Isarn And 'khrap'

[Richard W]

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

Lao alphabet has what clearly looks like a Thai 'R', Isaan (and Lao) has no 'R' sound, 'as you say. However two thirds of the time its pronounced as an 'L' and the other one third as an 'H'.

eg Rot (car) in Thai becomes Lot in Isaan and Nak Rian (student) becomes Nak Hian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Lao alphabet has two letters that look like Thai 'r' (i.e. ร) (see e.g. Low Lao Consonants), named, according to the Unicode chart for Lao, 'lo ling' (sic!) U+0EA3 and 'ho tam' U+0EAE. U+0EA3 is (was?) used for <r> in loans from Sanskrit/Pali, while the modified form (or so it seems) was used for the sound Tai /r/ had developed into, namely /h/. The letter corresponding to Thai 'l' (ล) is U+0EA5, 'lo loot'.

[chonabot]

Yep it's called Gaelic...... 

Off topic a bit, but Gaelic and Scots are not the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being a Scot I would agree , yet point out that the way Scots speak , in English , is a dialect not a language.

D'ye Ken ?

[chonabot]

Sorry guys but it is not even a dialect.....because the majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers, the Khmer make up only a small proportion. Most people assume that Lao is the Isan language....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've just informed my wife and her family of this fact , they were amused and impressed.

They speak Thai with Isaan slang terms = dialect , as do a large percentage of people in the North East. I showed them some Lao script. Guess what ? They couldn't decipher it.

It is indeed a dialect of Thai , as much as Geordie or Scouse is a dialect of English.

" The majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers...."

Dolt

[Richard W]

Sorry guys but it is not even a dialect.....because the majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers, the Khmer make up only a small proportion. Most people assume that Lao is the Isan language....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've just informed my wife and her family of this fact , they were amused and impressed.

They speak Thai with Isaan slang terms = dialect , as do a large percentage of people in the North East. I showed them some Lao script. Guess what ? They couldn't decipher it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you confirm that the problem wasn't that they couldn't make out the letters? Different scripts don't make different languages, e.g. Serbo-Croat. My wife can't read Northern Thai in its native script; that doesn't mean she can't speak it!

[chonabot]

Can you confirm that the problem wasn't that they couldn't make out the letters?  Different scripts don't make different languages, e.g. Serbo-Croat.  My wife can't read Northern Thai in its native script; that doesn't mean she can't speak it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does this mean we can have english language in Thai script , but only those that can read Thai script ( who previosuly could not speak English ) could read it and pronounce it etc...? Surely you would need knowledge of both script and Language to interpret?

[gburns57au]

Sorry guys but it is not even a dialect.....because the majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers, the Khmer make up only a small proportion. Most people assume that Lao is the Isan language....

I've just informed my wife and her family of this fact , they were amused and impressed.

They speak Thai with Isaan slang terms = dialect , as do a large percentage of people in the North East. I showed them some Lao script. Guess what ? They couldn't decipher it.

It is indeed a dialect of Thai , as much as Geordie or Scouse is a dialect of English.

" The majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers...."

Dolt

And where do they come from ???....Surin ???....

Once again to correct you....they speak Thai with either Lao or Khmer slang terms not Isan slang terms. My ex for instance was Khmer girl....she couldnt read Khmer although she could speak it fluently along with Thai which she could read. As she spoke Northern Khmer, she would not be readily understood in Phnom Penh. She spoke a different Cambodian dialect....BTW she couldnt understand a word of Lao.

But she always had trouble with the central Thais when speaking Thai to them as she used a lot of Khmer variants in her everyday speech.

I will ask you this.....is a person who from Buriram or Surin and speaks Khmer a person of Isan or not and if that person is....then is a person who comes from Udon who speaks Lao a person of Isan or not....after all they dont speak the same language do they.

[chonabot]

Sorry guys but it is not even a dialect.....because the majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers, the Khmer make up only a small proportion. Most people assume that Lao is the Isan language....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've just informed my wife and her family of this fact , they were amused and impressed.

They speak Thai with Isaan slang terms = dialect , as do a large percentage of people in the North East. I showed them some Lao script. Guess what ? They couldn't decipher it.

It is indeed a dialect of Thai , as much as Geordie or Scouse is a dialect of English.

" The majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers...."

Dolt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And where do they come from ???....Surin ???....

Once again to correct you....they speak Thai with either Lao or Khmer slang terms not Isan slang terms. My ex for instance was Khmer girl....she couldnt read Khmer although she could speak it fluently along with Thai which she could read. As she spoke Northern Khmer, she would not be readily understood in Phnom Penh. She spoke a different Cambodian dialect....BTW she couldnt understand a word of Lao.

But she always had trouble with the central Thais when speaking Thai to them as she used a lot of Khmer variants in her everyday speech.

I will ask you this.....is a person who from Buriram or Surin and speaks Khmer a person of Isan or not and if that person is....then is a person who comes from Udon who speaks Lao a person of Isan or not....after all they dont speak the same language do they.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They're from Kalasin , but I'll let you have this one , I'm the Dolt.....

[bina]

before u all get a bee in your bonnets:

i went back to find my original questions about just this subject:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14330

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13900

second; what are the dialect differences between the various areas in issan? the guys from nongkhai claim the guys from korat dont speak the same etc... i know that phuan thai is a separate dialect (ban chiang area)..

Thai linguists recognise 19 different dialects of Isan. The US Peace Corps publishes a short Isan-Central Thai dictionary that I believe is based on the Udon dialect.

In a more general manner of speaking the differing Isan dialects parallel the dialects of Lao found on the other side of the Mekong, thus Nong Khai and Udon Thani Isan sounds very much like Vientiane Lao, Mukdahan follows Savannakhet and Ubon Ratchathani follows Pakse/Champasak.

The main differences are in the tones and accent, not the vocabulary although you do hear a few lexical differences from region to region in Laos and I'm sure it must be the same in Isan.

Continuing northwestward, the dialect(s) of Northern Thai spoken in Nan and Chiang Rai are similar to what you find in Sainyabuli (Sayaburi) province in Laos, and if you travel to Luang Prabang you'll hear close links between Luang Prabang Lao and Chiang Mai Thai (kham meuang).

Now that I've studied Lao, I see kham meuang as a more or less a dialect of Lao.

I'd go so far as to say that Lao, Isan Thai and Northern Thai have much more in common with one another than they do with Central Thai.

Of course some of my Northern Thai friends don't like to see their language compared with Lao ...

i think this was sabaijai answering me and richard w.

richard w. gave out this link: www.ethnologue.com ....... for issan thai dialects

please go back to these two links for more info..... issan itself is not a language but there are many many issan dialects as u can see.....

[gburns57au]

before u all get a bee in your bonnets:

i went back to find my original questions about just this subject:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14330

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13900

second; what are the dialect differences between the various areas in issan? the guys from nongkhai claim the guys from korat dont speak the same etc... i know that phuan thai is a separate dialect (ban chiang area)..

Thai linguists recognise 19 different dialects of Isan. The US Peace Corps publishes a short Isan-Central Thai dictionary that I believe is based on the Udon dialect.

In a more general manner of speaking the differing Isan dialects parallel the dialects of Lao found on the other side of the Mekong, thus Nong Khai and Udon Thani Isan sounds very much like Vientiane Lao, Mukdahan follows Savannakhet and Ubon Ratchathani follows Pakse/Champasak.

The main differences are in the tones and accent, not the vocabulary although you do hear a few lexical differences from region to region in Laos and I'm sure it must be the same in Isan.

Continuing northwestward, the dialect(s) of Northern Thai spoken in Nan and Chiang Rai are similar to what you find in Sainyabuli (Sayaburi) province in Laos, and if you travel to Luang Prabang you'll hear close links between Luang Prabang Lao and Chiang Mai Thai (kham meuang).

Now that I've studied Lao, I see kham meuang as a more or less a dialect of Lao.

I'd go so far as to say that Lao, Isan Thai and Northern Thai have much more in common with one another than they do with Central Thai.

Of course some of my Northern Thai friends don't like to see their language compared with Lao ...

i think this was sabaijai answering me and richard w.

richard w. gave out this link: www.ethnologue.com ....... for issan thai dialects

please go back to these two links for more info..... issan itself is not a language but there are many many issan dialects as u can see.....

This backs up everyhing I have said.....the Isan dialects are not dialects of an Isan language but rather the Lao dialects of the Isan area.....say no more.

[Neeranam]

This backs up everyhing I have said.....the Isan dialects are not dialects of an Isan language but rather the Lao dialects of the Isan area.....say no more.

I asked some well educated friends about "mia bahn" and "meua bahn" meaning to go home. They said "mia" was passa Khon Kaen, and "meau" was passa Isaan. I thought "passaa meant language! ??

[gburns57au]

This backs up everyhing I have said.....the Isan dialects are not dialects of an Isan language but rather the Lao dialects of the Isan area.....say no more.

I asked some well educated friends about "mia bahn" and "meua bahn" meaning to go home. They said "mia" was passa Khon Kaen, and "meau" was passa Isaan. I thought "passaa meant language! ??

And I thought Mia was slang for wife in Thai. Meau is one of the phonetic ways of saying "when" in Thai.....so I suppose that "when home" is just a lazy way of saying ..."Ja Bai Baan Meau Lai" or "Will go home when?"

Passa, although I prefer Pah sah as it is two distinct sounds, does mean language...it means the language of a place when followed by a place name...Therefore your friends said...language of Khon Kaen which is probably a dialect of the Isan area and language of Isan which covers all the dialects of the Isan area. There is not one specific Isan language or dialect.

[Richard W]

This backs up everyhing I have said.....the Isan dialects are not dialects of an Isan language but rather the Lao dialects of the Isan area.....say no more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A draft of ISO 639-3 (not known to be superseded) supplies a language-identifer (tts) for 'Northeastern Thai'. I understand ISO 639-3 bases its language list on Ethnologue. Remember the fundamental difference between a dialect and a language - an army and a navy? I suppose the Thai army (not sure what Thailand has on the Mekong) qualifies the Isaan dialects as a separate language to the Lao of Laos! Of course, the question does then arise of whether Northeastern Thai is any more a language than Moldavian, though perhaps the question should be asked of the Lao of Lao. After all, Northeastern Thai has more speakers than Laotian Lao!

[Richard W]

I asked some well educated friends about "mia bahn" and "meua bahn" meaning to go home. They said "mia" was passa Khon Kaen, and "meau" was passa Isaan. I thought "passaa meant language! ??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I thought Mia was slang for wife in Thai. Meau is one of the phonetic ways of saying "when" in Thai.....so I suppose that "when home" is just a lazy way of saying ..."Ja Bai Baan Meau Lai" or "Will go home when?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. My Thai-English dictionary gives both เมือ ([ML]muea) and เมื้อ ([HL]muea) for 'go', so it isn't merely an Isaan word! เมื่อ ([FL]muea) is 'when'.

2. เมีย [ML]mia is the old, native word for 'wife'. It isn't slang.

[Richard W]

Can you confirm that the problem wasn't that they couldn't make out the letters?  Different scripts don't make different languages, e.g. Serbo-Croat.  My wife can't read Northern Thai in its native script; that doesn't mean she can't speak it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does this mean we can have english language in Thai script , but only those that can read Thai script ( who previosuly could not speak English ) could read it and pronounce it etc...? Surely you would need knowledge of both script and Language to interpret?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand the proviso 'who previously could not speak English', but the example of German black letters came to mind. Therefore I'm trying to understand the significance of your report. If it merely means that they can't make out the Lao letters (a problem Bina had with her Isaan workers), your report tells us nothing. (There are different conventions in Lao spelling, but the only seriously confusing ones I can think of are a reversed อั-like mark instead of the implicit /o/ of Thai, and the use of nikkhahit for the อ vowel in open syllables.)

[Johpa]

Hear hear.

Strictly speaking the bus driver was wrong, the same as Thais are wrong when they say passaa farang.

Passaa here doesn't mean languague but dialect.

I hear many people in Isaan who are proud of their 'language'.

many people in Scotland would say Scots is a language of it's own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scots speak English with a very heavy accent, especially further north, that, for the untrained ear, is difficult to understand. They speak a dialect of English. Apart from some slang terms the language is the same as in London, only very heavily accented

In Isaan they speak a dialect of Lao, not a dialect of Central Thai. Although Central Thai, Lao, and Kham Muang are closely related languages and many speakers of say Central Thai have enough familiarity to understand some folks from Isaan, there are plenty of people in Bangkok who can't understand the local langauges in Isaan or in Lanna up north, especially as they are spoken in the rural areas.

The classic definition always holds some truth: a language is a dialect with an army behind it.

[Johpa]

I've just informed my wife and her family of this fact , they were amused and impressed.

They speak Thai with Isaan slang terms = dialect ,  as do  a large percentage of people in the North East. I showed them some Lao script. Guess what ? They couldn't decipher it.

It is indeed a dialect of Thai , as much as Geordie or Scouse is a dialect of English.

" The majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers...."

Dolt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the major towns of both the Northeast and in the north I am afraid you are becoming correct in that many of the young people tend to speak a form of Central Thai laced with local phrases and slangs creating a dialect of Central Thai. Alas, an almost unpreventable consequence from having a national language plan for the language at the center, Bangkok, including the exclusion of the local languages from schools and media.

The fact that most Isaan folks do not read the Lao alphabet, is irrelevent. Nor do many folks up north read the older Lanna alphabet, even those who speak only Kham Muang and do not speak central Thai. The alphabet or syllabary being used has nothing to do with the language spoken.

[chonabot]

Can you confirm that the problem wasn't that they couldn't make out the letters?  Different scripts don't make different languages, e.g. Serbo-Croat.  My wife can't read Northern Thai in its native script; that doesn't mean she can't speak it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does this mean we can have english language in Thai script , but only those that can read Thai script ( who previosuly could not speak English ) could read it and pronounce it etc...? Surely you would need knowledge of both script and Language to interpret?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand the proviso 'who previously could not speak English', but the example of German black letters came to mind. Therefore I'm trying to understand the significance of your report. If it merely means that they can't make out the Lao letters (a problem Bina had with her Isaan workers), your report tells us nothing. (There are different conventions in Lao spelling, but the only seriously confusing ones I can think of are a reversed อั-like mark instead of the implicit /o/ of Thai, and the use of nikkhahit for the อ vowel in open syllables.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calm Down Calm Down ( In a scouse accent )

If it's a report you want , I''l knock one up with all sources quoted , Bibliography,Word count, notes on witting and unwitting testimonies to boot.

But somehow I get the feeling you'll pick it to bits.

[gburns57au]

I asked some well educated friends about "mia bahn" and "meua bahn" meaning to go home. They said "mia" was passa Khon Kaen, and "meau" was passa Isaan. I thought "passaa meant language! ??

And I thought Mia was slang for wife in Thai. Meau is one of the phonetic ways of saying "when" in Thai.....so I suppose that "when home" is just a lazy way of saying ..."Ja Bai Baan Meau Lai" or "Will go home when?"

1. My Thai-English dictionary gives both เมือ ([ML]muea) and เมื้อ ([HL]muea) for 'go', so it isn't merely an Isaan word! เมื่อ ([FL]muea) is 'when'.

2. เมีย [ML]mia is the old, native word for 'wife'. It isn't slang.

As there was no Thai script and I could not find Meua meaning go in any of my dictionaries, I went with what I had.....Mia is defined in my dictionaries as ....wife, missus.....as against the more formal term.

[Neeranam]

Scots speak English with a very heavy accent, especially further north, that, for the untrained ear, is difficult to understand. They speak a dialect of English. Apart from some slang terms the language is the same as in London, only very heavily accented

In Isaan they speak a dialect of Lao, not a dialect of Central Thai. Although Central Thai, Lao, and Kham Muang are closely related languages and many speakers of say Central Thai have enough familiarity to understand some folks from Isaan, there are plenty of people in Bangkok who can't understand the local langauges in Isaan or in Lanna up north, especially as they are spoken in the rural areas.

The classic definition always holds some truth: a language is a dialect with an army behind it.

My Grandmother speaks Doric, which is not a dialect of English, and she is as Scottish as the Loch Ness monster . I don't know it's origins but more like Norwegian or Gaelic. I disagree, Scots use not just slang words but a very different language.

One reason I love Isaan is bcause I find so many similarities with my country(Scotland). I would say that the Isaan language is a Laotian and Thai. Who cares? I don't, although interesting.

[Neeranam]

1. My Thai-English dictionary gives both เมือ ([ML]muea) and เมื้อ ([HL]muea) for 'go', so it isn't merely an Isaan word! เมื่อ ([FL]muea) is 'when'.

2. เมีย [ML]mia is the old, native word for 'wife'. It isn't slang.

Very interesting, thanks for that.

"mia" as in mia bahn must be from the Laos dialect then??

I hear it all the time in Khon Kaen.

I have never heard a Central Thai use meau, although I was surprised when a friend understood it.

[bina]

being able to read a language /dialect does not mean it is or isnt a language dialect... after all there are whole groups of languages that are not written/were not written until someone came along and made an alphabet etc... navajo comes to mind as do others but cant remember (anthropology 101 is so far back in my history already)

and i dont remember if ladino or yiddish had an army behind them although now they have the lubavicher rabbis

so essentially these are ll artificial definations... its like the nash di dan people from kurdistan... they speak aramaic!!! but there are only a few familiess left and they tend to identify themselves as kurdistan jews or iraqian jews... all have the same family name also by the way... and no one speaks aramaic anymore except in prayers or scholars....

[imakookru12]

Sorry I don't have Thai fonts installed on my computer yet. The confusion on the word mia or muea is quite simple. It is the same as BKK "glap", as in "return" "Ja glap ban" or in Isan, "Sa muea ban". This is what I recall from my having been stationed at udorn RTAFB in the early seventies. BTW....I am so happy to have found TV!!!! I learned passable Thai from the tried and true process of cultural immersion. This is to include reading as well. Admittedly, it is through rote word recognition, and without fully understanding of the nuances of class, etc., but it worked for me. This site is really helpful for me to refresh myself on the Central Tahi and Isan, which I have had but very little opportunity to use in years. Both languages are quite beautiful and expressive. Thanks for allowing me to lurk (and occasionally contribute)

Kook

[Neeranam]

Sorry I don't have Thai fonts installed on my computer yet. The confusion on the word mia or muea is quite simple. It is the same as BKK "glap", as in "return" "Ja glap ban" or in Isan, "Sa muea ban". This is what I recall from my having been stationed at udorn RTAFB in the early seventies. BTW....I am so happy to have found TV!!!! I learned passable Thai from the tried and true process of cultural immersion. This is to include reading as well. Admittedly, it is through rote word recognition, and without fully understanding of the nuances of class, etc., but it worked for me. This site is really helpful for me to refresh myself on the Central Tahi and Isan, which I have had but very little opportunity to use in years. Both languages are quite beautiful and expressive. Thanks for allowing me to lurk (and occasionally contribute)

Kook

I said today, " si mia bahn meu heeuuu, hok mong laeng" to which there was a great laugh.

I'm going home the day after tomorrow 6pm- not sure if Isaan or Laos.

Pom ja glab bahn ma reu nee - PoshThai

Great to have you here Kook, please don't be a lurker.

[Rikker]

I've noticed some dialects alternate สระเือือ with สระเอีย, which would explain why you hear people say เมียบ้าน, being a dialectical variant of เมือบ้าน, meaning 'go home'.

I recall that I've heard these pronunciations both in Bangkok and in the Isaan, but the ones in Bangkok were almost certainly of non-Bangkok nativity. I can't really say for certain, but that's what I'd suspect. Things like เรื่อง becoming เลี่ยง, etc.

There is perhaps some evidence of this alternation in a few words in standard Thai.. considering that the elaborate form of the verb 'to visit' has two common forms:

เยี่ยมเยือน and เยี่ยมเยียน

I realize that this is easy to account for, since it would be simple assimilation of the vowel to เยี่ยม, but I wonder if anyone can think of any other examples of this alternation.

Perhaps words like เลื่อน ('slide, move' which might be related etymologically to ลื่น 'slippery') and เลี่ยน ('clear away' or 'greasy') are of common origin. I do wonder.

[meadish_sweetball]

Perhaps words like เลื่อน ('slide, move' which might be related etymologically to ลื่น 'slippery') and เลี่ยน ('clear away' or 'greasy') are of common origin. I do wonder.

----------------------------------

I'd also guess they derive from a common source since the meanings and sounds are so close.

[bannork]

I've noticed some dialects alternate สระเือือ with สระเอีย, which would explain why you hear people say เมียบ้าน, being a dialectical variant of เมือบ้าน, meaning 'go home'.

I recall that I've heard these pronunciations both in Bangkok and in the Isaan, but the ones in Bangkok were almost certainly of non-Bangkok nativity. I can't really say for certain, but that's what I'd suspect. Things like เรื่อง becoming เลี่ยง, etc.

There is perhaps some evidence of this alternation in a few words in standard Thai.. considering that the elaborate form of the verb 'to visit' has two common forms:

เยี่ยมเยือน and เยี่ยมเยียน

I realize that this is easy to account for, since it would be simple assimilation of the vowel to เยี่ยม, but I wonder if anyone can think of any other examples of this alternation.

Perhaps words like เลื่อน ('slide, move' which might be related etymologically to ลื่น 'slippery') and เลี่ยน ('clear away' or 'greasy') are of common origin. I do wonder.

some common examples of Issan differences regarding vowels,consonants and tones:

Central Thai Issan

ช่วย ฃอย

เชือก เฃียก

เรือ เฮีย

เกือบ เกียบ

ควาย ค้วย

ถูก ถืก

ตัว โต

ไร่ ไฮ

รู้ ฮู่

เช้า เฃ่า

ข้าว เข่า

กวาด กวด

It's interesting how Issan has different tones and length of vowels sometimes, ie for rice.

[imakookru12]

Sorry I don't have Thai fonts installed on my computer yet. The confusion on the word mia or muea is quite simple. It is the same as BKK "glap", as in "return" "Ja glap ban" or in Isan, "Sa muea ban". This is what I recall from my having been stationed at Udorn RTAFB in the early seventies. BTW....I am so happy to have found TV!!!! I learned passable Thai from the tried and true process of cultural immersion. This is to include reading as well. Admittedly, it is through rote word recognition, and without fully understanding of the nuances of class, etc., but it worked for me. This site is really helpful for me to refresh myself on the Central Thai and Isan, which I have had but very little opportunity to use in years. Both languages are quite beautiful and expressive. Thanks for allowing me to lurk (and occasionally contribute)

Kook

I said today, " si mia bahn meu heeuuu, hok mong laeng" to which there was a great laugh.

I'm going home the day after tomorrow 6pm- not sure if Isaan or Laos.

Pom ja glab bahn ma reu nee - PoshThai

Great to have you here Kook, please don't be a lurker.

Thanks for the welcome, Khun Neeranam! I bet that DID make them laugh! As far as it being either Lao or Isan, both are so close to one another that they are mutually intelligible. Especially if we are speaking in reference to the official Lan Xang (Vientiane) dialect.

[phibunmike]

whereever you go in Thailand you should use it.....even if the locals dont seem to use it so much.....it is just a matter of being polite and will be seen as such....if there is a local alternative then use that.

I think there is a similarity with how Isaan people see Bkk Thais, and how people from my area in Scotland see English nobs. The use of 'proper Queen's English was often laughed at.

- but a french man saying "hey Jimmy" or similar would sound odd.

I share your experience, Neeranam, in that I never hear "khrap" here unless they speak Thai to someone (when it sounds like "khup") - but my better half insists that I should use it - the same, when she says "ee" when addressing someone, but is shocked if I use it and says I shouldn't.

[meadish_sweetball]

"One country, One language... 1.543.267,5 systems"

[h90]

whereever you go in Thailand you should use it.....even if the locals dont seem to use it so much.....it is just a matter of being polite and will be seen as such....if there is a local alternative then use that.

I think there is a similarity with how Isaan people see Bkk Thais, and how people from my area in Scotland see English nobs. The use of 'proper Queen's English was often laughed at.

- but a french man saying "hey Jimmy" or similar would sound odd.

I share your experience, Neeranam, in that I never hear "khrap" here unless they speak Thai to someone (when it sounds like "khup") - but my better half insists that I should use it - the same, when she says "ee" when addressing someone, but is shocked if I use it and says I shouldn't.

are we married to the same girl??

mine is doing exactly the same. ee kiau (don't know how to write it, but kiau like green) is usual way my wife is adressing people for joke (kiau=green=used as little bit black =braun ).

ee seems to be pretty low but used a lot for fun (here southis)...

If I want to joke with my wife I call her ee dum (when she got a little color) or ee yellow (forgot it in thai) to remind her to her chinese roots.

but it seems it is very ugly to use that (just for joke it is OK)...