Swede Wanted For Pattaya Murder

[HenryP]

Banned from the forum?

To this; knock yourself out.

If you start to ban the people with unconventional or controversial (although just possibly 'correct') views, then you're left with a forum fill of sheep who say things like, "string him up", 'cut off his balls', and 'all men who sleep with 'ladies' under 18 are pedophiles (another thread)... 

Get out the shears.

Not manslaughter?

My major is criminology; this means that I can be wrong. But probably less wrong than people who majored in something esle. Or worked 30 years in a dull job and are pensioned out in Thailand.

It's all conjecture at this point, but look at the mans story.

Seems she started to scream whilst they were in the shower together ,he was high on amphetamines, she shoved him ,he showed back, she fell through a glass door & then took a piece of glass and stabbed him in the foot.He then panicked and tried to quiet her down by banging her head on the floor ????

According to him, he as physically assaulted first. His response may have been inappropriate but I wouldn't doubt that he didn't intend for her to go through a glass dorr.

Then she attacked him with a weapon, i.e. a piece of glass.

The he lost the plot.

He states he was on drugs; she probably was too. (birds of the feather and all that).

So, this looks not to be a premeditated attack; that would rule out a type of first degree murder (which is almost impossile to prove; I talked to a hitman who basically told me that if they can't prove 1st they probably can't prove second, and he just copped to manslaughter in a plea bargain. Yes he killed someone. Yes he did time for [i[ that one[/].

It also looks to not even be planned. 2nd degree is therefore out.

It actually looks like a totally unplanned homicide. The result of situation/drugs/high emotion/poor decisions, etc.

This falls squarely within the definition of manslaughter in most places.

And the fact that he planned to dispose of the body does not influence the gacts of the murder. It would, however, have an effect on the length of his sentence.

For the day that you 'accidentally' kill someone in the heat of the moment, this posts nuggest of free advice is to turn yourself in; you've taken a like; you'll most likely be caught; don't aggravate the situation; your situation. don't compound the suffering of your victims family; at least come clean to them and allow them closure...

However, if you're in a country with a corrupt, inefficient, and ill-defined rule of law...run like ######.

Especially if you're in a country where the majority of expats, usually the highest common denominator outside of the west at least...say things like ummm, "string him up". Duh. Cut off his balls. He should be someones bitch inside.

The people who should be banned, if anyone.

My position is a result of my having to flee Thailand?

Laughable and contemptible.

I pick the former as I 'know' and quite like Heng; but his views are easily as slanted as mine.

I left by choice. I was already making more than quite a few teachers. But I wanted more for my family so opted out of the Thai (non)system for awhile to get greater cushion.

In any case, let's call myself a total loser who flopped out of Thailand.

But even then the whole scenario reeks fo one walking up to a blind guy, having a disagreement bout something, and then calling him a blind f.o.k who can't see the facts because he's got no sight...and broadcasting it to everyone.

Not that it had anything to do with the blind foks position in any case.

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really dont know that much about criminal law, except what I learned in law school, but I am certain that I know more than you. Manslaughter at best??? No, manslaughter would highly likely be the absolute least. You seem to be basing your opinion that manslaughter would be the likely charge/conviction on the testimony of the Swedish defendant. If you went to school to get a criminology degree, they would have told you that the jury is the finder of fact, not the defendant, heck you might have even learned that criminal defendants often lie about the details surrounding the case to mitigate/eliminate culpability.

First degree murder does not necessarily have to be pre-motivated. Assuming that the defendant's story is completely true It could have started off as a potential manslaughter case, but injuries resulting from repeated blows or multiple sources of injuries (in this case a knife, and his hands) would go to any decent prosecutor's argument that the defendant although at some point possibly defending himself, did not cease using deadly force once the threat was eliminated. His actions following the incident would also strongly go to his culpability for commiting 1st degree murder. All you need for 1st degree murder is for the defendant to be willful and conscious of his actions prior to commiting them. The thinking of the act can be 2 seconds before the blow that killed her. He would be better off with the almost equally laughable claim of insanity over your brilliant idea of manslaughter.

Well you said you majored in criminology, that doesnt really mean all that much, since it neither indicates that you graduated with a degree, nor that you even went for a full semester. I guess since I was a pre-med major, I could practically consider myself a doctor

If you want, I can teach you the elements of manslaughter sherlock.

[Heng]

Would be interesting to hear IA's comeback to that one. That's the thing with falang debates in Thailand. One never knows when someone else has had one more college credit or mail in course than you. You did major AND graduate, right, Alex?

[IsaanAlex]

Manslaughter at best??? No, manslaughter would highly likely be the absolute least.

A true lawyer; good job to not let my intended and pretty clear meaning get in the way of your criticisms.

I'm pretty musc saying is the guys story went to trial in Canada; with not too mnay gaping holes in it and a good lawyer I doubt he'd get done for more than manslaughter.

You seem to be basing your opinion that manslaughter would be the likely charge/conviction on the testimony of the Swedish defendant. If you went to school to get a criminology degree, they would have told you that the jury is the finder of fact, not the defendant, heck you might have even learned that criminal defendants often lie about the details surrounding the case to mitigate/eliminate culpability.

Thanks for that; I'm sure you cleared it up for others.

I've said all along if things happened at he said they did that, with a good lawyer, and in a western country, he'd probably get convicted of manslaughter.

With a very good lawyer he might get off altogether.

egree murder does not necessarily have to be pre-motivated. Assuming that the defendant's story is completely true  It could have started off as a potential manslaughter case, but injuries resulting from repeated blows or multiple sources of injuries (in this case a knife, and his hands) would go to any decent prosecutor's argument that the defendant although at some point possibly defending himself, did not cease using deadly force once the threat was eliminated. His actions following the incident would also strongly go to his culpability for commiting 1st degree murder. All you need for 1st degree murder is for the defendant to be willful and conscious of his actions prior to commiting them. The thinking of the act can be 2 seconds before the blow that killed her. He would be better off with the almost equally laughable claim of insanity over your brilliant idea of manslaughter.

It's good to know that one can be a lawyer and a few. I've studied more than one manslaughter case and thisd one fits the bill.

You're talking theory and I'm talking reality.

you said you majored in criminology, that doesnt really mean all that much, since it neither indicates that you graduated with a degree, nor that you even went for a full semester. I guess since I was a pre-med major, I could practically consider myself a doctor 

If you want, I can teach you the elements of manslaughter sherlock.

Yawn.

I have great lawyers.

I don't need you.

[IsaanAlex]

Would be interesting to hear IA's comeback to that one. That's the thing with falang debates in Thailand. One never knows when someone else has had one more college credit or mail in course than you. You did major AND graduate, right, Alex?

My 'comeback's above Heng.

We were typing at the same time.

And I've never considered it a case of I've got a bigger cock than anyone else on this one. I very clearly stated that the man shouldn' ge srunbg up without all of the facts being looked ar first.

I also very clearly stated that since I have a Crim degree (Yes, 4 years and accepted to Indiana State for their Master's) that I'm probably going to be less wrong than someone who didn't major in Crim, or...

It also means that I should be more wrong than someone with a law degree. BUT, someone talking straight theory versus my talking reality isn't worth much.

Their opinion is even less directly polar to mine if they went to law school outside of Canada. This is the law I *generally speaking* am familiar with.

And I know ###### well what it takes to get off manslaughter charges, or have murder charges pled down to manslaughter charges,...in the real world.

Screw the theory when it's just you, a pocket-full of cash and a sharp lawyer.

And this clown said he went to law school; I'd like to say that 'law school' has churned out many crap lawyers; and if not crappy, at least ill-mannered, ....he is, IMHO, for jumping into a thread taking a high and haughty position against someone (myself) who has, as a main point only advocated that some guy doesn't get strung up without due consideration.

IA

[Pattaya_Fox]

Would be interesting to hear IA's comeback to that one. That's the thing with falang debates in Thailand. One never knows when someone else has had one more college credit or mail in course than you. You did major AND graduate, right, Alex?

My 'comeback's above Heng.

We were typing at the same time.

And I've never considered it a case of I've got a bigger cock than anyone else on this one. I very clearly stated that the man shouldn' ge srunbg up without all of the facts being looked ar first.

I also very clearly stated that since I have a Crim degree (Yes, 4 years and accepted to Indiana State for their Master's) that I'm probably going to be less wrong than someone who didn't major in Crim, or...

It also means that I should be more wrong than someone with a law degree. BUT, someone talking straight theory versus my talking reality isn't worth much.

Their opinion is even less directly polar to mine if they went to law school outside of Canada. This is the law I *generally speaking* am familiar with.

And I know ###### well what it takes to get off manslaughter charges, or have murder charges pled down to manslaughter charges,...in the real world.

Screw the theory when it's just you, a pocket-full of cash and a sharp lawyer.

And this clown said he went to law school; I'd like to say that 'law school' has churned out many crap lawyers; and if not crappy, at least ill-mannered, ....he is, IMHO, for jumping into a thread taking a high and haughty position against someone (myself) who has, as a main point only advocated that some guy doesn't get strung up without due consideration.

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

......he`ll get due consideration he`s going to be tried....

[sriracha john]

The Swede is beginning to sound like a victim.

I think in actual fact he is both victimiser and a victim. Probably the former more than the latter, but nevertheless; I really don't know that he needs to be (pre-)judged as harshly as he has been...

While deciding if he is a "victim" or not, perhaps some update is in order:

He arrived at Pattaya Police Station and took part in a dramatic reconstruction of the alleged murder. The reconstruction begun at room number 501 of the Sawasdee Mansion Hotel. He showed Police and the gathered media how be begun his brutal attack on the woman who is still unidentified. He continued the attack next to the bed and eventually killed the woman through a combination of stab wounds and a major trauma to the head. At this point he wrapped the body in black bin liners and placed the body inside a black sports bag which he had earlier purchased from a local shop. The bag was too heavy to carry so he dragged the bag through reception and onto the street. He walked along a nearby street and came to a high wall with wasteland on the other side. He summoned the assistance of another man who was unaware of the situation and the fact that a body was inside the bag. Together the pair threw the bag over the wall and Mr. Eriksson then hid the bag under a tree where it was discovered 5 days later by passers-by. Mr. Eriksson will be charged with first degree murder and is now behind bars awaiting a court appearance.

yep... he's a real "victim"

[IsaanAlex]

yep... he's a real "victim" 

Well. Let's not take it too literally. I would say that a person who is pushed and stabbed with something and then overreacts and kills someone is a

'victim' to a certain extent.

With many, they can simply be a victim of their own stupidity. Really, if you want to mess around with ho's and do drugs and live a certain lifestyle, especially in Thailand...there's only a few ways you end up.

And remember that many of my comments only reflect my opinion at any given point in time; and I can't work with information I haven't got; such as the fact that he ran her down and stabbed her with a knife.

My initial theory might have been that she attacked him with a knife and got it turned on her; fair enough.

Then I read she pushed him and he pushed back. She went through a glass door and then attacked him and stabbed him with broken glass; my thinking was that then and there he smashed her head in, in a flurry and in anger.

I thought at that point that any cuts to her body were as a result of her going through the glass door....

In any case, whether I'm right or wrong I can't imagine I'm anymore wrong than the people whi immediately squeeled that he should be strung up, etc, etc.

Plenty of time for that.

Now he (yes even him, at least if one expects the same consideration should they one day be accused of something),... and the Thai lady's family deserve for the whole thing to be hashed out and weighed.

And I heard a great story that can serve as a great caution for those that want to summarily string people up.

My buddy just told me a story about how people are routinely beaten down and often killed by mobs in Cambodia for stealing motorcycles; do whatever else you want, but don't....f.uck..with..their...motorcycles.

Anyways, he relayed the story of how one man was riding away from a house on a motorcycle and a lady came out screaming that he was a motorcycle theif.

So a mob chased him down and killed him. Imagine that.

Now the facts;

The man wasn't a motorcycle theif; he was the husband of the lady that ran out screaming. She'd caught him getting a bj from some other lady.

And another story from an older teacher that I knew that taught all over the world, including in parts of Africa where they cut off hands for stealing.

He told me about a racket where very well-dressed criminals would walk up to a person and extort money; on the spot.

Their threat; pay up or we'll say that you stole from us.

There are lessons here, hehe...

IA

[Pattaya_Fox]

yep... he's a real "victim" 

Well. Let's not take it too literally. I would say that a person who is pushed and stabbed with something and then overreacts and kills someone is a

'victim' to a certain extent.

With many, they can simply be a victim of their own stupidity. Really, if you want to mess around with ho's and do drugs and live a certain lifestyle, especially in Thailand...there's only a few ways you end up.

And remember that many of my comments only reflect my opinion at any given point in time; and I can't work with information I haven't got; such as the fact that he ran her down and stabbed her with a knife.

My initial theory might have been that she attacked him with a knife and got it turned on her; fair enough.

Then I read she pushed him and he pushed back. She went through a glass door and then attacked him and stabbed him with broken glass; my thinking was that then and there he smashed her head in, in a flurry and in anger.

I thought at that point that any cuts to her body were as a result of her going through the glass door....

In any case, whether I'm right or wrong I can't imagine I'm anymore wrong than the people whi immediately squeeled that he should be strung up, etc, etc.

Plenty of time for that.

Now he (yes even him, at least if one expects the same consideration should they one day be accused of something),... and the Thai lady's family deserve for the whole thing to be hashed out and weighed.

And I heard a great story that can serve as a great caution for those that want to summarily string people up.

My buddy just told me a story about how people are routinely beaten down and often killed by mobs in Cambodia for stealing motorcycles; do whatever else you want, but don't....f.uck..with..their...motorcycles.

Anyways, he relayed the story of how one man was riding away from a house on a motorcycle and a lady came out screaming that he was a motorcycle theif.

So a mob chased him down and killed him. Imagine that.

Now the facts;

The man wasn't a motorcycle theif; he was the husband of the lady that ran out screaming. She'd caught him getting a bj from some other lady.

And another story from an older teacher that I knew that taught all over the world, including in parts of Africa where they cut off hands for stealing.

He told me about a racket where very well-dressed criminals would walk up to a person and extort money; on the spot.

Their threat; pay up or we'll say that you stole from us.

There are lessons here, hehe...

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your stories.....but the only lesson here is that the Swede killed the woman and the people in your stories are about mob rule.....

[Lars]

Latest update about mr Eriksson in swedish press reports about his stay in Nhongplalay jail in Pattaya, saying that he got pretty bad beaten his first night there. Friends of the murdered woman are in that same jail and several of them beat him up and took the few belongings he had. The jail is said to have "more than 1000 prisoners held under tough conditions". Another swede who was in that jail the first couple of days with Eriksson but is now released on bail says that it's difficult to talk to Eriksson; "He's only crying and talking about committing suicide".

Link to the article:http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=251035

[Pattaya_Fox]

Latest update about mr Eriksson in swedish press reports about his stay in Nhongplalay jail in Pattaya, saying that he got pretty bad beaten his first night there. Friends of the murdered woman are in that same jail and several of them beat him up and took the few belongings he had. The jail is said to have "more than 1000 prisoners held under tough conditions". Another swede who was in that jail the first couple of days with Eriksson but is now released on bail says that it's difficult to talk to Eriksson; "He's only crying and talking about committing suicide".

Link to the article:http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=251035

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...well that`s one way out....

[IsaanAlex]

Pattaya Fox wrote

but the only lesson here is that the Swede killed the woman and the people in your stories are about mob rule.....

In respectfully disagree.

There are lessons found in each of the stories and they can arguably be related to this situation and the way that many forum members immediately started advocating that the Swede be strung up.

With what we know know, possibly he should be; but it wasn't clearly apparent from the outset.

People who are willing to take the Thai police's (initial) accusations at face value might, with sloppier thinking, and in different life circumstances, be running down and stomping 'motorcycle' thieves in Cambodia, hehe.

Lars wrote

Friends of the murdered woman are in that same jail...

Birds of a feather and all that.

One day the bitch is fighting with everyone in her neighborhood, the next she is dead. One day the hero of our story kills a Thai lady; the next he is getting stomped by her friends in jail.

This is often how it works all around the world; one day the predator; the next day the victim. Repeat.

Most of the people at this level are muddying the same pond and it's often just a matter of who checks out first.

Since you love stories...

Many police departments actually clear homicides but are unable to charge the killer. That is because they soon get dispatched by friends, relatives or fellow gang/clique members.

And again. Repeat.

And yes, there is a great comfort in knowing that we all have an easy way out if we find ourselves in the shit.

IA

[hopeless]

where did my post go?! ???

[IsaanAlex]

You really are 'hopeless', aren't you?

Be sure next time to hit the 'Add Reply' botton; and don't use naughty words like '&lt;deleted&gt;'.

Mods don't like it!

IA

[sriracha john]

where did my post go?!  ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure, but if you provide a full description of it, perhaps the Farang Volunteer Police can locate it through an all points bulletin (APB).

[marquess]

Friends of the murdered woman are in that same jail [/i]

I thought that the latest information, is that deceased has yet to be identified? Who then are these so called "friends"?. Could someone better versed in these matters than I, give us a perspective as to whether this would be murder or manslaughter under English Law

[patricktan]

Who is this farang, is he insane? Poor girls. Wrong place at the wrong time.

[StateSix]

I thought that the latest information, is that deceased has yet to be identified? Who then are these so called "friends"?. Could someone better versed in these matters than I, give us a perspective as to whether this would be murder or manslaughter under English Law

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

English law says that murder has to be pre-meditated ie some sort of thought has gone into it.

I have only briefly read the last few page or so but from what I have read it appears that there has been some sort of an argument in the shower and she has pushed him. He then pushed her back causing her to fall through the glass door. If this caused her death he would be facing a manslaughter charge as there would have been no intention to kill her, yet she died as a direct result of his actions. It would then be for the jury to decide whether his actions were justified ie was he using reasonable force to defend himself and is it reasonable to expect that death could result from that action. If not then he would be not guilty.

However if the fall through the glass door did not kill her and he then panicked and stabbed her he would be facing a charge of murder as he has formed the intention to kill her.

Other theories such as she attacked him with a knife or a piece of glass and he turned it on her would probably lead to a manslaughter charge. He would then have to argue self defence before a jury.

He would almost certainly face charges under English law with regards to disposing of the body and failing to report the death etc.

It would all come down to forensics such as where the stab wounds are on the body, angle of entry, number of wounds and what he says under interview.

[maerim]

causing her to fall through the glass door.

In my opinion the owners of the hotel should be charged as well.

What sort of dump uses ordinary glass in doors etc. ?

If they had done what they should have the worst she would have is a bump on her head if they used laminated glass or if safety glass she would have been unable to stab anyone with a small piece of shattered glass.

[geo]

causing her to fall through the glass door.

In my opinion the owners of the hotel should be charged as well.

What sort of dump uses ordinary glass in doors etc. ?

If they had done what they should have the worst she would have is a bump on her head if they used laminated glass or if safety glass she would have been unable to stab anyone with a small piece of shattered glass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^ Almost every place I have ever stayed in Thailand including my home has plate glass windows. Ever tried to buy safety glass here in the LOS?

[maerim]

Almost every place I have ever stayed in Thailand including my home has plate glass windows.

Are you sure about that?

There is a big difference in the manufacture of plate glass and ordinary float glass and also in the price.

[meadish_sweetball]

Who is this farang, is he insane? Poor girls. Wrong place at the wrong time.  

Not sure if he's insane, but he definitely seems to have severe problems - amphetamine abuse, violent nature, too much drinking, running away from his debts (in Sweden)... etc.

And yeah, he used to be an ice hockey player as well.

[geo]

Almost every place I have ever stayed in Thailand including my home has plate glass windows.

Are you sure about that?

There is a big difference in the manufacture of plate glass and ordinary float glass and also in the price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are probably correct. I do not know the specifics. However, I do know that the majority of what I see is not safety glass...

[patricktan]

Who is this farang, is he insane? Poor girls. Wrong place at the wrong time.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if he's insane, but he definitely seems to have severe problems - amphetamine abuse, violent nature, too much drinking, running away from his debts (in Sweden)... etc.

And yeah, he used to be an ice hockey player as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know he used to be an ice hockey player? Have you ever play with him before....are you one of them ......just joking......he used to be a referry.

[snowleopard]

Who is this farang, is he insane? Poor girls. Wrong place at the wrong time.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if he's insane, but he definitely seems to have severe problems - amphetamine abuse, violent nature, too much drinking, running away from his debts (in Sweden)... etc.

And yeah, he used to be an ice hockey player as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know he used to be an ice hockey player? Have you ever play with him before....are you one of them ......just joking......he used to be a referry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He had been a talented hockey forward before he became a referee.

After ice hockey he embarked on three successive careers_ first becoming a thief,then a 'soldier of fortune' and now a murderer of civilians.

[Zarkow]

How do you know he used to be an ice hockey player? Have you ever play with him before....are you one of them ......just joking......he used to be a referry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Acctually, both.

But since meadish_sweetball is Swedish ( = swedish_meetball), along with a couple of us others, we have read most of this guys story in the press. They ran intervjues and full resumés of him.

[snowleopard]

Who is this farang, is he insane? Poor girls. Wrong place at the wrong time.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if he's insane, but he definitely seems to have severe problems - amphetamine abuse, violent nature, too much drinking, running away from his debts (in Sweden)... etc.

And yeah, he used to be an ice hockey player as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know he used to be an ice hockey player? Have you ever play with him before....are you one of them ......just joking......he used to be a referry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He had been a talented hockey forward before he became a referee.

After ice hockey he embarked on three successive careers_ first becoming a thief,then a 'soldier of fortune' and now a murderer of civilians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think he's out on bail now.

His old man paid the bond and he's hanging around at a guesthouse somewhere in the 'Big Mango'

He promised to pay back his dad because he's an honest son!

Snowleopard

[Jai Dee]

Update:

Swede in Thailand at risk for death penalty

A Swedish man in his forties who was convicted of manslaughter in the killing of a female prostitute in Thailand in 2005 may soon be facing death penalty.

Kenneth Eriksson, a native of Kramfors in northern Sweden, was sentenced in 2006 to five years in prison for the killing.

But prosecutors have appealed the ruling and are now seeking the death penalty.

Prosecutors want Eriksson to be convicted for premeditated murder, according to the Allehanda newspaper.

Eriksson has been awaiting a new trial for two years and has written to Sweden’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs for help.

“The prison I’m sitting in is, according to others, probably the worst in Thailand. I’m not being subjected to physical violence, but mentally it’s tough to be here,” Eriksson wrote in a letter to Sweden.

He was convicted for having assaulted a woman to death in a hotel room in Pattaya.

Following the deadly assault, Eriksson then hid the woman’s body in a trunk which he then dragged out of the hotel and dumped in a field not far from the hotel.

He then checked out, but hotel security cameras had already captured images of him taking the victim out of the building.

Police in Thailand launched a manhunt for Eriksson, who eventually confessed and was arrested.

Source: The Local - 14 January 2009

[sriracha john]

Thanks for going down into the basement archives to update this one, Jai Dee.

I perused the thread and found no published photos of the victim nor her accused murderer, so....

The victim, Chompoonut "Jeab" Kobram (right), 23:

Her accused murderer, Kenneth Eriksson, 40:

Edited January 14, 2009 by sriracha john

[TAWP]

It wasn't premeditated, that requires planning and clear intent.

[FatherF]

It wasn't premeditated, that requires planning and clear intent.

How do you know it wasn't premeditated?