Illegal Hypnosis

[Digitalbanana]

In the past I have heard of strangers stealing money from people by hypnosis in Thailand but found it rather hard to believe with examples such as giving all ones money from an ATM to a stranger.

Recently I was alerted to an issue close to home whereby construction crew workers were getting beneficial work rates because they were negotiating them with some kind of hypnosis on the owner. We found this out as we are neighbors and now have this construction crew off our list of intended contractors when our turn comes to get some work done. Methods described included very close face to face eye contact during negotiations, touching an arm during conversation whereby the victim gets a smudge of some balm or ointment and general smooth talking whereby the owner agrees to everything including price to do the job.

Personally as a foreigner I found the stories hard to believe, but my Thai spouse said it was a serious issue, she called it “Gang Dtok Tong” and said reporting such incidents to the police were not uncommon?

I was left wondering how the police could possibly follow up such incidents with no real evidence? Any experiences?

[Soutpeel]

In the past I have heard of strangers stealing money from people by hypnosis in Thailand but found it rather hard to believe with examples such as giving all ones money from an ATM to a stranger.

Recently I was alerted to an issue close to home whereby construction crew workers were getting beneficial work rates because they were negotiating them with some kind of hypnosis on the owner. We found this out as we are neighbors and now have this construction crew off our list of intended contractors when our turn comes to get some work done. Methods described included very close face to face eye contact during negotiations, touching an arm during conversation whereby the victim gets a smudge of some balm or ointment and general smooth talking whereby the owner agrees to everything including price to do the job.

Personally as a foreigner I found the stories hard to believe, but my Thai spouse said it was a serious issue, she called it "Gang Dtok Tong" and said reporting such incidents to the police were not uncommon?

I was left wondering how the police could possibly follow up such incidents with no real evidence? Any experiences?

Like you, think, these stories are absolute <deleted>.....hypnosis only works if somebody allows it...you cant be put under against your will...Rumour, urban legend and superstition only....

Reading your post gave me visions of the comedy Little Britain and the hypnotist in that....."Look into my eyes....Look in to my eyes....

[DP25]

said reporting such incidents to the police were not uncommon?

Maybe the reporting of such incidents to the police happens. If I got ripped off I'd rather tell my wife that I was hypnotized or had magic cream rubbed on me rather than admit I was a fool.

[Scott]

So if someone is going to rub 'magic cream' on your arm, make sure he is wearing a latex glove otherwise you will both be hypnotized and that would be the blind leading the blind.

[Samuian]

Deception - is the word!

Delusion -

"Hypnosis" stand for the excuse in those cases!

[Digitalbanana]

The word (3 words actually) is apparently "Gang Dtok Tong". Anyone heard about it from a Thai perspective rather than an outsiders, as to me, an outsider, it sounds <deleted> also? The Thais seem to take it extremely seriously.

[hhgz]

"In the past I have heard of strangers stealing money from people by hypnosis in Thailand... I was alerted to an issue close to home whereby construction crew workers were getting beneficial work rates because they were negotiating them with some kind of hypnosis on the owner....Methods described included very close face to face eye contact during negotiations, touching an arm during conversation whereby the victim gets a smudge of some balm or ointment and general smooth talking whereby the owner agrees to everything including price to do the job."

Another example of a wasted public school education. Perhaps that's how his wife got him to marry her.

[Samuian]

The word (3 words actually) is apparently "Gang Dtok Tong". Anyone heard about it from a Thai perspective rather than an outsiders, as to me, an outsider, it sounds <deleted> also? The Thais seem to take it extremely seriously.

Yes, so spirits and worshiping spirit houses!

But with a rational mind set, common sense -

how serious one can take those who claim to be "serious"

about this MamboJumbo?

Never ever been proven anywhere!

Wel, then there are those who claim it simply

can't be "proven" with earthly measures...

[neverdie]

Great thread. My thai gf use to be fairly protective of me in crowds, she was always fearful that another lady with 'black magic' powers would touch my arm and I would instantly become that ladies property. She was serious too.

You would have to be fairly good at this type of Hypnosis to get money out of me my friend, I'm as tight as a fishes backside & we all know thats watertight .

Sorry, I don't believe this.

[rgs2001uk]

The word (3 words actually) is apparently "Gang Dtok Tong". Anyone heard about it from a Thai perspective rather than an outsiders, as to me, an outsider, it sounds <deleted> also? The Thais seem to take it extremely seriously.

Yes, so spirits and worshiping spirit houses!

But with a rational mind set, common sense -

how serious one can take those who claim to be "serious"

about this MamboJumbo?

Never ever been proven anywhere!

Wel, then there are those who claim it simply

can't be "proven" with earthly measures...

The Thais seem to take it extremely seriously.

You need to increase your circle of Thai friends, or move away from darkest issan.

[Oberkommando]

Hypnosis is a convenient excuse for gullibility and stupidity.

[IanForbes]

Everybody please put your credit cards in this bag and include your secret password. God will take care of you as you go out the door.

[longstebe]

The CIA used hypnosis on people to carry out there dirty work.

[Harcourt]

Hypnosis is a convenient excuse for gullibility and stupidity.

I asked my GF what she thought of it: she said it's real....and I was suprised....but when she elaborated, her idea of gang dtok tong is that the expression means "scam".

[Digitalbanana]

You need to increase your circle of Thai friends, or move away from darkest issan.

[/b]

That was the idea of posting a question here about it, but obviously a waste of time. (Nothing to do with Issan btw!)

Interesting set of answers and aspersions cast that I did of course expect. Most reflect my own view so I cannot complain on what is basically a foreign portal of Thailand. With exception of Harcourt I see most haven't got any Thai friends to ask either? HHgz's comment doesn't do that poster any favors but water off a ducks back here. Guess I'll have to get on a Thai based forum to discuss from afar.

[zzaa09]

Indeed. Thai mysticism. Beware.....

[katana]

'Gang dtok tawng' from Thai Wikipedia:

The Dropped Gold Gang

The Dropped Gold Gang is a group of criminals that make a living by dropping a fake gold necklace in a populous area or market and pretend that they find it while the victim watches. The gold will be shared between them but there's no time to sell it so it's suggested to the victim to take off any valuables or money of less worth than the necklace they just found, in exchange for it. More often than not they'll give them to the gang rather than realize the necklace is fake and the gang disappears promptly with the valuables or money. Reports of this scam appear often in the Thai media but despite this people are still duped. Some victims report feeling groggy and dazed as if they've been daubed with some drug or hypnotized. Valuables are removed or money given to the gang without being aware.

Anyway, there's no clear evidence the gang use the aforementioned method and it's has been the view in the past of police investigating cases like this that it's due in part to the victim's greed.

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%81%E0%...%B8%AD%E0%B8%87

[paddydubai]

I am a professionally qualified hypnotherapist and would like to clear up a few misconceptions here.

Hypnotherapy is gaining increasing acceptance even among the conventional medical community as a very valuable curative tool, with applications ranging from anaesthesia to the elimination of phobias.

Actually, a very good hypnotist could hypnotise someone without their realising it. (And oddly enough, the procedure for doing this would quite typically include touching the person on the arm!)

However, no hypnotist on earth could persuade someone to do something that is against their own personal set of values and morals. There was quite a famous court case in Denmark in the 1970's, where a hypnotist was charged with hypnotising three men into robbing a bank. It was dismissed.

To focus on the case in question, if the hypnotist was so good at his art that he could make someone part with a large amount of money in the manner described, believe me, he is absoultely wasting his time working in the construction industry!

[zzaa09]

The word (3 words actually) is apparently "Gang Dtok Tong". Anyone heard about it from a Thai perspective rather than an outsiders, as to me, an outsider, it sounds <deleted> also? The Thais seem to take it extremely seriously.

I would think it would be a bit of a hardship to find anything but subjective views here - for all are 'outsiders'.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

In the past I have heard of strangers stealing money from people by hypnosis in Thailand but found it rather hard to believe with examples such as giving all ones money from an ATM to a stranger.

Recently I was alerted to an issue close to home whereby construction crew workers were getting beneficial work rates because they were negotiating them with some kind of hypnosis on the owner. We found this out as we are neighbors and now have this construction crew off our list of intended contractors when our turn comes to get some work done. Methods described included very close face to face eye contact during negotiations, touching an arm during conversation whereby the victim gets a smudge of some balm or ointment and general smooth talking whereby the owner agrees to everything including price to do the job.

Personally as a foreigner I found the stories hard to believe, but my Thai spouse said it was a serious issue, she called it "Gang Dtok Tong" and said reporting such incidents to the police were not uncommon?

I was left wondering how the police could possibly follow up such incidents with no real evidence? Any experiences?

Like you, think, these stories are absolute <deleted>.....hypnosis only works if somebody allows it...you cant be put under against your will...Rumour, urban legend and superstition only....

Sorry to rain on your parade but I think you will find you are almost completely wrong. Hypnosis does not require consent or even an awareness of participation. Ethical hypnosis does but the way the mind works does not.

And it is not hard to hypnotise someone against their will if they are either unable to escape (or indeed if they are unaware of what is happening).

Oh yes, and every compus mentis normal person in a normal state of mind (ie not psychotic or under the influence) can be hypnotised.

Sorry again.

Kev

Edited July 30, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[harrry]

Great thread. My thai gf use to be fairly protective of me in crowds, she was always fearful that another lady with 'black magic' powers would touch my arm and I would instantly become that ladies property. She was serious too.

You would have to be fairly good at this type of Hypnosis to get money out of me my friend, I'm as tight as a fishes backside & we all know thats watertight .

Sorry, I don't believe this.

Get worried if she starts grabbing other womens hands and putting them on your arm

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Great thread. My thai gf use to be fairly protective of me in crowds, she was always fearful that another lady with 'black magic' powers would touch my arm and I would instantly become that ladies property. She was serious too.

You would have to be fairly good at this type of Hypnosis to get money out of me my friend, I'm as tight as a fishes backside & we all know thats watertight .

Sorry, I don't believe this.

Get worried if she starts grabbing other womens hands and putting them on your arm

Well, hypnosis and black magic aren't really the same thing, though many Thais, understanding neither may equate them or draw a connection between them in the same way that it is believed the power of suggestion may be at the heart of the Australian Aboriginal 'pointing the bone'.

It is reasonable that 2 'mysterious' things should be associated in the mind of someone believing in back magic. For me, there is insufficient evidence to support a belief in black magic, and insufficient evidence to support a rejection.

Kev

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I am a professionally qualified hypnotherapist and would like to clear up a few misconceptions here.

Hypnotherapy is gaining increasing acceptance even among the conventional medical community as a very valuable curative tool, with applications ranging from anaesthesia to the elimination of phobias.

Actually, a very good hypnotist could hypnotise someone without their realising it. (And oddly enough, the procedure for doing this would quite typically include touching the person on the arm!)

However, no hypnotist on earth could persuade someone to do something that is against their own personal set of values and morals. There was quite a famous court case in Denmark in the 1970's, where a hypnotist was charged with hypnotising three men into robbing a bank. It was dismissed.

To focus on the case in question, if the hypnotist was so good at his art that he could make someone part with a large amount of money in the manner described, believe me, he is absoultely wasting his time working in the construction industry!

You are right of course, however, suppose that the value system of the subject were changed such that the desired action was then in accordance. As I recall, this was the basic investigation behind the Milgram experiments and others like them, where people have been manipulated into doing things clearly against their original (ie pre-manipulation) value systems. As I further recall, the experiments were designed to shed light n what could have motivated people like Eichmann to perpetrate the horrors of the holocaust, but I may be wrong.

A fine point, perhaps pedantic, for which I apologise - just can't help myself sometimes.

Getting to the OP, though, I doubt that what is described in the OP has anything to do with hypnosis, not as we understand it, especially not the 'balm' thing, even allowing for natural hallucinogens or psychoactives.

Kev

Edited July 30, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[brownlegs]

Theft by a form of hypnotism better called 'auto suggestion' is common in Thailand and should be taken seriously. How it is done has been explained and demonstrated by Derren Brown, the famous British TV Hypnotist, whereby he stops complete strangers and they give him all their valuable belongings............This form of theft with or without sedative drugs is a fact in Thailand and other countries.

[IanForbes]

I'm having trouble hypnotizing people on line over the computer. Any suggestions? I was hoping to pick up a few credit card numbers and passwords.

[smokie36]

I'm having trouble hypnotizing people on line over the computer. Any suggestions? I was hoping to pick up a few credit card numbers and passwords.

You would have got mine Ian, but you need to target punters who have a few baht.

Just ask any football chairman. Most seem to have a loyal following of gullible devotees.

Got to hypnotise them young.

Edited July 30, 2009 by smokie36

[sassienie]

I am a professional Hypnotist and it really does work.

Last week I saw a German tourist shopping at Tesco Lotus. I really fancied her, so I used some of my hypnotic powers.

Helga is pictured below following me home from Tesco lotus.

Question? Is this illegal?

WARNING

Do not try this at home.

[Allison77]

People have to want to be hypnotized for it to work.

“A hypnotic state is a state in which the conscious mind is so preoccupied or confused, that a thought created by a statement or by experience can bypass the critical factor and pass powerfully into the subconscious mind. If not removed by subsequent conscious logic, the thought will remain as an ongoing and powerful force.”

If accidental hypnosis worked officers of the law would use it all the time on criminals for confessions.

[zzaa09]

I am a professional Hypnotist and it really does work.

Last week I saw a German tourist shopping at Tesco Lotus. I really fancied her, so I used some of my hypnotic powers.

Helga is pictured below following me home from Tesco lotus.

Question? Is this illegal?

WARNING

Do not try this at home.

I reckon your dear Helga might be a wee bit overdressed for Lotus.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

People have to want to be hypnotized for it to work.

“A hypnotic state is a state in which the conscious mind is so preoccupied or confused, that a thought created by a statement or by experience can bypass the critical factor and pass powerfully into the subconscious mind. If not removed by subsequent conscious logic, the thought will remain as an ongoing and powerful force.”

This is a common perception, but a wrong one. You don't have to want hypnosis to work for it to do so, and indeed, sometimes, you just don't have any say in the matter, though this is not how it is usually undertaken, especially in a therapy context. Also, consciously logical argument will generally not remove a properly formed post hypnotic suggestion.

If accidental hypnosis worked officers of the law would use it all the time on criminals for confessions.

For hypnosis to be effective, it requires technique, it isnt just a question of waving a watch in front of someone.

Someone referred earlier to Derren Brown fleecing tourists. He is right, The ploy used is called the Russian Scam and (as the poster stated), it does not involve hypnosis.

There are so many mis-understandings about hypnosis that people naturally repeat what they have been told in the past. The following might help:

1. Hypnosis does not require the consent of the subject, and can be induced without the subjects knowledge but generally isn't, not by professionals anyway. Hypnosis is not a form of entertainment.

2. Hypnosis does not require the active participation of the subject, though it is generally easier with it, and professionals will generally get participation using methods which themselves can appear to he hypnotic..

3. Under hypnosis or by other psychological means, the subjects perception can be altered such that the subject will act against their values and normal morality (though this is nearly always difficult).

4. Hypnosis in one form or another can and is used to swindle people from time to time and there are many examples of this across the world. However, it is not easy and requires technique, confidence and balls of steel.

5. Most people are frightened of the idea of 'mind control' and therefore fear hypnosis. This is misplaced, hypnosis is a perfectly normal state and you will have drifted in and out of a hypnoidal state at various times today already.

6. Conversely, what many people describe as 'stage hypnosis' often isn't hypnosis at all, despite appearances.

7. Hypnosis is commonly used as a part of therapy and when used properly and in context, is often much more effective than other approaches to psychotherapy, though not as popular - due largely to misconceptions and mistrust.

Hope this helps, forum discussions about hypnosis can sometimes be unhelpful or unwittingly misinformed. Sometimes they can be all head and no beer too.

Kev

ps Please forgive the apparent plug, it isn't really a plug: you can learn how to use hypnosis in therapy and to influence people in business and personal life. As it happens, qualification courses are available in Bangkok - you can PM me for details if you want - but it isn't cheap - or easy.

Edited July 31, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson