Who's A Dirty Old Man?

[caf]

Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

How about rich men who stay home and do the same thing in their own country? That seems perfectly OK. Why is it any worse going to another place where you are the "rich" guy?

Maybe with the safety net of welfare/social security in a richer western society, the young women/men are seen as having a choice in the matter whereby in an impoverished country, third parties observing/attaching a stigma might see the older man as taking advantage of people with little or no choice.

However a 'dirty old man' in my eyes conjures up images of a raincoat clad pervert in Soho looking both ways before clandestinely ducking through a doorway into a peepshow and 5 minutes later scurrying away trying to be invisible.

Regards Bojo

With the present tendency to put a video onTV to prove a point, were you actually able to get a vid of this pervert.

Actually I hadn't thought of the social side in the west as a factor. I think you have a strong point.

[Ulysses G.]

Someone who is starving has a case for not having much choice, but no one in Thailand is starving. There are plenty of poor people in almost every country including developed ones.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[MonsieurHulot]

Maybe with the safety net of welfare/social security in a richer western society, the young women/men are seen as having a choice in the matter whereby in an impoverished country, third parties observing/attaching a stigma might see the older man as taking advantage of people with little or no choice.

Regards Bojo

Excellent point, Monsieur Bojo.

[soic]

Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

How about rich men who stay home and do the same thing in their own country? That seems perfectly OK. Why is it any worse going to another place where you are the "rich" guy?

Going to an impoverished country to me seems like taking advantage... but it can be true in any society. I don't mean to exclude any culture or country... I was only referring to the current location of the post.

[Puwa]

Hard to abstain on such an entertaining topic. My guiding principles, in the form of cheap aphorisms:

1) In general, people are ridiculous and we do silly things.

2) Death is inevitable and formidable, and our apprehension of it leads us down strange paths.

3) Since there is no God, in the final analysis one is only accountable to his own conscience and to society. Therefore, people with little conscience, or skewed conscience--meaning they can't empathize with others-- who live in a permissive society can basically do as they please without a second thought.

4) The more one tries to explain his actions, the worse he looks.

5) Men have a lot of trouble reading women's intentions, and guessing at them publicly generally just evokes pity.

6) It takes a lot of work, tolerance, and compromise for a foreigner to be genuinely respected in Thai society.

7) My wife tells me that the older I get, the more attractive I am.

8) Puwa's 4th rule of living happily in Thailand (from the forthcoming "Puwa's 10 Rules to Living Happily in Thailand"): Avoid all unnecessary contact with other farang.

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Puwa,

Very interesting set of aphorisms on offer there : could you "discount me" (noat, dai mai ?) if I popped for all eight ?

On #3 : could I order a custom version which implies that those without conscience never have even the "first" thought ?

On #4 : could I order a custom version on which you will append : ", but the more one examines one's own actions using your best attempt at dispassionate loving rationality, the more free one is of concern with appearances." ?

On #6 : could I order a custom version that includes the word "surrender" ?

On #7 : could I order a version which slightly modifies the first statement with : ", but I never mistake kind flattery for love."

On #8 : could I order a version that slightly modifies the first statement with : ", except for those I have found to be wholesome."

I understand that creating a "custom set" will take your time and energy, of course; I am only asking for a ballpark figure on price at this time.

best, ~o:37;

Dear Valued Customer,

Here at Puwa House, we strive to give you the ultimate shopping experience. Our products utilize only the best materials, freshest ingredients, and old-world craftsmanship. Our state-of-the-art, 24-hour call center is manned by highly trained representatives.

As to your inquiry, you can place the order, but there's a 6-month backlog. Sam down in R&D has informed me that some of this custom work might not turn out the way you expect. And Lois in billing says that with all these changes, the aphorisms will no longer come cheap.

We'd also like to inform you of our new corporate vision statement: "Shit like an elephant, sting like a bee, we're not pineapples, here in Saraphi."

Sincerely,

Pornping Boonsawat

Executive Vice President

Customer Relations

[bojo]

Going to an impoverished country where money can buy, rent or enchant you a young nubile female/male that you couldn't otherwise win with your personality, physique or status; that could be a qualifier as a "dirty old man/lady".

How about rich men who stay home and do the same thing in their own country? That seems perfectly OK. Why is it any worse going to another place where you are the "rich" guy?

Maybe with the safety net of welfare/social security in a richer western society, the young women/men are seen as having a choice in the matter whereby in an impoverished country, third parties observing/attaching a stigma might see the older man as taking advantage of people with little or no choice.

However a 'dirty old man' in my eyes conjures up images of a raincoat clad pervert in Soho looking both ways before clandestinely ducking through a doorway into a peepshow and 5 minutes later scurrying away trying to be invisible.

Regards Bojo

With the present tendency to put a video onTV to prove a point, were you actually able to get a vid of this pervert.

Actually I hadn't thought of the social side in the west as a factor. I think you have a strong point.

The evidence is on a betamax tape, anyone got a machine? I hope no-one calls my bluff.

Regards Bojo

[caf]

Someone who is starving has a case for not having much choice, but no one in Thailand is starving. There are plenty of poor people in almost every country including developed ones.

You are right Ulysses plenty of people starving in Thailand and the developed countries. What you fail to understand is that the situation is worse in Thailand. Most thais do not have enough money to eat to acceptable western standards, to afford serious healthcare in emergencies, or to pursue matters in a court.

Widen your experiences.

[Ulysses G.]

Very few Thais go to bed hungry. It something that they are very proud of. As far as health care and law fees, there are plenty of Americans who can not afford them either. Poor is poor in any country.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[bojo]

Thailand has a huge food surplus and exports the excess. One of the reasons the government will defend it's actions as to why a foreigner cannot own land, is for that very reason.

I don't live in a rural area so I can't comment of how poor, the poor really are and whether they can afford to eat a well balanced and nutritious diet. I suspect that in times of bad harvest, or a serious health problem in the family that the case is often quite dire and maybe a nutritious meal is not always found. However in the city and tourist areas that I have visited, the Thais seem well fed.

I don't think that being able to afford law fees is an appropriate barometer for measuring if people are poor or not. Poor people who could afford legal fees would probably lose their case if they we're to face someone/a body with more wealth than them.

Poor doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot afford to eat, in my eyes, it means that 'the poor' have less than everyone else and is most definitely relative from country to country. A man without a car in the UK might be considered poor in some people's eyes, (unless he's got an R1 of course) but certainly would not be here in Thailand. An interesting topic but we've drifted away from the dirty old man brigade.

Regards Bojo

[caf]

Very few Thais go to bed hungry. It something that they are very proud of. As far as health care and law fees, there are plenty of Americans who can not afford them either. Poor is poor in any country.

Now i know you don't get out much to the real thailand.

They may not go to bed hungry. I didn't say that. read what i did say.

Can they afford to give milk to their children for example? Usually NO

I agree healthcare and legal fees are high everywhere. But some operations needed in the states although expensive can be paid for by the family . Not so in thailand. They are left to die in the comfort of their own home. Can they afford the high fees charged in the states NO

A son fitted up and incarcerated. Can they afford a lawyer fee to get him out? NO

[caf]

Thailand has a huge food surplus and exports the excess. One of the reasons the government will defend it's actions as to why a foreigner cannot own land, is for that very reason.

I don't live in a rural area so I can't comment of how poor, the poor really are and whether they can afford to eat a well balanced and nutritious diet. I suspect that in times of bad harvest, or a serious health problem in the family that the case is often quite dire and maybe a nutritious meal is not always found. However in the city and tourist areas that I have visited, the Thais seem well fed.

I don't think that being able to afford law fees is an appropriate barometer for measuring if people are poor or not. Poor people who could afford legal fees would probably lose their case if they we're to face someone/a body with more wealth than them.

Poor doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot afford to eat, in my eyes, it means that 'the poor' have less than everyone else and is most definitely relative from country to country. A man without a car in the UK might be considered poor in some people's eyes, (unless he's got an R1 of course) but certainly would not be here in Thailand. An interesting topic but we've drifted away from the dirty old man brigade.

Regards Bojo

As you say an interesting topic. Threads drift on Thaivisa and when that happens an answer needs to be given often to correct something or put it in perspective.

Replies also reflect, obviously, posters own experiences ( as you rightly say) but some expats here have absolutely no idea how the rest of Thailand lives.

How they live is up to them but it is disingenuos for them to make sweeping statements outside of their experience. ( that is not a reference to you as i indicated above)

[eek]

Most people wish to try create some kind of improvement for their families. I also get the impression that there is a lot of pressure in many families for the children to look after their parents (and possibly other family members). There is nothing to fall back on here (social security). One way for the girls to provide for her family well is through selling her body. Of course there is a difference between starving and not, but the options of being able to provide decent income to help support themselves as well as parents is limited. I imagine if there were more access to good education and thus good job prospects, less girls (and boys) would see prostitution as the only route to make decent money. These basic things (education, social security, etc) are available in the west, so i imagine that is why most of us think that if a person works in that industry, its more a choice. However, i really think that for most men and women, its never their first choice or desired choice and usually out of desperation.

[Ulysses G.]

'caf' date='2009-07-28 12:47:47' post='2902408']

Now i know you don't get out much to the real thailand.

They may not go to bed hungry. I didn't say that. read what i did say.

Can they afford to give milk to their children for example? Usually NO

I agree healthcare and legal fees are high everywhere. But some operations needed in the states although expensive can be paid for by the family . Not so in thailand. They are left to die in the comfort of their own home. Can they afford the high fees charged in the states NO

Many Thais have a big problem digesting milk, so they might be better off without it anyway. They rely more on soy products and fish for protein which are tradititional food in S.E. Asia and not so expensive. As such a big expert on the "real" Thailand, are you really claiming that human beings can not live without milk?

Are you saying that no Thais can afford legal fees or doctor bills? Who are those little brown people that I see all over the place that can do both? I know lots of poor Thais who have put the money together for these things when they needed to. Don't forget, the prices are much more affordable than Western countries.

Maybe you mean that the poor have difficulty paying for these things, but again, that is true in many countries. Lots of people in the West are one paycheck away from being homeless and can not afford a hospital or a lawyer either and others are homeless already.

Even places with socialized medicine often have very, long waits to see a doctor for free.

Being poor is a struggle in any country.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Now i know you don't get out much to the real thailand.

They may not go to bed hungry. I didn't say that. read what i did say.

plenty of people starving in Thailand and the developed countries. What you fail to understand is that the situation is worse in Thailand. Most thais do not have enough money to eat to acceptable western standards.

Widen your experiences.

These are your own words.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Chaimai]

You can buy a whole lot of milk if your daughter is sending back 2 or 3 thousand Baht a month because "Dirty Old Men" are purchasing her services.

[Ulysses G.]

That is true, or dirty young men in a traditional Thai brothel where many girls from poor familys make money to help the family. Not many old guys go there.

[orang37]

Thailand has a huge food surplus and exports the excess. One of the reasons the government will defend ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Bojo,

I think such generalities are not too useful. Did you know that Thailand imports soy-beans from Brazil ?

Many important sources of foreign exchange revenue for Thailand (rice, processed frozen chicken parts, shrimp, canned pineapple, so on) are not evenly distributed for domestic consumption around the country (and, of course, some are). It is more valuable I think to look at regional patterns of agriculture, regional fertility and viability of soil and weather conditions for certain types and ranges of crops, to get much more specific.

To describe what is exported as "excess" is, imho, putting the cart before the horse. The declining fertility and arability of much Thai land has to do with loss of natural eco-systems (the mountains stripped bare of teak and other trees no longer function as effective watersheds and water control leading to flooding and erosion that carries away valuable top-soil) : the mountains are stripped because exporting teak and hardwood brought big money, and that money went into the hands of a few, not many. And the stripping has just moved on to Laos and Cambodia, still controlled by Thais, I am told.

While agricultural "poverty" has always been "buffered" in the past by relatively low-cost shelter (you live on your little piece of land), the "bounty of nature" (you eat from your little garden and trade with your neighbors or barter to round out your diet) : we live in very different times now. But even long ago in certain agriculturally very barren areas (like in Issarn) the young folks had to go somewhere to make cash.

I think to say that the Kingdom tightly controls land ownership because of agricultural issues is focusing on a peripheral, secondary factor : there are much more profound cultural and social and political dimensions of that policy.

In this country we are only 150 years away from a time when every Thai person had a nominal "price on their head" under the "sakdina" system : their value described in terms of the value of a certain area of arable rice-land. And during those times 90% of the population were down in the lowest rungs of the "sakdina" system in terms of value, and most Thai (men) had to provide at least three months of labor (corvee) to whoever was their local ruler/admintrator.

On the other hand the great fertility of Thai river valleys that allows two crops of rice a year also create interesting patterns of need, at times, for intense social co-operation, such as when transplanting the seedlings, as well as periods of relatively low-labor input demand.

However, there were (and are ?) certainly prosperous farmers long ago such as those David Wyatt describes in his scholarly work on literacy in the pre-modern era who regularly "checked out" books from the libraries of Wats (Wyatt's research focused on historical records in Nan).

best, ~o:37;

[orang37]

That is true, or dirty young men in a traditional Thai brothel where many girls from poor familys make money to help the family. Not many old guys go there.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun UG,

I'll take your word for these "factoids."

But I'd be curious to see some statistics (no interest in seeing the brothels, thanks) on brothel usage by Thai men of differing ages. I bet some has been done.

I did wander into a Japanese type massage place in Bangkok once while walking way out on Petchburi Road, and before they threw me out as an unwanted "gaijin" (non-Japanese) I caught a glimpse of the most stunning young women (I'd estimate most as under twenty) all sitting in lovely kind of "ball gowns" behind glass waiting, I guess, for Mr. Tokyo. That was twelve years ago when I didn't know better than to walk into some place like that because I was curious what the Japanese were doing.

I also have no doubt that at its worst there is "sexual slavery" in this country today. Its extent I have no idea of. I also know from personal experience that some northern Thai families in the Chiang Rai area feel a beautiful daughter is a "bankable" future asset for the family, and there is expectation she will spend a number of years working in the "demimonde."

I was spending the night with a Japanese woman I fell in love with in Bali, about ten years ago at a Ryokan (a spa) in the Izu Peninsula (our room was US $1200 for the night) : while walking between the outdoor male-only hot baths and our room a whole troop of about forty women, all very good-looking filed by me : they looked Thai, so I started saying "Sawadee Khrup" : most of them were nodding their heads and smiling back at me. But they marched on, single-file, as if in military formation. I asked, through my Japanese friend, our resident maid (the room came with our own servant) what those women were doing, who they were, and I was told they were here to "entertain" the businessmen.

Processed chicken parts and rice are not Thailand's only export. And perhaps some of those women are as imprisoned in the trade as the chickens of the CP group are in their giant henhouses ?

best, ~o:37;

[Ulysses G.]

Processed chicken parts and rice are not Thailand's only export. And perhaps some of those women are as imprisoned in the trade as the chickens of the CP group are in their giant henhouses ?

Yes, some are used as calateral for loans by their family, but this is mostly in the Thai on Thai sex trade which dwarfs the one for foreigners. These modern day sex slaves are a sad story indeed.

[Chaimai]

That is true, or dirty young men in a traditional Thai brothel where many girls from poor familys make money to help the family. Not many old guys go there.

U.G. - I beg to differ

[bojo]

Thailand has a huge food surplus and exports the excess. One of the reasons the government will defend ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Bojo,

I think such generalities are not too useful. Did you know that Thailand imports soy-beans from Brazil ?

Many important sources of foreign exchange revenue for Thailand (rice, processed frozen chicken parts, shrimp, canned pineapple, so on) are not evenly distributed for domestic consumption around the country (and, of course, some are). It is more valuable I think to look at regional patterns of agriculture, regional fertility and viability of soil and weather conditions for certain types and ranges of crops, to get much more specific.

To describe what is exported as "excess" is, imho, putting the cart before the horse. The declining fertility and arability of much Thai land has to do with loss of natural eco-systems (the mountains stripped bare of teak and other trees no longer function as effective watersheds and water control leading to flooding and erosion that carries away valuable top-soil) : the mountains are stripped because exporting teak and hardwood brought big money, and that money went into the hands of a few, not many. And the stripping has just moved on to Laos and Cambodia, still controlled by Thais, I am told.

While agricultural "poverty" has always been "buffered" in the past by relatively low-cost shelter (you live on your little piece of land), the "bounty of nature" (you eat from your little garden and trade with your neighbors or barter to round out your diet) : we live in very different times now. But even long ago in certain agriculturally very barren areas (like in Issarn) the young folks had to go somewhere to make cash.

I think to say that the Kingdom tightly controls land ownership because of agricultural issues is focusing on a peripheral, secondary factor : there are much more profound cultural and social and political dimensions of that policy.

In this country we are only 150 years away from a time when every Thai person had a nominal "price on their head" under the "sakdina" system : their value described in terms of the value of a certain area of arable rice-land. And during those times 90% of the population were down in the lowest rungs of the "sakdina" system in terms of value, and most Thai (men) had to provide at least three months of labor (corvee) to whoever was their local ruler/admintrator.

On the other hand the great fertility of Thai river valleys that allows two crops of rice a year also create interesting patterns of need, at times, for intense social co-operation, such as when transplanting the seedlings, as well as periods of relatively low-labor input demand.

However, there were (and are ?) certainly prosperous farmers long ago such as those David Wyatt describes in his scholarly work on literacy in the pre-modern era who regularly "checked out" books from the libraries of Wats (Wyatt's research focused on historical records in Nan).

best, ~o:37;

Mr.Orange, you are to your credit obviousely well read, educated and informed. I'm impressed.

In the fast paced world of TV sometimes one has to generalise to reach a quick conclusion/making a point in a post. To politely slate me as you have regarding 'making such generalities are not too useful' is maybe correct from a scholarly point of view but I think that considering we we're discussing in general mouths being fed, that a sweeping statement wasn't out of place and if you look at my posts you will see that they are usually fairly concise and that I leave the long winded stuff for others.

No, I didn't know about the importation of soya means, thanks for the info, but overall Thailand still has a food surplus.

Of course there are other issues as to why the Kingdom will or will not allow foreign ownership, but we we're discussing food availability and the 'poor' in this post, I don't know why you would deem it necessary as to point that out, other than to have a little dig at me, is it really necessary?

Regardless I thank you for your more in depth analysis, information is always welcome in my house.

I've just noticed that again we are so far away from 'those dirty old men'!

Regards Bojo

[caf]

'caf' date='2009-07-28 12:47:47' post='2902408']

Now i know you don't get out much to the real thailand.

They may not go to bed hungry. I didn't say that. read what i did say.

Can they afford to give milk to their children for example? Usually NO

I agree healthcare and legal fees are high everywhere. But some operations needed in the states although expensive can be paid for by the family . Not so in thailand. They are left to die in the comfort of their own home. Can they afford the high fees charged in the states NO

I have highlighted the inconsistencies of your argument.

Many Thais have a big problem digesting milk, so they might be b

etter off without it anyway. They rely more on soy products and fish for protein which are tradititional food in S.E. Asia and not so expensive. As such a big expert on the "real" Thailand, are you really claiming that human beings can not live without milk?

I did not claim to be an expert or that people can not live without milk. But there are those that want to buy milk and can not afford it. Nothing to do with problems digesting

Are you saying that no Thais can afford legal fees or doctor bills? Who are those little brown people that I see all over the place that can do both? I know lots of poor Thais who have put the money together for these things when they needed to. Don't forget, the prices are much more affordable than Western countries.

I did not say no Thai can afford these fees but many can not. I'm not sure I like the reference to " those little brown people" but perhaps other posters and moderators think that is acceptable. Yes some Thais can afford healthcare and legal fees, some will struggle to get money for operations as I said, but others can not afford it. period.

Maybe you mean that the poor have difficulty paying for these things, but again, that is true in many countries. Lots of people in the West are one paycheck away from being homeless and can not afford a hospital or a lawyer either and others are homeless already.

Even places with socialized medicine often have very, long waits to see a doctor for free.

Being poor is a struggle in any country.

Yes I agree completly. This is not a purely Thai problem. There are more safety nets in the west though. A man needing a heart by-pass in the UK may have to wait, not get a private room, put up with poor food and a dirty hospital but he will be treated. Not automatically so in thailand. No pay. No operation.

Please do not get personal. You and I are both entitled to our opinions. But yours do seem rather poorly researched. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the average Thai.

[eek]

I dont really think it matters whether a Thai or Westerner or any nationality is purchasing more or less of these kinds of services. People are people. However, you would think that those with a higher education would make more informed decisions...whatever those may be. But I guess nobody likes to look inside the snow globe. Takes too much of the magic away.

[rixalex]

Why feel sorry for a younger woman being with an older man? There is much that an older man has to offer - life experiences to start with. Not just money. Furthermore, older men appreciate much more than younger men. It's really great to be appreciated. I have found that younger women here in Thailand love to be truly appreciated - often for the first time in their lives.

Of course all men, young and old, should treat their partners with respect and truly appreciate them, but that respect and appreciation must be returned in equal measure. In some relationships, that doesn't seem to be the case. There also seems to be an imbalance of power, especially when the man has accepted that most big possessions, such as houses, cars and motorbikes, be held in the woman's name. The woman may then feel like she can make any demand she wishes, knowing that for the man, the threat of separation will mean more to him than it does to her. Such relationships are usually very unhealthy.

I've seen examples of this with both partners of a similar age, and when there is a large age difference, so i'm not suggesting that it's only the older men with young wives who fall into this trap, but my guess would be there's a greater chance of this happening, especially if the man is a lot older and harbours insecurities of the woman being more physically attracted to younger men.

[Ulysses G.]

I have highlighted the inconsistencies of your argument. Please do not get personal. You and I are both entitled to our opinions. But yours do seem rather poorly researched.

You did not have any substantial answer to my statements. You just repeated the same thing over again. Why bother to respond with such pap? Why bother to respond at all?

You tell me not to get personal, but you do, and then add a condescending comment: "You and I are both entitled to our opinions. But yours do seem rather poorly researched". In case you have not figured it out, I would say exactly the same thing about you.

You are the one getting personal and not just with me. In fact, the last few days, you have had to add a little comment to almost every post, which were designed to push people's buttons. Here are a few:

Give it a rest blinky. You're like an old gramaphone record. Your posts are getting meaningless

I can only quote your own words " What a ridiculous thing to say"

Widen your sources of information.

You have a way with words, benjie. Not a very accurate way it must be admitted. But I suppose you do have a way of sorts

"the ignorant, uneducated neanderthals who worked in the woods." there but for the grace of god goes ian forbes. "to lower myself to their standards" how terribly distasteful for you.

In the past, you have been a fairly polite poster and I and others have been polite in return. I normally don't attack people unless they are rude to me first.

I don't know what bee has gotten in your bonnet lately, but when you make a habit of attacking other posters for little reason, you can expect to get it back in spades. Is it really worth it?

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[venturalaw]

Thailand has a huge food surplus and exports the excess. One of the reasons the government will defend it's actions as to why a foreigner cannot own land, is for that very reason.

I don't live in a rural area so I can't comment of how poor, the poor really are and whether they can afford to eat a well balanced and nutritious diet. I suspect that in times of bad harvest, or a serious health problem in the family that the case is often quite dire and maybe a nutritious meal is not always found. However in the city and tourist areas that I have visited, the Thais seem well fed.

I don't think that being able to afford law fees is an appropriate barometer for measuring if people are poor or not. Poor people who could afford legal fees would probably lose their case if they we're to face someone/a body with more wealth than them.

Poor doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot afford to eat, in my eyes, it means that 'the poor' have less than everyone else and is most definitely relative from country to country. A man without a car in the UK might be considered poor in some people's eyes, (unless he's got an R1 of course) but certainly would not be here in Thailand. An interesting topic but we've drifted away from the dirty old man brigade.

Regards Bojo

As you say an interesting topic. Threads drift on Thaivisa and when that happens an answer needs to be given often to correct something or put it in perspective.

Replies also reflect, obviously, posters own experiences ( as you rightly say) but some expats here have absolutely no idea how the rest of Thailand lives.

How they live is up to them but it is disingenuos for them to make sweeping statements outside of their experience. ( that is not a reference to you as i indicated above)

How is it that you are able to detect what is 'outside' another person's experience?

[Ulysses G.]

The same way that he knows that anyone who does not drink cow's milk is starving to death.

[orang37]

How is it that you are able to detect what is 'outside' another person's experience?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Venturalaw,

I find that a "beauteous" question; it reminds me of when I sat on my mama's forepaws back in Kalimantan, before the cruel man came to capture me, to sell my body/soul/mind into bondage in a Thai private zoo where I had to act like a monkey to get food and water.

Mama Orang, whose lovely full name was "Oompaapaamaomao," used to recite for me some of the Melon Level One sayings of Ur-Orang in her exquisite contralto grunting.

One of which was : "You are aware from the inside out, but you experience from the outside in; both are illusions which can be kind of 'groovy' in their own way once you get the hang of them."

I'm sorry the "poetry," the "musicality" of that cannot be expressed in any human language except perhaps in Xhosa click-and-glottal-stop parley-vous.

Thanks for the memory of mama's mammaries, best, ~o:37;

[Blinky Bill]

Our dear friend caffa is suffering from delusions of grandeur it would seem. He tries to convince himself that he is making intelligent posts, but sadly, he is lacking somewhat.

My good old friend, EweGee, has taken the time to highlight some of caffa's more notable posts..........

Give it a rest blinky. You're like an old gramaphone record. Your posts are getting meaningless

I can only quote your own words " What a ridiculous thing to say"

Widen your sources of information.

You have a way with words, benjie. Not a very accurate way it must be admitted. But I suppose you do have a way of sorts

"the ignorant, uneducated neanderthals who worked in the woods." there but for the grace of god goes ian forbes. "to lower myself to their standards" how terribly distasteful for you.

For someone who has made so few educated posts he sure likes to put others down. Guess he spent too much time at Wetherspoons.

[Blinky Bill]

Well, despite what everyone has had to say on this post, it is my honest opinion, and I am sure that of some others, that poverty has done for some men what alcohol has done for some women.........

Even the old, fat, ugly and unintelligent can get laid sometimes.