No Visa :(

[Castor83]

so my girlfriend didnt get her visa

well at least i assume so, she got her passport back and all documents, but no visa inside. and she got like 10 extra pages, which unfortunately, she cant read! so i dunno what to do now. I gotta go to work and i'll just have to wait until she sends the pages on to my...

what a crappy day

[theoldgit]

Really sorry to hear that.

What she will have got is a letter from the ECO explaining reasons for the refusal, though I doubt very much if it would have been ten pages, unless she has a right of appeal.

It's the reasons for the refusal that needs to be fully addressed in any future application.

[boutya58]

Really sorry to hear about your visa Castor.

My GF collects hers tomorrow,so keeping fingers crossed for a positive result.

Im very nervous about the whole thing,first visa application.

Regards

Stephen

[true blue]

so my girlfriend didnt get her visa

well at least i assume so, she got her passport back and all documents, but no visa inside. and she got like 10 extra pages, which unfortunately, she cant read! so i dunno what to do now. I gotta go to work and i'll just have to wait until she sends the pages on to my...

what a crappy day

sorry for you and your g/f castor,you must be really down in the dumps,its a horrible feeling i no, maybe alls not lost yet see what they say,and get your appeal in.

[TickTock]

Really sorry to hear that.

What she will have got is a letter from the ECO explaining reasons for the refusal, though I doubt very much if it would have been ten pages, unless she has a right of appeal.

It's the reasons for the refusal that needs to be fully addressed in any future application.

Sad news Castor. When we get our refusal the note is about three pages long and then the appeals form is like a booklet. Get the Mrs to scan it and email it over to you. That's what we did. The decision was overturned within hours.

However, I might be getting you confused with someone else, apologies if that is the case, but did the Mrs have a colourful immigration history i.e overstay vv 4 yrs. I fear the worst...bans on applications for 10 yrs are banded around the UKBA website for Visa infringements. I hope you don't fall into that category. Good luck.

[teddy_bare]

so my girlfriend didnt get her visa

well at least i assume so, she got her passport back and all documents, but no visa inside. and she got like 10 extra pages, which unfortunately, she cant read! so i dunno what to do now. I gotta go to work and i'll just have to wait until she sends the pages on to my...

what a crappy day

i feel your pain. My WIFE was refused a tourist visa. The pages will be about 2 for the reasons and the rest are how to appeal and a list of legal helpers.

You have 30 days to appeal. They might overturn the ECO decision without the need for appeal, if you can satisfy the reasons for refusal. This can take up to 2 month and is generated at the British embassy in Bangkok. After that it goes to the UK for a hearing via the immigration services.

Read the reason for refusal many times as the style of writing is convoluted, contridictory and actually wrong!!!!. In my case.

My wife's application said to 'attend a wedding and meet family', The ECO stated 'to visit your husband' so they obviously thought I lived in the UK. i live with my wife in Bangkok and have been back to the UK once in 6 years! They also said the didn't beleive we have a genuine relationship, yet stated in the summery, 'whilst I am satisfied family life exist'. The UK visa company also failed to receive my bank statements on the initial application despite them being in the application pack that my wife and I put together and delivered personally.

So have a good read, and look at countering all the points individually. Some might make your blood boil, but you have to be as objective as possible and stick to facts. it's pointless trying to call them, as the automative system does not have a human interactive choice. The Brit Embassy won't help and when I called to ask about contact details for the visa dept they will only gave me an email address.

Anyway, i added a covering letter with my appeal and handed it into the Embassy. As I handed it over I indicated it was time specific as the wedding is on the 15th August and I was pretty much blanked.

Ho hum. I can't say I am overly impressed, or optimistic on getting to the wedding.

I hope you have good luck. PM me if needed

Edited July 28, 2009 by teddy_bare

[Castor83]

so my girlfriend didnt get her visa

well at least i assume so, she got her passport back and all documents, but no visa inside. and she got like 10 extra pages, which unfortunately, she cant read! so i dunno what to do now. I gotta go to work and i'll just have to wait until she sends the pages on to my...

what a crappy day

Hey all, thanks for the words of encouragement...

Yeah i am pretty down. I spoke to my girlfriend and her friend who lives near her, an english explained it briefly to me. She has emailed me all the pages so I will have a good read later...

it says basically 5 points, the guy told me 4 of them were not so serious. (not sure how he knows, but there ya go)

they were

1) they dont think i earn enough to support a wife and child. I showed payslips for 12 months varying between 1200-1400 a month - take home.

2) was I didnt put any bank statements in with the application. this was my own stupid fault. but basically as I had no money in there whatsoever i thought id be better off just supplying the payslips. i completely cleaned out my bank every month since shes been over there, sending her money and payin for flights and the trip over for my sons birth, the hospital fees etc.

3) was accomodation. i moved out of my place in to my parents as they have a bigger house. and apparently it says words to the effect of - im supposed to provide a place for them to live, not my parents. which agian i really dont understand. ftr it is a 4 bed house, with two bathrooms, my parents own it and they are the only people who live there. they wrote a letter in with the application.

4) was when my girlfriend left the uk, apparently they seem to think she was deported! god knows how they figured that out because i payed for the bloody ticket.

and 5 was the big one apparently.

that is because, well my girlfriend was on a fake visa when she came over here originally. now she wrote all about that in her cover letter. HOWEVER - on the application itself, they asked if she had ever been granted a visa for the uk. like an idiot when i was fillin it in, i wrote 'yes, a 6 month visa which she overstayed' because they dont give you much space and told them to refer to her cover letter for more details. And so this counts as deception. so basically we are screwed!

So i think ive pretty much blown about a grand and a half by being a divvy, not to mention ruining any chance i have of having my gf and son her for christmas...

Im not sure what to do now really. Should I bother appealing? and her friend told me, not that I really believe him, but if I dont appeal - then she cant simply apply again. he said, no thats it if she doesnt appeal in 28days (26 now)

the other thing i would like to kno is if it would make a difference at all if we married? because ive spent all day today with everyone tellin me "why dont you just get married, then they will have to give her a visa"

Now i kno its not that simple, but would this help?

I'm booked to go over there 7th of september so at the moment im thinkin i'll put the appeal in and then when im there we will get married just in case it doesnt happen. then we can reapply for a spouse visa... is this a good plan?

thanks for your time guys - I wish those of you still waiting better luck than me

ps what do you do for the appeal? simply hand in any evidence to argue the points they bring up? or do you literally hand in the WHOLE THING again + the extra evidence

[7by7]

The killer is her previous 4 years spent in the UK illegally; even though she did leave voluntarily (if I remember your previous posts correctly).

The requirements for a spouse visa are essentially the same as for a fiance, except for the spouse visa you are already married and for the fiance you marry once she is here. Therefore marrying her will not make any difference.

The refusal will include a notice of appeal form, and that must be returned within the time limit. Once that is submitted you can then prepare the appeal more thoroughly.

See Asylum and Immigration Tribunal for more about appeals.

Given the circumstances, I strongly suggest that you seek professional advice to help you with the appeal.

[Thongkorn]

Sorry to hear of your predicament. Getting married and applying for a settlement visa will be harder , You have to prove you can support your wife, you did not supply bank statements , And i think the biggest mistake was not returning, that will go against you for along time, hope for your sake it does not best wishes for the future.i think you should take legal advice and start again,

[Castor83]

The killer is her previous 4 years spent in the UK illegally; even though she did leave voluntarily (if I remember your previous posts correctly).

The requirements for a spouse visa are essentially the same as for a fiance, except for the spouse visa you are already married and for the fiance you marry once she is here. Therefore marrying her will not make any difference.

The refusal will include a notice of appeal form, and that must be returned within the time limit. Once that is submitted you can then prepare the appeal more thoroughly.

See Asylum and Immigration Tribunal for more about appeals.

Given the circumstances, I strongly suggest that you seek professional advice to help you with the appeal.

hey 7by7,

as always it would seem you're right.

"I note your attempt to explain the circumstances leading to you entering and remaining in the United Kingdom as an illegal entrant. You have further responded in the negative to Q64, that you have never been deported, removed or otherwise required to leave the UK.*

You also responded 'yes' to Q62 in your application form; that you have in the last 10 years, been granted a United Kingdom visa.** However, you have failed to provide evidence in support of this. Your explanatory statement with your application, however, does not detract from the fact that you showed blatant disregard to the UK immigration rules. All evidence and statements with your application satisfies me that you purposely set put to frustrate the intentions of the UK imigration rules. In light of the foregoin, I am satisfied that your application merits consideration under paragraphs 320 (7A) and (11) and I have duly done so.

Your application is therefore refused..."

* I didn't realise that by being here illegally she is "otherwise required to leave the UK"

** I was thinking that she had had a visa, even though it was not in her name. And I urged them to see her cover letter for more details.

I will be going to see a solicitor tomorrow or the next day... Although I'm starting to think it will be pointless. It depends whether they say she has decieved because I answered wrong to two questions on this application. Or by entering illegally in the past, she has decieved.

:S looks like I might be moving to Thailand. Which is a bit crap because I've spent my whole life working in a Casino! Plus I need to take medication everyday ...

[Castor83]

Sorry to hear of your predicament. Getting married and applying for a settlement visa will be harder , You have to prove you can support your wife, you did not supply bank statements , And i think the biggest mistake was not returning, that will go against you for along time, hope for your sake it does not best wishes for the future.i think you should take legal advice and start again,

Hey thanks. Yeah the no bank statements was a completely stupid thing. I was just speaking to my dad about it. I was kind of thinking that seens as there isn't any money in the account its pretty worthless, but like he said - it still shows the money going in and you can explain why it came straight out again.

Yeah she did return on her own. It took a while though because after we started dating (I knew her for a few years before from eating in the place she was working) I told her she had to stop working and go back to Thailand. She hadn't gone before because she thought they would put her in jail. Then of course I was supporting us both, so it took like 3 months for me to get the money for the ticket.

[theoldgit]

I am sorry I hadn't read your previous posts, but 7by7 is correct that the killer is the four years spent in the UK using someone else's visa.

It will not be impossible for her to get a visa but it's going to be an uphill struggle, I think the fact she has come clean could go in her favour. The facts of her earlier removal will play into the equation, was she deported or removed, there is a difference, or did she simply go home of her own will without coming to the attention of the authorities.

As others have said you really need some professional advice from an expert in this field, not all lawyers are experienced in Immigration Law and whilst lawyers are not required to be registered with OISC I would strongly advise that you do use one that is, I have sent you a pm with some suggestions.

Good luck

[7by7]

So not only did she overstay by 4 years, but the visa she entered with (and therefore the passport) was not in her name! (You didn't mention that in your earlier threads.)

Fraudulently using a visa and passport in another person's name is a lot more serious than simply overstaying. Of course it is deception, in fact it's fraud at the very least!

Also, because of human rights considerations, an overstay is not, by itself, grounds for refusal of a fiance application (Para 320(7C)*). It's the previous fraud that is the problem (Para 320(11)*).

I'm sorry, mate, but you are in for a long, hard struggle. I'm not saying that you wont succeeded, but it will be hard.

Best of luck. Hopefully the solicitor you are seeing is an immigration specialist, or if not that they can refer you to one who is.

*Immigration Rules.

[colino]

Sorry you got turned down I know the feeling.

My first encounter with them resulted in my wife being refused on two points, so we addressed these 2 points and submitted

the forms again, low and behold she gets refused again but this time on 4 different points.

This mad me so mad that I told the Embassy that i was convinced that they had a quota system in place X amount of visas per day.Which he denied. I told him that here I was 100% genuine,getting refused while by the lorry loads people where getting into England. and living the high life. pure madness.

Well after the 3rd attempt and an interview we got the visa,all that stress and hassle for a tourist visa

Colino

[Castor83]

Hey all,

So yeah I spoke to a solicitor today. He is an immigration specialist, going for a meeting with him tomorrow and going to see a different solicitor on monday. They both seemed confident, especially the first guy. Gonna cost around £2,000 though, which is a complete nightmare. He said it involves around 15 hours work and whilst he charges £250 an hour, he will do it for a flat 2k (Bless his heart )

He said I have two options. One is to appeal. The other option he said he will explain to me tomorrow when I meet with him, but it involves me travelling to Thailand. So not sure what that is.

He seems to think it basically all comes down to "well you have told us the truth, but you lied to us before. Which has annoyed us, so you can't have a visa!"

But we'll see. I'm sure we can get there in the end, just hope I still got enough fight in me by then.

The real sting for me is that if she had have just stayed here and had the baby, instead of doing "the right thing" and going back to reapply, we would all be together.

[the scouser]

Just be aware that because you may be in the south-east of the UK, doesn't mean that you have to pay south-eastern rates. Here in Liverpool, it's still possible to buy a pint for £1.59.

[theoldgit]

Just be aware that because you may be in the south-east of the UK, doesn't mean that you have to pay south-eastern rates.

Castor83

I would strongly advise that you telephone the firm whose details I sent you by pm, I am pretty sure that you will get far better advice than one of your local experts.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Electra]

Actually, despite the " lay view " expressed in pessimistic and indeed somewhat simplistic terms, all is not lost and any half way decent immigration practitioner should retrieve the situation although it is questionable whether or not a fresh application should be made rather than awaiting an appeal outcome.

The reliance upon Para 320 (7A ) and (11 ) in this case, and on the basis of the facts you have so far disclosed, is by no means sound. In short, (7A) requires a higher burden of proof to evidence deception and from your account this is simply not met since the alleged offence was that you sought to misrepresent your wife as having been issued a previous visa when further reference to the enclosed correspondence plainly showed that no such visa application had been made and was therefore obviously a mistake and consequently outside the provision of (7A). (11) is discretionary and should only be used when there are aggravating circumstances surrounding the previous breach i.e. absconding from temporary admission or some other breach flowing from lawful intervention, abuse of benefits, criminal activity and the like. Your wife presumably has not perpetrated any such breach during her illegal stay, otherwise one might reasonably assume the ECO would have cited it and he has not, in which case the use of (11) is inappropriate.

The rest of the refusal is drivel and easily surmounted by the production of some piffling documents.

Paying £2000 is stupid and I would recommend you shop around before committing.

[7by7]

I agree that £2000 does seem a bit high, so you should shop around. However, entering the UK using a passport and visa in someone else's name is no trifling matter; so make sure that you go for competence rather than cheapness.

The best way to ensure competence is, I believe, a personal recommendation; which you appear to have had from OG.

Good luck.

[Electra]

I agree that £2000 does seem a bit high, so you should shop around. However, entering the UK using a passport and visa in someone else's name is no trifling matter; so make sure that you go for competence rather than cheapness.

The best way to ensure competence is, I believe, a personal recommendation; which you appear to have had from OG.

Good luck.

The immigration breach whether it be an overstay, working without permission or illegal entry, is in the context of this case a red herring and cannot nor should not bar a successful application for settlement.

Most independent OISC practitioners are currently working on the basis of an all inclusive fee and few if any charge an hourly fee on a work done basis. Competition is such that the average fee would be in the region of £600 for submitting a fresh application although preparation and attendance on any appeal would be more.The case does not seem that complex and would be well within the compass of any Level 2 qualified practitioner.

Solicitors are a different kettle of fish and charge anything up to £250 per hour but do not make the mistake that because they are members of the Law Society you will be guaranteed a service superior to that of a competent OISC practitioner.

[theoldgit]

The case does not seem that complex and would be well within the compass of any Level 2 qualified practitioner.

Hence the recomendation that I made in a pm.

[7by7]

All the previous advice given to Castor in his previous threads was based upon the information that she had merely overstayed and had left the UK voluntarily before coming to the attention of the relevant authorities. Were that the case I believe this settlement application would have been successful.

However, we now know that the lady used a false identity to obtain entry to the UK; a visa, and therefore passport as well, in someone else's name.

What we do not know is why she did this. A previous breach of the UK immigration rules? Deportation from the UK or some other country? Something else? We don't know (and it's none of our business), but I suspect that the ECO and UKBA do.

Whatever the reason, Electra seems to think that this is unimportant and easily overturned.

I hope for the sake of Castor, his fiance and child that Electra is correct.

An average solicitor would not be able to deal with this; which is why I suggested an immigration specialist. Whether a level 2 OISC adviser can, I don't know. Hopefully they can, and if not they will say so.

The real sting for me is that if she had have just stayed here and had the baby, instead of doing "the right thing" and going back to reapply, we would all be together.

But for how long? The more contact she would have had with officialdom, and having a child would mean a lot, the more likely that she would have been discovered.

For example, were you to have claimed tax credits for the child, your fiance would have needed to apply for a national insurance number; which would have meant her needing to prove she was in the UK legally.

It seems hard now, but better than living in fear of the knock on the door, surely?

[manu69manu]

So sorry my friend. Hang in there and things will get better. Just think....

yesterday is history

tomorrow is a mystery

today you can get those new potato stars at kfc

[Castor83]

hey all,

yeah im not so sure about that 2k solicitor. he definately knows his stuff, but seems a bit too much like a salesman for my liking.

got a meeting with another guy tomorrow and one with the immigration specialist from the CAB the next day.. everyone ive spoken to on the phone seems to pretty much agree with Elektra. I emailed the ECM to ask if he would tell me why they used 320 11. doubt i'll get a reply in time though.

she didnt break any laws when she was here, or claim any benefits or nhs treatment. as far as i know the only two ways she broke the immigration rules were coming here in the first place, and then by not leaving as soon as she got here.

to be honest the application needed alot more evidence. which im now getting, but i think i was just a little bit too complacent.

im just trying to work out how much work is actually involved for the solicitor, because it seems im the one doing all the legwork and he is simply writing a letter to go with it. a necessary letter, but not really two grands worth.

im in fairly good spirits though. ive managed to get alot of evidence which i definately should have got first time around.

plus ive got two weeks off in september to go over there and see my son

edit: i guess she did break a couple of laws, like not payin tax and working illegally and stuff.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Castor83