Thai Wife Scams My Blue Book

[hhgz]

File a complaint with the Land Department, and claim that the home is a marital asset.

[InterestedObserver]

File a complaint with the Land Department, and claim that the home is a marital asset.

That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved. Is his company, the purported land and house owner, 100% legitimate (sans nominees)?

[Bobsyouruncle]

The OP seems to have disapeared, Troll perhaps?

I think there is another side to this post. If you reading through the OP's previous posts they are mostly about drinking, bars, pubs & clubs. Maybe his wife has good reason to get rid of him.

[nakachalet]

gee wiz....

it is truly a horrifying relationship and story to read, especially at 4 in the morning.... lol

just so, our diversified farangs' experiences are balanced out, in this case, slightly in favor of thai lady....

there are also other farangs, i believe, who have positive relationships with their wives/gf. one particular

family came to mind.

the thai wife owns everything, with her name on everything--even the brandnew pickup truck which

was purchased with the usd. the land itself stretches from one 2-lane freeway to another. within this

property sits a western styled resort, waterfalls, steams, brooks, caves and amazonic miniature

rainforest for tourists and diners to enjoy.

what is it worth? let me see.... yes, i am still counting....

yes, this is a true story.

is the man invalid perhaps, in some way? physically? mentally?

no, he certainly is not, definitely not, that i know of anyway.

why on earth am i relating this real life story anyway?.... lol

oh, yes, i remember now....

just for us to realize that we do not all look at and treat thai ladies

the same way and at the same level of desire and appreciation....

and most importantly, most thai ladies are not at all very

experienced and sophisticated with the exception of those educated abroad.

besides, they are easily led astray by us as well.... shame on me.... lol

[a2396]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.

They should post these stories at every port-of-entry in Thailand. Maybe some of these spendthrift gents would get the message. I personally am sick and tired of every woman in Thailand expecting 1 million bht + sin sod, house, car and monthly salary for her and her family from a Farang. It has become standard operating proceedure (SOP) for them.

[zorro1]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.

They should post these stories at every port-of-entry in Thailand. Maybe some of these spendthrift gents would get the message. I personally am sick and tired of every woman in Thailand expecting 1 million bht + sin sod, house, car and monthly salary for her and her family from a Farang. It has become standard operating proceedure (SOP) for them.

BINGO! and always after moving in / married, before that they never ask for a cent, their different and not like "the others" lol!!

me ex paid for us to stay in 5 star hotels etc( Estranged husbands credit cards) , thought i was luckiest man in BKK. days after signing a 12month lease and moving in she tries for a Million bht which seems to be a bench mark. we split three days later

All you guys out there be warned by the OPs post. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duc.........

Edited July 11, 2009 by zorro1

[MayBeLater]

I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,

She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.

she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.

So you married a person you can't trust, quite stupid. Life is about learning, some learn from mistakes they make others learn from mistakes others make. You should have known better.

Do not marry

Do not buy a house

Do not buy land

Do not trust people 100%

Four simple rules that have to be mandatory when living in Thailand (any third world country) that would have kept you out of troubles.

Edited July 11, 2009 by MayBeLater

[Artabus]

Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.

I would just add :

1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.

2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.

3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.

4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.

All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.

Good luck.

[offset]

My GF has a blue book and until recently did not own a house or land I asked her today how she had a blue book she told me that when she sold her house and land that she owned she did not sell the address so now that she as just got some more land and is building a house she as been to see the head man of village and he as said that it is OK to build the house and she can use the address that is in the blue book (it is on the same road as her old land and house was) so it seems that the blue book does not always goes with the house

[thaiwanderer]

Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.

I would just add :

1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.

2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.

3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.

4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.

All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.

Good luck.

I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!

[hhgz]

"That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."

Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.

[InterestedObserver]

"That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."

Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.

I'll take the bait, what's this recent news?

[Markaew]

I was a "Stupid Falang" several months and everybody here was polite and let me vent my frustrations so I feel for you. Even if you get this straightened out it might be a "cloud" on the ownership of the house.

You always have another option: Does your house have insurance? Need I say more?

[Markaew]

From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -

my Thai Wife ( final divorce hearing is end of July !! ) also stole all my company Papers / documents / chanoot.

i was only a shareholder in the company holding my property .

this is what i did to get all the papers /Documents replaced AND sell the house afterwards !!

i used BSS business services in Pattaya on Soi 17 ,( a good thorough company ) ( who formed the company originally ) to replace all the documents / blue book .

the task was easy because they had copies of everything on file - cost just a few thousand baht and took about a week or two .

the hard part was replacing the chanoot -- ABC Lawyers on Dolphin Roundabout were dealing with my divorce case ( DONT USE THEM for yours ! ) they advised me to report the chanoot as stolen in the Police Station .. ( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? ) the reason to report as stolen was to prove a history of thefts committed by my wife against me , family and friends .

it turns out that if the chanoot is known to be stolen by the land registry ( we gave them the police report as reason to replace it ) , and the wife is known to have it , land registry cannot issue a new one because its where abouts is known and advised me to take civil action against my wife which could take years !!

bad legal advise given initially caused a LOT of problems ..

enter Magna Carta Law Firm =) i had a buyer ready to buy the property but no chanoot .

Magna Carta advised with the newly replaced company papers to change directors to the new owner . the new owner then files a police report that he is not in possession of the chanoot. this police report is taken to Land Registry and used to obtain a replacement chanoot -- legally and safely ... took about 7 weeks and 20k baht for Magna Carta s fees which was the best money i have spent so far in Thailand ... looking forward to going to court on 31st and showing the lease agreement for my newly RENTED property to the soon to be unhappy ex wife =)

you need to make sure the change in directors / shareholders is published - if there is any recourse by your wife that you have illegally removed her from the company , this published article acts under thai law as the chance for someone to object within a small time frame ... and protects you .

i may not have explained myself well but the main point is --saying the chanoot is lost or misplaced is better than saying the wife has stolen it .

depending on the share structure of your company that holds the property you probably have 49% with 2 or more thais holding 51%. if the share xfer documents have been signed you could probably xfer enough shares to your control to call a share holders meeting .. in this meeting you write ( minutes ) that the nominee shareholders have not fully paid up there shares and publish in the local to you thai newspaper that shareholders will be transferred in your company , citing non payment of shares . ( thus removing your wife as shareholder -- can she prove she paid up her shares ? )

good luck .. pm me if u need anymore info ..

keep your chin up.. i know how frustrating / painful it is when the greed comes into play !!!

Good for you, if more guys did what you did, maybe the scams would decrease.

But it doesnt seem like most guys caught in these bad marriages have neither brains nor balls to go trough with it.

Actually Hammer, some of it has to do with amount of funds available. Sometimes the wife has made a money grab and what I have found in LOS is that in every learning experience, even the smallest, cost a good amount of cash. So hiring lawyers and then hiring second lawyers begins to add up. So not everyone that has arrived here has deep pockets to compensate for steep learning curve that we all must go through.

[mickba]

As the OP is in a hurry to sell can he easily establish to a prospective buyer that he actually owns the house?

Chanote for the land alone does not.

Has ownership of the house been registered at the land office?

If not, isn't the blue book required (along with a number of other documents) as part of the registration process (which includes a 30 day public notice inviting objections to the house being registered in the OP's company's name)?

Is the building permit in the OP's company's name?

Is there an appropriately detailed construction contract or house sale and purchase contract (or suffcient such clauses included in the land sale and purchase contract)?

IMHO the blue book being in the wife's name does not necessarily denote her ownership or ensure the house cannot be registered to the OP's company but it is certainly a stumbling block (particularly if in a hurry to sell) and registered ownership of the land alone (with the a blue book in the name of an aggrieved wife) is unlikely to be attractive to a buyer.

(edit - also who knows what the OP signed - maybe a 3year lease / right of habitation ?

As per your edit, we need to know what it was he signed and whether it was something the wife could act upon to transfer ownership of the house to herself.

The OP needs his accountant or lawyer to check at both the Land Office and City Hall to see whether any changes have been made. It should only take an hour or two and if everything is OK then he can sleep more easily.

The Blue Book could well be a red herring here, but can't he get it changed into his company's name or does his wife now have to consent to that?

[thaiwanderer]

"That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."

Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.

I'll take the bait, what's this recent news?

I would like to hear too as I do not recall the land office suddenly becoming sympathetic to farangs using sham companies to own land.

[Artabus]

Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.

I would just add :

1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.

2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.

3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.

4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.

All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.

Good luck.

I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!

Why do you disagree with number #1? Be interested to know what I've missed.

Not going to hijack the thread and worry about #2-4.

Thanks.

[thaiwanderer]

Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.

I would just add :

1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.

I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!

Why do you disagree with number #1? Be interested to know what I've missed.

Not going to hijack the thread and worry about #2-4.

Thanks.

Because paying does not at all equate to ownership.

As an example, the OP's company owns the land (maybe). He doesn't own it. He has benefiical and effective ownership only insofar as he is able to control the company and avoid any investigation as to the method of the company's landholding. Should a dispute without or within the company occur as to control and or ownership of the land occur proving that 'he' (personally) paid for the land does not at all strengthen his personal claim on the land. Indeed it weakens any control or beneficial use he may have via the company as it demonstrates it is a sham. There might (but all bets are off at that stage) then be a forced sale (resulting in little or no value being retained) and he can be found guilty of an imprisonable offence.

This is of course based on the method of ownerhsip ever being disputed, tested or investigated. Decide for yourself on the likelihood of that but when we are talking of ownership structures and the like if the possibility of a dispute or investigation is entirely discounted then farangs may aswell just illegally squat on land.

Once you choose to circumvent the law you are only really building paper houses with contracts of varying thickness. Some are better than others but never forget they are still made of paper.

[Artabus]

Because paying does not at all equate to ownership.

As an example, the OP's company owns the land (maybe). He doesn't own it. He has benefiical and effective ownership only insofar as he is able to control the company and avoid any investigation as to the method of the company's landholding. Should a dispute without or within the company occur as to control and or ownership of the land occur proving that 'he' (personally) paid for the land does not at all strengthen his personal claim on the land. Indeed it weakens any control or beneficial use he may have via the company as it demonstrates it is a sham. There might (but all bets are off at that stage) then be a forced sale (resulting in little or no value being retained) and he can be found guilty of an imprisonable offence.

This is of course based on the method of ownerhsip ever being disputed, tested or investigated. Decide for yourself on the likelihood of that but when we are talking of ownership structures and the like if the possibility of a dispute or investigation is entirely discounted then farangs may aswell just illegally squat on land.

Once you choose to circumvent the law you are only really building paper houses with contracts of varying thickness. Some are better than others but never forget they are still made of paper.

Thanks very much for clarifying your answer. Very interesting detail. I see my experience was not relevant to the OP, something I should have spotted...

[siddv]

You guys are incredible. You know the golden rule in Thailand. NEVER invest in Thailand more than you are willing or can stand to lose. ESPECIALLY IF THIS INVOLVES A WOMEN, which when dealing with real estate is usually 100% of the time. Walk away with your life and you will be the richer for it... and lucky too!!!

[dmax]

Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??

That is what counts.

So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.

With all due respect. nothing like stating the obvious, "Something wrong in your relationship me thinks."

of course theres something wrong with this relationship,,just answer his question and dont be putting him under anymore pressure than what he is under allready....i would live in the house myself and try keep her out no matter what,,thats if u can afford to do so....failing all that i would torch it,,honestly!

hope u get it sorted one way or the other,,best of luck..

[scorecard]

and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.

-----

.......

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land,

-----

...... He tells you that the house belongs to her and also that you can knock it down... if so, then why can't you sell it? Odd, don't you think?

There's a lot of interesting comments here which seem to be in your favor.

Surely you have already had the documents you signed translated to English to be sure of exactly what you signed!

If you don't have a copy, then get your new lawyer do demand a copy from your ex-wife. Surely she, ultimatelly, can't refuse you a copy.

If she did try to take you to court then your lawyer (therefore you) would be absolutely entitled to have copies of any documents she intended to submit to the court.

Another tactic might be to claim you are goigt to take her to court and therefore she must give copies of all documents as part of the court process and cannot refuse.

Seems to me you need to get a new and very reputable lawyer and fast and pay whatever it costs.

I suggest that you summarize the comments offered here and take these with you to the new lawyer. I would do this as a test of the lawyers integrity and his/her knowledge of the law, as well as to confirm exact intertretations, possibilities, etc.

For example:

- Tell the lawyer that you believe the sole purpose of a Tabien Baan book is a registry of the people who actually live at the house and nothing more. Ask if your understanding is correct, check the response. Another point to check very carefully is the legal status in terms of ownership or whatever of the person nominated as the head of the house in the Tabien Baan book.

- Do something similar in terms of the building permit stuff, etc. Maybe also go to the builder beforehand and ask for copies of whatever documents the builder is holding, and also ask the builder whether he's aware of any other usage of these documents after the house was completed. Perhaps also get these translated into English so you have good understanding of what the documents say.

[Heng]

The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land,

This is the main issue with all of these 'lease the building/house' on someone else's property issue (including your wife or s.o.). In the end, you've got a bunch of concrete, brick, and rubble that you either have to try to sell to someone else (likely at a huge loss), or dismantle and move somewhere else (at a huge loss AND inconvenience). And that's the positive route... the other is that you could end up in court for a decade racking up court and legal fees first before you lose.

[Tigs]

Well, if, as some have suggested, you walk away, I would hire a JCB first and do some 'landscaping' on my land. Good Luck. Is the piece of land large? and the house of significant value. Could you walk away?

Edited July 27, 2009 by Tigs

[sabaijai]

I assume the OP will be getting a divorce. Thai divorce law says that no matter whose name is on which document, the values of all assets accrued by a couple after marriage are divisible 50-50, and yes this applies to foreign nationals as well as Thais.

[Thongkorn]

The Blue Book is just a registration book for those who live at the propety. its so that the police can check to see if they are Born in Thailand , a bit like sensuous document . Nothing to do with House or land ownership.

[dumball]

May I be permitted to put a different 'Slant' on all of this house thing , First the OP says HE has a company that owns the land , he cannot , he is only a minority owner , should he go to prove the point HE fronted the money for the land he is screwed because that is ILLEGAL , so he can be out voted in what ever may be the outcome regarding the property .

The OP states that HE payed to have the house built so therefore he owns it and not his wife , he is screwed there because a non Thai cannot 'Own' a house , it has to be in the name of a Thai or a registered company of which HE can only be a minority share holder so he can be out voted as to the future of the house , screwed again .

In Thai law it seems that on divorcing it becomes a 50/50 split on sale of assets , therefore his best and by far the easiest path for him is to forget lawyers/accountants etc which can and will cost him even more of his hard earned monies , take the divorce , take his 50% and run .

From all the threads and stories I have listened to over the years , I never got even close to this kind of situation because I had taken advise from my first boss , he said " They say that experience comes from the accumulation of all of the mistakes a person makes in their daily lives , my advice to you is to pay attention to the other guy and learn from HIS mistakes about what NOT to do in your life , you will find that a much more simple and cheaper way to learn ".

Hope I am not raining on somebody elses parade and what I have learned(hopefully) from others in this respect is at least somewhere in the ballpark .

[lioness]

From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -

( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? )

What ????

[dumball]

So that's where the expression came from "What's yours is mine and mine's my own" , well normaly in a marriage the general theme is to 'Share and share alike ' , but then again TiT LOL 555 .

[aras]

Dear people,

Why are you advising this man when you dont get how it works in thailand?? I just stopped reading your comments.

He is doing a illegal thing, (buying land in company name). so he probably has not much to work with.

he could pay a great deal o money and try a connected smart lawyer and pray, thats all .

My friend you have no real lawfull rights since by thai law you own a land illegally.

A foreigner can not own land in thailand unless he has permission from the interionr ministry to own a land of maximum 1 rai for eresidential use in therefore designated..........etc etc

Wish you the best

-------------------

now i read more

dumbal is absolutely right

let this be a lesson to everyone...which it wont be i am sure

you cant buy love with money...it sure does help a lot but be carefullll

Edited October 26, 2009 by aras