My Wife's Miscarriage

[EndofDays]

My wife just had a miscarriage of our baby who was at five months. It happened while she was returning and she started to hurt and fell down at the aiport. I work in Iraq and so we communicate by both phone and emails. It is still pretty surreal to me and is just now starting to hit, I think. My wife is very Buddhist and very devoted. I, on the other hand, am about as heathonous as you can get. I guess my question is, will wife see this loss as something to do with karma on my part or her part. I told her that is is not her fault and that these things happen in life. I can tell that I feel guilty as I wish I could have been there with her or been with her at the hospital. A lot of things run though my head. I should have traveled with her back to Thailand so I could have taken care of her and those thoughts rack me constantly now. Every day it actuallys weighs heavier on me now, time doesn't seem to be healing this wound just yet. My greatest fear is that she will blame herself for something she has done or even have a thought of it. I said she should go to the temple with her family when she can get up and walk again. When I pressed the point it is not her fault she just cries again. I am used to taking charge and I cannot with this situation and I don't want her to feel any guilt about this. What is the Buddhist belief on this kind of subject? What are the karma aspects and any type of rituals associated with it. I want to thank NeverDie with his assiatance durring this time as he helped me make contact through emails and phone calls. Communication out of this country is bad at the best of times.

[fabianfred]

As far as I can see it.... 99.999% of all things happen because of the law of karma..

The childs karma was to have its life cut short.

your wife and you suffer mentally...also the result of PAST karma.

The important thing is that you.... all three of you....are paying off the past karmic debt.

We should be haPPY TO pay off past karmic debt.... even though it is usually in the form of suffering.....much better than forming new debt by creating new karma...by doing wrong and causing suffering to others.

If you wife can use the internet then ask her to go to this website and share her troubles or concerns with my teacher.... a Thai lady and mother and housewife...who is very advanced upon the Buddhist path.

http://www.supawangreen.in.th/

[agent69]

First of all, I am sorry for the loss.

A buddhist would believe that this is due to the past karma from the past or the current lives. Whatever that negative karma was, it's all done. They would also believe that someone wanted to be born as her baby. If they had made together enough merits in their past lives, they will always be another chance.

Most buddhists, when they lost someone, they would normally make merit (สังฆทาน - sangha than) at the temple by giving some certain items to monks. You wife may already know this but it pays to remind her. Best way for you would be giving her all the support you best possibly can physically and mentally. Remind her and yourself of making good deeds, refrain from the bad. I would say that is commonsense, but a lot of people take things for granted and failed to realise.

I hope all will be good for both of you.

[neverdie]

Endofdays,

My friend, I am sorry, as I've told you before I haven't walked this road. My thoughts are with both you and your lovely wife during this aweful time, I don't have much good Karma available but what I have, I've packaged up and sent your way. You already know the rest of my feelings on this matter.

Please don't tell the forum I do nice things, it doesnt fit with my bad boy image

Stay strong and email or telephone anytime

[EndofDays]

As far as I can see it.... 99.999% of all things happen because of the law of karma..

The childs karma was to have its life cut short.

your wife and you suffer mentally...also the result of PAST karma.

The important thing is that you.... all three of you....are paying off the past karmic debt.

We should be haPPY TO pay off past karmic debt.... even though it is usually in the form of suffering.....much better than forming new debt by creating new karma...by doing wrong and causing suffering to others.

If you wife can use the internet then ask her to go to this website and share her troubles or concerns with my teacher.... a Thai lady and mother and housewife...who is very advanced upon the Buddhist path.

http://www.supawangreen.in.th/

That is hard for me to accept that Buddhism would make an unborn child pay for past bad karma of someone else. I know that my wife shouldn't have to pay for what I have done in my past. I don't want her to have to believe something like that. Others should not have to suffer for others karma.

[EndofDays]

First of all, I am sorry for the loss.

A buddhist would believe that this is due to the past karma from the past or the current lives. Whatever that negative karma was, it's all done. They would also believe that someone wanted to be born as her baby. If they had made together enough merits in their past lives, they will always be another chance.

Most buddhists, when they lost someone, they would normally make merit (สังฆทาน - sangha than) at the temple by giving some certain items to monks. You wife may already know this but it pays to remind her. Best way for you would be giving her all the support you best possibly can physically and mentally. Remind her and yourself of making good deeds, refrain from the bad. I would say that is commonsense, but a lot of people take things for granted and failed to realise.

I hope all will be good for both of you.

When my wife is able to walk a little better and not hurt as much as she does when she tries to walk she and her family will go to the temple. Being who I am all I can do is just curse the heavens. I have seen a lot of death in my time but this much worst even though I am several thousand miles away. I had ideas of everything would be with our first child and this didn't even cross my mind. I just hope that it helps my wife if it can.

[EndofDays]

Endofdays,

My friend, I am sorry, as I've told you before I haven't walked this road. My thoughts are with both you and your lovely wife during this aweful time, I don't have much good Karma available but what I have, I've packaged up and sent your way. You already know the rest of my feelings on this matter.

Please don't tell the forum I do nice things, it doesnt fit with my bad boy image

Stay strong and email or telephone anytime

I don't want to ruin your image but you are good bloke. If it helps I can tell everybody here you still obviously cuss alot which your wife is ashamed of. Anyways, thanks for your help and it is good to know that there are still good people out there.

[Mike45]

My wife just had a miscarriage of our baby who was at five months. It happened while she was returning and she started to hurt and fell down at the aiport. I work in Iraq and so we communicate by both phone and emails. It is still pretty surreal to me and is just now starting to hit, I think. My wife is very Buddhist and very devoted. I, on the other hand, am about as heathonous as you can get. I guess my question is, will wife see this loss as something to do with karma on my part or her part. I told her that is is not her fault and that these things happen in life. I can tell that I feel guilty as I wish I could have been there with her or been with her at the hospital. A lot of things run though my head. I should have traveled with her back to Thailand so I could have taken care of her and those thoughts rack me constantly now. Every day it actuallys weighs heavier on me now, time doesn't seem to be healing this wound just yet. My greatest fear is that she will blame herself for something she has done or even have a thought of it. I said she should go to the temple with her family when she can get up and walk again. When I pressed the point it is not her fault she just cries again. I am used to taking charge and I cannot with this situation and I don't want her to feel any guilt about this. What is the Buddhist belief on this kind of subject? What are the karma aspects and any type of rituals associated with it. I want to thank NeverDie with his assiatance durring this time as he helped me make contact through emails and phone calls. Communication out of this country is bad at the best of times.

EndofDays I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. You and your wife have sustained a terrible loss and it will take time and grieving before you are through it. Is there any way you can be together during this difficult time?

Best of luck to the both of you.

Mike

[fabianfred]

That is hard for me to accept that Buddhism would make an unborn child pay for past bad karma of someone else. I know that my wife shouldn't have to pay for what I have done in my past. I don't want her to have to believe something like that. Others should not have to suffer for others karma.

not the karma of someone else...but karma we produced in a previous life,,

Nobody suffers for karma they haven't produced.

Our inability to see our past lives causes us to find this difficult to accept....unless we already believe in the law of karma.

[garro]

Like every one else I am very sorry about what happened to you and your wife. I don't think anyone here will be able to give your a real reason for why this happened. Your job is to convince your wife that it is not her fault.

[agent69]

When my wife is able to walk a little better and not hurt as much as she does when she tries to walk she and her family will go to the temple. Being who I am all I can do is just curse the heavens. I have seen a lot of death in my time but this much worst even though I am several thousand miles away. I had ideas of everything would be with our first child and this didn't even cross my mind. I just hope that it helps my wife if it can.

it's good to have someone to talk to. And monks are wise bunch of people. They can give different perspectives to things.

I am not going to claim to be an expert to parenthood. From what I have known miscarriage is sadly common. My sister had mentioned that she had had miscarriage twice, although she did not get into much details. She now has two teenage children. One way to deal with something that seems out of our controls would be understanding it. there are a lot of information on the web about miscarriage. It is just a few keystrokes away.

[EndofDays]

EndofDays I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. You and your wife have sustained a terrible loss and it will take time and grieving before you are through it. Is there any way you can be together during this difficult time?

Best of luck to the both of you.

Mike

She is pretty adamant about me staying here to work. She wants to be strong for me I know. It woulde take about seven to ten days to get out of here and to Thailand. I already have my vacation lined up to see her in eight weeks. It is hard though being this far away.

[Mike45]

EndofDays I am sorry for your loss. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. You and your wife have sustained a terrible loss and it will take time and grieving before you are through it. Is there any way you can be together during this difficult time?

Best of luck to the both of you.

Mike

She is pretty adamant about me staying here to work. She wants to be strong for me I know. It woulde take about seven to ten days to get out of here and to Thailand. I already have my vacation lined up to see her in eight weeks. It is hard though being this far away.

If you can't be with her then talk to her as much as you can. Just making sure you know what she is thinking and helping to focus her on the right things will help both of you.

All my best

Mike

[EndofDays]

Like every one else I am very sorry about what happened to you and your wife. I don't think anyone here will be able to give your a real reason for why this happened. Your job is to convince your wife that it is not her fault.

I am calling her every day, it takes a few times to get out of here but I get through finally. It is more my fault as I should have sent her to thailand much earlier and accompanied her myself before heading off to work here.

[EndofDays]

it's good to have someone to talk to. And monks are wise bunch of people. They can give different perspectives to things.

I am not going to claim to be an expert to parenthood. From what I have known miscarriage is sadly common. My sister had mentioned that she had had miscarriage twice, although she did not get into much details. She now has two teenage children. One way to deal with something that seems out of our controls would be understanding it. there are a lot of information on the web about miscarriage. It is just a few keystrokes away.

The human body is so fragile at times and easily broken but I guess it is the spirit that is what keeps you strong. I know my wife has that in her.

[garro]

Like every one else I am very sorry about what happened to you and your wife. I don't think anyone here will be able to give your a real reason for why this happened. Your job is to convince your wife that it is not her fault.

I am calling her every day, it takes a few times to get out of here but I get through finally. It is more my fault as I should have sent her to thailand much earlier and accompanied her myself before heading off to work here.

It is not your fault. Miscarriages just happen. Don't beat yourself up for nothing. Good luck to you both.

[mc2]

As far as I can see it.... 99.999% of all things happen because of the law of karma..

The childs karma was to have its life cut short.

your wife and you suffer mentally...also the result of PAST karma.

The important thing is that you.... all three of you....are paying off the past karmic debt.

We should be haPPY TO pay off past karmic debt.... even though it is usually in the form of suffering.....much better than forming new debt by creating new karma...by doing wrong and causing suffering to others.

If you wife can use the internet then ask her to go to this website and share her troubles or concerns with my teacher.... a Thai lady and mother and housewife...who is very advanced upon the Buddhist path.

http://www.supawangreen.in.th/

sorry to hear about the OPs loss.

i think from a buddist perspective, the karmic debt isnt paid off until the event has been resolved properly, which means learning whatever lessons are needed to be learned from this situation.

a lot of good advce already

[zzaa09]

Endofdays,

My friend, I am sorry, as I've told you before I haven't walked this road. My thoughts are with both you and your lovely wife during this aweful time, I don't have much good Karma available but what I have, I've packaged up and sent your way. You already know the rest of my feelings on this matter.

Please don't tell the forum I do nice things, it doesnt fit with my bad boy image

Stay strong and email or telephone anytime

You are a scholar and a gentlemen, Neverdie!

[mc2]

neverdie can be helpful when he is not being a bad boy, helped me out once too ;-) although he hasnt been too nice to me of late

Edited July 25, 2009 by mc2

[EndofDays]

Like every one else I am very sorry about what happened to you and your wife. I don't think anyone here will be able to give your a real reason for why this happened. Your job is to convince your wife that it is not her fault.

I am calling her every day, it takes a few times to get out of here but I get through finally. It is more my fault as I should have sent her to thailand much earlier and accompanied her myself before heading off to work here.

It is not your fault. Miscarriages just happen. Don't beat yourself up for nothing. Good luck to you both.

It is hard not to, though. I should have taken her back to Thailand first, that way I could have helped her and made sure went through less stress.

[EndofDays]

neverdie can be helpful when he is not being a bad boy, helped me out once too ;-) although he hasnt been too nice to me of late

NeverDie is an Ozzie. The fact that he cannot do what normnal Ozzie's do, especially in Thailand......well, he has to make up for it in other ways. We should be lucky he doesn't have MORE of a potty mouth. He is good bloke, though, and really helped me durring this time. Without his assistance, I think I would have cracked for sure. Thanks again, NeverDie.

[EndofDays]

I think what is tearing me up the most is that I wasn't there. That I should have taken her to Thailand before coming to work over here. I should have been the one carrying everything. I only hope that the baby didn't feel any pain. It would kill me inside if I knew the baby felt anything before it died. I think I would hate the world over that.

[neverdie]

Geeeezus you blokes.....ur making me blush... well something like that anyway. Please stop, I feel you should be talking about the issue at hand, not me, I am a prick.

mc2, its okay, really deep down i like you .

end of days, things are never going to be exactly the same as they were before, unfortunately its a part of living and as we move through the various experiences all of us carry some baggage from what we have been exposed to. Like yourself, with various tours of the sandy hole iraq, you will agree that it has changed your outlook on things. Having said that, time is a magic thing, it can help numb pain and even make you a stronger person. Your a lucky bugger because you managed to find a decent lady and a caring family as well and despite this tragedy you will get through this I am sure.

anyway, hopefully the times ahead are going to be alot kinder to the both of you. Now get ur backside to LOS.

[EndofDays]

Geeeezus you blokes.....ur making me blush... well something like that anyway. Please stop, I feel you should be talking about the issue at hand, not me, I am a prick.

mc2, its okay, really deep down i like you .

end of days, things are never going to be exactly the same as they were before, unfortunately its a part of living and as we move through the various experiences all of us carry some baggage from what we have been exposed to. Like yourself, with various tours of the sandy hole iraq, you will agree that it has changed your outlook on things. Having said that, time is a magic thing, it can help numb pain and even make you a stronger person. Your a lucky bugger because you managed to find a decent lady and a caring family as well and despite this tragedy you will get through this I am sure.

anyway, hopefully the times ahead are going to be alot kinder to the both of you. Now get ur backside to LOS.

Hopefully we can hoist a cold one soon (coke or pepsi in a bag). Iraq always changes you, no matter you try to help or try to change they will stab you when you are not looking. There are a few hopeful signs and some good people but I hope they don't get lost in the morass that is Iraq. It is better than before but they seem to forget how they got to this point. The pain the butt thing is that I keep seeing things that remind me. I bought a whole lot of Dallas Cowboy baby clothes for the baby and now my wife has to put them away for now. I came across a post that said "post your thai/farang baby" and I just wanted to jump and down on somebody's head. I see pictures of a baby on a pog (what is used for currency around here) and that gets me going. Holy poop, a Whitsenake song almost had me in tears...just not used to this. And like I wrote earlier and and wrote to NeverDie, I would curse god or whovever is in charge if that baby felt any pain. I derserve the pain, I can handle the pain..not a child who never stood a chance.

[neverdie]

end of days, you are right, you could of flown with your wife and carried all the bags and your taxi could of rolled over on the way to or from the airport and killed all three of you (you, the wife & baby). You didnt do anything unreasonable or anything that any of us wouldnt of done. Hindsight is a real biatch and PLEASE don't beat yourself up using hindsight, its destructive and takes you nowhere.

I pméd you about the other issue. I hope all of this is helping you through this.

[EndofDays]

end of days, you are right, you could of flown with your wife and carried all the bags and your taxi could of rolled over on the way to or from the airport and killed all three of you (you, the wife & baby). You didnt do anything unreasonable or anything that any of us wouldnt of done. Hindsight is a real biatch and PLEASE don't beat yourself up using hindsight, its destructive and takes you nowhere.

I pméd you about the other issue. I hope all of this is helping you through this.

It lets me "air" things out so I think it helps. Yes, Hindsight is a pain but I have seem to be doing a lot of that lately. Have a safe one.

[bina]

for what its worth: miscarriages are not caused by a woman picking things up or carrying things unless they have been identified as having previous problems. thats why most women work in the fields or wherever they work until they give birth including me and all my women friends.

there is no real reason that u would have had to accompany your wife at five months pregnancy to go anywhere, since most women are not that large or cumbersome at that stage either.

no one really knows all the reasons for miscarriage, but often it is because of some defect in the fetus; hormonal problems, or other things that the doctors didnt see or werent noticed.

i was told when i almost lost my second child (when he was a two month old fetus) that it wouldnt matter if i stayed in bed rest or not, if i miscarried it would happen anyway, they suggested bed rest to help psychologically in that i would feel i was doing everything possible to prevent the miscarriage (i was in early pregnancy and the 'egg' had disengaged and moved in my womb. M. my son was happily stubborn and stuck around. but it easily could have gone the other way. )

there is no such thing as If only...., u couldnt be with her, she had to travel, end of story. now u have to help her and most of all help your self... if your wife is devout buddhist she will turn to the monks/wat on her own, and probably try to handle most of it on her own. also, dont underestimate the power of female family and friends (miscarriage is more common that u think just women dont discuss it with men, we discuss it with each other.)

the thai buddhists that i know DO see the unborn child as a person not as a sort of non entity. they do count them as children that just didnt make it out. so when discussing children, this baby will be included. (thai women friends all seemed to discuss their miscarriages using luk khon and not somthing more neutral. my husband's mother apparently miscarried and counts them among those of her children : 5 living children, three more died from diseases, two were miscarried. so remember that for your wife, this was indeed a child and not just a fetus.

as for your own feelings, well, i am not a man so cant help u there.

but in israel most folks here always say to wait a short time , and then retry as soon as possible barring other medical problems and advice from doctors. thai women dont like doctors (gyn ob, that is) so not sure how your wife is with that.

remember too that she will be going thru the usual hormonal changes that occur as if she gave regular full term birth; so hormones together with the loss of the child will be difficult.

sorry for your loss

bina

israel

[neverdie]

Great advice, thanks Bina, I am sure this will help endofdays. Theres nothing like hearing how it is from someone who has experienced this type of loss.

[EndofDays]

It was a child for me too. I will give her all the support that I can. Part of me believes I should have raced to Thailand, not actually race because it would take me a week to get from here to there. But my wife is so adamant that I stay here and finish work. My regular vacation time is in September and she wants me to wait then to come see her. She even said she is the boss now. I always kidded to her that she was the boss when dealing with buying things because it is your money and now she says she is the boss and for me to stay here and just come see her when I go on vacation. It will be an unusual meeting as I am apprehensive of how to act or if she will act differently. She will probably be her bubbly self.

[phetaroi]

It was a child for me too. I will give her all the support that I can. Part of me believes I should have raced to Thailand, not actually race because it would take me a week to get from here to there. But my wife is so adamant that I stay here and finish work. My regular vacation time is in September and she wants me to wait then to come see her. She even said she is the boss now. I always kidded to her that she was the boss when dealing with buying things because it is your money and now she says she is the boss and for me to stay here and just come see her when I go on vacation. It will be an unusual meeting as I am apprehensive of how to act or if she will act differently. She will probably be her bubbly self.

Oddly, this post reminded me of when my father passed. I visited him for the final time in the morning and the last thing he told me was that I was not to return to the funeral because I needed to be with "your kids" (I was a school principal) because "they need you. It's your purpose in life." He made me promise that, even though I strenuously objected. After extracting the promise, he told me he would pass as soon as I got home...a 6.5 hour drive. There's actually a lot more to the spooky side of this story, but suffice it to say that I arrived home at 6:00 p.m. He passed at 6:01.

I was criticized...well, condemned might be a better word...by some family members. But, do you break a promise you make someone on their death bed? I don't think so. And so I went to school on the day of his funeral...which wasn't easy...and then went to the Catholic Church (his faith and once mine) that evening.

After several years of reviewing the situation, I still think I did the right thing. I followed his wishes. I had to let go of my own desire to do what I wanted, and do what my father wanted me to do.

It seems in your posts that your wife is sincere in her wishes of how to handle the situation. Assuming that she is, I believe you should let go of the control and fulfill her wishes.

My best wishes for both of you.