Democrats Snare 43 Million Windfall In First 5 Months

[george]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) “red-shirt” movement or the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) “yellow-shirt” group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

[Ferwert]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) “red-shirt” movement or the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) “yellow-shirt” group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

Similar to the big business GOP in the USA, it would be assumed that the Thai Democrat party with its' heavy-duty financial backers would exceed all other parties in financial resources. But the way this agenized media report it, they are trying subtly to convey the notion that this is an indicator of political support. They need to create indicators of this wherever they can find it. The last two by-elections need to be overcome somehow. Unfortunately for them, it is electoral success that denotes political support.

[animatic]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

Edited July 21, 2009 by animatic

[Plus]

It just shows which horse the business is backing at the moment.

There were days when Dems couldn't get a dime out of them.

Also don't forget that a couple of heavyweights like someone from Thaksin family can easily tip the balance into PTP favour in just one big go.

Let's see how the donation pie is divided once the elections are on, that would be more indicative.

[hammered]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) “red-shirt” movement or the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) “yellow-shirt” group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

Similar to the big business GOP in the USA, it would be assumed that the Thai Democrat party with its' heavy-duty financial backers would exceed all other parties in financial resources. But the way this agenized media report it, they are trying subtly to convey the notion that this is an indicator of political support. They need to create indicators of this wherever they can find it. The last two by-elections need to be overcome somehow. Unfortunately for them, it is electoral success that denotes political support.

The Surat Thani by-election will be used to show support.

The Dems biggest problem is going to be the economy. It will limit what they can do and how people see them and will hurt them in the more closely contested central region where they need to do well and in better times maybe could.

If the government dont see a good time to go to the people then in about 2.5 years it will be mandatory. What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?

[hammered]

It just shows which horse the business is backing at the moment.

There were days when Dems couldn't get a dime out of them.

Also don't forget that a couple of heavyweights like someone from Thaksin family can easily tip the balance into PTP favour in just one big go.

Let's see how the donation pie is divided once the elections are on, that would be more indicative.

Remember too this is all official announced and audited money. In Thailand the off record donations to faction leaders, MPs and canvassers can be a lot more useful.

[Ferwert]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

"........a larger percentage of Thai's obviously like them...." If that was true Animatic, Abhisit and his friends would be tripping over themselves getting to an election. By-elections are key indicators of the way political winds are blowing. The last two weren't even close. If you are correct and Abhisit was elected, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But he hasn't won one yet. It is the one-person-one-vote process that is important for me, and for Abhisit and friends, this is the big problem. It is my understanding that previous Democrat Party administrations were very unresponsive to the voter, who put them out-to-pasture. This lack of electoral success is not by accident. There is a reason, and therefore a very good reason we can't see Abhisit for dust when someone mentions an election.

[Ferwert]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) "red-shirt" movement or the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) "yellow-shirt" group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

Similar to the big business GOP in the USA, it would be assumed that the Thai Democrat party with its' heavy-duty financial backers would exceed all other parties in financial resources. But the way this agenized media report it, they are trying subtly to convey the notion that this is an indicator of political support. They need to create indicators of this wherever they can find it. The last two by-elections need to be overcome somehow. Unfortunately for them, it is electoral success that denotes political support.

The Surat Thani by-election will be used to show support.

The Dems biggest problem is going to be the economy. It will limit what they can do and how people see them and will hurt them in the more closely contested central region where they need to do well and in better times maybe could.

If the government dont see a good time to go to the people then in about 2.5 years it will be mandatory. What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?

"....What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?".............During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. It coalesced around a muck-raking type TV program called "The Truth", and out of that, the Red Shirts were born. This Pro-democracy movement and the silent majority belatedly woke up in response to the PAD excesses. They have now grown to such proportions that the anti-democracy momentum has slowed, and electoral democracy cannot be dismissed with impunity, as it was close to doing during that PAD ascendancy. I am speculating therefore, that now a Thaksin-backed electoral win could no longer be prevented. It is more likely, that it will never get to that. It is more likely that electoral privileges will be denied to those sectors of society who represent a democratic majority

[Old Man River]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) "red-shirt" movement or the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) "yellow-shirt" group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

Similar to the big business GOP in the USA, it would be assumed that the Thai Democrat party with its' heavy-duty financial backers would exceed all other parties in financial resources. But the way this agenized media report it, they are trying subtly to convey the notion that this is an indicator of political support. They need to create indicators of this wherever they can find it. The last two by-elections need to be overcome somehow. Unfortunately for them, it is electoral success that denotes political support.

The Surat Thani by-election will be used to show support.

The Dems biggest problem is going to be the economy. It will limit what they can do and how people see them and will hurt them in the more closely contested central region where they need to do well and in better times maybe could.

If the government dont see a good time to go to the people then in about 2.5 years it will be mandatory. What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?

"....What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?".............During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. It coalesced around a muck-raking type TV program called "The Truth", and out of that, the Red Shirts were born. This Pro-democracy movement and the silent majority belatedly woke up in response to the PAD excesses. They have now grown to such proportions that the anti-democracy momentum has slowed, and electoral democracy cannot be dismissed with impunity, as it was close to doing during that PAD ascendancy. I am speculating therefore, that now a Thaksin-backed electoral win could no longer be prevented. It is more likely, that it will never get to that. It is more likely that electoral privileges will be denied to those sectors of society who represent a democratic majority

Thaksin has been banned from politics for 5 years. Adding to this, he is a convicted criminal on the run. Really, is preventing a criminally backed (i.e. Thakisn-backed - your words) electoral win all that bad?

[animatic]

Democrats snare 43 million windfall in first 5 months

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- Winners are grinners as the saying goes and according to the Electoral Commission (EC) that translates into money in the bank with the ruling Democrat Party receiving the lions share of public and corporate donations in the first five months of the year.

EC commissioner Sodsri Sattayatham said that up until the end of May the Democrats pocketed a cool Bt43 million (about $US126,000) of the Bt67.54 million (about $US1.986 million) Thais donated to political parties.

The Democrats booty was more than three times the Bt12 million (about $US35,000) donated to the main opposition Puea Thai Party, and more than five times the Bt7.7 million (about $US226,000) received by Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana.

According to Sodsri, Bhumjaithai came next in the donations ratings receiving Bt5 million (about $US147,000), followed by Chart Thai Pattana with Bt2 million (about $US58,800) and Rassadorn with a paltry Bt1.5 million (about $US44,000).

Thammaphiban Sangkhom, Social Action, and Palang Pandin Thai all received less than Bt1 million each (about $US29,400), with the last two parties failing to break through the Bt100,000 (about $US2,940) barrier.

Under the constitution political parties are required to report all donations to the EC, however the figures are somewhat misleading as they fail to take into account money donated to the United Front for Democracy (UDD) "red-shirt" movement or the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) "yellow-shirt" group, which are both not registered political parties.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-07-21

The Surat Thani by-election will be used to show support.

The Dems biggest problem is going to be the economy. It will limit what they can do and how people see them and will hurt them in the more closely contested central region where they need to do well and in better times maybe could.

If the government dont see a good time to go to the people then in about 2.5 years it will be mandatory. What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?

Similar to the big business GOP in the USA, it would be assumed that the Thai Democrat party with its' heavy-duty financial backers would exceed all other parties in financial resources. But the way this agenized media report it, they are trying subtly to convey the notion that this is an indicator of political support. They need to create indicators of this wherever they can find it. The last two by-elections need to be overcome somehow. Unfortunately for them, it is electoral success that denotes political support.

"....What happens if it looks like a Thaksin backed party will win then?".............During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. It coalesced around a muck-raking type TV program called "The Truth", and out of that, the Red Shirts were born. This Pro-democracy movement and the silent majority belatedly woke up in response to the PAD excesses. They have now grown to such proportions that the anti-democracy momentum has slowed, and electoral democracy cannot be dismissed with impunity, as it was close to doing during that PAD ascendancy. I am speculating therefore, that now a Thaksin-backed electoral win could no longer be prevented. It is more likely, that it will never get to that. It is more likely that electoral privileges will be denied to those sectors of society who represent a democratic majority

Thaksin has been banned from politics for 5 years. Adding to this, he is a convicted criminal on the run. Really, is preventing a criminally backed (i.e. Thakisn-backed - your words) electoral win all that bad?

I didn't say largest percentage, but LARGER percentage,

please read my words not your expectations of them.

The so called Red Shirt Movement with it's much more recent 'Democracy' overlay

has been going on since before Thaksin sold Shin to Temasek and well before that.

Same leaders, those that aren't in hiding abroad, and same general tactics:

Violence to suppress dissenting voices up country.

This is the same old crew doing the same old <deleted>,

and to try and paint them as some newly formed Democracy movement

is pure hypocrisy and essentially another propaganda re-write of history...

A PERFECT example of the "agend'ized media report" :

'The Truth Today' show, not "The Truth" was on a Thaksin controlled government TV station,

as a mouth piece for his political issues. It has been known on several stations by several names,

but Veera M and crew have been spouting the same Thaksin party line for 4+ years at the very least.

Nothing new about this at all.

muckraking.

to search for and expose real or alleged corruption, scandal, or the like, esp. in politics.

Muck-raking is really NOT the right word for this, in the sense of a Citizen Kane type newspaper

creating stories to fit the political needs. Mostly this was nothing more than a direct assault on

any opposing voices to Thaksin's world view.

Thus the bold of alleged, it need not be an exposé based on fact ,

but presenting supposed corruption, or wishful thinking, even if it doesn't exist.

In other words political hatchet jobs for one side vs another.

A Thaksin backed electoral win would be illegal owing to his ban from politics.

Preventing him from manipulating an election for his own ends would be a

perfectly reasonable interpretation of that ruling.

And there is the likelihood at some point the EC will eventually reach that conclusion,

because as is their habit PTP, like TRT and PPP before it will get caught cheating,

and involve Thaksin in it.

Edited July 21, 2009 by animatic

[Plus]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

[animatic]

Naw, just the birthday of their chromatic change.

Such nice, those red shirted people throwing bags of feces at people talking.

That is soooo democratic!

[Ferwert]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

All this from "Plus" and "Animatic" who have never been to a pro-democracy event of the Red Shirts. I know that absolutely and without doubt. Such vitriol would never come from anyone with first-hand knowledge and observation of Red Shirt pro-democracy events. There is no correlation between these POV and reality on the ground with these people. I invite anyone to see for yourself as I am absolutely confident it would bear out my comments. So what prompts such negative and unfounded commentary about the Red Shirts? I can only speculate. And should I be woefully wrong about "Plus" and "Animatic" having been to their events, than what would cause them to misrepresent the pro-democracy Red Shirts so vehemently. Again, I can only speculate. They are clearly counting on the fact that the Farangs on this board have also never been near Red Shirt pro-democracy events and can be told misrepresentative information because they dont know any better. In my sincerity, I invite you to join me to see for yourself. It would put the lie to "Plus" and "Animatic".

Edited July 21, 2009 by Ferwert

[Ferwert]

Naw, just the birthday of their chromatic change.

Such nice, those red shirted people throwing bags of feces at people talking.

That is soooo democratic!

Please see my comments on Post #13 Animatic.

[LawnGnome]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

All this from "Plus" and "Animatic" who have never been to a pro-democracy event of the Red Shirts. I know that absolutely and without doubt. Such vitriol would never come from anyone with first-hand knowledge and observation of Red Shirt pro-democracy events. There is no correlation between these POV and reality on the ground with these people. I invite anyone to see for yourself as I am absolutely confident it would bear out my comments. So what prompts such negative and unfounded commentary about the Red Shirts? I can only speculate. And should I be woefully wrong about "Plus" and "Animatic" having been to their events, than what would cause them to misrepresent the pro-democracy Red Shirts so vehemently. Again, I can only speculate. They are clearly counting on the fact that the Farangs on this board have also never been near Red Shirt pro-democracy events and can be told misrepresentative information because they dont know any better. In my sincerity, I invite you to join me to see for yourself. It would put the lie to "Plus" and "Animatic".

They burned buses, attacked innocent shopkeepers at a local market, and parked a giant NGV truck near a crowded apartment complex to shield their movements. They are thugs and idiots. What difference does it make if they have gone to a red shirt rally or not? I know what the reds stand for, and I know who pays for them, and what he stands for. I don't like any of it, and I don't go.

Your senseless "you've never been to a rally" argument isn't an argument, its just a flame.

[animatic]

I have never been to a GOP or Democratic Party convention or rally in the USA,

But I sure know what they both stand for. Same here.

I would find it a poor decision to put myself in harms way at a typical red function.

I might ask questions that they didn't like the answers to for example.

I have been following Veera and his crew since 2005-6,

when I first thought Thaksin was good for Thailand.

As time went on I realized my earlier opinions were grossly distorted,

I had bought the Thaksin propaganda too well, and I changed my mind.

Through 2006 I watched Thaksin essentially mentally implode with hubris,

and made increasingly poor choices. That chain of errors continues,

especially when he is under pressure. Songkran 2009 for example.

Nothing since early 2006 has done anything but reinforce that change in my position,

and many things have strengthened it. 'Voice of Thaksin'... brilliant PR.

No Red Shirt hagiography will cover over their obvious deficiencies.

It may help them win more donations for the Save Thaksin election fund.

43 million declared is not chicken feed and is considerably above what

all other parties have gotten if not globally. No doubt the under the table funds

for all sides, will be substantial, but this is still a good indicator of the lay of the land now.

Edited July 21, 2009 by animatic

[grandpops]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

"........a larger percentage of Thai's obviously like them...." If that was true Animatic, Abhisit and his friends would be tripping over themselves getting to an election. By-elections are key indicators of the way political winds are blowing. The last two weren't even close. If you are correct and Abhisit was elected, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But he hasn't won one yet. It is the one-person-one-vote process that is important for me, and for Abhisit and friends, this is the big problem. It is my understanding that previous Democrat Party administrations were very unresponsive to the voter, who put them out-to-pasture. This lack of electoral success is not by accident. There is a reason, and therefore a very good reason we can't see Abhisit for dust when someone mentions an election.

Like the Abhisit approval ratings of 70% last week . If he truly believed he could get 40% there would be an election tomorrow. The Songkran events after the last putch and the Iranian post poll gatherings will make it even more difficult for them to cram him back into power (not that they actually managed to get him into power in the rigged elections) at next election.... should they ever have another free and fair one. Any popularity was shamelessly bought,(in the same vein they accuse Thaksin of) with free electricity and water, 2,000 baht a head and the proposed massive borrowing they are talking about.

The jaded old PAD tag team seem to be loosing the plot these days. I notice the new venem when they attack you!

At least SRJ is helping promote the new Thaksin magazine for him. Must be hedging his bets for when he comes back.

Edited July 21, 2009 by grandpops

[LawnGnome]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

"........a larger percentage of Thai's obviously like them...." If that was true Animatic, Abhisit and his friends would be tripping over themselves getting to an election. By-elections are key indicators of the way political winds are blowing. The last two weren't even close. If you are correct and Abhisit was elected, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But he hasn't won one yet. It is the one-person-one-vote process that is important for me, and for Abhisit and friends, this is the big problem. It is my understanding that previous Democrat Party administrations were very unresponsive to the voter, who put them out-to-pasture. This lack of electoral success is not by accident. There is a reason, and therefore a very good reason we can't see Abhisit for dust when someone mentions an election.

Like the Abhisit approval ratings of 70% last week . If he truly believed he could get 40% there would be an election tomorrow. The Songkran events after the last putch and the Iranian post poll gatherings will make it even more difficult for them to cram him back into power (not that they actually managed to get him into power in the rigged elections) at next election.... should they ever have another free and fair one. Any popularity was shamelessly bought,(in the same vein they accuse Thaksin of) with free electricity and water, 2,000 baht a head and the proposed massive borrowing they are talking about.

The jaded old PAD tag team seem to be loosing the plot these days. I notice the new venem when they attack you!

At least SRJ is helping promote the new Thaksin magazine for him. Must be hedging his bets for when he comes back.

Nice to see the dementia has finally set in, lol. Abhisit told people he will hold elections after the constitution changes are approved (Constitution changes that all parties are participating in, i might add). He is an honorable man, and I will look for the election at that time. Will you stop with your moronic "He wasn't elected" diatribe. No leader is elected here. Not one single leader has ever been elected by a popular vote. Your endless repeating of this statement is never going to make it come true.

[Plus]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

All this from "Plus" and "Animatic" who have never been to a pro-democracy event of the Red Shirts. I know that absolutely and without doubt. Such vitriol would never come from anyone with first-hand knowledge and observation of Red Shirt pro-democracy events. There is no correlation between these POV and reality on the ground with these people. I invite anyone to see for yourself as I am absolutely confident it would bear out my comments. So what prompts such negative and unfounded commentary about the Red Shirts? I can only speculate. And should I be woefully wrong about "Plus" and "Animatic" having been to their events, than what would cause them to misrepresent the pro-democracy Red Shirts so vehemently. Again, I can only speculate. They are clearly counting on the fact that the Farangs on this board have also never been near Red Shirt pro-democracy events and can be told misrepresentative information because they dont know any better. In my sincerity, I invite you to join me to see for yourself. It would put the lie to "Plus" and "Animatic".

So, how about that timeline? It's still wrong, regardless of whether I've been to their rallies or not. And what do you mean by "unfounded"? There were no red rallies on those days? Reds didn't throw bags of shit and urine? That dude didn't flash? His picture was all over the papers.

I dont' see anything but a flame in your post - no facts, no arguments, no clarifications, no case to present, just a mindless rant against fellow TV members.

[MILT]

In all this discussion about Taskin I think most folks have forgotten that Thaskin barelly won his first election because of hiding millions of baht to maids drivers Wife kids. What happened behind the scenes who knows but he won by the skin of his arse. He was corrupt from day one!

[Ferwert]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

"........a larger percentage of Thai's obviously like them...." If that was true Animatic, Abhisit and his friends would be tripping over themselves getting to an election. By-elections are key indicators of the way political winds are blowing. The last two weren't even close. If you are correct and Abhisit was elected, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But he hasn't won one yet. It is the one-person-one-vote process that is important for me, and for Abhisit and friends, this is the big problem. It is my understanding that previous Democrat Party administrations were very unresponsive to the voter, who put them out-to-pasture. This lack of electoral success is not by accident. There is a reason, and therefore a very good reason we can't see Abhisit for dust when someone mentions an election.

Like the Abhisit approval ratings of 70% last week . If he truly believed he could get 40% there would be an election tomorrow. The Songkran events after the last putch and the Iranian post poll gatherings will make it even more difficult for them to cram him back into power (not that they actually managed to get him into power in the rigged elections) at next election.... should they ever have another free and fair one. Any popularity was shamelessly bought,(in the same vein they accuse Thaksin of) with free electricity and water, 2,000 baht a head and the proposed massive borrowing they are talking about.

The jaded old PAD tag team seem to be loosing the plot these days. I notice the new venem when they attack you!

At least SRJ is helping promote the new Thaksin magazine for him. Must be hedging his bets for when he comes back.

Nice to see the dementia has finally set in, lol. Abhisit told people he will hold elections after the constitution changes are approved (Constitution changes that all parties are participating in, i might add). He is an honorable man, and I will look for the election at that time. Will you stop with your moronic "He wasn't elected" diatribe. No leader is elected here. Not one single leader has ever been elected by a popular vote. Your endless repeating of this statement is never going to make it come true.

Wow Animatic, Plus and Lawngnome, I touched a nerve. My sincerity in Post #13 is spooking you. Also my first-hand knowledge of pro-democracy Red Shirts and direct involvement with them is a problem for you. There is a credibility concern for those whose opinions have been formed exclusively on the basis of an accumulation of misrepresentations from second-hand sources, primarily the anti-democracy PAD/new politics and their media outlets. I can see why I could be a threat. " With all due respect, "Me thinks they protest too much" There seems to be an ossified opinion here that refuses open-minded reconsideration. I cannot change that and will not try. I will merely reply to your commentary, by both debunking it, showing it up for what it is, and speak over your head to those who enjoy hearing from someone with primary researched opinions, instead of those with only secondary sourced opinions. To that end, I have been pleasantly surprised at several of you who have used the direct messaging option on this board, to provide me with direct feedback. Again, I invite those of you and my fellow political junkies who wish, to join me at the next pro-democracy event, and we will watch it from the sidelines. End of July in BKK. As mentioned before, the pro-democracy Red Shirts have the utmost respect and admiration for Farangs, simply by virtue of coming from electoral, democratic traditions. My only rejoinder to the aforementioned posters, is to refer you back to my Post #13. I cannot offer a better POV.

[Ferwert]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

All this from "Plus" and "Animatic" who have never been to a pro-democracy event of the Red Shirts. I know that absolutely and without doubt. Such vitriol would never come from anyone with first-hand knowledge and observation of Red Shirt pro-democracy events. There is no correlation between these POV and reality on the ground with these people. I invite anyone to see for yourself as I am absolutely confident it would bear out my comments. So what prompts such negative and unfounded commentary about the Red Shirts? I can only speculate. And should I be woefully wrong about "Plus" and "Animatic" having been to their events, than what would cause them to misrepresent the pro-democracy Red Shirts so vehemently. Again, I can only speculate. They are clearly counting on the fact that the Farangs on this board have also never been near Red Shirt pro-democracy events and can be told misrepresentative information because they dont know any better. In my sincerity, I invite you to join me to see for yourself. It would put the lie to "Plus" and "Animatic".

They burned buses, attacked innocent shopkeepers at a local market, and parked a giant NGV truck near a crowded apartment complex to shield their movements. They are thugs and idiots. What difference does it make if they have gone to a red shirt rally or not? I know what the reds stand for, and I know who pays for them, and what he stands for. I don't like any of it, and I don't go.

Your senseless "you've never been to a rally" argument isn't an argument, its just a flame.

Please see my rejoinder post #21

[Ferwert]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

"........a larger percentage of Thai's obviously like them...." If that was true Animatic, Abhisit and his friends would be tripping over themselves getting to an election. By-elections are key indicators of the way political winds are blowing. The last two weren't even close. If you are correct and Abhisit was elected, that wouldn't be a problem for me. But he hasn't won one yet. It is the one-person-one-vote process that is important for me, and for Abhisit and friends, this is the big problem. It is my understanding that previous Democrat Party administrations were very unresponsive to the voter, who put them out-to-pasture. This lack of electoral success is not by accident. There is a reason, and therefore a very good reason we can't see Abhisit for dust when someone mentions an election.

Like the Abhisit approval ratings of 70% last week . If he truly believed he could get 40% there would be an election tomorrow. The Songkran events after the last putch and the Iranian post poll gatherings will make it even more difficult for them to cram him back into power (not that they actually managed to get him into power in the rigged elections) at next election.... should they ever have another free and fair one. Any popularity was shamelessly bought,(in the same vein they accuse Thaksin of) with free electricity and water, 2,000 baht a head and the proposed massive borrowing they are talking about.

The jaded old PAD tag team seem to be loosing the plot these days. I notice the new venem when they attack you!

At least SRJ is helping promote the new Thaksin magazine for him. Must be hedging his bets for when he comes back.

Nice to see the dementia has finally set in, lol. Abhisit told people he will hold elections after the constitution changes are approved (Constitution changes that all parties are participating in, i might add). He is an honorable man, and I will look for the election at that time. Will you stop with your moronic "He wasn't elected" diatribe. No leader is elected here. Not one single leader has ever been elected by a popular vote. Your endless repeating of this statement is never going to make it come true.

Please see my rejoinder in Post #21

[Ferwert]

..During the heyday (airport) days of the anti-democracy PAD, the pro-democracy movement began to form. ...

I think you got your timeline wrong. The airport was the end of PAD protests, and reds were born long before that.

In fact they took on the red color during the Surayud government, when PAD was comletely silent and they held the first pro-Thaksin demonstration. General anti-junta rallies in those days didn't have any particular colors, except, perhaps, black.

On the day PAD started it's second wave of protests, when they held a meeting at Thammasat, anti-PAD protesters threw bags of shit and urine at them and one even flashed his genitals.

Should that be counted as a birthday of reds as force to counter the "anti-democracy PAD"?

All this from "Plus" and "Animatic" who have never been to a pro-democracy event of the Red Shirts. I know that absolutely and without doubt. Such vitriol would never come from anyone with first-hand knowledge and observation of Red Shirt pro-democracy events. There is no correlation between these POV and reality on the ground with these people. I invite anyone to see for yourself as I am absolutely confident it would bear out my comments. So what prompts such negative and unfounded commentary about the Red Shirts? I can only speculate. And should I be woefully wrong about "Plus" and "Animatic" having been to their events, than what would cause them to misrepresent the pro-democracy Red Shirts so vehemently. Again, I can only speculate. They are clearly counting on the fact that the Farangs on this board have also never been near Red Shirt pro-democracy events and can be told misrepresentative information because they dont know any better. In my sincerity, I invite you to join me to see for yourself. It would put the lie to "Plus" and "Animatic".

So, how about that timeline? It's still wrong, regardless of whether I've been to their rallies or not. And what do you mean by "unfounded"? There were no red rallies on those days? Reds didn't throw bags of shit and urine? That dude didn't flash? His picture was all over the papers.

I dont' see anything but a flame in your post - no facts, no arguments, no clarifications, no case to present, just a mindless rant against fellow TV members.

Please see my rejoinder in Post #21

[LawnGnome]

Please see my rejoinder in Post #21

[/quote

Thanks for wasting all of our bandwith.... I didn't need to be on scene to see the red shirt monkeys attacking shopkeepers, or burning buses, or parking an NGV truck next to a residential apartment, and frankly I am glad I was not "on scene". It was all on CNN and BBC, for everyone to see. (Are CNN and BBC now part of the PAD conspiracy?) I didn't need to attend a red shirt rally to know that no red shirts were killed in the military intervention, as you muppets continue to claim, because there is no photographic evidence to prove you correct. In the age of mobile phone cameras, the fact that their are no pictures, means in never happened.

I will now be referring all of your subsequent posts to my post here. Should help to clear up the matter.

[animatic]

Donations and funds raised speak more than ANY amount of dubious low head count polling results.

Shoot the messenger if you don't like the message, standard tactics.

As if farangs have no other soucres of social information than TVF,

The Nation, The Post and Bangkok Pundit... like we don't know any

Thais personally and never speak with them about the state of the affairs.

More absurdities to back dubious POVs.

Funny: "touched a nerve" as if we twitch when you speak.

No, we just don't buy these spurious, though eloquently stated, comments

and choose to refute them. Likely their Thaksin party line spuriousness causes

multiple responses from multiple commenters.

Any politician who follows anything resembling 'populist policies',

IE. anything that helps a large segment of the population in need

is labeled a 'shameless buyer of votes'.

When their side does it, then it's OK; he is a man of the people, helping the poor.

When the opposition does it, they are copy cats and SHAMELESSLY pandering for votes.

No hypocritical dichotomy here? Certainly yes.

And when an argument can't be defended, flame the other side and ignore the argument entirely.

Maybe the target audence will forget the concepts presented if you ignore them.

yada yada yada.

Rigged elections?

Didn't Samak and PPP WIN the last 'rigged elections'? Oh yes they did.

But the also cheated, as is their habit, and were removed from the scene.

Did they not believe that their professed huge majority was enough to win if they DIDN'T cheat???

Guess so, the popular vote was within 1% of 'dead even' for the Dems and the PPP.

Not exactly a HUGE mandate. Just enough to be leader, as long as they lasted.

Last parliamentary vote for PM did elect Abhisit and the coalition surrounding the Democrats.

Was it rigged? Well pretty much in the same way ANY THAI ELECTION IS RIGGED.

He who has corralled the most power wins. Same as always.

I see a lot of whining at the Democrats taking power, but none about

WHY THE PTP COULDN'T HOLD NEWIN'S FACTION.

Why was that, the ARMY scared Newin??? Righty O. Ya think?

How about Newin couldn't stand most of the PPP remains in PTP,

and couldn't imagine working UNDER Chalerm for an instant.

Not coincidentally Newin jumped ship RIGHT AFTER meeting Thaksin and wife

at dinner, with Chalerm, in Hong Kong, at which 'The Couple' announced their 'divorce'.

What did he see happening for the future of PTP under Thaksin and Chalerm?

I doubt his conclusion after that dinner was a pretty picture.

He came home and immediately started shopping his faction. Wonder why?

And so the ball game changed... Coincidence.. not likely.

Newin had an up close and personal with Thaksin on the run

and Dr. T. came up wanting big time.

Big enough to cause a huge, nation changing, party split.

So now we have 6-7 months of the Dems slowly working to fix things in a moribund economy,

if you have little to work with it doesn't go as fast. But they are making progress enough to

get 43 MILLION in fund raising, far far out stripping the next closest competitor.

They have set policies, and goals and benchmarks and are moving towards them.

PTP is parroting nothing but opposing views regardless if those opposite views

have ANY logic to them.

One side working toward fixing things, the other just being negative

and holding seminars, mostly about Thaksin cheerleading.

The PTP platform is bring Thaksin home and he can fix everything.

And the Democrats can't fix anything. Remember how good it was under Thaksin?

Never bringing up the facts:

The WORLD economy was in great shape during Thaksin's time

He had little to FIX, the previous governments took the hit for painful needed decisions.

Thaksin is uneligible to run or work in politics.

They are selling him as their product, and that is against the law since he is banned.

He will spend more time in court than anywhere else unless they cause another coup.

And he has added charges of fomenting insurrection during Songkran.

The security apparatus has finally started taking a firm hand vs their street thugs,

and causing enough chaotic violence to allow a coup will be less possible.

PTP may win a few by-elections, but the big show is farther off and PTP have no policies.

And if their tactics resemble those of TRT and PPP, they will again be caught cheating.

If they over-sell Thaksin, then they also could be broken up for illegal campaigning.

43 vs 12 mil., a not inconsiderable difference in confidence from the public.

The PM job here is like juggling a dozen chainsaws.

Anyone trying this can not POSSIBLY keep them ALL in the air 24/7,

to keep most moving and not cutting off a foot is admirable in the best of times,

in the worst of times it is herculean.

Edited July 22, 2009 by animatic

[LawnGnome]

Ferwert has got Animatic's dander up, what a beautiful thing!. And Animatic just opened up a giant can of whup' ass. Time to leave the news clipping forum posting to the big boys i think, lol.

[emancipationthailand]

Nothing subtle at all,

they got more money legally donated, and reported, by far than your favorite poster boys.

Spin it all you like, but some larger percentage of Thais obviously like them.

Maybe because, for a change, they see somebody actually doing something besides

bring back Thaksin any way they can.

Actually to compare countries PTP is much more GOP than the DEMs by far.

Both currently on the ropes from not understanding the public mood in general.

I'll wait for the next general elections to see the truth public sentiment.

[Plus]

Wow Animatic, Plus and Lawngnome, I touched a nerve. My sincerity in Post #13 is spooking you.

I, frankly, don't ***care*** about your "sincerety". You are very low on facts and avoid arguments, so you have nothing to add to the discussion, at least in this thread.

Not interested.

[ThNiner]

Ferwert has emerged as Koo82 began to fade. Interesting!!! (Wonder if these two actually met each other at one of the reds "peaceful" "pro-democracy" rallies)