What's Wrong With Thaivisa.com And Many Of Its Forumers?

[barky]

The main reason I have stayed on in Thailand is financial. As I have been here for so long now it is becoming increasingly more difficult to move back to my home country. If I could enjoy the same life stlye again I would move back to my home country tomorrow so I grin and bear it here. While I have been here I haven't been idle, I've built up a nice little, secure (as much as a yearly visa will allow) lifestyle. Been here for almost 9 years, married to a Thai, have loving Thai family (wife's relatives) have various properties and other assets, good job, pay taxes, abide by the law, and not follow the poor example of law-breaking and corruption set by many of the locals.

However at the end of the day, from the Thai community at large, I still feel inwardly exposed, insecure, un-wanted, treated with indifference, alienated, sometimes physically threatened, discriminated against, ignored, seen as an entity to be taken advantage of and treated disrespecfully, and distrusted, etc.

Even when I am a bonafide or potential customer with money to spend I occasionally get the feeling that they couldn't care less either way.

Being a white skinned westener, I often believe I am singled out and treated in a racist xenophobic fashion by most of the locals I come in contact with. (And no I'm not paranoid).

In the main I allow much of this to pass "water off a ducks back" etc .

My way of coping and surviving is to minimise my dealings with Thais as much as possible.

And then to top that off the best I can do is get a one year visa, can't do this, can't do that. I am restricted in so many things and in so many ways particularly when it comes to business, banking, finance and credit, accounts, property, work, permanent residency, the virtual impossibility of citizenship etc. I often feel why do I bother.

I might compare this with Thais who chose to live in my home country where they are given every opportunity and encouragement to become part of the community and treated both socially and legally like a local.

I don't care if people agree or disagree with me as it is how I feel. It is MY perception.

[mellow1]

The main reason I have stayed on in Thailand is financial. As I have been here for so long now it is becoming increasingly more difficult to move back to my home country. If I could enjoy the same life stlye again I would move back to my home country tomorrow so I grin and bear it here. While I have been here I haven't been idle, I've built up a nice little, secure (as much as a yearly visa will allow) lifestyle. Been here for almost 9 years, married to a Thai, have loving Thai family (wife's relatives) have various properties and other assets, good job, pay taxes, abide by the law, and not follow the poor example of law-breaking and corruption set by many of the locals.

However at the end of the day, from the Thai community at large, I still feel inwardly exposed, insecure, un-wanted, treated with indifference, alienated, sometimes physically threatened, discriminated against, ignored, seen as an entity to be taken advantage of and treated disrespecfully, and distrusted, etc.

Even when I am a bonafide or potential customer with money to spend I occasionally get the feeling that they couldn't care less either way.

Being a white skinned westener, I often believe I am singled out and treated in a racist xenophobic fashion by most of the locals I come in contact with. (And no I'm not paranoid).

In the main I allow much of this to pass "water off a ducks back" etc .

My way of coping and surviving is to minimise my dealings with Thais as much as possible.

And then to top that off the best I can do is get a one year visa, can't do this, can't do that. I am restricted in so many things and in so many ways particularly when it comes to business, banking, finance and credit, accounts, property, work, permanent residency, the virtual impossibility of citizenship etc. I often feel why do I bother.

I might compare this with Thais who chose to live in my home country where they are given every opportunity and encouragement to become part of the community and treated both socially and legally like a local.

I don't care if people agree or disagree with me as it is how I feel. It is MY perception.

These are some of the issues which Thais need to respond to. Not be shocked by some peoples points of view, or how they express themselves. Come on all you Thais out there, answer or comment on this excellent post.

[tuky]

To all those who complain, and yet remain in the country, I would throw out two points you should consider. The first is, the Thais really don't care what you think. I see so many complaints that the Thais are backward, this country would be so much better if they'd only do such and such this way, and the Thais are really stupid because they are throwing away an opportunity to gain your valuable tourist money. The fact is the Thais are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. They just don't care.

From my personal observations and feelings I think the above quote may well be why many people (myself included) do come here to vent.

Where else can we? The Thais don't care, so no point in venting our frustrations with our other halves or friends, I am guessing other farangs have a similar upbringing as myself where are taught to speak our minds and question the things around us.

If we cannot speak our minds in our house/amongst friends in Thailand then where else can we do it? thaivisa.com, thats where.

Again, like myself I am sure 90% of those who complain and ridicule here on tv don't really believe what they are saying, they are just getting it off their chests enabling them to go on another day without causing hurt or (not physical) injury to their partner.

[Livinginexile]

It's difficult not to reply harshly to posts start with the usual...

"Hi there, I am getting married to my 35yr old T/G next week and I am suprised that I only need to pay 1 million baht sin sot...."

or something like...

"It is part of Thai culture that the husband of the daughter has to send 20k"bht per/mth to her family...

Perhaps the author of this rant is someone that got a good bollocking on TV

[Tod Daniels]

In my humble opinion, that piece was way too well written to come from a thai national, even a thai born in a first world country with the benefits of a first world education.

I do proofreading and language mistake correction part-time. I continually get emails, letters, and sundry correspondence from very highly educated and highly placed thais who couldn't string a cohesive sentence together in engrish if they tried, and believe me they do try.

As for thais taking criticism; they just don't take criticism at all, in any way shape or form. Yet to try to pawn it off as an alleged cultural phenomena or something like the mythical catch all of thai-ness; kreng-jai (เกรงใจ) is plain unadulterated b/s.

I also think the number of thai nationals who can read ANY post on this forum yet understand the sarcasm, cynicism, and tongue in cheek comments could probably be counted on both hands with fingers left over. The ability to understand the subtle nuances of english is NOT something you can buy even with a degree in engrish from Chula.

This is an extremely xenophobic country with an inherent distrust of foreigners, and all things foreign. It is racist to the extreme (even more so against its own citizens) based solely on skin tone, education level, thai language accent and one’s perceived standing in society. That isn’t going to change in my or my children’s lifetimes.

While I do agree many foreigners (myself included) have views about thailand which could be perceived as negative; I think more times than not it’s more pessimistic, or realistic than an outright negative view. As was said by previous posters, at times the realism, pessimism, and cynicism is a well deserved outlook on all thing whacky and wonderful in the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”.

I am no fan of foreign “sock-puppets” in their color coordinated shirt and snazzy matching rubber bracelet, embracing everything here with a mindlessness which often times sickens me. They are more often than not the ones who have their tattooed, pierced, and gold encrusted (in)significant other also know as their “thai in tow”.

People the world over are different. I accept that difference without having to by into any of it. I treat thais the same way they treat me. It seems to be equal parts of contempt and tolerance; something I call contemptuous tolerance. Yet it works out fine for both of us.

Oh BTW: I may bitch, piss and moan about what I see as perceived shortcomings of this country, but I still live here by choice not chance.

[jackdanielsesq]

A high percentage of OP + replies are personal, emotional raves. Period. Most do not offer any how-to, dont

contribute any logical suggestions, let alone solutions. It is symptomatic of illogical training, thinking. A Soap.

Pure emotion, not passion.

SPAM.

BR>Jack

[bonobo]

Thai or foreign-born, there were some good points brought up.

However, there is also another shade of grey.  I personally like Thailand, and I am glad I live here.  There are many, manya spects of living here that I find very satisfying.

However, I have posted on TV derogatory remarks about the mundane (lack of a good burger), the frustrating (Bangkok traffic), and the counterproductive (laws on limiting home ownership, regulations which discourage business and tourism.)

Just because I love it here does not mean I am going to put on Thai-colored glasses and see everything as hunky-dory. The good far outweighs the bad, but I am not going to smile when I see a dead motorcyle driver who was going the wrong way down the road and through a red light, or when a traffic cop sees me and decideds I rate a 2,000 baht ticket for some unspecified transgression (or driving while farang).

Having said that, some people are so negative that I too, wonder why they don't pack up their bags and leave.  And if they do leave, then why stick around TV?

[allcladrad]

I find it easy to agree with what the OP wrote, I see it almost every time I read the forum posts. My take is different than the OP's, however.

I believe that those that complain and offer and build on misinformation would do so, on the internet, where ever they were. They strike out at their fellow foreign posters just as often as they do at anything Thai. That the OP is Thai sensitizes him/her to Thai directed criticism and he/she might not see the bashing of other nationalities that is present here in the forum.

The internet creates a vehicle that allows self expression while also offering anonymity. Some feel that they have license to write whatever they wish while pushing decorum and civility aside, thinking they are safe hiding behind a screen name. Here what often happens is, those who practice bashing and spreading misinformation are identified and either ignored or attacked themselves; pretty much like they were in the face to face world.

[babuhavas]

wow op,you realy have so much free time?

[cpofc]

The main reason I have stayed on in Thailand is financial. As I have been here for so long now it is becoming increasingly more difficult to move back to my home country. If I could enjoy the same life stlye again I would move back to my home country tomorrow so I grin and bear it here. While I have been here I haven't been idle, I've built up a nice little, secure (as much as a yearly visa will allow) lifestyle. Been here for almost 9 years, married to a Thai, have loving Thai family (wife's relatives) have various properties and other assets, good job, pay taxes, abide by the law, and not follow the poor example of law-breaking and corruption set by many of the locals.

However at the end of the day, from the Thai community at large, I still feel inwardly exposed, insecure, un-wanted, treated with indifference, alienated, sometimes physically threatened, discriminated against, ignored, seen as an entity to be taken advantage of and treated disrespecfully, and distrusted, etc.

Even when I am a bonafide or potential customer with money to spend I occasionally get the feeling that they couldn't care less either way.

Being a white skinned westener, I often believe I am singled out and treated in a racist xenophobic fashion by most of the locals I come in contact with. (And no I'm not paranoid).

In the main I allow much of this to pass "water off a ducks back" etc .

My way of coping and surviving is to minimise my dealings with Thais as much as possible.

And then to top that off the best I can do is get a one year visa, can't do this, can't do that. I am restricted in so many things and in so many ways particularly when it comes to business, banking, finance and credit, accounts, property, work, permanent residency, the virtual impossibility of citizenship etc. I often feel why do I bother.

I might compare this with Thais who chose to live in my home country where they are given every opportunity and encouragement to become part of the community and treated both socially and legally like a local.

I don't care if people agree or disagree with me as it is how I feel. It is MY perception.

This. in fact, is a very good post! Fortunately, I am self sufficient, and although not a rich farang I live ok, if not modestly, the only difference between myself and the Thai Socio Economic Group I live amongst, is that I don't have to work. That combined with the fact of where I live I don;t need to won a motor vehicle!

I can understand how you feel, and your perceptions. I, like yourself am illiterate. In a Thai sense. Imagine what it must be like to be illiterate in your country of birth!!!

Unlike you, I have very little contact at all with farangs. Normally just visits from mates from Australia. Although I am 'illiterate' and my knowledge of the spoken language, given my experince with the country, is appalling, I try to be as 'Thai' as I am able to be.

In my country Australian never cease whinging about the asians (and others) unwillingness to integrate into OUR society. It is a constant complaint.

I decided that if I was going to live here and maintain my sanity I was going to have to form friendships with thais, with thais other than Bar Girls and pimps and the likes. I has to have Thai mates like I have mates at home. Not based on money either, But repsect and trust. I was going to integrate or bust!

Everyday is an adventure. Its a challenge. Alot of it is probably in your own mind. use the power of your mind to look at life in a more positive way. Try to be 'thai' as much as you can, think good, speak good, do good. Sorry about the preaching, but it the best advice I have without experiencing where you live.

Get involved in the community. Meet everyday with a happy smiling face if you can. Above all learn to have fun. The thais love it when you join in an just have fun like they do. Learn a few good well known songs you can impress them with next time they have a drunken karaoke session

Good luck mate, stay positive - 65,000,000 thais do not collectively hate us.

BTW - I crossed the rubicon too. I have little chance of being able to return to Aust now too. Therefore all the more reason to integrate.

[PeaceBlondie]

Shirley, some of our posters sometimes say a few negative things; of coarse But almost daily now, you'll see us posting and enforcing the following two forum rules:

"7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

Don't forget rule 7) either. Thanks.

[neverdie]

As for Thai Visa itself I find it run by a bunch of Nazi like mods that if you disagree with them they will ban you. So watch your step. lol

and just to grant you the wish of MODs who are dictator-like, Im giving the poster a warning, and making it public knowledge, so that anyone who wants to follow in his step can be forewarned.

discussing moderation on a public thread is against forum rules.

if you have issues with specific or generic moderation action, you are more than welcome to contact the administrators of the site. you can do this by emailing:

support[at]thaivisa.com

replace [at] with @

I know every moderator give each poster a lot of levy before issuing a warning. I normally do too. but having said that, Im always happy to oblige and apply the rules strictly to those posters that seem to want moderators to be strict.

well, today Im your genie. wish granted

How bout a little attachment with some genie music.....just to get us all in the mood.

[Harcourt]

Well said Submaniac. I can empathise.

[neverdie]

I love Thailand .

I think its very very unlikely that most thais are even aware that thaivisa exists.

I think, its very very unlikely that those that do know it exists, care about what is written here, especially so as most of the information here is written by the lower form of human in thailand ->>>>>> The Farang.

To examine the content of the massive WWW and to allow its contents to unsettle you or upset you, well , what can i say......errr, either get a life or reeeelaaaaxxx!

Seriously, remember the old saying; "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can NEVER hurt me". Perhaps someone could provide me with some type of translation.

I love Thailand .

[oldsparrow]

It seems to me that for many posting complain on TV is one good way to avoid strong sun before the bar get lively...

As a Thai, my perceptions are:

1. Only few posters want to learn something

2. For many expat, living in Thailand makes they feel like a better persons. Just like my early post. People under average national standard use his nation's standard to judge other while people above standard use his personal quality. It's really FUNNY to see people from advanced countires love to refer to their home standard because I have doubt on his DISTRIBUTION to his home nation.

3. Some are dangerously silly, especially those who say they can buy this and that. Sound like compensation for failure in real life achievement. Dangerous because certain attitude invite conflict with the local especially in the drinking place.

Yes, negative perception from reading TV post Because I have met nicers foreigners (especially westerners) from short my experiences in foreign countries and working with foreigners in Thailand.

[anothertorres]

the internet is a horrible place for a discussion. even worse for character judgement.

[oldsparrow]

About critic on TL,

If you read Thai please visit Thai web and Thai forums. You will find that many Thais critic TL a lot and are also very unhappy with the corruption and ^%(#^( THe truth that the $&)#@^($ still exist in TL causes tension and conflict among the Thais as you all see. But there is extra frustration when the foreigners critic us because:

1. What the hello is their business, they can choose to leave and don't have to share all the good and the bad.

2. Hey, I am a Thai but I can not responsible for those ($^(#@^$ Thais.

[Birdman]

Thai or foreign-born, there were some good points brought up.

However, there is also another shade of grey.  I personally like Thailand, and I am glad I live here.  There are many, manya spects of living here that I find very satisfying.

However, I have posted on TV derogatory remarks about the mundane (lack of a good burger), the frustrating (Bangkok traffic), and the counterproductive (laws on limiting home ownership, regulations which discourage business and tourism.)

Just because I love it here does not mean I am going to put on Thai-colored glasses and see everything as hunky-dory. The good far outweighs the bad, but I am not going to smile when I see a dead motorcyle driver who was going the wrong way down the road and through a red light, or when a traffic cop sees me and decideds I rate a 2,000 baht ticket for some unspecified transgression (or driving while farang).

Having said that, some people are so negative that I too, wonder why they don't pack up their bags and leave.  And if they do leave, then why stick around TV?

That poster did not mean people like you. He means people, who hate it here and can't stand anything Thais do.

I can't understand this people too. OK, some are not here entirely on their free will. Their shortcomings back home forced them to that bitter compromise. They prefer their daily tense efforts here to their loneliness or/and rather poor lifes in the West.

Many evenings they sit together and moan about what Thais did wrong that day, while their bought wives sit together on another table and laugh about them

They should realise their situation and look for positive aspects. Otherwise they will be unhappy forever.

[norwayeagle]

There are people in many "communities" like in here, who would do the human race (++)a big favor moving in to some jungle,and stay there. oops ( guess that would be cruelty to the animals as well)

[Pakboong]

The number of bells on the old curve actually matters.

[norwayeagle]

Thai or foreign-born, there were some good points brought up.

However, there is also another shade of grey. I personally like Thailand, and I am glad I live here. There are many, manya spects of living here that I find very satisfying.

However, I have posted on TV derogatory remarks about the mundane (lack of a good burger), the frustrating (Bangkok traffic), and the counterproductive (laws on limiting home ownership, regulations which discourage business and tourism.)

Just because I love it here does not mean I am going to put on Thai-colored glasses and see everything as hunky-dory. The good far outweighs the bad, but I am not going to smile when I see a dead motorcyle driver who was going the wrong way down the road and through a red light, or when a traffic cop sees me and decideds I rate a 2,000 baht ticket for some unspecified transgression (or driving while farang).

Having said that, some people are so negative that I too, wonder why they don't pack up their bags and leave. And if they do leave, then why stick around TV?

That poster did not mean people like you. He means people, who hate it here and can't stand anything Thais do.

I can't understand this people too. OK, some are not here entirely on their free will. Their shortcomings back home forced them to that bitter compromise. They prefer their daily tense efforts here to their loneliness or/and rather poor lifes in the West.

Many evenings they sit together and moan about what Thais did wrong that day, while their bought wives sit together on another table and laugh about them

They should realise their situation and look for positive aspects. Otherwise they will be unhappy forever.

Ditto Birdman. Am thinking just the same.

[doggie888888]

In my humble opinion, that piece was way too well written to come from a thai national, even a thai born in a first world country with the benefits of a first world education.

And in my "humble" opinion, your statement is condescending and a reflection of your own ignorance. FYI, l I have met Thais who can read, write and speak better than some British people and the many TV posters who claim English to be their native language. Just because Thais are less likely to put forward any opinions compared to the many empty vessels who shout nonsense and offer unsolicited criticisms (particularly on ThaiVisa) does not make them any less likely to master another language be it English, French or Chinese. Sure many Thais lack the opportunity and means to master a foreign language, but do not generalise and say any well written article is "too well written to come from a thai".

When you make generalisations like that, then don't complain when others do the same to you...for example Shangrila's discrimination against British nationals (see separate thread) based on some generalised perception that they are mainly lager louts who are likely to thrash the room.

And for the record, I agree with the article in the OP ad I hope more Thais like him/her come forward with their opinions.

[oldsparrow]

Thai or foreign-born, there were some good points brought up. However, there is also another shade of grey. I personally like Thailand, and I am glad I live here. There are many, manya spects of living here that I find very satisfying. However, I have posted on TV derogatory remarks about the mundane (lack of a good burger), the frustrating (Bangkok traffic), and the counterproductive (laws on limiting home ownership, regulations which discourage business and tourism.) Just because I love it here does not mean I am going to put on Thai-colored glasses and see everything as hunky-dory. The good far outweighs the bad, but I am not going to smile when I see a dead motorcyle driver who was going the wrong way down the road and through a red light, or when a traffic cop sees me and decideds I rate a 2,000 baht ticket for some unspecified transgression (or driving while farang). Having said that, some people are so negative that I too, wonder why they don't pack up their bags and leave. And if they do leave, then why stick around TV?

That poster did not mean people like you. He means people, who hate it here and can't stand anything Thais do. I can't understand this people too. OK, some are not here entirely on their free will. Their shortcomings back home forced them to that bitter compromise. They prefer their daily tense efforts here to their loneliness or/and rather poor lifes in the West. Many evenings they sit together and moan about what Thais did wrong that day, while their bought wives sit together on another table and laugh about them They should realise their situation and look for positive aspects. Otherwise they will be unhappy forever.

One may think we provide internet in the prison:

"Time's up mate! Lock off TV and get into the ball."

Do you know that one of our traditional ways of execution is to put the convicted into the ball to be kicked around by elephants?

[Birdman]

About critic on TL,

If you read Thai please visit Thai web and Thai forums. You will find that many Thais critic TL a lot and are also very unhappy with the corruption and ^%(#^( THe truth that the $&)#@^($ still exist in TL causes tension and conflict among the Thais as you all see. But there is extra frustration when the foreigners critic us because:

1. What the hello is their business, they can choose to leave and don't have to share all the good and the bad.

2. Hey, I am a Thai but I can not responsible for those ($^(#@^$ Thais.

People like you are the best link to both worlds. In that Thai forums you could help to improve the understanding by explaining Western ways.

For instance that in the West foreigners have not only much to say, but live their traditional ways without any respect for their hosts. So many Westerner, who are used to such a scenario back home, are uncomfortable to be that restricted here in Thailand.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Birdman

[oldsparrow]

Khun Birdman, I am already well known among Thai firends as Farang lover. However, can't help bashing some poster here when I can.

[Birdman]

Khun Birdman, I am already well known among Thai firends as Farang lover. However, can't help bashing some poster here when I can.

Khun oldsparrow, same like me on the other side, but I would never call explaining Thai ways to Westerners bashing.

[Maizefarmer]

Good points - never ceases to amaze me how many folk have a "them and us" perception about Thai's - as if they are somehow different, as if they can't and/or don't see or understand things like Westerners are able to.......... and an underlying theme to many of the threads that stem from incidents about Thai's or the "Thai way of doing things", which OP's share on TV, is often a very subtle suggestion of Western superiority implied discretly through add on comments, like "how could they", or "can you believe it", or similar.

With very few exceptions, I find many of these threads say more about an OP's ignorance or arrogance about Thai's and Thailand.

Thai's have the same concepts of right & wrong, honesty & dishonesty, loyalty/disloyalty. They have the same aspirations and desires. Thai's are humans like the rest of us, and the sooner folk who live here for the long run learn to read, write, speak and communicate with Thai's on much the same level as they can with their peers from back home, the sooner many of these preconceptions are dropped. Them and us preconceptions in the past were tied up in Western colonial attitudes (interestingly, Thailand is the one South East Asia country that was never colonised as Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, HK were by Western countries).

Today, I believe "them & us" perceptions are preserved through the inability to communicate - to be able to speak to a Thai on the same level and with the same ability as one has to speak with a Western peer, very quickly changes ones perception of the individual.

That these attitudes come through so often on ThaiVisa is nothing to do with "whats wrong with TV" - its whats' wrong with an OP (simialr to the OP who lurks in the background of TV, surfacing only to correct others, but otherwise adding very little of value or use to the forum) The otherside of the coin is that TV is an open forum for people to say what they like - and thats how it should stay.

If there is anything "wrong" with TV it is the censorship which kicks in from time to time with respect to certain issues - usualy of a national interest e.g. when Thaksin was thrown out (quite in contravention of Thailands own constitutional rules and regs), critism of Thaksin was permitted, but anything critical about the Generals, their cronies or they way they conducted the coup was quickly stamped on. TV done its self no favours adopting that attitude - moderation at the time should have been neutral, or it should have stamped on all political comment, irrespective of the view - no taking sides - period (from a commercial/advertising point of view, publications which stay neutral traditionaly do better than those which earn a reputation for taking sides! - and advertising on TV is now a important part of its makeup).

Long Live Thai Visa

[ucantbeserious]

my first reaction after a few paragraphs was "this can't have been written by a Thai person".

i see a few others think the same.

so, if it is a fraud, what is the motivation,

who is the author, he/she must be a native english speaker.

i reckon it's written by a farang still in Thai honeymoon mode (the 1st 2 years).

He (probably a he) is married to a Thai lady, still has enough money and thinks he has found heaven on earth.

So, let's wait another 1-2 years and see what he posts when the money is getting low and the wife is getting greedy.

if,

he/she is a Thai,

love to meet and have a chat using language, logic, rational argument and all those good things that make up a proper conversation,

coz that's one thing i have never come close to in Thailand.

[Datsun240Z]

That Thai who wrote the text, Is also complaining isn't he? He schould accept the truth, most Thai's are verry arrogant, although they smile and be polite. We foreigners just have different values and tend to complain more, not for nothing our countries are modernized. If they can't handle a little critics.....

[MKAsok]

my first reaction after a few paragraphs was "this can't have been written by a Thai person".

Whether it was written by a Thai or a foreigner is, in the main, largely an irrelevance and a distraction. Whoever wrote this raised some indisputably valid points and made a fairly articulate and coherent argument. But in doing so, unfortunately and probably to a degree necessarily, displayed degrees of the same kind of generalization, stereotyping and lack of cultural understanding of the very group they were seeking to attack.