Teaching Illegally

[maxcherry]

I have been reading posts on here and elsewhere and have a couple of questions which I hope someone can answer.

1 - If you teach illegally surely the authorities would come down on you if they found out. Do they?

2 - What are the pros and cons of teaching illegally.

Thanks in advance

[george]

You need a work permit and a teacher's license. If you get catched working illegally it's usually a fine, detention and deportation.

Ask the school to arrange the paperwork for you. Basically you will need a Non-Immigrant visa to start the process.

[PeaceBlondie]

George is right, of course. Except that it appears maybe possibly you don't need a teacher's license at a government school, perhaps.

Enforcement of the laws in Thailand aren't uniform, but they can be harsh.

Ask the school, as George says. But they may not get you the paperwork. Many schools will lie and make false promises because they're too lazy or ignorant to do the paperwork.

If you're coming from overseas, you'll need that non-immigrant visa, but of course you probably won't be employed yet. And even if you get that visa, you'll almost certainly start working without the license or the work permit.

Numerous qualified Western teachers teach in Thailand for two years or more and have never been able to secure a work permit or teacher's license, although tye tried hard to get them. It's either lies, ignorance or laziness, take your pick.

[Ijustwannateach]

Without the proper paperwork (see the Red Tape for Teachers thread for more details) it is *in fact* illegal to do any work here, even for one day [whether or not you get paid, oddly- recently volunteer workers helping out after the tsunami disaster in Phuket were penalized despite their humanitarian motives].

It is *in fact* also nearly impossible to get the necessary paperwork as a teacher until one has already started working. Catch-22.

However, the chance that anyone will care about you enough to deport or imprison you during the period when you are waiting for this paperwork to be processed is extremely low. Really, really low. Unless you are very, very unlucky or very stupid or get the wrong person really, really upset at you.

We can't recommend to you that you accept any situation in which you will not spend any time working without all the necessary papers; however, if you do not accept such a situation for at least awhile you probably will never wind up working as a teacher in Thailand.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

"Steven"

[Khutan]

fine, detention and deportation

I visited someone at the IDC a while ago, and gave him the money for a ticket home - very sad place.

You only need to annoy one child whose dad is a police-man.

[Thetyim]

Does the school get fined/punished for employing a falang without a work permit ?

The reason I ask is that I have been asked twice by the local fuzz if I would like to teach the 'boys in brown' some English.

[jerry921]

Does the school get fined/punished for employing  a falang without a work permit  ?

The reason I ask is that I have been asked twice by the local fuzz if I would like to teach the 'boys in brown' some English.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you were a character in a cheap novel that would be "an offer you couldn't refuse", but taking it would guarantee you were protected from whatever crime you committed in the prologue....

[Nat]

I have been reading posts on here and elsewhere and have a couple of questions which I hope someone can answer.

1 - If you teach illegally surely the authorities would come down on you if they found  out.  Do they?

2 - What are the pros and cons of teaching illegally.

Thanks in advance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Answer to the first question: Depends upon the institute you’re working for – it’s up to them to hide or conceal your employment.

Regarding the second question: the Pro is that the students receive the education they’re entitled to (sometimes) . The Con is that you (don’t) get caught. All the best (but think that the students deserve the legit thing).

[Ijustwannateach]

It's not recommended. You risk a lot if you get caught by anyone who's seriously after you.

It's one thing (and bad enough at that!) to be working temporarily illegally while real paperwork is on its way. But to do this as a plan for the long term is at best silly, and at worst very self-destructive, I think, unless you already have another source of income and this is just to pass time or for beer money.

"Steven"

[Neeranam]

Does the school get fined/punished for employing a falang without a work permit ?

The reason I ask is that I have been asked twice by the local fuzz if I would like to teach the 'boys in brown' some English

I say go ahead and teach the coppers. I did it years ago without a WP and got friendly with the Chief, who didn't care, and in fact said that if I ever had any problems to contact him. Always good to be on the right side of the force.

[kenkannif]

Even if you did have a WP from a school unless you taught the police on the school premises (i.e. not privately or at their place of work) you most likely wouldn't be covered anyway (location specific WP).

[Neeranam]

Even if you did have a WP from a school unless you taught the police on the school premises (i.e. not privately or at their place of work) you most likely wouldn't be covered anyway (location specific WP).

I don't think anyone really cares about that law.

I have never heard of anyone being arrested for doing this, but known hundreds of teachers who have done it.

[Sexy Beast]

Even if you were caught I’d imagine that you might get a slapped wrist and a fine.

[aqua4]

Interesting

The Nation Multimedia group runs adverts for teaching jobs all the time. The first 3 months is probation. Only after that do they obtain a work permit for you. So you are illegal for the first three months in any event.

[PeaceBlondie]

Interesting

The Nation Multimedia group runs adverts for teaching jobs all the time. The first 3 months is probation. Only after that do they obtain a work permit for you. So you are illegal for the first three months in any event.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I'd gotten a work permit within 3, 6, 12, or even 18 months, I wouldn't HAVE to spend 100,000 baht per year on visa runs. No, not the 30-day runs; the 90-day stamp runs and the 364-day visa run back to my home country. Roughly FOUR months' salary to work at a school that's incompetent, ignorant, and lazy when it comes to providing work permits. Not naming any names....yet

[kenkannif]

Even if you did have a WP from a school unless you taught the police on the school premises (i.e. not privately or at their place of work) you most likely wouldn't be covered anyway (location specific WP).

I don't think anyone really cares about that law.

I have never heard of anyone being arrested for doing this, but known hundreds of teachers who have done it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree in regards to teachers, other types of workers have got into trouble for this if I remember correctly!

[No beleeeeve!]

I know a handful of guys who work at XXXXX XXXXXXXX and half their staff don't have work permits...never a thing happened to them. Some have been teaching there for two years illegally. It happens all over.

Edited March 14, 2005 by kenkannif

[brianbrain]

... spend 100,000 baht per year ... Roughly FOUR months' salary

Are you working out in the sticks somewhere? That wage seems terribly low.

[brianbrain]

Even if you did have a WP from a school unless you taught the police on the school premises (i.e. not privately or at their place of work) you most likely wouldn't be covered anyway (location specific WP).

I don't think anyone really cares about that law.

I have never heard of anyone being arrested for doing this, but known hundreds of teachers who have done it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree in regards to teachers, other types of workers have got into trouble for this if I remember correctly!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's imagine a teacher has a legitimate job at a Thai government school. All the paperwork is in order, including visa, work permit, and teaching licence (if required). Would it be a good idea for that teacher to carry his/her work permit with him if he/she was doing some extra work on the side, say at a local language school? The WP states so categorically that no additional work should be taken, it seems almost like an act of hara-kiri. What do you think?

[brianbrain]

Even if you did have a WP from a school unless you taught the police on the school premises (i.e. not privately or at their place of work) you most likely wouldn't be covered anyway (location specific WP).

I don't think anyone really cares about that law.

I have never heard of anyone being arrested for doing this, but known hundreds of teachers who have done it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree in regards to teachers, other types of workers have got into trouble for this if I remember correctly!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's imagine a teacher has a legitimate job at a Thai government school. All the paperwork is in order, including visa, work permit, and teaching licence (if required). Would it be a good idea for that teacher to carry his/her work permit with him if he/she was doing some extra work on the side, say at a local language school? The WP states so categorically that no additional work should be taken, it seems almost like an act of hara-kiri. What do you think?

[kenkannif]

It would probably be enough to get away with it, I doubt they'd look too closely...in fact I doubt they'd even ask to see the WP.

Quite often a teacher has a WP from a language school and is working at a goverment school....most times the location is for the language school though.

[Marmite the Dog]

I think you'll find that there are more illegal teachers/tutors here than legal ones.

Thailand is not a country governed by the rule of law, so don't worry about it. If you can get a job teaching boss cop's kids, you're probably 'more legal' than someone with the correct paperwork.

[PeaceBlondie]

... spend 100,000 baht per year ... Roughly FOUR months' salary

Are you working out in the sticks somewhere? That wage seems terribly low.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, in the sticks for 25K. First year here, straight out of TEFL with a real degree, schools in CMai weren't hiring and if they were, it was probably 20K. I got paid for Aug-Sep-Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb, then laid off. New school year, 25K with promise of 12 months' payments. I figured that was a pay raise of 25%. Now, finally, places in CMai are starting around 25K and I could get 30K for full-time work (I want part time work now).

Of course, if proper WP was provided, there'd be no need for the annual trip home to get a new B visa (and I'm from USA). Also, no need for 90-day visa runs at about 1,000 baht per trip.

So, it's very expensive to work semi-legally, even if they never deport or fine you.

[wilko]

Even if you were caught I’d imagine that you might get a slapped wrist and a fine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the law has recently changed - If caught it is automatic deportation and a bar from Thailand of 99yrs.

But the law has to be enforced first...

The authorities do not seem to go looking for illegal teachers but all you have to do is annoy the wrong person or make a fellow teacher jealous and they make one call to immigration who then may feel obliged to investigate..........

[kenkannif]

Can you link to the law change please?

I've only ever heard of one lady being deported for working illegally...she was dobbed in by a fellow teacher a few years ago in Pattaya.

[PeaceBlondie]

Don't most of these rumored deportations revolve around the immigration laws rather than the labor laws? Even in the rumor, don't they get deported because they're working on a tourist visa, or an expired visa, or extradited for a foreign crime, etc.? How many are actually deported because they worked with a B visa but without a WP?

[Neeranam]

I've only ever heard of one lady being deported for working illegally...she was dobbed in by a fellow teacher a few years ago in Pattaya.

You would have to be very unlucky to get done.

Not only must you piss someone off, but they would have to power.

i.e someone whose father was a government minister.

Labour Dept. DO NOT care about teachers working without a WP. You don't need one, in most cases if you are careful.

[EVO]

Guys, the answer to your teching WP problems is very easy.

You point out to the school that you expect your work permit within the first 3 week period of your employment. If they dont make this promise, or tell you that it is impossible, or dont follow through with their promise, you collect your first months wages and walk out the door.

There are plenty of reputable schools around where your work permit is not a problem, and the process itself takes no longer than ten days. I wouldnt risk working without one.

[kenkannif]

The TL can take a fair bit of time to obtain depending on which MoE you're obtaining it from.

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, then how about if you say, "Here, I give you what I think you do to get me a work permit. In three weeks, you give me a copy of what you did - signed by the Director, received by the Min. of Ed. or Min. of Labour."

If they haven't done diddly squat by week four, walk out the door, that's what it's there for, don't stay any more.