Kasit, Pad Leaders Charged

[animatic]

Not sure of charged is the right word for the topic headline.

Seems called in for questioning fits better.

And would explain the lack of intention to stop working.

It is another step in the process of course.

But no one is 'charged' yet.

[slimdog]

Not sure of charged is the right word for the topic headline.

Seems called in for questioning fits better.

And would explain the lack of intention to stop working.

It is another step in the process of course.

But no one is 'charged' yet.

The correct word is summoned.

However, even though the case is still quite a way away from any formal charges let alone court appearances, there are other considerations which should come into the equation. The first consideration is the ASEAN summit later this month. During this summit the foreign Minister will play an important part, both with Heads of State and fellow Foreign Ministers. It would be irresponsible of the host country (Thailand) to place any of these dignitories in a position where photo's, meetings or treaties coming from the summit could be used by rivals of these dignitories for political gain.

[geriatrickid]

Do you seriously believe a report about a few protesters exercising their democratic rights at some airport almost a year ago should be headline news when there is breaking news about the panda cub opening it's left eye? 

Hopefully that was sarcasm. Yes, protesting is a democratic right, but seizing an airport and damaging the national economy is selfish vandalism. BTW, Having an elected government is democracy, having a military coup as supported by those charged was not democratic.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

Same can be said about giving Thaksin a fair trial free of political interference.

It was not an error. Probably Abhisit hates this kind of dreadful person but he has not choice, he's hostage of the fascist axis which obliged him to take this shitty Kasit and to provoke so stupidly the Reds, Cambodia and the South of his own country.

Now, to say the truth, the today news about PAD charged is surprising. At this moment, I don't have any clue why it happens.

But I'm not Thai and I'm aware of what is behind the curtain.

Astute observation. Maybe, Abhisit is trying to establish his own presence and break some of these cabals.

The first consideration is the ASEAN summit later this month. During this summit the foreign Minister will play an important part, both with Heads of State and fellow Foreign Ministers. It would be irresponsible of the host country (Thailand) to place any of these dignitories in a position where photo's, meetings or treaties coming from the summit could be used by rivals of these dignitories for political gain.

And that's why the FM Mr. K must resign. No way the Australians are going to want to be seen shaking hands with a person implicated in events where Australians were put at risk, hassled and running up a few million dollars of expenses for Australia.

[hardy1943]

Mr Kasit should resign regardless if charges stick and the Dems should try and get former ambassador to the US Tej Bunnag back in the Foreign Minister post. Mr Tej is highly respected with an unblemished record.

After Mr Thaksin's lawyer/Samak Govt Foreign Minister Noppadon's dutiful servant bungling of Preah Vear, Mr Tej reluctantly accepted the role. He resigned immediately after Mr Samak's alleged 'engineered' state of emergency. Bring back Mr Tej (if he's not fed up with it all already).

I agree.

Kasit should fall on his sword similar to the Dem. Bangkok Governor did,

for the good of the country till absolved.

And your alternative is excellent Kuhn Tej would be a very fine choice back in the job,

and a positive across the aisle kind of choice too. One of competence over patronage.

I remember all the whining about PAD never getting charged ;even when they have been,

or not going to court; even is they had , and even as typically the process moves along,

as slowly as Thailand moves it's legal processes. Well one more piece in the puzzle.

Certainly the new PAD party and it's implied threat, could have moved this forward a touch too.

But having Kasit also charged goes towards more even handedness than typically credited.

After he is convicted and in jail and not walking around then I beleive it

[Serpico]

The Yellows should be hanged for their activities.

Yellows storm TV Station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTeVp2wxxE

Edited July 6, 2009 by Serpico

[Datsun240Z]

the panda cub opening it's left eye?

kha

Edited July 6, 2009 by Datsun240Z

[hammered]

Im sure all those calling for Kasit's immediate resignation also called for Thaksin's when he first had cases brought against him plus all those PPP ministers who refused to resign;)

Anyway I feel safe from hypocricy in saying I feel Kasit sdhould resign. Apirak set a good example as did Yuth 'dooyen".

By the way, to prove terrorist charges intent will probably need to be proven which will be difficult. However, bringing the charges has a polical element. Now big charges can be pushed against UDD and Thaksin - he did after all call for revolution live on TV and they demonstrably violated the democratic rights of other citizens live on TV. In the past the UDD said it was unfair because yellows werent charged big now they have been........

Imho all those who broke the laws need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. To not do so or to issue some amnesty will only encourage the excesses in the future. So this move is a good one. Now it is up for courts to decide.

[animatic]

A slight qualification.

I suggested earlier that Kasit fall on his sword for the country.

That was based on the 'Charged' element, which is missing.

If that is not the case, and it is only questioning,

then as with Apirak he should go when actually charged.

Questioning alone, may not really be enough to warrant this,

except for those who never thought he should ever have the job

for making a speech they didn't like.

I have seen nothing to say Kasit in any way planned or aided the airport take over.

But his lapse of good judgment was to make a speech against the Somchai government FROM the airport.

If he had made the same speech from Central World, the same people would be screaming,

but not as loudly.

For many 'the friend of my enemy is my enemy',

while in greyish reality it's just as likely they are

someone with partial agreement with some of your enemy's points,

but likely not all. Or in the same heated manner.

As far as other FM's meeting with him next week, none have canceled in disgust.

I am sure a complete dossier is held on him and the yellow event by ALL parties coming to the meeting.

[henryalleman]

have they been charged or summonsed to give statements ?

It's just a summons.Charges will never be pressed and PAD know it.That (and in the knowledge their action was highly unpopular) is why they're not out on the streets squealing like stuck pigs.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

I realize it is bad to shut down the airports. But looking at the bright side, no body knew that Pattaya (where I live) has an airport before then.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

In a genuine democracy a minister will step down the moment there are criminal investigations against him.

BTW I know Mr; Kasit on a personal base, and I respect him.

[Old Man River]

Funny how this rather important piece of news is hidden on The Nation...

Not hidden at all. It's about priorities. Do you seriously believe a report about a few protesters exercising their democratic rights at some airport almost a year ago should be headline news when there is breaking news about the panda cub opening it's left eye? 

Jeffer, this is hilarious and yet so true. This panda BS has been an embarrassment to many Thai's in Bangkok.

[Bangyai]

One thing is for sure. Kasit will never willingly resign. He will have to be leaned on by something very heavy before he takes the long walk off a short plank. Clearly he couldn't give a toss about the Democrats and will continue to be an embarrassment to them until someone burst his bubble and lets some air out of his over inflated ego.

If he is ever given the boot he will pop up like a bad penny in the PADs new party...no great loss to him.

[Old Man River]

have they been charged or summonsed to give statements ?

It's just a summons.Charges will never be pressed and PAD know it.That (and in the knowledge their action was highly unpopular) is why they're not out on the streets squealing like stuck pigs.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

I realize it is bad to shut down the airports. But looking at the bright side, no body knew that Pattaya (where I live) has an airport before then.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

In a genuine democracy a minister will step down the moment there are criminal investigations against him.

BTW I know Mr; Kasit on a personal base, and I respect him.

Henry, you have already said that Kasit was the puu yai at your wedding. I respect the puu yai at my wedding who is thankfully long retired and out of political and judicial harms way, but in my view this is more about Abhisit than Kasit anyway.

Following Sukhumphand's win (rumors were that he was first choice), Abhisit knew full well that if he appointed Kasit it would become a PR problem for the Democrats, but he appointed Kasit anyway. Now he has to deal with it when he should be focused on more important issues.

[Thai at Heart]

have they been charged or summonsed to give statements ?

It's just a summons.Charges will never be pressed and PAD know it.That (and in the knowledge their action was highly unpopular) is why they're not out on the streets squealing like stuck pigs.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

I realize it is bad to shut down the airports. But looking at the bright side, no body knew that Pattaya (where I live) has an airport before then.

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

In a genuine democracy a minister will step down the moment there are criminal investigations against him.

BTW I know Mr; Kasit on a personal base, and I respect him.

I think we should wait until he is found guilty, before we judge him as guilty.

However, that doesn't in any way mean that he shouldn't resign because he is charged. Could he be the first sitting politician in the world to be charged with terrorism?

[animatic]

Could he be the first sitting politician in the world to be charged with terrorism?

Not even close.

[justanothercybertosser]

Following Sukhumphand's win (rumors were that he was first choice), Abhisit knew full well that if he appointed Kasit it would become a PR problem for the Democrats, but he appointed Kasit anyway. Now he has to deal with it when he should be focused on more important issues.

Abhisit went to bed with the PAD, and he has to pay the bill. It is not just Kasit who is a problem, but that many top advisers of key ministries are high ranked PAD members.

To whom will they be more loyal...to a weak party leading the government, or to the cult they sprung from in the first place?

[Thai at Heart]

Could he be the first sitting politician in the world to be charged with terrorism?

Not even close.

Ironically, when I google "Politicians charges with terrorism", I get stories about Zimbabwe, Uganda with Kasit's story 4th.

Good to see the Thai political system keeping such illustrious friends.

[Old Man River]

Following Sukhumphand's win (rumors were that he was first choice), Abhisit knew full well that if he appointed Kasit it would become a PR problem for the Democrats, but he appointed Kasit anyway. Now he has to deal with it when he should be focused on more important issues.

Abhisit went to bed with the PAD, and he has to pay the bill. It is not just Kasit who is a problem, but that many top advisers of key ministries are high ranked PAD members.

To whom will they be more loyal...to a weak party leading the government, or to the cult they sprung from in the first place?

Which are the many top advisers of key ministries that are high ranked PAD members?

[justanothercybertosser]

Which are the many top advisers of key ministries that are high ranked PAD members?

The one i am aware of from the top of my head (without searching in my files) is Khunying Kalaya's advisor in the science and technology ministry.

[catmac]

We should not tread Kasit guilty until he has been charge. We have to give him the benefit of doubt.

In a genuine democracy a minister will step down the moment there are criminal investigations against him.

BTW I know Mr; Kasit on a personal base, and I respect him.

Henry, nobody is saying that Kasit is not worthy of respect, simply that he made a grave error of judgment in his involvement with PAD at Swampy, and for that he forfeited his perhaps justified right to serve as FM. As you said, "in a genuine democracy a minister will step down the moment there are criminal investigations against him". Kasit's refusal to step down simply reinforces our belief that Thailand is not a genuine democracy!

[Old Man River]

Which are the many top advisers of key ministries that are high ranked PAD members?

The one i am aware of from the top of my head (without searching in my files) is Khunying Kalaya's advisor in the science and technology ministry.

I will check it out, but one possible adviser does not = many. Abhisit did not get in bed with the PAD. He did go with Kasit knowing it would be an issue eventually (as it is now), but the fact is that there aren't a whole lot of guys out there that can do this job that actually want it. Kasit was, therefore, the obvious choice when Sukumphand took the Bangkok election.

[Old Man River]

Could he be the first sitting politician in the world to be charged with terrorism?

Not even close.

That is what I first thought, but after thinking about it, who else? There may be terrorists running countries (a number come to mind), but not anyone I can think of that has been officially charged with terrorism. Remember, Bashir was charged with genocide not terrorism.

[hammered]

Could he be the first sitting politician in the world to be charged with terrorism?

Not even close.

That is what I first thought, but after thinking about it, who else? There may be terrorists running countries (a number come to mind), but not anyone I can think of that has been officially charged with terrorism. Remember, Bashir was charged with genocide not terrorism.

Roy Bennet (Zimbabwe), and Mohamed Nasheed (Maldives) from a quick search were both charged with Terrorism

[bungy007]

It was a grave error of judgment by Abhisit to allow Kasit to become Foreign Minister

It was not an error. Probably Abhisit hates this kind of dreadful person but he has not choice, he's hostage of the fascist axis which obliged him to take this shitty Kasit and to provoke so stupidly the Reds, Cambodia and the South of his own country.

Now, to say the truth, the today news about PAD charged is surprising. At this moment, I don't have any clue why it happens.

But I'm not Thai and I'm aware of what is behind the curtain.

I think this is an unfair assessment.Kasit is definitely a decent person and what is more an experienced diplomat, and I am quite sure that Abhisit gets on perfectly well with him.The problem - and it's a huge one - is that he made a spectacular lapse in judgement in being an active participator in the PAD airport occupation.Abhisit equally showed shoddy judgement in appointing him as FM.

Hmmm. Me thinks its a stretch to call any Thai politician 'decent'. If this was the case with Kasit then he should follow through on his own soundbite taken not so long ago in which he stated he would resign if the case was to be brought to the courts. Let us see how decent he really is!

[sriracha john]

Police guard Ministry of Foreign Affairs as UDD pressure Mr Kasit to resign

BANGKOK, 9 July 2009 (NNT) - Phayathai Police have dispatched security units to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs after the anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) declared they would gather in front of the ministry to expel Minister of Foreign Affairs Kasit Piromya.

Phayathai Police Station Superintendent Police Major General Chirapat Phochanaphan said security detail dispatched to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs this morning was necessitated by the UDD. The group has called for Mr Kasit to step down due to a charge issued against him in the airport seizure case. The group has condemned Mr Kasit’s decision to remain in office as disgraceful.

Police Major General Chirapat said that a total of 125 officers had been dispatched to the ministry and that continual monitors of the situation would take place.

-- NNT 2009-07-09

[sriracha john]

the anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) declared they would gather in front of the ministry to expel Minister of Foreign Affairs Kasit Piromya.

Let's hope the Reds don't resort to their usual tactics... eg.

Public Health Minister flees from surounding red-shirts

During the incident, clashes occurred between police officers and UDD supporters.

[hammered]

I didnt notice the UDD wanting to expel Surapong and a bunch of other ex-PPP ministers when they were charged with offences. In fact they then believed ministers should stay until proven guilty to highest level of appeal. Or it could be argued beyond that considering they are heavily linked to and some would say a front for a convicted criminal.

Just pure partisan politics linked to the usual power plays of the big men here. Dont expect any ideals or that kind of nonsense.

Wonder if Jatuporn ever reflects on his previous years with a sense of irony (and hopefully intense regret) when these statements get made?

[Wiresok]

"I didnt notice the UDD wanting to expel Surapong and a bunch of other ex-PPP ministers when they were charged with offences. In fact they then believed ministers should stay until proven guilty to highest level of appeal. Or it could be argued beyond that considering they are heavily linked to and some would say a front for a convicted criminal."

But what were you saying?

[jayboy]

I didnt notice the UDD wanting to expel Surapong and a bunch of other ex-PPP ministers when they were charged with offences. In fact they then believed ministers should stay until proven guilty to highest level of appeal. Or it could be argued beyond that considering they are heavily linked to and some would say a front for a convicted criminal.

Just pure partisan politics linked to the usual power plays of the big men here. Dont expect any ideals or that kind of nonsense.

Wonder if Jatuporn ever reflects on his previous years with a sense of irony (and hopefully intense regret) when these statements get made?

I don't buy this kind of moral relativism.Abhisit and Kasit hold themselves to a higher standard, and with good reason.The likelihood now is that Kasit will eventually go but my guess is that the timing will be determined politically, ie when the government is not seen as yielding to opposition/UDD pressure.But the fact remains that Kasit's current posture is one of dishonour, and a highly principled man would have resigned or at least offered his resignation to the PM to avoid embarrassing the government.

Three further points.

1.Why on earth did Abhisit make the appointment in the first place, a guaranteed Heffalump trap as readers of Winnie the Pooh will appreciate.Was it part of an unholy pact with PAD and its backers, when that movement had a lot more clout than it does now?

2.Kasit's attitude reminds me of many upper middle class Thais when they are crossed, a descent into unreasonableness and bad tempered incoherence.

3.Why didn't the fellow offer a face saving apology which would I think have defused the problem? He wouldn't have had to apologise for his motives or deny the genuine morality of the early stage PAD philosophy, just say he deeply regretted his lapse of judgement in joining the airport mob.

[hammered]

I didnt notice the UDD wanting to expel Surapong and a bunch of other ex-PPP ministers when they were charged with offences. In fact they then believed ministers should stay until proven guilty to highest level of appeal. Or it could be argued beyond that considering they are heavily linked to and some would say a front for a convicted criminal.

Just pure partisan politics linked to the usual power plays of the big men here. Dont expect any ideals or that kind of nonsense.

Wonder if Jatuporn ever reflects on his previous years with a sense of irony (and hopefully intense regret) when these statements get made?

I don't buy this kind of moral relativism.Abhisit and Kasit hold themselves to a higher standard, and with good reason.The likelihood now is that Kasit will eventually go but my guess is that the timing will be determined politically, ie when the government is not seen as yielding to opposition/UDD pressure.But the fact remains that Kasit's current posture is one of dishonour, and a highly principled man would have resigned or at least offered his resignation to the PM to avoid embarrassing the government.

Three further points.

1.Why on earth did Abhisit make the appointment in the first place, a guaranteed Heffalump trap as readers of Winnie the Pooh will appreciate.Was it part of an unholy pact with PAD and its backers, when that movement had a lot more clout than it does now?

2.Kasit's attitude reminds me of many upper middle class Thais when they are crossed, a descent into unreasonableness and bad tempered incoherence.

3.Why didn't the fellow offer a face saving apology which would I think have defused the problem? He wouldn't have had to apologise for his motives or deny the genuine morality of the early stage PAD philosophy, just say he deeply regretted his lapse of judgement in joining the airport mob.

I wasnt actualluy making a moral relativism defence for Kasit who I beleieve should go, but just pointing out gross hypocricy.

By the way Chuan has an interesdting statement out:

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva must have his own reasons for not removing Foreign Affairs Minister Kasit Piromya, advisory chairman of the Democrats Chuan Leekpai said on Saturday.

From the post: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...r-keeping-kasit

[Plus]

I think Kosit doesn't want to resign at the moment because charges are grossly exxagerated.

He didn't order the march to the airport, he didn't endanger anyone's lives, didn't threaten anyone with violence or any other "terrorist" stuff.

It's not "criminal" investigation, speaking on the stage is not a criminal activity, and I don't think they are charging him for the content of his speech either.

In Kosit's view, the police managed to file the spurious charges, and he doesn't feel guilty of what he has been charged with in any way. My guess the next step would be indictment by prosecutors, 'cos they are not going to take a hopeless case on board. If they do, then Kosit should follow the example of Apirak.

As for his earlier promise to resign - I suppose he meant real charges, for real offences, not fantasy like "terrorism" or "treason".

>>>>>

Politically it's a hot potato nevertheless, and I hope Abhisit knows what he's doing, he might pay dearly for keeping Kosit onboard, the upside could also be substantial, if the charges will turn out to be really laughable.

>>>>>

As far as I remember the advisor to the Science Minister Khunying Kalaya has worked as her assistant for some twenty years, why would anyone think that he/she got the position as Kalaya's advisor at the Ministry not for his/her decades of personal service but for being high-ranking PAD member?