't no longer afford to remain here, and have to return back to the UK, so that they can claim social benefits there in order to live somewhat decently.

Tango Sierra

[grantbkk]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name.

I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch.

Yes I was thinking the same thing myself. Just because he demonstrates an attitude consistent with that of an American does not necessarily mean Todd is an American.

I've met this guy in every bar in Thailand eventually. Ex-CIA and Ex-special forces of some kind. Perhaps taken prisoner in the Vietnam war although he would have been 11 years old at the time. Probably the product of too many books of fiction. Yes, I'm sad to say he was an American 75% of the time.

[bkk_mike]

Why would anyone earning over $200,000/year only have $36,000 of disposable income? Maybe it is just the usual tendency of Thai journalism to get numbers completely wrong.

Noooo silly! Stop picking on people! Disposable income means the money they have left over after they pay the maid, the mortgage, the car payment, the country club chit, the accountant, the lawyer, etc. THEN they still have $36,000 (USD) to spend on holidays, booze, hairdo's, you know the fringe accessories.

Exactly. Factor in that expats may well still have mortgages in their home countries, almost certainly have to pay for their kids schooling (company paying for schools is usually only for 3 years), added on to local mortgage / rent, health care costs, and actual spare cash each month can be a lot less than people think when they see the initial salary.

(Don't get me wrong - in general the quality of life is a lot better - but you tend to pick the best place to live, schools, etc that you can afford.)

(It's why the new 50% tax rate for high earners in the UK is worrying a lot of people I know - because they don't have the spare cash after mortgage payments and kid's school fees. And it's not as if the government isn't moving goalposts AFTER they got the mortgage, picked the school, etc.)

[ianh68]

We're doing good also. We sell underpants and sales havn't slipped. still believe that 60% of guys here change there's everyday and replace them at least every 9 months

As long as the underpants don't slip either, you're OK.

[Old Man River]

I suspect the expats being surveyed were earning big Western style, full package salaries with big MNC's, well over 300,000 baht per month. Pardon me, pass the caviar.

Which wouldn't the least be any different from expats at MNC's all over the world. So why is Thailand and South Africa being specifically targeted? It makes absolutely no sense. Nobody here is making anymore money at an MNC than they would at postings anywhere else in the world.

I don't like caviar.

[morningglory]

Wow...!

ThaiVisa is a great source for information about Thailand but I've never felt compelled to create an account and offer my opinion on anything... Until now.

Todd (...in answer to a previous posters question regarding whether this individual is from the U.S or not; in over 44 years I've yet to meet a Brit named Todd, but I've met a few americans who were)... So.... Todd, I sincerely hope that you display better judgement when you are 'doing' your high end security, protection and guarding than you did by submitting this post.

I have had the sad misfortune to have met a number of individuals over the past 6 years in the middle east who displayed a similar 'I'm going to make a fortune' attitude, and regardless of the fact that they were (to my utter astonishment) in positions of grave responsibility, I can honestly say that I wouldn't trust them to run a security detail at Tescos.

Unfortunately, the U.S. (and the brits also it has to be said, but to a lesser extent) has made a habit of giving high level security clearances to individuals who are woefully unqualified to do the kind of work that Todd has so modestly referred to in his post. This unfortunately leads to a perception amongst the uninitiated that ALL those who work in this field have an attitude similar to that held by Todd.

I'd just like to redress the balance somewhat and say that we are not all Walter Mitty characters... But thanks for reinforcing the stereotype Todd... Pity your clients haven't had an opportunity to read your post.... If you were employed by me I would pull the plug immediately.

Apologies for bringing the mood down....keep smiling Thailand...

[nikster]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name.

I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch.

The attitude gave it away... :D

[neverdie]

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

Horray for Todd and screw the rest of the world. Jerks like this are what gives expats and Americans a bad name.

I missed the reference to Todd being American. Can you kindly point it out? Thanks a bunch.

The attitude gave it away...

It could of been the whine or the smell that gave it away

[Wellmeant]

Love to get something going, but am disabled. Vietnam Vet.

wm

hONESTLY???

The worse it gets here, the more money I make...

I do High End Security, Protection, and Guarding along with some few ex-Thai Naval Spec Ops Guys.

I am going to make a fortune...

I love where we are, and I love Thailand...

Kit meshu-hopn na-nake

todd

[sevenhills]

I'm doing quite a lot of hosting and domain registrations... been a bit low in new registrations, but hardly any drop outs. Business is ok I guess, but will definitely not hit the numbers I calculated for this year. The other part of the company is doing not so well... I'm just happy it is carrying it's own weight and I wont have to fire the staff it took me years to get together.

p.s. This is a news about an expat survey, so it makes sense that TV is asking expats in their own survey attached to this news...

I have lived here in Thailand now for 18 months, and found the best business right here on Thai Visa not so long back, so now I have sacked the Boss and work here in Thailand for myself. I'm not sure if I can post the URL here, but here it is. It may help someone else, Thanks.

[dogleg]

I'm doing quite a lot of hosting and domain registrations... been a bit low in new registrations, but hardly any drop outs. Business is ok I guess, but will definitely not hit the numbers I calculated for this year. The other part of the company is doing not so well... I'm just happy it is carrying it's own weight and I wont have to fire the staff it took me years to get together.

p.s. This is a news about an expat survey, so it makes sense that TV is asking expats in their own survey attached to this news...

I have lived here in Thailand now for 18 months, and found the best business right here on Thai Visa not so long back, so now I have sacked the Boss and work here in Thailand for myself. I'm not sure if I can post the URL here, but here it is. It may help someone else, Thanks.

I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look. I'm not going to look. Ah S*t I looked!