Ownership Of House

[manse]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

[InSiSongkram]

Sounds like you didn`t do your homework properly on the house when you bought it but 7M is a lot of money to loose either way best of luck.

[p_brownstone]

If you actually - legally - bought a House in Thailand, why do you think you have a right to ask another "owner / manager" to pay for repairs to your Property 2 years after you bought it?

Makes no sense.

Patrick

[a2396]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

You mean your wife bought the house. As you are aware, you have no legal interest in it.

[LennyW]

I think i am missing something here, obviously the OP's first language is not English, but you say you only have "land", but if you, your wife, company or whatever have a Chanote for that land, then surely you own the house that sits on it too???

Do you have a blue house registration book for the "property"??

[Maizefarmer]

What exactly do you mean by "owner" - who owns the house - how is it owned - where are the house reg papers/blue book? - and while about it, check out 2 more things:

1) whats the status of the land the house is on i.e. is it land that can be used for residential housing construction?

2) was planning permission applied for (even if turned down, there will be a record of the application).

.... Baht 7 000 000 er...?? - and you didn't do your homework!

[kimincm]

What exactly do you mean by "owner" - who owns the house - how is it owned - where are the house reg papers/blue book? - and while about it, check out 2 more things:

1) whats the status of the land the house is on i.e. is it land that can be used for residential housing construction?

2) was planning permission applied for (even if turned down, there will be a record of the application).

.... Baht 7 000 000 er...?? - and you didn't do your homework!

I can see the bride was a big help,you only own the land,I think you have this arse about.Sorry can't see you getting much sympathy here.

[Socket]

I can see the bride was a big help,you only own the land,I think you have this arse about.Sorry can't see you getting much sympathy here.

First of all I must ask you kimincm where you get off writing a post like that,I've only been a member a few days and I can't believe some of the pathetic flaming that goes on here.This site does not need people like you.You're obviously one of the many people I've come across on here who get some sort of satisfaction from the misfortune of others.......sad.

The OP is asking for help and advice,and although I'm not able to answer the problems,there seems to be a few members here that are putting good relevant questions,which need to be addressed,

I'm also confused why you(OP) are expecting the guy that you paid for your house to be liable for the repairs after 2 years.Are you and the other owners paying some sort of yearly maintenance charge for someone to take care of communal areas,even so this cannot include maintenance to all the properties......can it???

It's easy for anyone to say you didn't do your homework.....but 400 others owners didn't do it either???,something just isn't right here,to pull the wool over one owners eyes is doable but is it doable on 400 other owners???

If I take anything from this, it will be to learn what you maybe should of done thru the discussion in this thread,coz we are all not as clued up as we'd like to think we are.

@ everyone that has had something constructive to say......I look forward to learning more from you.

Thanks

[scorecard]

I agree, the fellow member needs advice, not flaming.

There's one negative comment about his wife not knowing, etc. Well how many Thais and people in any country in all walks of life are knowledgable about the law, let alone laws about houses and land? Not many.

In fact my Thai adult son bought a house and land in a province near Bangkok and he did his homework very carefully and the bank did their normal investigation about land ownership, approval to sub-divide the land, building approvals etc., and everything looked fine.

Turns out the developer sub-contracted the actual work, now only two of four bathrooms can be used. If other two are used the waste water flows down the interior walls of the next house. Repairs would be major. Sub-contractor cannot be found, original developer denies all responsibilitiy and has warned my son to 'shut up'.

What's even more annoying I gave the sub-contractor a 10,000Baht gift at the start of the work with a promise of another 10,000 if the work was extra high quality. He disappeared just before the work was completed.

I've heard before that there's both govt and non-governement Consumers Affairs Offices (not sure if that's the exactly correct name) and that they are helpful and have handled many cases about land and houses, especially in regard to housing developers. But I'm sorry I don't have addresses or telephone numbers.

I would agree you need to be careful, this industry has plenty of rogues who wouldn't hesitate to quickly take some revenge.

[lioness]

You mean your wife bought the house. As you are aware, you have no legal interest in it.

I can't quite work out why you are contradicting the OP, unless you know more about his business than he does. He said My wife and I bought a house.

A foreigner can indeed legally own a house, so why would he have no legal interest in it? or is this another contradiction. And before you jump to more any more, I said house, not land.

[BiggyD]

Not so unusual as you may think. If the house was purchased as a new build the important thing is that you have the building permission papers for the property on the land. As LennyW states the house is yours as long as it is sited on the title deed you hold. If it has been registered by the authorities properly then you have no issue. When you re-sell the property then you will have to declare the home at the local land office and show the floor plans etc so they can set a value for transfer fees. Many people who purchase land and then apply for building permission and build their homes never have a house registered on the actual title deed until they decide to sell....... Don't worry too much I don't think you've been cheated totally just not fully informed.

[givenall]

You ill informed sucker,I can see the bride was a big help,you only own the land,I think you have this arse about.Sorry can't see you getting much sympathy here.

First of all I must ask you kimincm where you get off writing a post like that,I've only been a member a few days and I can't believe some of the pathetic flaming that goes on here.This site does not need people like you.You're obviously one of the many people I've come across on here who get some sort of satisfaction from the misfortune of others.......sad.

The OP is asking for help and advice,and although I'm not able to answer the problems,there seems to be a few members here that are putting good relevant questions,which need to be addressed,

I'm also confused why you(OP) are expecting the guy that you paid for your house to be liable for the repairs after 2 years.Are you and the other owners paying some sort of yearly maintenance charge for someone to take care of communal areas,even so this cannot include maintenance to all the properties......can it???

It's easy for anyone to say you didn't do your homework.....but 400 others owners didn't do it either???,something just isn't right here,to pull the wool over one owners eyes is doable but is it doable on 400 other owners???

If I take anything from this, it will be to learn what you maybe should of done thru the discussion in this thread,coz we are all not as clued up as we'd like to think we are.

@ everyone that has had something constructive to say......I look forward to learning more from you.

Thanks

We also bought a house but in my wife’s name from a company. They gave us 3 years warranty for defective parts and workmanship. May be he (op) also was promised 3 years warranty

[Oberkommando]

A foreigner can indeed legally own a house.

Like owning a car without wheels, or a plane without wings.

[isanb]

A foreigner can indeed legally own a house

Welcome in the twilight zone

[ozzieovaseas]

My sympathy to you mate..

I'd hate to be in a situation like you are and then have to put up with all the insults directed at you on here.

After all, it is by your grace that we ALL learn from hearing these stories and have the opportunity to learn from each others mistakes.

O.P may be may not be ill-informed or mistaken or whatever the case may be BUT Good on him for sharing his story...

It takes guts to admit and air the things that have caused us distress in our lives..

have a think about it..

Im sorry i am not qualified to offer advice but good luck to you anyway,hope your mind is put at rest eventually.

[sassienie]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

I don’t think you have any problems.

My family and I purchased 150 wah of land near Chom Thong in Chiang Mai 3 years ago.

We had a large 3 bedroom bungalow built on the land. No planning permission was required but we built within the correct distances from our neighbours bordering lands as imposed by Thai law.

All the property is in our daughter’s name.

The house does not appear in the land papers, but this is not a problem as obviously if we ever decided to sell, the price of the land must include the house as well.

I believe that adding a house onto the house papers can be amended later on. Check with your local land office.

If there is a manager for the property, does this mean that you own this house as leasehold, rather than a freehold? You were not clear on that.

If this is leasehold, than you should check about repairs and who pays under the terms of the lease.

[thaiwanderer]

2 years is perhaps a little late to be checking if you have legal title but thats the position the OP is in.

Depending on the circumstances requiring the developer to repair may not at all be unreasonable.

Whilst ownership of the house can be recorded by the land office and is the best option it is not the only option (though the others are lazy - why not regsiter at the land office?). However those that say merely owning the land means there is no problem with ownership of the house and or the legality of it having been built in the first place are incorrect.

Does the OP even have the building permit and or any other documents proving ownership of the house? from what he has said its doubtful.

It appears but is not 100% clear that the OP (his wife, company or whatever) are the registered owners of the land - that he mentions all 400 being the same baan is worrying.

That he was unaware of thh problem at thh time of the purchase, the bank appear to be linked to the developer, there are plainly issues with the whole development, the lawyer he asked does not now want to get involved, unfortunately means its time to pay a decent lawyer to review the whole thing and be prepared for unwelcome news. But better to find out for himself now than be confronted with it later.

Best of luck.

[mbox]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

Hi Manse,

Sorry about your problems. Assuming that this is not some miscommunication i would approach some differnet legal advisors. This one i have infrequently been in contact with and always had good and professional advise: http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/

(they are also forum sponsors)

hope that helps,

mbox

[Naam]

A foreigner can indeed legally own a house.

Like owning a car without wheels, or a plane without wings.

or an Oberkommando who can't afford a house.

[manse]

I am very sorry, but I can see that there have been some confusing on my topic; sorry for that and the reason for that is, that English not is my first language.

As said on my first topic.

1. The manager/owner of all this hugged land has sold 400 houses to different people.

2. The manager has said before selling the house to people, that if they have to borrow some money from a bank, for the payment of the house. Only one bank can be used.

3. Manager/owner have been giving my wife (if some like this better) 2. Years warranty on the house, and the complaint was made before the 2. Years.

4. The house has been insured in that bank, who borrowed my wife some money for down payment.

5. The manager/owner will not fulfill his contract for the 2. Years warranty.

6. No one of the already sold houses have papers saying that they own a house, but they own the land the house is build on, etc.

Sorry guys that I made all this confusing, and okay I am the only one to blame for that, but what is happening here is, that someone manager/owner is cheating the government for tax payment, and us for the real value of my wife’s investment.

Which I, as thousand of other farangs have done, paid for.

What my real reason was, that I know my wife own the house etc, but the selling part have done something wrong with the paperwork, so the guaranty now is a peace of paper, you minus well could use as toilet paper, because my wife can’t use it, for reason she do not have a house, so if you will buy a house out here (wife) look out for all the cheating people.

They are not cheating you so much, just for this 2 years guaranty????, which will cost my wife around 800.000.- baht for fixing the house to the standard she paid for, when she bought the house, but I can understand from some of the replies, that is normal.

As one said, on one of the answers. I should not be here, because I am not good for a site like this, about telling the truth on the real life out here. Sorry for that this I will consider.

Thanks to you all, for the answer, and once again sorry for posting something on the site, without writing proper English, and that’s why misunderstandings can occur.

[manse]

Sorry guys

I can see I am a looser, and as a farang I will always be.

My wife just came back to day and said, that this guy who have been cheating more than 1000 people. He have more than 200 mill. Baht in the bank, so he will be paying everyone off to let you down.

What have been happening is, that this person Manager/owner have been taking over my lawyer this way, that my lawyer need money for something, and now he have got a loan in the manager/owners bank with a special interest rate.,. so what I just want to say to all. Never trust the system if you do not have enough money for pay off.

I am very sad, not because of the house, but because someone with connection into this Thailand system, is using it this way, because he have so much money, that he give a dam_n of you or every one else who want to make a complaint on his business.

He pay everyone off, and you as a farang do not have a chance, So if you want to buy a house out here. You have to make sure that the paperwork for house and land is okay, and you have to make sure that your guaranty is sign by officials, because everyone making this kind off business they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Sorry guys. I have my house, and I will still make the changes for repair, but I do not think that is fair, because I had a 2 years signed guaranty by the manager, but someone is using the system different… money….

I love my house, and will always do, but my concern is, that my wife and I is going to be the looser in this case, because someone know more people that this poor farangs doooooo. That is pissing me offff.

Life is not always easy, but as long your is happy, forget about complaint, because it is to expensive just to be n farang married out here.

[katabeachbum]

hey manse

1. Do you have a land title. Large yellow legal document, thick paper, with the landplot drawn up. What is the last name on the backpage and the second last name on the backpage?

2. Do you have a buildingpermit, if so in whos name?

3. Do you have a Tabien Baan, thats a small blue householdbook?

4. is you electicity bill from electric authorities or from project?

5. Phonebill?

If you reply to this I may guide you through what kind of ownership you have.

Good luck

Edit Does your house have a housenumber? Does any house outside the project have a housenumber?

Edited July 13, 2009 by katabeachbum

[stgrhe]

hey manse

1. Do you have a land title. Large yellow legal document, thick paper, with the landplot drawn up. What is the last name on the backpage and the second last name on the backpage?

2. Do you have a buildingpermit, if so in whos name?

3. Do you have a Tabien Baan, thats a small blue householdbook?

4. is you electicity bill from electric authorities or from project?

5. Phonebill?

If you reply to this I may guide you through what kind of ownership you have.

Good luck

Edit Does your house have a housenumber? Does any house outside the project have a housenumber?

The above is a good check list, but check also the colour of the garuda (the insignia) on the land title document. If it is red then the title is a chanote, if it is green it is nor sor sam ghor. Both of these titles are good whereas others have restrictions. Actually the only difference between a chanote and a nor sor sam ghor is that the former has been surveyed by gps. Also check the back side thoroughly as it shows the name of the land owner and whether there are any restrictions to the title.

With regards to the building permit it is perfectly legal to commence work on the house construction prior to have the permit. However, the law stipulates that you should have a building permit before the roof is constructed.

[getgoin]

Not so unusual as you may think. If the house was purchased as a new build the important thing is that you have the building permission papers for the property on the land. As LennyW states the house is yours as long as it is sited on the title deed you hold. If it has been registered by the authorities properly then you have no issue. When you re-sell the property then you will have to declare the home at the local land office and show the floor plans etc so they can set a value for transfer fees. Many people who purchase land and then apply for building permission and build their homes never have a house registered on the actual title deed until they decide to sell....... Don't worry too much I don't think you've been cheated totally just not fully informed.

I agree. There is no title to the building, only the chanote for the land. Even if there were no proper building permits it can be worked out.

[BAZZAT]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

Yes i have heard of this as well, what has happened supposingly the Builders have not had the plans certified by the local planning dept so they have no record of the structure being built, which in some ways works in the builders favor as he can erect these properties un-supervised by the local planning dept,downside is should you wish to sell this property the potential owner cannot get a morgage or you cannot borrow from the bank against this property the real downside for you is the local planning dept cannot issue you a house or road name and the worse side is they can make you demolish it

[BAZZAT]

My wife and I bought an house almost 2 years ago, but as always something is coming up for repai.

When we contacted the owner/manager to get this damages repaired, we got this answer that, if there was something to be repaired, then we would have to pay ourselfes.

Since I do not want to find myself in something like this, we put a lawyer, and now comes the fun. We found out that we have no house registered only land, so that our dream house which cost 7,000,000 .- Baht, is only land, because the house do not exist.

We have now drilled further into it and it proves that he, with all those ground. 400 houses now listed, there is no papaers paper on the house but everyone has just land papers, and all is using the same bann, because if they do not do, he will not sell the land and house.

It turns out also that all who have had to borrow at a bank, to realize their dreames, yes everyone has used the same bank, instructed by the owner, and no other could be used if people would buy.

It surprised me somewhat, because this bank has insured our house and furniture without any problems?? but I find it hard to understand how, when there is no house.

Our attorney have now backed out of the case, because he says it is a bit serious for him, the owner, so he did not want to continue this with big problems to follow.

Are there others on this forum, who will advise what we should do, because everything stinks to high heaven of fraud, not for us but from this owner of all this land.

Yes i have heard of this as well, what has happened supposingly the Builders have not had the plans certified by the local planning dept so they have no record of the structure being built, which in some ways works in the builders favor as he can erect these properties un-supervised by the local planning dept,downside is should you wish to sell this property the potential owner cannot get a morgage or you cannot borrow from the bank against this property the real downside for you is the local planning dept cannot issue you a house or road name and the worse side is they can make you demolish it

To add to this is this isolated case or is the whole estate in the same predicament?