Ec Moves To Disqualify 13 Govt Mps

[webfact]

DEMOCRATS' HOLDINGS

EC moves to disqualify 13 govt MPS

By The Nation

Published on July 17, 2009

Deputy PM Suthep the highest-profile figure said to have violated charter ban

The Election Commission yesterday moved to disqualify 13 Democrat Party MPs, including Deputy Premier Suthep Thaugsuban, for contravening the Constitution by holding shares in firms involved with mass media or state contracts.

Suthep is one of the most powerful Democrats in government, second only to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, the party's leader.

The Constitution Court will decide whether all 13 should be stripped of their MP status.

Among the 13 MPs, 11 were elected by constituencies and the other two by proportional voting.

EC secretary-general Suthiphon Thaveechaiygarn said Suthep's shareholdings included those in mass-media firm True while he was an MP.

Equities are not allowed, but the EC said Suthep's possession of debentures issued by IRPC, another firm with government links, was constitutional.

The 12 other Democrat MPs disqualified by the EC represent Bangkok and provinces in the Northeast, North and South.

Suthiphon said the EC applied the same standard used when it disqualified a group of Senators on an identical charge.

Regarding the case of another former Democrat MP, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra, he said the governor's wife, Sawitri Paribatra na Ayutthaya, took over ownership of stocks from her husband after he resigned as an MP to become governor, so he did not violate the charter.

The 14 other Democrat MPs facing the same charge were also found to have bought debentures, not company shares, so they did not infringe the charter's ban on equity holdings.

Earlier, an EC committee was more lenient, ruling MPs who had held disallowed shares before assuming the post of MP would not be affected.

However, the commissioners reversed the committee's interpretation and ruled against the 13 Democrats on grounds they were not supposed to own any equity stakes in mass-media companies or companies holding state concessions even before taking up their MP seat.

Media firms held by disqualified MPs include Total Access Communications, MCOT and Jasmine International.

Some MPs also hold shares in Glow Energy, which has won a state concession.

Suthep said he was not under pressure to quit as deputy premier after the EC ruling.

There would be a solution, he said, without specifying what that would be.

These cases will not affect the government's stability, Suthep added.

Trying to avoid reporters, he tripped over an electric wire as he rushed to get into his car following the EC's announcement.

Suthep earlier said he would continue in his ministerial post even if the EC ruled against his MP status

-- The Nation 2009/07/17

[soundman]

Moved to News Clippings.

[animatic]

I wonder how the Red Shirts, PPP and TRT supporters who have screamed about bias in the EC,

can respond to this even handed response to Constitutional Issues?

Seems it is as good for the goose as gander.

Edited July 17, 2009 by animatic

[LawnGnome]

They'll respond the same way they always do when confronted with fairness - scream something about "the invisible hand" trying to throw everyone off the scent...

Edited July 17, 2009 by LawnGnome

[cougar52]

Animatic and LawnGnome

They will complain yes, about the invisible hand especially since a Cabinet Member (IF) disqualified as a MP and violating the constitution is allowed to remain as the Dep. PM.

see what the PM says;

The disqualification of 13 Democrat MPs would not affect the stability of the Democrat-led coalition government, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Friday morning.

The Democrat MPs, including Deputy Prime Minister and party secretary general Suthep Thaugsuban, were disqualified by the Election Commission (EC) yesterday for violating the constitution by holding shares in businesses prohibited by the charter.

The Constitution Court will have the final say.

“If the Constitution Court also rules to disqualify the MPs and by-elections are held, I am confident that the MPs will once again win at the polls”, said Mr Abhisit.

It was not necessary for the MPs to resign their seats now. Only those ruled guilty by the court would have to resign.

The prime minister said there would be no need for a cabinet reshuffle. Mr Suthep could continue to hold the position of deputy prime minister even if he was disqualified as an MP.

[monkfish]

Guess they will get 2 years or more

Edited July 17, 2009 by monkfish

[xminator]

Cooking shows however are serious business... A little share holding on the side by the current coup installed government most powerfull man however - no problem for the puppet.

Edited July 17, 2009 by xminator

[animatic]

Suthep has resign as MP, so says THE NATION.

But being in the cabinet I believe does not require MP status.

While being Prime Minister does.

Not sure on Dep. PM.

No doubt Suthep could get re-elected,

Samak could have too, but declined.

Edited July 17, 2009 by animatic

[webfact]

SHARE HOLDING CASE

Suthep resigns as MP

By Piyanart Srivalo

The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, whose parliamentary status hangs on the balance because of the share holding case, announced his resignation as the Democrat Party MP Friday.

He held a press conference to announce his decision to resign a day after the Election Commission announced its decision to seek a ruling by the Constitution Court to disqualify him and 12 other Democrat MPs for having allegedly violated the charter by having stakes in media firm or companies which have received concessions from the government.

Suthep's resignation as an MP did not affect his Cabinet status as a Cabinet member is not required to be an MP.

He said he resigned so that he could go on working as the deputy prime minisetr instead of having to be suspended from duty had he case been submitted to the Constitution Court.

He insisted that his resignation was not a proof that he had done something wrong but he worried about his works as a deputy prime minister.

Suthep also insisted that he will not resign from the Cabinet.

He said the EC should resign if the Constitution Court later rules that the Democrat MPs did not violate the charter with their share holding.

-- The Nation 2009/07/17

[Ferwert]

Cooking shows however are serious business... A little share holding on the side by the current coup installed government most powerfull man however - no problem for the puppet.

Couldn't have said it better myself. But I'll hold my fire, until I get some more facts about this aleged independent EC action. These Democrat MP's and the real PM Suthep are too much of the elitist power structure to be blindsided in any way. You can count on getting an alternative POV from what the media will be feeding you...I can promise you that.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Ferwert

[animatic]

Same side of the same coin.

Clear conflict of interest was shown in Samak case,

but he waited till the courts pulled the plug.

He also committed perjury n court to boot.

Suthep bowed out after EC decision, so even earlier in the legal time line.

As in the Samak case it's now how much shares or remuneration was received,

but the fact ANY influence was potential manipulatable by the connection.

Edited July 17, 2009 by animatic

[Ferwert]

I wonder how the Red Shirts, PPP and TRT supporters who have screamed about bias in the EC,

can respond to this even handed response to Constitutional Issues?

Seems it is as good for the goose as gander.

You are correct Animatic...A pox on all their houses, right! Lets link this sentiment to this EC decisions and see where it takes us.

Follow the bouncing ball,.... 'er.... star:

*Which forces are the EC beholden to? .....I wont answer that!

*Are those forces democratic in their thinking, in terms of universal suffrage?........I dont think so. Much like the military

constitution.

*I have said before, to eliminate electoral democracy, one needs to demonize/eliminate certain fixtures of this modus-operandi,

such as:................demonize Thaksin, the icon of electoral success

.................Find fault with electoral processes. Case in point being the vote-buying thing. Raise and promote this issue

without offering solutions. In fact, you dont want solutions. Instead, promote the myth that it is irremedial.

................ demonize Politicians... AHA!......THERE WE HAVE IT!

That puts the EC decision in context.

"a pox on all their houses"

Lets just do away with all their houses

Get rid of 'em, and appoint those who will serve our interests

Edited July 17, 2009 by Ferwert

[Chunkton]

I wonder how the Red Shirts, PPP and TRT supporters who have screamed about bias in the EC,

can respond to this even handed response to Constitutional Issues?

Seems it is as good for the goose as gander.

You are quite right of course if it plays out that way. Let's just wait a little yet and see what actually happens. Should it not play out I assume then you will be taking a stand against EC bias? Like wise if it does then those accusing bias should apologize.

[animatic]

If the courts give a clear ruling on it based on facts of law I won't argue the point.

Thaksin the icon may have shown electoral success,

but the ways and means were less that icon status democratically.

If he had been several levels less greedy this all likely would not have come to pass.

When I first came here I liked the guy, but then the more I learned the

less appealing his whole act became.

Yes throw the bums out,

and put in someone who will actually serve the public good.

No arguement there.

[Old Man River]

Cooking shows however are serious business... A little share holding on the side by the current coup installed government most powerfull man however - no problem for the puppet.

Couldn't have said it better myself. But I'll hold my fire, until I get some more facts about this aleged independent EC action. These Democrat MP's and the real PM Suthep are too much of the elitist power structure to be blindsided in any way. You can count on getting an alternative POV from what the media will be feeding you...I can promise you that.

The comment below was included in The Nation's article this morning. Clearly there is more to this. It is hard to know what the rules are when they keep changing.

From The Nation: "Earlier, an EC committee was more lenient, ruling MPs who had held disallowed shares before assuming the post of MP would not be affected."

[Ferwert]

Cooking shows however are serious business... A little share holding on the side by the current coup installed government most powerfull man however - no problem for the puppet.

Couldn't have said it better myself. But I'll hold my fire, until I get some more facts about this aleged independent EC action. These Democrat MP's and the real PM Suthep are too much of the elitist power structure to be blindsided in any way. You can count on getting an alternative POV from what the media will be feeding you...I can promise you that.

The comment below was included in The Nation's article this morning. Clearly there is more to this. It is hard to know what the rules are when they keep changing.

From The Nation: "Earlier, an EC committee was more lenient, ruling MPs who had held disallowed shares before assuming the post of MP would not be affected."

Trying to finesse the anti-politician agenda so as to obfuscate the real intent is subtle and indirect. See Post#12 for the underlying political currents to this latest EC machinations. We are headed straight for non-electoral Politics in Thailand, unless the pro-democracy forces gather themselves. Electoral democracy was never completely "bought into" anyway. Look under the surface, and you see all the subtle signs. You take away one-person-one-vote voting rights, and you remove the essential ingredient of Democracy. Good luck trying to get it back. When the few, choose Governors for the many, is not Democracy.

I could go on and on but will spare you the drivel - ie. the anti-democracy PAD being led by, and hugely rooted in the Chinese population sectors of Thai society - not a particular bastion of Democracy in their ancestral land.

I wonder how long they will allow me to post on this board, considering my contrarian perspective - although always professionally stated. Pro..pro-democracy Red Shirts opinionating and trying to balance out the dominant anti-Thaksin sentiments on this board may rub some key people the wrong way, as it is not their agenda. If I dissappear, you will know why and you will continue the same old, same old - assaulted by the anti-Red Shirt, anti-Thaksin, anti-electoral Democracy agenda. Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

[hammered]

Pressure on MPs. There are another 44 facing the same soon from both camps. If the senators go down in the court then the senate becomes inquorate according to some reports.

Thaksin throwing out the offer of a PTP-Dem alliance cannot be viewed outside this context too. There is a lot of pressure on the Dems it seems and it may be trying to push them in ways they dont want to go. They probably do genuinely want reconcilliation but are maybe starting to realise this wont happen if they continue in the ways they are being pushed. Alliances are not as strong as they were and there are bound to be fissures between those who want to manipulate behind the scenes and those who rely on votes.

Rumours of military movements in the country too.

An interesting period.

[TAWP]

Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

As your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS, please allow me to not agree with this last statement of yours.

Oh, and so you know, Thaksin is very much Chinese-rooted so to claim the Chinese-Thai is the main anti-democratic forces here becomes, well...you can figure it out.

[Ferwert]

Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

As your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS, please allow me to not agree with this last statement of yours.

Oh, and so you know, Thaksin is very much Chinese-rooted so to claim the Chinese-Thai is the main anti-democratic forces here becomes, well...you can figure it out.

"...your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS....."Thank you for that Tawp. You are telling me that for you, my opinion is of no value, and void of substance. Couldn't you just tell me that you disagree. Everyone appreciates respect. So do I.

Yes, of course many Thai's of Chinese descent are not involved with the PAD, including Mr. Thaksin...But that doesn't make my statement any less valid.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Ferwert

[TAWP]

Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

As your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS, please allow me to not agree with this last statement of yours.

Oh, and so you know, Thaksin is very much Chinese-rooted so to claim the Chinese-Thai is the main anti-democratic forces here becomes, well...you can figure it out.

"...your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS....."Thank you for that Tawp. You are telling me that for you, my opinion is of no value, and void of substance. Couldn't you just tell me that you disagree. Everyone appreciates respect. So do I.

Yes, of course many Thai's of Chinese descent are not involved with the PAD, including Mr. Thaksin...But that doesn't make my statement any less valid.

I'm not claiming that your posts are of no value or void of substance, I am telling you that bringing alone propaganda is not trying to give a balanced you, unless you think the world is a football-game and scoring goal for another bad team in a football game with two bad opponents is somehow being balanced, just because you think the result should after your goal be tied. It's just filling the space with more propaganda.

If your posts are filled with the value and substance as you most likely think, then dispose of the triteness and bring out only the things of value. Maybe they will appear less clouded for us 'dull and deluded readers of English-language Thai press'.

[Ferwert]

Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

As your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS, please allow me to not agree with this last statement of yours.

Oh, and so you know, Thaksin is very much Chinese-rooted so to claim the Chinese-Thai is the main anti-democratic forces here becomes, well...you can figure it out.

"...your posts are usually full of innuendos, propaganda and high-stepping BS....."Thank you for that Tawp. You are telling me that for you, my opinion is of no value, and void of substance. Couldn't you just tell me that you disagree. Everyone appreciates respect. So do I.

Yes, of course many Thai's of Chinese descent are not involved with the PAD, including Mr. Thaksin...But that doesn't make my statement any less valid.

I'm not claiming that your posts are of no value or void of substance, I am telling you that bringing alone propaganda is not trying to give a balanced you, unless you think the world is a football-game and scoring goal for another bad team in a football game with two bad opponents is somehow being balanced, just because you think the result should after your goal be tied. It's just filling the space with more propaganda.

If your posts are filled with the value and substance as you most likely think, then dispose of the triteness and bring out only the things of value. Maybe they will appear less clouded for us 'dull and deluded readers of English-language Thai press'.

"......for us dull and deluded readers of English-language Thai press"...........Good sense of humour Tawp.

I agree about the "balanced" thing. I dont pretend to be balanced at all. I am unabashadly pro-Thaksin and pro..pro-democracy Red Shirts...nothing balanced about that. The balance I speak of is providing a counter-weight to the dominant POV seen on this board.

My friends tell me I am also "dull and delusional", but dam_n, I'm handsome!

Edited July 18, 2009 by Ferwert

[hammered]

My friends tell me I am also "dull and delusional", but dam_n, I'm handsome!

Nice sense of humour there;)

[sukeroku]

It's nice to know not everyone wears yellow around here! A refreshing change, a little fresh air! Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be reading your posts for long...

[Ferwert]

It's nice to know not everyone wears yellow around here! A refreshing change, a little fresh air! Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be reading your posts for long...

You may be right Sukeroku. My posts are very clear about my take on Thai politics with no ambivalence, and no balance. If I dissapear, it will merely point out the media agendi-zation I have been talking about. It will prove my point. I cannot be banished for showing disrespect to my fellow posters. To the contrary, I have only the utmost respect for them. Without them, a political debate cannot happen. Political discussions offering only similar opinions, with slight variations to distinguish them, is not debate. For example, if everyone dumps on Thaksin, pretty soon it becomes a contest to see who can dump the biggest load.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Ferwert

[hammered]

Interesting stuff guys but how about getting this on topic rather than worrying baout being banned. I hope nobody disppears that way myself. It gets boring when divergent opinions disappear.

What are the chances of electoral politics as we know disappearing and being replaced by new politics? There seems to be at least soemone who sees this happening.

[animatic]

Cooking shows however are serious business... A little share holding on the side by the current coup installed government most powerfull man however - no problem for the puppet.

Couldn't have said it better myself. But I'll hold my fire, until I get some more facts about this aleged independent EC action. These Democrat MP's and the real PM Suthep are too much of the elitist power structure to be blindsided in any way. You can count on getting an alternative POV from what the media will be feeding you...I can promise you that.

The comment below was included in The Nation's article this morning. Clearly there is more to this. It is hard to know what the rules are when they keep changing.

From The Nation: "Earlier, an EC committee was more lenient, ruling MPs who had held disallowed shares before assuming the post of MP would not be affected."

Trying to finesse the anti-politician agenda so as to obfuscate the real intent is subtle and indirect. See Post#12 for the underlying political currents to this latest EC machinations. We are headed straight for non-electoral Politics in Thailand, unless the pro-democracy forces gather themselves. Electoral democracy was never completely "bought into" anyway. Look under the surface, and you see all the subtle signs. You take away one-person-one-vote voting rights, and you remove the essential ingredient of Democracy. Good luck trying to get it back. When the few, choose Governors for the many, is not Democracy.

I could go on and on but will spare you the drivel - ie. the anti-democracy PAD being led by, and hugely rooted in the Chinese population sectors of Thai society - not a particular bastion of Democracy in their ancestral land.

I wonder how long they will allow me to post on this board, considering my contrarian perspective - although always professionally stated. Pro..pro-democracy Red Shirts opinionating and trying to balance out the dominant anti-Thaksin sentiments on this board may rub some key people the wrong way, as it is not their agenda. If I dissappear, you will know why and you will continue the same old, same old - assaulted by the anti-Red Shirt, anti-Thaksin, anti-electoral Democracy agenda. Agree with me or not, you must admit I bring some balance to the discussion, while adhering to professional standards of discourse.

Since the word Professional is so often repeated,

it is not a stretch to extrapolate that you might just be PROFESSIONAL at this.

I don't see a predominant anti-Democratic bias here, nor even a predominantly anti-Thaksin bias.

There are many, many opinions here, some more well stated and rational than others.

The ones that have been excluded are from those individuals who broke forum rules,

not contrary to alleged forum biases. Those that shoot the messenger get shot themselves.

Several of us feel we are countering a concerted effort at Public Relations from the Thaksin side.

He has been quite public stating that he has Professional Public Relations staff working the net for his views.

And specifically to counter negative western views about his veracity.

One man's PR efforts at re-writing history for his own ends

vs several individuals stating this doesn't match the realities they have viewed themselves.

When the few, choose Governors for the many, is not Democracy.

Except this is EXACTLY the process that made Dr. Thaksin the Prime Minister.

People voted for his 'political machines' choices of MPs, and then those MPs voted him PM.

The few puyais and kamnans deliver the votes for the machine, based on local leverage and control,

then that power is passed on to fewer hands indeed.

The few choose the governors.

Videos of Thaksin's cabinet meetings show no dissent allowed from his views.

Megalomaniac, control freak at work. When Somkid quit he said to the press;

'It doesn't matter if they leave, I am the only one doing any work here anyway.'

Edited July 18, 2009 by animatic

[Ferwert]

Interesting stuff guys but how about getting this on topic rather than worrying baout being banned. I hope nobody disppears that way myself. It gets boring when divergent opinions disappear.

What are the chances of electoral politics as we know disappearing and being replaced by new politics? There seems to be at least soemone who sees this happening.

I agree with your previous post about Provincial Governors also being elected Hammered. Good point! With respect to your question about the possibility of appointive processes replacing electoral ones, this is what I have been harping about in many of my posts, using examples and evidence to prove my point. If your life is devoid of any meaning at this point, and you have absolutely nothing of consequence to do, have a read of all that drivel in my posts. In essence I claim that one-person-one-vote is in jeopardy in Thailand, as there are clear anti-democracy forces (PAD and their misnomer, New Politics) and the pro-democracy Red Shirts.

[TAWP]

Claiming Red Shirts are pro-democracy is also a misnomer... but never mind that, ey?

[sukeroku]

Claiming Red Shirts are pro-democracy is also a misnomer... but never mind that, ey?

It would be more precise to call the Red Shirts anti-anti-democracy than necessarily singularly pro-democracy. Nonetheless, those who oppose the PAD can't be all bad!