Isarn And 'khrap'

[Neeranam]

When speaking Isarn should I use 'khrap'?

One example is

sabai dee bo, khrap?

bo dtong yan, khrap(don't be scared)

pai sai, na khrap?

I have never heard 'khrap' being used by real Isarn speakers.

Edited February 28, 2005 by Neeranam

[boxig]

I think being a Falang you should use it always and anywhere unless you are with very close friends. My Thai wife and I are using Ka and Krap between us even while being alone ... well, not all the time

[meadish_sweetball]

I have asked the same question about Northern Thai since I have noticed that males do not use "khap" (or khrap) when speaking Northern Thai to each other. I have then been told I should still use "khap", but I dont when using standard phrases like the ones you describe, and it goes down ok, except in some cases when speaking to older people.

This is part of the double standard you face as a farang speaker of Thai - you are expected to be more polite than the Thais themselves...

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

[Neeranam]

This is part of the double standard you face as a farang speaker of Thai - you are expected to be more polite than the Thais themselves...

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

Interesting that we are expected to be more polite than Thais. I assume that if I don't use khap they will think it is because I am farang and forget.

Noone seems to mind that I have noticed.

I think saying something like "mee fao bo, khrap" (is there a rush) sounds stupid.

Has anyone ever heard 'bo' being used with 'khrap'?

[Jai Dee]

Has anyone ever heard 'bo' being used with 'khrap'?

I've never heard the two words used together in my teeruk's village in Isaan.

However, I will ask her tonight.

[SEAtramp]

You might try 'kob. Lao for thanks

Edited March 1, 2005 by SEAtramp

[Richard W]

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

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And they don't have /l/ as the second element of clusters either.

[Neeranam]

And they don't have /l/ as the second element of clusters either.

Interesting.

What's the Isarn/Lao word for fish?

[Neeranam]

Silly question, sorry.

It must be 'pa'.

I thought this was pronounced 'pa' but spelt 'pla'.

[SEAtramp]

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

Lao alphabet has what clearly looks like a Thai 'R', Isaan (and Lao) has no 'R' sound, 'as you say. However two thirds of the time its pronounced as an 'L' and the other one third as an 'H'.

eg Rot (car) in Thai becomes Lot in Isaan and Nak Rian (student) becomes Nak Hian.

[gburns57au]

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

Lao alphabet has what clearly looks like a Thai 'R', Isaan (and Lao) has no 'R' sound, 'as you say. However two thirds of the time its pronounced as an 'L' and the other one third as an 'H'.

eg Rot (car) in Thai becomes Lot in Isaan and Nak Rian (student) becomes Nak Hian.

I think you should distinguish between Lao and Khmer.......they are both Isan. Most of the discussion here seems to be about Lao...The Khmers do pronounce the R and they do roll it, according to central Thais....

[SEAtramp]

I think you should distinguish between Lao and Khmer.......they are both Isan.

What ?!!?

Khmers do pronounce the R and they do roll it, according to central Thais....

Yes i am fully aware Khmers pronounce the 'R'. It sounds like Roo

[gburns57au]

I think you should distinguish between Lao and Khmer.......they are both Isan.

What ?!!?

Khmers do pronounce the R and they do roll it, according to central Thais....

Yes i am fully aware Khmers pronounce the 'R'. It sounds like Roo

Sorry I added to your post....should have added to topic...

[meadish_sweetball]

One note: Lao/Isarn and Northern Thai dont have the rolling "r" sound. The equivalent of it is sometimes "l" and sometimes "h". Cf. "To study" - CentralThai "rian", Northern Thai "hian".

Lao alphabet has what clearly looks like a Thai 'R', Isaan (and Lao) has no 'R' sound, 'as you say. However two thirds of the time its pronounced as an 'L' and the other one third as an 'H'.

eg Rot (car) in Thai becomes Lot in Isaan and Nak Rian (student) becomes Nak Hian.

Yes, they do have a letter that looks like "ror reua" in the Lao alphabet, but even in educated Lao, the letter is not pronounced with the rolling "r" sound as in formal Central Thai, but as an "l".

gburns_au is correct that the Khmer minority in Isarn pronounce the rolling "r" sounds in Thai without difficulty - but I would guess that when they speak the Isarn/Lao dialect of Thai, they dont use any "r"'s either... Correct?

[aletta]

Never heard a resident of Isaan use khrap.The only time i hear the word is when visitors come up from the smoke or we visit the local Chinese Thai doctor.

[gburns57au]

whereever you go in Thailand you should use it.....even if the locals dont seem to use it so much.....it is just a matter of being polite and will be seen as such....if there is a local alternative then use that.

[Neeranam]

whereever you go in Thailand you should use it.....even if the locals dont seem to use it so much.....it is just a matter of being polite and will be seen as such....if there is a local alternative then use that.

I think there is a similarity with how Isaan people see Bkk Thais, and how people from my area in Scotland see English nobs. The use of 'proper Queen's English was often laughed at.

[Jai Dee]

Has anyone ever heard 'bo' being used with 'khrap'?

I've never heard the two words used together in my teeruk's village in Isaan.

However, I will ask her tonight.

OK, I asked her last night and she said that whilst it's not practised by the locals, it is sometimes used by visitors from Bangkok or elsewhere.

For example, a local might say "sabai dee bo", and a visitor from BKK who may have been an Isaan resident previously might say "sabai dee bo krup".

It's a "higher" form of speech not usually practiced by Isaan residents.

I like Neeranam's simile of the use of "proper Queen's English"... it explains it quite well.

As an aside, if you as a falung were to visit Isaan, you would be expected to say krup/ka, as you would be expected to have a higher command of "polite Thai" language, if only at a basic level.

I must say, my extended family in Isaan find it hilarious when I ask them "sap bo?" when we are eating together rather than "arroy mai?". They love to hear the falaung speak even a little bit of their dialect. It makes for a sanook time for all.

[Neeranam]

I must say, my extended family in Isaan find it hilarious when I ask them "sap bo?" when we are eating together rather than "arroy mai?". They love to hear the falaung speak even a little bit of their dialect. It makes for a sanook time for all.

It is difficult knowing when to speak Isaan and proper Thai.

I spoke to the bus conductor in Nong Kai yesterday, saying 'see mong laeng' instead of 'see mong yen'or 'bai see mong'. He had a great laugh and showed some respect, when there was absolutely none when he first spoke to me!

he went out his way to wake me up saying that I would be better to change in Udon as his bus stopped somewhere for an hour.

Even when getting off the bus and getting hassled by tuk tuk drivers, he shouted out , "pood passaa Isaan" as if to say give him a decent price.

However, I have spoken Isaan to some upper class Isaanese with very negative results. They pretended not to understand and had a little embarrassed giggle. One frined actually had never heard of "buang" for spoon, and she has lived in Khon Kaen all her life.

Give the normal working class people a laugh and speak some Isaan today, even in Bangkok, the taxi drivers love it, as do many of the vendors etc.

[Jai Dee]

Give the normal working class people a laugh and speak some Isaan today, even in Bangkok, the taxi drivers love it, as do many of the vendors etc.

Hear hear...

[Diggerbasher]

Throwing a bit of Isaan vocab into a conversation can certainly make the locals smile and laugh.If a young lady is speaking a little loudly say "sow wow" and all will smile.

[gburns57au]

Just to let you guys know that Isan is an area....it is not a language...

[meadish_sweetball]

Just to let you guys know that Isan is an area....it is not a language...

Whether you call it a language or a dialect is pretty irrelevant here. It is a distinct system from Central Thai, and as such has its own usage rules, vocabulary, tones, and social place in different contexts.

I think people's experience with Isaan and Isaan speakers above shows this very clearly.

Neeraram's story above is a case in point - the bus driver shouted "phuud phasaa Isaan" to the people outside. Do you mean he was wrong then?

Sure, there are Khmer-speaking people living in the area called Isaan too. All power to them.

To draw a parallel - the fact that there are several ethnic groups in Northern Thailand does not negate the fact that Kham Meuang (Northern Thai) is a separate system from Central Thai.

[SiamJai]

I ask them "sap bo?" when we are eating together rather than "arroy mai?". They love to hear the falaung speak even a little bit of their dialect. It makes for a sanook time for all.

Yes! I did that too, when I was in Isaan, and my friends were always amused, (and strangers surprised)!

Nowadays, in the North, I just say "lam dte dte" when they ask me... the effect is the same.

[Neeranam]

Whether you call it a language or a dialect is pretty irrelevant here. It is a distinct system from Central Thai, and as such has its own usage rules, vocabulary, tones, and social place in different contexts.

I think people's experience with Isaan and Isaan speakers above shows this very clearly.

Neeraram's story above is a case in point - the bus driver shouted "phuud phasaa Isaan" to the people outside. Do you mean he was wrong then?

Sure, there are Khmer-speaking people living in the area called Isaan too. All power to them.

To draw a parallel - the fact that there are several ethnic groups in Northern Thailand does not negate the fact that Kham Meuang (Northern Thai) is a separate system from Central Thai.

Hear hear.

Strictly speaking the bus driver was wrong, the same as Thais are wrong when they say passaa farang.

Passaa here doesn't mean languague but dialect.

I hear many people in Isaan who are proud of their 'language'.

many people in Scotland would say Scots is a language of it's own.

[bina]

where's richard w w/his pedantic explanations:

issan has many dialects and in my humble opinion is not socioeconomically lower than central thai although the thai see it that way... as it is a definate group of dialects.... seeing as how i am buying a dictionary thai issan eng.... see other thread.....

saap ilee gets a huge laugh also

[chonabot]

Just to let you guys know that Isan is an area....it is not a language...

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Dolt

[chonabot]

I hear many people in Isaan who are proud of their 'language'.

many people in Scotland would say Scots is a language of it's own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep it's called Gaelic......

[Neeranam]

Yep it's called Gaelic...... 

Off topic a bit, but Gaelic and Scots are not the same.

[gburns57au]

Whether you call it a language or a dialect is pretty irrelevant here. It is a distinct system from Central Thai, and as such has its own usage rules, vocabulary, tones, and social place in different contexts.

I think people's experience with Isaan and Isaan speakers above shows this very clearly.

Neeraram's story above is a case in point - the bus driver shouted "phuud phasaa Isaan" to the people outside. Do you mean he was wrong then?

Sure, there are Khmer-speaking people living in the area called Isaan too. All power to them.

To draw a parallel - the fact that there are several ethnic groups in Northern Thailand does not negate the fact that Kham Meuang (Northern Thai) is a separate system from Central Thai.

Hear hear.

Strictly speaking the bus driver was wrong, the same as Thais are wrong when they say passaa farang.

Passaa here doesn't mean languague but dialect.

I hear many people in Isaan who are proud of their 'language'.

many people in Scotland would say Scots is a language of it's own.

Sorry guys but it is not even a dialect.....because the majority of people in the Isan area are Lao speakers, the Khmer make up only a small proportion. Most people assume that Lao is the Isan language....

By the way Chonabot....I am far from being a dolt...thank you...