British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists

[ree2512]

They should have kept quiet about it! Even though its wrong Thailand can hurt you in many ways! I fear that there will be someone who can set them up now! I dont even think that they have any cameras in King power shop??? If you speak the language they wouldnt dare!!! seems like they are hitting the tourists because they dont understand much about thailand and how corrupt the police are! Bloody thieves!

[samran]

So 11 pages or 255 posts of 'outrage'. Classic Thai visa punter uselessness as always.

Why not direct some agro to Susan Whelan, Group Deputy Managing Director?

http://www.kingpower.com/2009/corporate_management.php

I mean, she is on linkedIn and everything. Not to hard to direct some of your outrage to her. If indeed this is a scam

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/susan-whelan/13/428/b15

[imaneggspurt]

So 11 pages or 255 posts of 'outrage'. Classic Thai visa punter uselessness as always.

Why not direct some agro to Susan Whelan, Group Deputy Managing Director?

http://www.kingpower.com/2009/corporate_management.php

I mean, she is on linkedIn and everything. Not to hard to direct some of your outrage to her. If indeed this is a scam

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/susan-whelan/13/428/b15

" If indeed this is a scam" ............so after 255 posts are you of the opinion it isnt ?. im just curious,.( and im not saying they are in on it, i have no idea or proof )

[samran]

So 11 pages or 255 posts of 'outrage'. Classic Thai visa punter uselessness as always.

Why not direct some agro to Susan Whelan, Group Deputy Managing Director?

http://www.kingpower.com/2009/corporate_management.php

I mean, she is on linkedIn and everything. Not to hard to direct some of your outrage to her. If indeed this is a scam

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/susan-whelan/13/428/b15

" If indeed this is a scam" ............so after 255 posts are you of the opinion it isnt ?. im just curious,.( and im not saying they are in on it, i have no idea or proof )

Sorry, meant to say 'systematic scam'.

OF course it is a scam, but if it was a rare even, there would be little I suspect, KP could do about it. But, if it is something that is happening reglarly - and given that I'm not keeping up with the news, it very well may be, then KP management ought to know? Or will the TV huff and puff crowd and not do anything about it.

[maimeepom]

Heard a story before about similar things happening to an asian tourist (a singaporean if I recall correctly) who alledgedly had an extra carton of cigarettes put in his/her shopping bag and assumed it was a gift or a promotion. Result: stamped out of Thailand with "Thief" in the passport.

Has anyone ever actually seen a passport with 'Thief' stamped in it? I've read this before and find it hard to believe.

I used to work in aviation. I must say I have never seen a passport inscribed with any such comment.

Any passport belongs to the issuing country, and only they can officialy add an endorsement.

However, in the past I have seen old style passports with comments added by customs authorities, regarding smuggling irregularities.

With the new style passports, all such information is held on computors.

[farseer]

Heard a story before about similar things happening to an asian tourist (a singaporean if I recall correctly) who alledgedly had an extra carton of cigarettes put in his/her shopping bag and assumed it was a gift or a promotion. Result: stamped out of Thailand with "Thief" in the passport.

Has anyone ever actually seen a passport with 'Thief' stamped in it? I've read this before and find it hard to believe.

I used to work in aviation. I must say I have never seen a passport inscribed with any such comment.

Any passport belongs to the issuing country, and only they can officialy add an endorsement.

However, in the past I have seen old style passports with comments added by customs authorities, regarding smuggling irregularities.

With the new style passports, all such information is held on computors.

I have to disagree as I have seen the Thai immigration write in passports that the holder is a convicted criminal, the charge and the punishment, plus whether the holder is banned from reentering Thailand or not. The Thai immigration do as they please, so you are completely wrong.

[balo]

I just tipped this story to the biggest Norwegian newspapers so they can warn all the Scandinavian tourists about this.

Another tragic story from Thailand and I'm sure a lot more tourists will find other destinations for their holiday this summer.

[theoldgit]

I have to disagree as I have seen the Thai immigration write in passports that the holder is a convicted criminal, the charge and the punishment, plus whether the holder is banned from reentering Thailand or not. The Thai immigration do as they please, so you are completely wrong.

And the UK Visa Section put a stamp in a Thai, or any other nationalities, passport when a visa is refused.

[Datsun240Z]

I remember getting a " triple entry"/ each 60 days tourist visa " in Amsterdam. Arriving at airport, the dude gave me a stamp of calculated later..54 days. That's not 60!. When eventually I ran to the border ( Cambodia ) I got a real full 60 day stamp. Gues the Immigration officer at Suvarnabhumi was in a bad mood.

About this topic: I guess the name " King Power Shop " says it al

Edited June 29, 2009 by Datsun240Z

[brahmburgers]

Although it happened at a King Power store, there is no involvement of King Power itself. Let's not suggest it is or call for boycotts etc.

What are you talking about? Of course King Power was involved. If some one is accused of stealing, only the owner of the stolen good can accuse or press charges and that was King Power.

And these lame excused "we cannot control what happens after" doesn't get them off the hook. They, King Power through it's employees started the whole thing. So clearly they are involved.

reminds me of the line near the end of Wizard of Oz;

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

[Mario2008]

(Mario2008 @ 2009-06-28 09:47:59)

Although it happened at a King Power store, there is no involvement of King Power itself. Let's not suggest it is or call for boycotts etc.

(dominique355 @ 2009-06-29 08:42:29)

What are you talking about? Of course King Power was involved. If some one is accused of stealing, only the owner of the stolen good can accuse or press charges and that was King Power.

And these lame excused "we cannot control what happens after" doesn't get them off the hook. They, King Power through it's employees started the whole thing. So clearly they are involved.

What it means is that there is a difference between individual employees operating a scam and the company itself operating a scam. Here the company itself is not scamming its costumers.

[Maestro]

Searching the Internet I found reference to other cases of alledged scams at airport shops earlier this year:

Are police involved in |airport shoplifting scam?

Published on April 30, 2009

An Indian traveller was detained in Bangkok for stealing a box of cigarettes from a duty-free shop at Bangkok International Airport,

He had paid for chocolates and a carton of cigarettes. The cashier put a packet of cigarettes into his bag and he thought it was a free pack. He was arrested for shoplifting and the Thai police extortion price was Bt30,000 for his release. He spent two nights in jail and paid Bt500 for an air-conditioned cell, Bt200-300 for each visitor, and Bt11,000 for his final release. The police shared the money in front of his eyes. On top of that, he was charged in court and fined Bt2,000 by the magistrate and handcuffed and escorted to his plane. His passport was stamped "Thief". While in jail, his relatives requested help from the Indian Embassy but were told the embassy was unable to assist.

The man shared a cell with a Singaporean on the first night, who paid Bt60,000 for his release. On the second night there was a Malaysian national who paid Bt70,000. Many Asians are victimised similarly daily, and letters and phone calls to the Thai authorities are ignored. This was not in a shop in downtown Bangkok but in a duty-free shop at Bangkok's international airport. Be warned.

J NIRMAL KUMAR

BANGKOK

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

Are only Asians targeted |in shoplifting scams?

Ref: Are police involved in airport shoplifting scam? Letters, April 30

I echo the voice of J Nirmal Kumar's letter. Recently a young student from an Asian nation was in transit to the US via Bangkok, and at the airport's King Power duty-free shop he was accused of shoplifting. He was then handed over to the police, who later made him sign documents in Thai and took him to the police station.

Later one South Asian man claiming to be a Thai police officer demanded Bt300,000 from him and even made a long-distance phone call to his parents demanding the money. The guy claiming to be a Thai policeman later turned out to be a volunteer appointed by the police to help the tourist. Anyway, the student's family sent money, and he had to pay a huge amount for his release. After a few days in police custody, his passport was stamped with a few words in Thai.

His embassy was also helpless and could do nothing. It seems as if there is nexus of duty-free staff, police and the rescue or tourist volunteers who work in unison to trap innocent travellers. The majority of the cases seem to be South Asians, followed by Chinese.

The problem starts when duty-free staff immediately hand the accused person over to the police, and some volunteers working inside the airport also play a role in trapping travellers by speaking English and appearing to be helpful.

As far as we know, there are more than two or three such incidents every day, and each of these goes unnoticed. Most of the victims are from Asian countries, so the police just do not care.

This racket must be busted. The mafia of duty-free staff, police and so-called tourist volunteers needs to be handled immediately.

JOHN BIGS

BANGKOK

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

The British gentleman, Stephen Ingram, seems to have the right attitude when he says he wants to fight this in court, for the protection of other tourists, as apparently so far none of the other victims has done so.

--

Maestro

[Mario2008]

1 off topic comment deleted. This topic is not about the prices at King Power.

[Maestro]

Some members posting in this topic have noted the absence in the news of any comment from the management of King Power. The British news article cites an unnamed spokesman of the company as having said that the company had strict rules for evidence to be submitted to the police in shoplifting cases, but added: “We cannot control what happens after that.” In the case of Mr. Ingram, however, and possibly also in some earlier cases the court wrote in its decision that there was no evidence of shoplifting. I see a contradiction here and think it would be good to see some investigative journalism by a Thai newspaper, but this is perhaps expecting too much.

--

Maestro

[NewInvestor]

Several posts mention the possibility of using the security camera recording to prove innocence. Unfortunately, that recording belongs to the private company and they may be able to refuse access for policy reasons.

I have heard of cases where the private company refused to show the recording to the guests or any non-employees for "policy" reasons. In such cases, you may need to file a police report in order for any non-employee to get access to view the recording or get a copy. I would like to hear others' experiences with this.

And what if the company says the camera wasn't working at the time? Whoever controls the cameras may be on their side, and maybe they can report that the camera was not operating at the time. Who knows.

Of course, if they also don't have video recording of the person stealing, then they need another method to prove theft.

It is difficult for any large organization with such a large number of staff to guarantee that there aren't any bad staff who try to steal from a customer or commit a much larger crime such as cooperating with an extortion gang, and I can sympathize with the company as regards the disasterous P.R. potential and would be cooperative with the company to resolve such a case privately, not in public ...

... if this were not something that had been REPEATEDLY going on and REPORTED for a LONG TIME, and if the company deals with the problem in a moral way, such as firing the staff who stole and anyone else apparently complicit, and dealing with any greater situation righteously. Especially when it greatly disrupts peoples' lives.

However, in a case like this, how can you actually force anyone to show any video recording which would exonerate you and possibly identify any particular staff who may be guilty? And before any camera recording gets deleted?

Edited June 29, 2009 by NewInvestor

[hughben]

What would you do if this happened to you?

As posted earlier on, the option of crossing the border to another country and going to your consulate would sound feasible.

I just wouldn't trust any officials in Bangkok if I was in that scenario.

[Maestro]

…OF course it is a scam, but if it was a rare even, there would be little I suspect, KP could do about it. But, if it is something that is happening reglarly - and given that I'm not keeping up with the news, it very well may be, then KP management ought to know? Or will the TV huff and puff crowd and not do anything about it.

Samran has a point there. For a member to post here that because of the article in the Sunday Times he will in future be disinclined to shop at the King Power duty-free shop at the airport so as to avoid running a similar risk is one thing, but to make that directly known to the company's management would be much more effective, wouldn’t it?

I don’t know what role the Group Deputy Managing Director mentioned by Samran plays in that mammoth organisation so if you want to make sure your voice gets heard you may write directly to the CEO. King Power has a web page and on it a link “Contacts” with an email address for customer support or something like that. Just make sure you are sober when you write, be objective and polite, make no accusations, threats or libellous statements, and precede your message with a note that it is for the personal attention of the CEO. Give a link to the article in the Sunday Times and The Nation. Who knows, you may even get an answer but don’t hold your breath. Sometimes in a large company, the underlings shield the CEO from bad news and he may even be grateful for being alerted to those negative news articles about his company.

--

Maestro

[CRUNCHER]

I agree that there is not one shred of evidence that King Power as a company are involved in these scams, but it is obvious that their staff are. By now they must have knowledge of this involvement. One would expect that a company that depends on tourists for their profit would be a bit more proactive in addressing this problem. Their laid back attitude, i.e. what happens after the victims are handed over is beyond their control, is, to say the least, a little disappointing.

[samran]

…OF course it is a scam, but if it was a rare even, there would be little I suspect, KP could do about it. But, if it is something that is happening reglarly - and given that I'm not keeping up with the news, it very well may be, then KP management ought to know? Or will the TV huff and puff crowd and not do anything about it.

Samran has a point there. For a member to post here that because of the article in the Sunday Times he will in future be disinclined to shop at the King Power duty-free shop at the airport so as to avoid running a similar risk is one thing, but to make that directly know to the company's management would be much more effective, wouldn’t it?

I don’t know what role the Group Deputy Managing Director mentioned by Samran plays in that mammoth organisation so if you want to make sure your voice gets heard you may write directly to the CEO. King Power has a web page and on it a link “Contacts” with an email address for customer support or something like that. Just make sure you are sober when you write, be objective and polite, make no accusations, threats or libellous statements, and precede your message with a note that it is for the personal attention of the CEO. Give a link to the article in the Sunday Times and The Nation. Who knows, you may even get an answer but don’t hold your breath. Sometimes in a large company, the underlings shield the CEO from bad news and he may even be grateful for being alerted to those negative news articles about his company.

--

Maestro

Great idea Maestro,

To be honest, I only thought of the group dep. managaing director as she is a farang and probably most easist for the TV readership to relate to. But yes, going straight to the top might just work too!

Edited June 29, 2009 by samran

[Briggsy]

What would you do if this happened to you?

As posted earlier on, the option of crossing the border to another country and going to your consulate would sound feasible.

I just wouldn't trust any officials in Bangkok if I was in that scenario.

See my post no. 250.

If you played it by the book, you would have to wait for a bail hearing in a prison cell with 40 other people and one filthy toilet (perhaps one week), hope that the judge saw fit to grant you bail (certainly not guaranteed), and then have the bail money (perhaps 100,000 Baht, perhaps double that). This would be before you could even be able to get across the border. Easier said than done.

The bail money would be lost for sure.

I think you see how they make it so you have no choice but to pay the exorbitant bribe.

Your best hope is the British press. But expect to spend a few weeks locked up before it appears in the British papers.

[Maestro]

…But yes, going straight to the top might just work too!

It’s all in the spirit of doing unto others what you would have others do unto you. Any ThaiVisa member who is or has ever been a business owner or manger would agree that he prefers that a dissatisfied or concerned customer talk to him rather than call for a boycott of his business behind his back.

--

Maestro

[animatic]

I go through Swampy 10 or so times a year.

King Power counters will now be avoided.

The only thing to put a stop to this abuse will be putting a dent in K.P.s profits enough so that K.P.

will be motivated enough to use the video cameras they have and stop it themselves.

[catmac]

IMAGINE YOU WERE ARRESTED IN THAILAND FOR A CRIME YOU DID NOT COMMIT

You can be held in prison on remand in Thailand for 84 days WITHOUT BEING CHARGED.

After being charged, you can, as a foreigner and therefore a flight risk, be refused bail and held for months in prison waiting for your trial.

If bail is allowed, the amount of bail money will often be punitively high. Passports can and are often confiscated as a further deterrent to flight.

Bail money is often not returned.

A trial in Thailand can take years and during this time you can be held in custody.

Prison conditions in Thailand, even for remand prisoners, are appalling.

If you are brave enough to plead 'not guilty' and are lucky enough to have a fair trial that is not fixed against you, you would be released and finally allowed to go home. Nobody would say sorry for your 2 or so years' of incarceration.

You would not receive any compensation for your imprisonment, loss of earnings, health problems, losses in your home country (missed mortgage payments etc.) and missed flights.

You would be re-arrested for overstay. You would be again held in detention until you could find the 20,000 Baht overstay fine plus the cost of a flight.

If you were facing this, would you be brave enough to stick to your guns or would you just empty your savings account back home so you could get the hel_l out of there. How much is months or years in a Thai prison worth to avoid?

Says it all, Briggsy! I'm so tired of reading posts from people who obviously don't have the faintest idea of the reality of falling foul of the police in LOScams. This is not the West, where a person's rights are safeguarded, and procedures re bail and custody are clearly laid out and strictly adhered to. This is scumland, where you can be treated as a piece of sh*t, and nobody in authority could care less.

The Thai police report directly to the Prime Minister, so maybe Abhisit could be asked what he thinks about this. Or is he too gutless to do anything that might upset the BIBs?

[bamboobob]

As I travel via bangkok airport on many occasions and so do all of us in the travel business I shall be passing on the message ' DO NOT ENTER KINGPOWER' just another thailand Scam ! and they wounder why no on want to travel there any more , Land of Smiles my arse !!

[ree2512]

They should have kept quiet about it! Even though its wrong Thailand can hurt you in many ways! I fear that there will be someone who can set them up now! I dont even think that they have any cameras in King power shop??? If you speak the language they wouldnt dare!!! seems like they are hitting the tourists because they dont understand much about thailand and how corrupt the police are! Bloody thieves!

That is a ridiculous statement

Why should they take it on the chin ?

And how can " Thailand hurt you in many ways " if you dont set foot in the place

as i am sure many potential tourists will do now as a result of this publicity ?

if they are going to court then they will have to come here to testify! how is it rediculous it is well known that thai police have their own ways of getting their own way the couple probably wont make it to a hotel from the airport thats just how things work here. im not saying its right but 400000 baht as oppose to waiting for 10 years for a trail (in jail) and having problems with the thai police sounds good to me!!!

[Bagwan]

Excerpt from the King Power website.

"King of Duty Free"

Now that you have arrived here, kindly note that your Amazing Shopping Experience is about to begin. King Power International, the leader in the world of duty free and tax free, offers you the best services.

A ‘shopping experience’ that most could do without. How about an expression does not rely on fanciful BS – a shopping nightmare?

[Kitsch22]

"after a frightening ordeal in which they said they were threatened and held against their will at a cheap motel on the airport perimeter until they had handed over the money."

Enough with the bullshit that they were not kidnapped.

How many years do you think Bernie Madoff is going to be kidnapped for later today?

The law in most countries, I presume Thailand too, is very clear what constitutes lawful and unlawful imprisonment. The police have very defined amounts of time that they can hold someone in custody before charges are placed before a court, at which point the court decides on the matter and length of imprisonment based on laws and legal guidelines prior to the trial and, obviously the same again if the person is found guilty at trial.

Madoff will be imprisoned legally, since he's already pled guilty.

This couple, if they were detained, or felt sufficiently threatened that they were effectively detained against their will, would constitute unlawful imprisonment. Otherwise known as kidnapping.

Just because there wasn't a guard on them 24 hours doesn't stop it being kidnapping. Many people have been kidnapped and not guarded by being told that if they leave the kidnapper will go to kill their parents or spouse. If they were told that if they leave the motel they'll go back to a prison cell, possibly for years, then that constitutes kidnapping regardless of whether an armed guard was actually at the their motel door and windows 24 hours a day.

Leaving aside for one moment the ludicrous suggestion that "unlawful imprisonment" (more usually referred to as "false imprisonment") is synonymous with "kidnapping", what criteria do you use to determine in any particular case whether an arrest and (brief) detention by the Thai police is unlawful? Would you apply exactly the same criteria and terminology in the case of persons accused (even if falsely accused) of shoplifting in UK? If not, why not? Do you think that Thai visitors to UK if arrested on an allegation of shoplifting are better off or worse off by reason of the fact that they cannot buy themselves out of trouble and ensure an early return home? How much bail do you think that they might have to put up in order to secure a release from custody and the return of their passports? [Hint: it is highly likely that they would be held in custody until their case was disposed of if, as in this case,they were detained on the point of leaving the country]

Please be clear: I am not seeking to condone what is obviously a scam. I am merely suggesting that it is unhelpful to attach to the scam labels which are obviously inappropriate.

[Theyreallrubbish]

"after a frightening ordeal in which they said they were threatened and held against their will at a cheap motel on the airport perimeter until they had handed over the money."

Enough with the bullshit that they were not kidnapped.

How many years do you think Bernie Madoff is going to be kidnapped for later today?

The law in most countries, I presume Thailand too, is very clear what constitutes lawful and unlawful imprisonment. The police have very defined amounts of time that they can hold someone in custody before charges are placed before a court, at which point the court decides on the matter and length of imprisonment based on laws and legal guidelines prior to the trial and, obviously the same again if the person is found guilty at trial.

Madoff will be imprisoned legally, since he's already pled guilty.

This couple, if they were detained, or felt sufficiently threatened that they were effectively detained against their will, would constitute unlawful imprisonment. Otherwise known as kidnapping.

Just because there wasn't a guard on them 24 hours doesn't stop it being kidnapping. Many people have been kidnapped and not guarded by being told that if they leave the kidnapper will go to kill their parents or spouse. If they were told that if they leave the motel they'll go back to a prison cell, possibly for years, then that constitutes kidnapping regardless of whether an armed guard was actually at the their motel door and windows 24 hours a day.

Leaving aside for one moment the ludicrous suggestion that "unlawful imprisonment" (more usually referred to as "false imprisonment") is synonymous with "kidnapping", what criteria do you use to determine in any particular case whether an arrest and (brief) detention by the Thai police is unlawful? Would you apply exactly the same criteria and terminology in the case of persons accused (even if falsely accused) of shoplifting in UK? If not, why not? Do you think that Thai visitors to UK if arrested on an allegation of shoplifting are better off or worse off by reason of the fact that they cannot buy themselves out of trouble and ensure an early return home? How much bail do you think that they might have to put up in order to secure a release from custody and the return of their passports? [Hint: it is highly likely that they would be held in custody until their case was disposed of if, as in this case,they were detained on the point of leaving the country]

Please be clear: I am not seeking to condone what is obviously a scam. I am merely suggesting that it is unhelpful to attach to the scam labels which are obviously inappropriate.

Someone detained by the police in the UK could be held lawfully for the period of time prescribed by the law. If a magistrate or judge rules that they be held longer, that would also be lawful imprisonment.

If the UK police moved the shoplifters to a hotel and told them that if they leave the hotel without paying them money they would throw them back in jail for a long time, I would consider that unlawful imprisonment.

What would you call it?

[Datsun240Z]

NOT SUITED FOR DEMOCRACY, I'D CALL IT.

[Rinrada]

Made it into the Times so thats another half million Rich (Times readers..wot i say )Tourists that Thailand and the Land of the Scams has now successfully alienated

...and have to wonder ...did/do they also realise that you gotta contribute £3 quid to take out yer dosh from the GBs atms before ye can even spend it.......defies belief.........but ye Gorra Laugh otherwise....... ...joke innit

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...amp;attr=797093