Highwayman Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 In todays edition of The Nation are several photos of HRH Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn and his wife Mom Srirasmi Mahidol na Ayudhya. They are pictured at a birthday party for His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani. Who is is this prince? Is he the father-in-law of the Crown Prince? I don't recall seeing the term Serene used for Thai nobility before either. What is its significance? Also, any ideas why the Crown Prince appears to be holding a walkie-talkie or a satellite phone? I would have thought he would have an aide to look after things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 In todays edition of The Nation are several photos of HRH Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn and his wife Mom Srirasmi Mahidol na Ayudhya.They are pictured at a birthday party for His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani. Who is is this prince? Is he the father-in-law of the Crown Prince? I don't recall seeing the term Serene used for Thai nobility before either. What is its significance? Also, any ideas why the Crown Prince appears to be holding a walkie-talkie or a satellite phone? I would have thought he would have an aide to look after things like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Serene Highnesses are a feature of Thai Royalty. Prince Bhisatej is in charge of the Kings agricultural projects Mom Srirasmi is now a Serene Highness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 In todays edition of The Nation are several photos of HRH Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn and his wife Mom Srirasmi Mahidol na Ayudhya.They are pictured at a birthday party for His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani. Who is is this prince? Is he the father-in-law of the Crown Prince? I don't recall seeing the term Serene used for Thai nobility before either. What is its significance? Also, any ideas why the Crown Prince appears to be holding a walkie-talkie or a satellite phone? I would have thought he would have an aide to look after things like that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Serene Highnesses are a feature of Thai Royalty. Prince Bhisatej is in charge of the Kings agricultural projects Mom Srirasmi is now a Serene Highness. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where is Prince Bhisatej at in the Royal Family tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 To administer his burgeoning program, the king appointed Cambridge-educated Prince Bhisatej Rajani, his distant cousin and a member of the royal family with the rank of mom chai (prince)); the prince was the king's trusted friend and companion and a frequent guest at Bhuping Palace. The king's choice of Bhisatej signified his intention to make the PROJECT a particularly personal endeavor. From the beginning, it bore the stamp of his preference for maximum direct assistance with a minimum of red tape. Bhisatej proved to be the ideal leader. From:http://www.rmaf.org.ph/Awardees/Biography/BiographyRoyalProject.htm Quite the public guy in CM, too. Seems to be at most of the social events in town, including some restaurant openings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Interesting the use of HSH, here. In Europe German Princes and princes of the Holy Roman Empire, who are not royal are addressed in that manner. This the second from lowest rank, His/Her Illustrious Highness being the lowest, usually counts of the holy roman empire. HSH, is also reserved for offspring of morganatic marriages (usually where the male marries, a female of lesser rank), ie. HSH Prince Louis of Battengberg. Normally the next rank down from HRH, is HH, I am surprised that it not used here instead of HSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) Interesting the use of HSH, here. In Europe German Princes and princes of the Holy Roman Empire, who are not royal are addressed in that manner. This the second from lowest rank, His/Her Illustrious Highness being the lowest, usually counts of the holy roman empire. HSH, is also reserved for offspring of morganatic marriages (usually where the male marries, a female of lesser rank), ie. HSH Prince Louis of Battengberg. Normally the next rank down from HRH, is HH, I am surprised that it not used here instead of HSH. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The difference here is that the Thai Royal family is still in existance. The royal families in Europe are gone except for 10 jurisdictions (the UK, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg (Grand Duchy), Liechtenstein (Principality) and Monaco (Principality))......so its just silly to refer to anyone else in other places in Europe as princes or nobility.... In Thailand, children of a sovereign are usually referred to as "Chao Fa" or "HRH". Grandchildren of a sovereign are usually referred to as "Pra Ong Chao" or "HRH or HH" depending on exact title and status...""Phra Chao Vorawongse Ther POC" or "Phra Vorawongse Ther POC". Great grandchildren of a sovereign are usually referred to as "Mom Chao" or "His/Her Serene Highness". Great great grandchildren of a sovereign lose royal status but are identified as "Mom Rachawong" or "M.R." and great great great grandchildren are identified as "Mon Luang" or "ML". Beyond that generation, the surname of the family just appends "Na Ayudthaya" at the end to reference royal ancestry. HSH Prince Bhisatej Rajani is a "Mom Chao" and his father was HH Prince Rajani Chamcharas (Prince Bidyalongkorn). His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani, the chairman of The Royal Project Foundation, was born on Jan. 20, 1922. He joined the British Army in 1943, and engaged in underground resistance activities against the Japanese in Thailand in World War II. He has served as director of the Thai-United Nations Hill-Tribe Economic Development Project, as chairman of the Highland Agricultural Research Committee, and as director of The Royal Project. Edited February 22, 2005 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Serene Highnesses are a feature of Thai Royalty. Prince Bhisatej is in charge of the Kings agricultural projects Mom Srirasmi is now a Serene Highness. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Mom" pronounced with a short "o".... not like Mom and Dad is a title for a non-royal female consort....it's not the same as a "Mom Chao" which is translated as His/Her Serene Highness. If a HRH Chao Fa (like the Crown Prince) has children with a royal wife, the children have the elevated title of HRH or HH Prince or Princess (Pra Ong Chao).....but if a HRH Chao Fa has children with a non-royal wife (a "Mom"), the children have a slightly lower rank of "Mom Chao" HSH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks to ajarn and trajan for very informative posts. How does Royal Consort fit into this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks to ajarn and trajan for very informative posts. How does Royal Consort fit into this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> She was elevated to a Serene Highness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 ))......so its just silly to refer to anyone else in other places in Europe as princes or nobility.... 100's of years of tradition does not disappear over night, nor should it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Serene Highnesses are a feature of Thai Royalty. Prince Bhisatej is in charge of the Kings agricultural projects Mom Srirasmi is now a Serene Highness. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If a HRH Chao Fa (like the Crown Prince) has children with a royal wife, the children have the elevated title of HRH or HH Prince or Princess (Pra Ong Chao).....but if a HRH Chao Fa has children with a non-royal wife (a "Mom"), the children have a slightly lower rank of "Mom Chao" HSH. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for clarifying that. I was going to say that searching on the web, I had found several examples of grandchildren of Chao fas (or should that be chaos fa?) who are 'merely' morm rachawongs. Who count as royal wives? Is it Mom chao and above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks for the interesting and informative replies. His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani, the chairman of The Royal Project Foundation, was born on Jan. 20, 1922. I wonder why it took so long for him to have his birthday party. The report in The Nation says the party was held Saturday night. I had asked a few locals who had no idea who he was and thought he might have been the father-in-law of the Crown Prince however my wife who comes from the same area as his wife didn't think that was the case, correctly it seems. The Royal Project has a few retail outlets which might be worth a visit if you are in the area. They sell a mix of goods, OTOP style things, groceries and cosmetics mainly. There's one in the basement of Future Park Rangsit and another outside Ake Pathum Hospital, Rangsit Klong 2, Hwy. #305. I think there is also an outlet in Chiang Mai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks for clarifying that. I was going to say that searching on the web, I had found several examples of grandchildren of Chao fas (or should that be chaos fa?) who are 'merely' morm rachawongs.Who count as royal wives? Is it Mom chao and above? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be counted as royal, I believe the rank of the wife would need to either be born a HSH "Mom Chao" or above or elevated by the sovereign to such royal rank. I believe the first wife of the Crown Prince (HRH Princess Soamsavali Kitiyakara) was elevated to royal rank because her father was a "Mom Rajawong" and mother a HSH "Mom Chao". Therefore, their daughter is a HRH (Phra Ong Chao) HRH Princess Bajrakitiyabha. I wasnt aware that the current wife of the Crown Prince was elevated from "Mom" to "Mom Chao"...If so, she should be referred to as HSH not "Mom" By the way, the Thai language does not add "s" to make plurals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 (edited) Thanks to ajarn and trajan for very informative posts. How does Royal Consort fit into this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mom Srirasmi Mahidol na Ayudhya is the "Royal Consort" of the Thai Crown Prince just like Mrs. Camilla Parker-Bowles will be the Royal Consort of the British Crown Prince after they marry (but she will have the courtesy title of "HRH The Duchess of Cornwall" or "HRH The Duchess of Rothesay" (within Scotland) NOT "HRH The Princess of Wales") and if the British Crown Prince becomes King, Parker-Bowles will be the "Princess Consort" not "Queen". Edited February 23, 2005 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks to ajarn and trajan for very informative posts. How does Royal Consort fit into this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mom Srirasmi Mahidol na Ayudhya is the "Royal Consort" of the Thai Crown Prince just like Mrs. Camilla Parker-Bowles will be the Royal Consort of the British Crown Prince after they marry (but she will have the courtesy title of "HRH The Duchess of Cornwall" or "HRH The Duchess of Rothesay" (within Scotland) NOT "HRH The Princess of Wales") and if the British Crown Prince becomes King, Parker-Bowles will be the "Princess Consort" not "Queen". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can the Royal Consort of the Thai Crown Prince ever become a Queen? And is she the mother of a son who can be an heir to the throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thanks for the interesting and informative replies. His Serene Highness Prince Bhisatej Rajani, the chairman of The Royal Project Foundation, was born on Jan. 20, 1922. I wonder why it took so long for him to have his birthday party. The report in The Nation says the party was held Saturday night. I had asked a few locals who had no idea who he was and thought he might have been the father-in-law of the Crown Prince however my wife who comes from the same area as his wife didn't think that was the case, correctly it seems. The Royal Project has a few retail outlets which might be worth a visit if you are in the area. They sell a mix of goods, OTOP style things, groceries and cosmetics mainly. There's one in the basement of Future Park Rangsit and another outside Ake Pathum Hospital, Rangsit Klong 2, Hwy. #305. I think there is also an outlet in Chiang Mai. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HQ for the Royal projects is ChiangMai. The Prince is truly a really great unaffected guy. I have enjoyed his company on a number of occasions and had glasses of good quality red with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard W Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Chao fas (or should that be chaos fa?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By the way, the Thai language does not add "s" to make plurals <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But you don't have to use foreign plurals in English! After all, we usually say 'farangs', not 'farang', as the plural in English. Can the Royal Consort of the Thai Crown Prince ever become a Queen? And is she the mother of a son who can be an heir to the throne? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Women were not permitted to be monarch until the current reign. Rama II and Rama III did not have royal mothers, but succeeded their fathers. However, Rama II did have a son by a royal mother, Rama IV as he became, but the elder son Rama III succeeded because minorities are dangerous in troubled times. I don't know when it became apparent that the man who became Rama IV would be the next king. He stayed a monk until he inherited the throne. It's interesting to note that Rama V's maternal grandfather was a son of Rama III. I've read that one of the contenders for the succession when Ayutthaya was destroyed was a half-brother of the previous two kings by a non-royal mother. He was the only serious contender from the royal family. I don't know how much freedom there is in selecting the monarch. Apparently it wasn't obvious to all that Rama VIII would succeed when Rama VII abdicated, and I have heard it said that a patently unfit person would not succeed to the throne. It is, however, relevant that Rama VIII's father was a chao fa. Again, in the case of the last two kings at Ayutthaya, the throne alternated between a less competent elder brother and a more competent younger brother, who was nominated by his father as heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajarn Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Just wanted to point out to George that polite discussions concerning the Royal Family CAN happen here, as you can see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 And to clarify further, will the pregnancy of the current Mom Chao, due in May and he is a boy apparently.... Will he then be next in line to the Monarchy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted February 27, 2005 Share Posted February 27, 2005 The succession is a very sensitive and complex subject which should definitely not be discussed here. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 The succession is a very sensitive and complex subject which should definitely not be discussed here.Patrick <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts