Translation Of กล้า - Courage, Bravery, ?willingness?

[kokesaat]

This is a 50/50 Thai language/Thai culture question:

My homework yesterday (Thomas Gething Basic Reader, Chapter 21) was about the duties/characteristics of a village chief (ผู้ใหญ่บ้าน). The stories are dated back 20+ years. One of the characteristics is:

(ผู้ใหญ่บ้านส่วนมากเป็นผู้ที่มีความรู้ ความสามารถเหนือกว่าคนอื่น เป็นคนฉลาด)

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

My dictionary sources translate กล้า as brave/courage (adj), dare (verb), so the rough translation would be: ….have the courage to make contact with district and province officials.

If ‘courage’ is right, that would help better explain (to me, anyway) the Thai reluctance to engage their local officials.

I’m wondering, though, if maybe the author meant “willing” as in, must have the willingness to make contact with district and province officials.

I talked this over with my Thai teacher (a university graduate). She thought ‘courage’ was the right translation. She intimated to me that, while she occasionally complains to the local officials at the district office, she’s concerned that they might take action against her if she complains too strongly/too much. She has a small pharmacy in the village and frequently endures prolonged water outages. Most villagers grin and bear it, but she has complained on a few occasions.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[aanon]

This is a 50/50 Thai language/Thai culture question:

My homework yesterday (Thomas Gething Basic Reader, Chapter 21) was about the duties/characteristics of a village chief (ผู้ใหญ่บ้าน). The stories are dated back 20+ years. One of the characteristics is:

(ผู้ใหญ่บ้านส่วนมากเป็นผู้ที่มีความรู้ ความสามารถเหนือกว่าคนอื่น เป็นคนฉลาด)

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

My dictionary sources translate กล้า as brave/courage (adj), dare (verb), so the rough translation would be: ….have the courage to make contact with district and province officials.

If ‘courage’ is right, that would help better explain (to me, anyway) the Thai reluctance to engage their local officials.

I’m wondering, though, if maybe the author meant “willing” as in, must have the willingness to make contact with district and province officials.

I talked this over with my Thai teacher (a university graduate). She thought ‘courage’ was the right translation. She intimated to me that, while she occasionally complains to the local officials at the district office, she’s concerned that they might take action against her if she complains too strongly/too much. She has a small pharmacy in the village and frequently endures prolonged water outages. Most villagers grin and bear it, but she has complained on a few occasions.

Anyone have any suggestions?

I think it means 'bold enough to', 'courageous enough to', 'game to', 'not daunted', etc.

For 'willingness', you could say "พร้อมที่จะ...", ie. "ready to...[kick up a fuss if necessary]'.

[tgeezer]

This is a 50/50 Thai language/Thai culture question:

My homework yesterday (Thomas Gething Basic Reader, Chapter 21) was about the duties/characteristics of a village chief (ผู้ใหญ่บ้าน). The stories are dated back 20+ years. One of the characteristics is:

(ผู้ใหญ่บ้านส่วนมากเป็นผู้ที่มีความรู้ ความสามารถเหนือกว่าคนอื่น เป็นคนฉลาด)

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

My dictionary sources translate กล้า as brave/courage (adj), dare (verb), so the rough translation would be: ….have the courage to make contact with district and province officials.

If ‘courage’ is right, that would help better explain (to me, anyway) the Thai reluctance to engage their local officials.

I’m wondering, though, if maybe the author meant “willing” as in, must have the willingness to make contact with district and province officials.

I talked this over with my Thai teacher (a university graduate). She thought ‘courage’ was the right translation. She intimated to me that, while she occasionally complains to the local officials at the district office, she’s concerned that they might take action against her if she complains too strongly/too much. She has a small pharmacy in the village and frequently endures prolonged water outages. Most villagers grin and bear it, but she has complained on a few occasions.

Anyone have any suggestions?

One of the best aspects of learning another language is what it tell me about my own, I often find that my understanding of a word in English is often too narrow, so if I come up with something like this I look it up in a few dictionaries to make sure that I understand the English correctly. In this case I find 'to have the courage of one's convictions'.

[kokesaat]

A Thai friend of mine, fluent in English, said he'd use "comfortable" as in "comfortable to communicate with district and provincial officials."

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

That's a few steps down the ladder from 'brave' but it sounds more reasonable to me.

[Groongthep]

A Thai friend of mine, fluent in English, said he'd use "comfortable" as in "comfortable to communicate with district and provincial officials."

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

That's a few steps down the ladder from 'brave' but it sounds more reasonable to me.

Your friend's translation of กล้า as "comfortable" as in "comfortable to communicate with district and provincial officials" appears correct and reasonable given the context. I think it can also be translated as courage or brave if used in a different context where those words were more appropriate.

In everyday speech I hear กล้า more often used in the negative sense, especially (ผม)ไม่กล้า which I have always taken to mean "I wouldn't dare..." As in (ผม)ไม่กล้า(ขี่ช้าง). (I) wouldn't dare (ride an elephant).

Edited August 9, 2009 by Groongthep

[SoftWater]

A Thai friend of mine, fluent in English, said he'd use "comfortable" as in "comfortable to communicate with district and provincial officials."

และกล้าไปติดต่อกับเจ้าหน้าที่อำเภอและจังหวัด

That's a few steps down the ladder from 'brave' but it sounds more reasonable to me.

Your friend's translation of กล้า as "comfortable" as in "comfortable to communicate with district and provincial officials" appears correct and reasonable given the context. I think it can also be translated as courage or brave if used in a different context where those words were more appropriate.

I think this is getting there, can I suggest

.'..has the confidence to deal with district and provincial official'

as 'confidence' & 'bravery' are more closely conceptually related.

[yoot]

I think this is getting there, can I suggest

.'..has the confidence to deal with district and provincial official'

as 'confidence' & 'bravery' are more closely conceptually related.

Your answer is spot on!

"...has the confidence to..." is the best translation for this context.

[Johpa]

The stories are dated back 20+ years.

One has to understand the social dynamics going back 20 plus years when the feudal aspects of Thai society were less obscured then today. Rural people lived in fear of the government officials and "phu yai" They were deemed to be "caos" or lords. It took, and still does, take gumption and chutzpah to confront the bureaucrats. One had to be brave and bold because if you screwed up there could be negative consequences to both the individual and the entire village. Thus in the context and times of when Gething collected material for his reader, it required more than just confidence to confront the power of the State as represented by the local district officials (Amphoe), it also required a degree of boldness and bravery. It was risky business.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Johpa

[kokesaat]

The stories are dated back 20+ years.

One has to understand the social dynamics going back 20 plus years when the feudal aspects of Thai society were less obscured then today. Rural people lived in fear of the government officials and "phu yai" They were deemed to be "caos" or lords. It took, and still does, take gumption and chutzpah to confront the bureaucrats. One had to be brave and bold because if you screwed up there could be negative consequences to both the individual and the entire village. Thus in the context and times of when Gething collected material for his reader, it required more than just confidence to confront the power of the State as represented by the local district officials (Amphoe), it also required a degree of boldness and bravery. It was risky business.

Thanks, Johpa, that answers the other half of my original question about Thai culture. Thais, in general, seem to be more reluctant to question authority, whether it's a teacher or a government employee (yellow/red shirt folks working in large crowds excepted). When I lived in the US, I didn't relish dealing with the bureaucracy, but I'd never think of saying 'someone has to be brave or daring to deal with them'. But in Thailand, it's easier for me to understand.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[SoftWater]

The stories are dated back 20+ years.

One has to understand the social dynamics going back 20 plus years when the feudal aspects of Thai society were less obscured then today. Rural people lived in fear of the government officials and "phu yai" They were deemed to be "caos" or lords. It took, and still does, take gumption and chutzpah to confront the bureaucrats. One had to be brave and bold because if you screwed up there could be negative consequences to both the individual and the entire village. Thus in the context and times of when Gething collected material for his reader, it required more than just confidence to confront the power of the State as represented by the local district officials (Amphoe), it also required a degree of boldness and bravery. It was risky business.

Thanks, Johpa, that answers the other half of my original question about Thai culture. Thais, in general, seem to be more reluctant to question authority, whether it's a teacher or a government employee (yellow/red shirt folks working in large crowds excepted). When I lived in the US, I didn't relish dealing with the bureaucracy, but I'd never think of saying 'someone has to be brave or daring to deal with them'. But in Thailand, it's easier for me to understand.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

This and the other thread on Reading/Speaking led me to the idea of a Ghetings Reader thread? Are their enough people working through this book to warrant it? I'm also around Ch20 and have a few questions, might be nice to stick them in one place. Has this been done before?

[kokesaat]

"Ghetings Reader thread"

The reader is the main source of my Thai lessons, I'm on lesson 22, so I'd likewise find it useful to share a thread.

I'm using Anki flashcards (free software to generate your own flashcards) and have the first 22 lessons in a file that could be exchanged as well.