British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists

[Datsun240Z]

Keep it up Thailand. Well done!

You'll put yourselves right back in the 3rd World before you know it.

mm eh? pardon me, but where else is it right now?

When the police can basically kidnap people in broad daylight and extort money but the courts exonerate you and everyone tries to shut up about it, that is somewhere close to Zimbabwe in terms of policing which puts it way below 3rd world standard.

It's the 4th world:

[norwayeagle]

If so,this contingent of people is in jeopardy as well.Ps: i have nothing against muslim people.only the fanatics and those people are in Christianity as well ++.

[antony77]

Everybody should boycott or avoid king power shops, anyway it's always more expensive than on the streets.

A truly extraordinary matter. Is the Sri Lankan really attached to his Embassy? I can't see them employing a con man.

Why did the couple meekly submit? Why didn't the UK Embassy make a fuss. Kingpower would not want to loose business

by bad publicity by being involved in a petty scam. Even famous people shoplift and then vehemently deny it. Perhaps they did shoplift and having been caught, some unscrupulous people took advantage of them by threatening them. The whole matter seems very fishy even for Thailand and one should not make assumptions about what goes on here before the whole facts are known. There are usually two sides to every such story.

[jeffer]

Shocking how the British Embassy offered them jack sh*t in the way of help ?????

From the article:

"The Foreign Office said consular officials had offered to raise the case with the Thai authorities at the time but had been asked by the couple not to intervene."

maybe the choice was to pay up now and get back home , or have the embassy approach and then get transferred to a normal jail for a couple of weeks while it was all sorted out ?

And it's precisely why this sort of scam can continue.

Some people say they would fight the charge if they themselves were innocent, how they would never plead guilty, but people know the reputation of Thai jails. Given the choice between paying several thousand pounds or spending weeks, months or possibly longer in a squalid and overcrowded jail cell waiting for your case to come to court with no guarantee of the verdict and virtually no possibility of securing compensation if wrongfully accused then people pay up so they can get on with their lives. 

You can be sure for every person that goes to the media there are many more too ashamed or embarrassed to do so. You only need to look at the Simon Burrowes case and imagine the cost of being detained in Thailand for an extended period e.g. loss of income or job, legal fees, distress caused to your family etc. When people say they would fight charges in Thailand then I think many are not taking in to account the consequences or simply believe it could never happen to them.

[dbrenn]

The biggest source of money for Thailand is tourism.

Not true - tourism only accounts for 6% of Thailand's economy.

[dbrenn]

............... and Thailand takes another hard shot to the kidneys, staggering now against the ropes, we shall see what the media can dish out next to put the final nail in the coffin. It just goes to show you if you are not fit enough to play with the big countries don't go into the ring!!

Oz

People have been saying that for years, but Thailand soldiers on.

[Scott]

When flying in and out of Thailand I usually fly on Singapore Airlines and go to Singapore. For some reason I have never liked shopping at the airport in BKK. I usually pick up anything I need in Singapore. A habit which I will now make permanent.

[judgedredd]

WeeGB Noted “perhaps the first thing the Thai government should do is investigate this Sri Lankan chaps work permit. Why is a Sri Lankan involved in the Thai police / legal / translation system?”

You are assuming that the Sri Lankan fraudster has a work permit. You should not assume that. For example, I know a German fellow who has lived here in Thailand for nearly 14 years on back-to-back Non-Immigrant “B” visas, and he has never had a work permit. He speaks excellent Thai. He works here, informally, without a work permit. His best friends? A CSD cop and another cop in the Immigration Police. The German picks up most of his work in two ways: He is paid by German tourists who have run afoul of immigration, or other laws, and who need a German to Thai translator; secondly, he has a relationship with a Thai private investigator who gives him work. Most of the German’s job referrals, for any type of work, come from his Thai police friends. Lastly, this German fellow never earns anything from Thais, only from informal one-off assignments that the police arrange for him with German-speaking foreigners (German, Austria, Switzerland). The police of course will tell you that this is not “employment”, the German fellow is merely “helping” other foreigners.

It is entirely possible that the Sri Lankan is not formally employed by anyone nor formally protected by any embassy. There are so many grey area fraudsters and cons in this place…

In my experience, when a Thai police scam has foreign helpers or foreign associates, you can bet that it is a major, well-run scam, with deep roots. Of course, I would not insult the Thai Police by saying that they need smart foreign fraudsters to do their thinking for them…

Amazing Thailand.

Judge Dredd

[norwayeagle]

The biggest source of money for Thailand is tourism.

Not true - tourism only accounts for 6% of Thailand's economy.

Yes Thailand is a big "garden of Eden" Guess there are not many counties in the world who not get any "goodies" from Thai soil.

But never the Less,tourism give alot in return (good and Bad)!

[dbrenn]

When flying in and out of Thailand I usually fly on Singapore Airlines and go to Singapore. For some reason I have never liked shopping at the airport in BKK. I usually pick up anything I need in Singapore. A habit which I will now make permanent.

Agreed - Changi Airport is as good as it gets. Not sure why, but I never did any shopping at Bangkok Airport either.

Agreed with other posters here - the tolerence of touts at the airport has always been a disgrace. The experience of the UK couple takes it to a new level, assuming of course that they were telling the truth.

[JacknDanny]

Another loss ratcheted up for the country. This was extortion and kidnapping by any standards and Kate Dullard should be held to account personally. Problem for the couple in this is that many from the West look down at a man with an Asian wife. Some sort of clever reverse discrimination they have concocted over there. Get packing Kate as we want more from our embassy that you can give us.

Trouble is that Thais are like gambling addicts, they revel in the few tiny scam successes and don't take head of the massive losses when they occur. The country will lose a thousand times this amount with the bad publicity, but they will still marvel at their sucess at extracting that 8,000 pounds.

At least a good percentage of the Expat community have now seen this on Thai Visa. This means us, our families, any friends and subsequently any of their friends will verbally be warned off going into these places.... If they decide to come after this latest debacle.

KP and the Thai authorities will blame this on the foreigners (the Sri Lankan) make a song and dance and business as usual.

Suppose the TAT could always run a campaign to encourage more sex tourism. About the only thing they have left now they have shot their bold once more with the high end market. Well TAT, you get your bright young professional couples on hi incomes and this is what you do with them!!

Over 3,000 views already. If only we have seen this and only we take action that could be 3,000 customers lost.

I think many peoiple have a misunderstanding what an embassy or consulate can do for you. They are not the police and can only direct to the local authorities and assist with finding a lawyer.

Offers to contact the Thai authorities in this case were declined by the couple themselves.

It infuriates me when people make statements as though they are definitely true.

The first statement about embassies and consulates is WRONG.

The second statement about the couple declining is unclear, as according to THEIR story, they were only offered a lawyer.

If embassies were only able to do what you are suggesting, then Thai Visa would be a more powerful tool to anybody being arrested or threatened or kidnapped

[CRUNCHER]

This story starts when they were about to board the plane. There is a lot missing.

Did they go into KP?

Did they go into the section that had the alleged stolen property?

Did they pick it up to look at?

Did they in fact buy it?

Did they buy anything else?

Was the wallet in their possession when they were detained?

Who made the complaint to the security guards/police?

What was the eveidence? etc etc.

Why were this couple vicimized?

After the arrest the story is odd to say the least. The "sneaked" out of the hotel on 27th, went to the embassy, but did not want the Thai authorities contactd. Why? again Why?

They were not released for 3 (?) further days. What happened during this time? Where were they? Did they "sneak" back into the hotel?

I understand that usually embassies cannot do much for people arrested for crime and kept in police station/prison except get a local lawyer. However, when people are illegally detained in a hotel, have their passports confiscated and are blackmailed for huge sums of money there are thing the embassy can do.

I am not saying that this couple have not been set up and treated badly, but I think there is a lot more to this story than has come out so far.

Edited June 28, 2009 by CRUNCHER

[Kitsch22]

Wrong, sorry.

Embassies can and do provide shelter and refuge in times of great need. This was a kidnapping and the couple having been held by a gang that obviously had police involvement and maybe more took place with the bail hearing (we don't know this) probably made the right call in not getting involved with any more Thais.

It was the Embassy sending them back into this situation that caused the money to change hands. IMHO

I do not understand the rationale for these allegations of "kidnapping". Unless I have misunderstood, these people were charged with theft and then released on bail and while they were on bail approached the British Embassy but declined an offer for the British Embassy staff to make representations on their behalf to the Thai authorities. Can anybody point me to a credible factual report which contradicts any part of that analysis? The availability of a system of corrupt payments does not of itself convert a lawful arrest into an unlawful kidnapping.

Other than providing visits to nationals held in custody (not applicable here) and perhaps furnishing an introduction to a suitable lawyer, what precisely is it that the embassy staff are supposed to do?

Is it being suggested that the embassy should help defendants in pending criminal cases to skip bail? If so, would we be equally happy if the Thai Embassy in London helped its citizens in the same fashion to become fugitives from British justice?

[jackdanielsesq]

True statement - Harry's Bar is world class.

BR>Jack

Agreed - Changi Airport is as good as it gets

[midas]

The biggest source of money for Thailand is tourism.

Not true - tourism only accounts for 6% of Thailand's economy.

It’s not just tourism that is being damaged by these stories.

This and the recent one about the Australian woman who was charged for stealing the

bar mat in Phuket. But don’t forget also the high net worth individuals that have

lost their 1.5 million baht payments they made for the Thailand Elite Card –

who would have told their wealthy business associates you can’t trust the

Thai’s.

There seems to be just an endless stream of stories to create a very

negative image for this place.

[jayboy]

Time to bring Thaksin back - there is no discipline in Thailand anymore - from anyone.

BR>Jack

Thaksin bondage and discipline is not what Thailand needs.

These wouldn't be photographs of the Tak Bai incident in which a Thai court very recently ruled that army, police and government officials had done "nothing wrong."

Anyway there ought to be some prize for weird off topic obsessiveness.The quoted post would certainly win it.

Thaksin made some particularly callous and stupid remarks after Tak Bai, but a more interesting tack for the purposes of this thread would be his links with King Power which I believe were considerable.

[frodo]

If being held against one's will isn't a form of kidnapping, what is it?

[dbrenn]

The biggest source of money for Thailand is tourism.

Not true - tourism only accounts for 6% of Thailand's economy.

It's not just tourism that is being damaged by these stories.

This and the recent one about the Australian woman who was charged for stealing the

bar mat in Phuket. But don't forget also the high net worth individuals that have

lost their 1.5 million baht payments they made for the Thailand Elite Card –

who would have told their wealthy business associates you can't trust the

Thai's.

There seems to be just an endless stream of stories to create a very

negative image for this place.

Tourist scams are nothing new in Thailand. Never stopped people from going there, never will.

[Mobi]

Now I have no idea whatsoever if KP is involved in the scam reported in this thread, but given their past record, I wouldn't trust them with a dodgy bottle of red, let alone "doing the right thing" as far as unsuspecting tourists are concerned.

Edit: off topic remarks deleted. This thread is not about King Ping itself. - mario2008

Edited June 28, 2009 by Mario2008

[harrycallahan]

What would fix it would be if the departments of foreign affairs and travel of (regrettebly) the first world nations released tourist warnings about this activity.

I haven't been to Thailand for a few years and not sure I'd bother given what it seems to be becoming, but if you want to fix the place consider writing about this matter to you governments relevant department. They'd want some good evidence though, and if they're anything like Australia's then they'll be more concerned maintaining cordial diplomatic relations than protecting their citizens abroad.

[grandpops]

Bit of research.

Anybody oblige with some math! 200 reading now x 85 is a lot of people. Just for starters.

Now let's imagine you messed up. Here's what's going to happen to you, according to TARP:

• A disgruntled customer will share their bad experience with the average of 12 other people;
  
• Each of those 12 people will in turn mention it to 6 others
  

Let's do the math: We are talking about (1 person who has had bad experience) + (12 people that person has talked to) + (12 groups * 6 people they have contacted) = 85 people will no longer think very highly of your business or service just because of a little mess-up!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Word-of-Mouth-Go...&id=2416652

Regarding the apologists for the Embassy. It's about time they did make some Diplomatic Incidents out of these issues.

The prevailing feeling in Thailand is that is just a bunch of bad men oppressing poor thai women and the level of protection is accordingly down graded. If someone were to say Kate Dullard was crap at her job because she is a woman and should be replaced by a man it would be howled down and posts removed etc. Yet they are allowed to look down their noses at us plebs.

Its a sexist prevailing culture that would not be allowed in the other direction or against other religions or races.

It's a shoddy service at the British Embassy and it has not improved since the scandalous non existant level or service during the Tsunami.

EDIT. If a company with the connections of KP did not want police running scams on their premises this could not happen.

Edited June 28, 2009 by grandpops

[Kitsch22]

If being held against one's will isn't a form of kidnapping, what is it?

You have it the wrong way round. Kidnapping is a particular example of an individual being held against that individual's will. Detention in a police cell or a prison or a psychiatric hospital or (for that matter) a school may all be against the individual's will, but none of them amounts to kidnapping.

[RocketScientist]

Shocking how the British Embassy offered them jack sh*t in the way of help ?????

From the article:

"The Foreign Office said consular officials had offered to raise the case with the Thai authorities at the time but had been asked by the couple not to intervene."

NOT !!

However, on April 27 they sneaked out of the hotel and found their way to the embassy, where they met Kate Dufall, the pro-consul.

According to the couple, she told them the embassy could not interfere with the Thai legal system and put them in contact with Prachaya Vijitpokin, a lawyer.

This is what happened in Thailand when the couple arrived at the Thai Embassy after escaping the captors.

Definitely sounds like "Jack Schitt" to me.

The Foreign Office said consular officials had offered to raise the case with the Thai authorities at the time but had been asked by the couple not to intervene.

This happened at the "Foreign Office" in England, once the couple has found their way home. They obviously realized that this was more "Jack Schitt" because it would amount to nothing / solve nothing and in all likelihood nothing more than blowing smoke up their <deleted>.

[Mobi]

Andrew Drummond, whio many of you will know as a freelance journmaliust, based in Bangkok, wrote thgis today on his blog.

Clearly what happened is by no means a "one off" This is a serial scam.

"This is a blog only

She sat there clutching a plastic bag containing a lipstick along with a till receipt for 570 baht. Sian, from Kilkenny in Ireland saw her life ahead in a Bangkok jail and was clearly dumbstruck.

"I never intended to steal anything. I paid for the lipstick and later picked up some eyeliner worth about 900 Thai baht. This is all a terrible mistake."

Sian faces a year in jail……unless.

Friday 4 pm: I am at Ratchatewa Police station just off the perimeter road at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport to see 'Sian' who had been shopping at King Power, the massive consortium which has a virtual monopoly over tourist duty free sales there, when their security pounced.

I tell Sian (not her real name) I am a journalist. "Oh this is not going to make the papers is it? Please do not write anything". I put down my notebook and pen. I give Sian my telephone number and make my excuses and leave.

What I wanted to talk about, I could not say with the police officer present. The policeman, who I believe, thought that I had come to help the lady financially, asked why I was going so quickly.

Sian had a lawyer and has already got bail for 100,000 baht (about £1800) and has paid the lawyer a deposit of Bt 50,000 (£900). Her lawyer is recommended by the British Embassy.

Before her, laid out on the desk were colour stills printed on A4 taken from one of the thousands of CCTV cameras King Power have installed in their airport shops. Do they show she is guilty?I have no idea.

I cannot pursue this story unless she makes a complaint. To do so in Thailand could seriously jeopardise her future. She knows it. The lawyer knows it. The police know it, the courts know it. I know it. So I'm not expecting a call – at least not until she is safe back among the shamrocks.

Guilty or not guilty Sian is now embroiled in one of the infamous Bangkok scams. But this scam is just a variation of what happens in police stations all over the country. It's why paedophiles are repeated released. It's why when we read about arrests we rarely read about the outcome.

Sian does not want any publicity. She was in Bangkok for a 'Save the World' type conference.

She has been told she will have to wait at least a month to go to court. She could go to jail for a year. She is another candidate for 'Banged Up Abroad'.

The option which has been given to all those tourists from many countries,who have preceded her (several a week) is, of course, to pay up. Police will keep the bail and she will be required to pay a large payment for letters which will say that police can find no conclusive evidence of her guilt and allow her to leave the country.

This scam is probably netting millions of Thai baht a month. Legally I cannot say where the money is going. But the first 100,000 baht bail goes to police and is not returned and the rest goes through a 'fixer', often a Thai speaking foreign police volunteer. After the payments are made the victims receive a letter from the Prosecutor at Samut Prakarn Court saying a case has not been pursued through a lack of evidence.

If the prosecutor was to have been paid, and of course I cannot say that, then other officials at the court would normally be too.

Today Michael Sheridan, a colleague on the Sunday Times, exposes the case of Britons Stephen Ingram and Xi Lin. Sheridan identifies a Sri Lankan Sunil "Tony" Rathnayaka as the fixer who pays the cash out to a man known as 'Phua Yai Noi' – the little big man. 'Tony'admits taking the cash from the couple. He is only there to help, he says.

Ingram and Xi Lin were arrested and accused of stealing a Givenchy wallet worth over £120.

The threat was all the more severe because (a) they were charged with organised crime (there were two of them) and that ( the crime took place at night (when most European bound flights leave the airport) all adding to the severity of their case.

Guilty or not guilty King Power presented CCTV evidence as usual and claim, while they do prosecute severely, they do not prosecute without absolutely firm evidence. Nevertheless the video evidence is by far means conclusive and the couple were not caught with the wallet in their possession.

King Power say they cannot be held responsible for what happens in the police station. For sure they know how the system works but its unlikely any management are involved - no matter what we think of their prices!

In a written statement describing their ordeal Ingram and Xi Lin insist they were told that some of the cash would have to go back to King Power. But its only hearsay and police could just be upping the ante.

The couple were held virtually hostage for five days in a scummy pink motel while their cash was either ATM'ed here and transferred from the UK.

What stands out about Michael Sheridan's investigation is that we have here for once, not the receipts for the bribes, but the letters which they obtained which showed they were innocent and allowed them to leave the country albeit at a price of £8000.

The first letter (left) is from Ratchatewa Police to Immigration police saying the couple can leave the country as 'Attorney of Samutprakarn dropped the case as the truth was confirmed that the suspects had no intention to steal".

The second letter letter is from the Prosecution Office at Samut Parkarn which stated:"The prosecutor has dropped the case and let (the couple) go as they did not have evidence or witnesses to confirm the suspects are guilty"

On the strength of these letters alone they could sue for wrongful arrest!

Personally, even if I were innocent I might not take my chances against Samut Prakarn court. But one worrying aspect about Ingram and Xi Lin's testimony is a quote attributed to Kate Duffall at the British Embassy saying that people could be arrested inside King Power shops. Dufall has not confirmed her statement.

However it is not difficult to see there may be some over zealous staff being used here, particularly if they have to pay out of their wages for goods that are stolen. In most countries one has to leave the shop first before theft can be established.

Mr. Ingram and Xi Lin have now been recommended a lawyer whom they say has been known to the British Embassy for 15 years and they want to pursue a matter through the Thai courts.

As the lawyer appears to be the same lawyer who represented Simon Burrowes when he was arrested at Phuket airport earlier this year, I'm not holding my breath.

As Embassies may protest there may be an investigation. But I suspect Tony the Sri Lankan may be the only person to take the fall.

So there you have it. If you are rich enough to indulge yourself in any of the King Power outlets and that includes buying a coffee, be very very careful.

That eye-shadow or eye-liner could cost you up from £4000 - £10,000!

Finally just a reminder of another scam which has been widely reported. Arriving passengers who stop to buy stuff at King Power duty free which are over the maximum duty free limit, have reported that their purchases are tipped off to the 'Thai authorities'. They are later stopped, not in the Customs Hall, but as they exit the airport"

[jamesjdaly]

I for one will now boycott all duty free shops in Suwannashit.

[RocketScientist]

The Sri Lankan man, if he works for the Sri Lankan embassy, may not need a work permit. Nationals of a country working for the Embassy of their own country, are covered under different laws. There are bilateral agreements between countries that cover these matters. Most embassy staff (non-diplomatic) are given a non-immigrant visa, but no work permit.

Diplomatic Immunity or not, work permit and visa status notwithstanding, he is facilitating the corruption by receiving the wire transfer payoffs to his account and disbursing them to the unidentified "Little Big Man".

If these fines are legitimate, why are they not being transferred to a government agency directly?

Do ya think Little Big Man paid his income tax on this money?

[frodo]

If being held against one's will isn't a form of kidnapping, what is it?

You have it the wrong way round. Kidnapping is a particular example of an individual being held against that individual's will. Detention in a police cell or a prison or a psychiatric hospital or (for that matter) a school may all be against the individual's will, but none of them amounts to kidnapping.

According to what I read, a release order had been mandated by the prosecutor's office since there was no evidence whatsoever against them. They were then subsequently transferred to a hotel for five days, not a police station, while being threatened and held against their will and the statement to release them. That's not a detainment...it's kidnapping.

From the timesonlone: "In a detailed statement the couple said they were first detained at an airport office of the tourist police and later taken to cells at a police station in an isolated modern building on the fringes of the airport. Rathnayaka confirmed that he met them in the cells on the morning of Sunday, April 26, and arranged the “bail”. The police kept the couple’s passports. Rathnayaka then escorted Ingram and Xi to the Valentine Resort, a lurid pink motel a few hundred yards from the runways."

A release order mandated, no evidence. At that time release from the authorities should have happened. After that, containment is illegal since there are no grounds to hold them. "Bail" or rather extortion money was arranged by the Sri-Lankian Mafia guy. Though they were ordered released, they were not, but taken against their will to a hotel. Kidnapping. pure and simple.

Edited June 28, 2009 by frodo

[TheLaughingMan]

This is a regular occurence with King Power and therefore a regular scam perpetrated by them, its not slander when its blatantly true.

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Thu...icle/index_html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Rounds-Email...amp;pid=2626176

Thai police are nothing more than gangsters, if I read one more thread defending them my head will explode, in case that happens I would like to say goodbye now, just in case.

[TheLaughingMan]

Wrong, sorry.

Embassies can and do provide shelter and refuge in times of great need. This was a kidnapping and the couple having been held by a gang that obviously had police involvement and maybe more took place with the bail hearing (we don't know this) probably made the right call in not getting involved with any more Thais.

It was the Embassy sending them back into this situation that caused the money to change hands. IMHO

I do not understand the rationale for these allegations of "kidnapping". Unless I have misunderstood, these people were charged with theft and then released on bail and while they were on bail approached the British Embassy but declined an offer for the British Embassy staff to make representations on their behalf to the Thai authorities. Can anybody point me to a credible factual report which contradicts any part of that analysis? The availability of a system of corrupt payments does not of itself convert a lawful arrest into an unlawful kidnapping.

Other than providing visits to nationals held in custody (not applicable here) and perhaps furnishing an introduction to a suitable lawyer, what precisely is it that the embassy staff are supposed to do?

Is it being suggested that the embassy should help defendants in pending criminal cases to skip bail? If so, would we be equally happy if the Thai Embassy in London helped its citizens in the same fashion to become fugitives from British justice?

Yes you misunderstood. Read the initial post again, more slowly this time, its all right there.

[ozzieovaseas]

KEEP OUT OF THE DUTY FREE SHOPS. Then we wont be targets , unfortunately that will never happen, as there is always a tourist willing to pay higher than

street prices for what they buy. I would even go as far as saying some of the products are FAKE.

My own experiences of Buying from K-P eg, Marlborough Lights - NOTHING like what you can buy anywhere else and they remind me of the fakes you get at the borders such as Mae Sai . Smoking kills and a bad habit but those they sold to ME, surely would have helped me on my way to my coffin far sooner if I actually smoked more than 1 pkt. I actually put them in the bin. Thats how bad they were.

I would like to know who paid for the 5 days at the Hotel while the scam was running ? Who paid for the flight back to the UK after being forced from their original flight ? How did they come up with a large sum of money so quickly if detained at the hotel to pay them and possibly all the other expenses they incured ? Were they locked up in the hotel or have a security guard guarding them or were they really free to do what they wanted , including escape. The full story would be good.

I agree.

These questions are very relevant and the one thing i would add is to ask if these couple had mobiles??

Of course everyone has cell phones right?

So,this talk of being under arrest in a hotel!!??..guards watching there every moove!??..

I would think anyone in such a situation would be ringing anyone with an ear and a mobile as soon as the hotel door was slammed.

Like another poster mentioned..ring overseas friends to help fight from your own country,police at home,members of parliament...anyone and everyone

Even if the embassy doesnt care, then complaining about that embassy and everyone else involved to current affairs shows in your own country might be worth a shot and create a bit of public outrage.

Look at what was accomplished by bar-mat-mum...a few dough eyed blonde haired kids and bobs your uncle.

I cant believe they took all this so softly and had to resort to "sneaking out"

Even someone at the hotel could have even been bribed for extra help..for far less than what they paid