animatic Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 (edited) I think they realize the only way for them to get what they REALLY want, Thaksin as total dictator for life is a violent revolution with the support of some military factions. This unfortunately is still possible. It would be more than other coup, it would be a total revolution and probably mean CIVIL WAR. If they ever achieved their sick twisted dream then they would have show elections, a la Chavez, for window dressing for the west. As bad as the current system may or may not be (it ain't great that's for sure) you really really don't want to see that here in Thailand ... The revolution will be televised. And clearly sponsored... Starring Abbey Hoffman as Veera, Stokley Carmichael as Jatuporn Huey Newton as Jakarapob Jet Li as Thaksin Gong Li as Potjamin Michele Yeo as Oak With Jackie Chan as Abhisit Donald Sutherland as Suthep Tim Curry As Newin Lon Chaney as Chalerm Franklin Pangborn as Somchai Kathy Bates as Yawawopa Billy Connelly as Samak Alistair Sim as Sondhi Jack Nicholson as Aunupong Raul Julia as Noppadom Edited August 5, 2009 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publicus Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think they realize the only way for them to get what they REALLY want, Thaksin as total dictator for life is a violent revolution with the support of some military factions. This unfortunately is still possible. It would be more than other coup, it would be a total revolution and probably mean CIVIL WAR. If they ever achieved their sick twisted dream then they would have show elections, a la Chavez, for window dressing for the west. As bad as the current system may or may not be (it ain't great that's for sure) you really really don't want to see that here in Thailand ... The revolution will be televised. And clearly sponsored... Starring Abbey Hoffman as Veera, Stokley Carmichael as Jatuporn Huey Newton as Jakarapob Jet Li as Thaksin Gong Li as Potjamin Michele Yeo as Oak With Jackie Chan as Abhisit Donald Sutherland as Suthep Tim Curry As Newin Lon Chaney as Chalerm Franklin Pangborn as Somchai Kathy Bates as Yawawopa Billy Connelly as Samak Alistair Sim as Sondhi Jack Nicholson as Aunupong Raul Julia as Noppadom Revenge of the Nerds meets It Came From Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) The situation is two fold and the gov't is acting irresponsibily, as well as acting too late. First, is the right to petition the responsible authority. There's no right to petition the King for anything you want. Petitions of this kind should be addressed to parliament. As for pardons - they must be asked either by serving convicts or their relatives. Amazes me that those on the red side express no reservations or concerns about throwing the most revered institution right into the middle of their latest political game. Actually, second thoughts... no it doesn't. Maybe you forget that a lot of groups and Sondhi submitted the petition in these 3, 4 years but no one accused them anything. Watch the video the reds talked about the petition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFieQQucay8...re=channel_page Edited August 7, 2009 by Koo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Maybe you forget that a lot of groups and Sondhi submitted the petition in these 3, 4 years but no one accused them anything. Watch the video the reds talked about the petition:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFieQQucay8...re=channel_page Koo, are you being dishonest on purpose or just lack any logical thinking? Again, anyone can supply a petition on any kind. It is not illegal. However, petitioning the King that HE should do something illegal is BAD. (And could in some aspects be illegal too.) Red this again: His Majesty does not rule over law. That changed in the 1930ies. Therefor, any petition to try to get him to overturn a legal verdict in way that DOES NOT comply with the written protocol is to ask him to act outside the law and commit a CRIME. Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Maybe you forget that a lot of groups and Sondhi submitted the petition in these 3, 4 years but no one accused them anything. Watch the video the reds talked about the petition:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFieQQucay8...re=channel_page Koo, are you being dishonest on purpose or just lack any logical thinking? Again, anyone can supply a petition on any kind. It is not illegal. However, petitioning the King that HE should do something illegal is BAD. (And could in some aspects be illegal too.) Red this again: His Majesty does not rule over law. That changed in the 1930ies. Therefor, any petition to try to get him to overturn a legal verdict in way that DOES NOT comply with the written protocol is to ask him to act outside the law and commit a CRIME. Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. Some people can't think or see past the end of their nose - this is due to the "RED" thing firmly fastened there - not unlike Rudolph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 And Koo82 will magically forget to respond to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. don't be such a drama queen. no body is asking anyone to do anything illegal. assuming a decision has been made to pardon thaksin, then the (legal) prerequisites will be arranged and fulfilled as just a process and a formality. anything that needs to be done will be done and parties duly informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. don't be such a drama queen. no body is asking anyone to do anything illegal. assuming a decision has been made to pardon thaksin, then the (legal) prerequisites will be arranged and fulfilled as just a process and a formality. anything that needs to be done will be done and parties duly informed. I see, so you make the decision and then arrange the prerequisites? Just like arranging to illegally sell a telecommunications company, concluding the deal and then changing the law to be able to do so? Your ethics reflect well on the red shirt movement and its slimey leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. don't be such a drama queen. no body is asking anyone to do anything illegal. assuming a decision has been made to pardon thaksin, then the (legal) prerequisites will be arranged and fulfilled as just a process and a formality. anything that needs to be done will be done and parties duly informed. Yes, re-arrange the legal prerequisites...change the law to fit your agenda, how wonderful. This is the 'democracy' the Reds seek. As shallow as the emperors new clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 It doesn't mean if Khun Thaksin is pardoned, he will be back and becomes PM right away. Khun Thaksin must go through election. If Abhisit is as good as shown in so many polls and can win election, Abhisit will be PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 However, petitioning the King that HE should do something illegal is BAD. (And could in some aspects be illegal too.) Where do you get your information from? The King has the right to pardon anyone. This is written in the Constitution Law even the 2550 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 who said anything about changing the law ? If the decision maker decides it is in the best interests of the country to pardon thaksin, then a few little prerequisite legal check boxes wont get in the way, they can and will be taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Is that the level of respect you reds have for His Majesty, then SHAME ON YOU. The law allows anyone and the ones having concerned benefits to submit petition. I don't see anything can lead to "respect" or "not respect" here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 don't worry Koo82, TAWP is just being a drama queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 in the event Thaksin ever stole power back. Khun Thaksin won elections twice. This is what Abhisit cannot do. Why did you say "stole"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 don't worry Koo82, TAWP is just being a drama queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thaksin knows full well a pardon is impossible, why have none of his family signed the petition by the way? It's just a chance to show his popularity and to pressurise the King. His game won't work and will only make more people despise his total lack of morality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Yes, re-arrange the legal prerequisites...change the law to fit your agenda, how wonderful.This is the 'democracy' the Reds seek. Which law did they change or want to change? Don't they have to go through the Parliament? What "democracy" do the Yellows seek? From what I see from their protests, I understand the Yellows seem to classify "This ones are stupid whose votes should not be trusted. This ones are not stupid, can vote. The stupid ones can vote 30%. Let the not stupid ones vote 70%". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koo82 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thaksin knows full well a pardon is impossible, why have none of his family signed the petition by the way?It's just a chance to show his popularity and to pressurise the King. His game won't work and will only make more people despise his total lack of morality Let me attach the petition here for you to read. Petition_Offline_1_2.pdfPetition_Offline_3.pdf It says the people who sign have big problems and the only man they hope can solve their problems is Khun Thaksin, so they seek Royal pardon for Khun Thaksin. The red leaders asked Khun Thaksin's family not to sign because this is the reds' petition and this is not Khun Thaksin's petition or Khun Thaksin's family's petition. No pressure at all. The reds said if within one month they couldn't get 1 million signatures, they consider the grievances they have are too small to bother the King. As they got almost 6 million signatures, they have shown their grievances are big and they need help. Government cannot help them. They must find alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thaksin knows full well a pardon is impossible, why have none of his family signed the petition by the way?It's just a chance to show his popularity and to pressurise the King. His game won't work and will only make more people despise his total lack of morality Let me attach the petition here for you to read. Petition_Offline_1_2.pdfPetition_Offline_3.pdf It says the people who sign have big problems and the only man they hope can solve their problems is Khun Thaksin, so they seek Royal pardon for Khun Thaksin. The red leaders asked Khun Thaksin's family not to sign because this is the reds' petition and this is not Khun Thaksin's petition or Khun Thaksin's family's petition. No pressure at all. The reds said if within one month they couldn't get 1 million signatures, they consider the grievances they have are too small to bother the King. As they got almost 6 million signatures, they have shown their grievances are big and they need help. Government cannot help them. They must find alternative. I would imagine that petition/propaganda is in breach of forum rules. What he is asking for is a disgrace, as usual he wants to be treated differently fro everyone else. If he had any respect for HM, then he would at least come home and face the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) in the event Thaksin ever stole power back. Khun Thaksin won elections twice. This is what Abhisit cannot do. Why did you say "stole"? Because his 'political machine' has controlled the information and access to other opinions that the Issanese see and here. That is not free and fair democracy in action, it is theft of the pubics right to make informed voting decisions based on full knowledge. This is less fair and balanced than FoxNews and that is a low road for sure. Since he has no legal standing to run, he would only be a controlling figure behind a PTP puppet and that old girl has NOTHING to do with democracy either. Edited August 10, 2009 by animatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Yes, re-arrange the legal prerequisites...change the law to fit your agenda, how wonderful.This is the 'democracy' the Reds seek. Which law did they change or want to change? Don't they have to go through the Parliament? What "democracy" do the Yellows seek? From what I see from their protests, I understand the Yellows seem to classify "This ones are stupid whose votes should not be trusted. This ones are not stupid, can vote. The stupid ones can vote 30%. Let the not stupid ones vote 70%". This is not Reds vs Yellow, but the rest of the country vs political machinations of the Thaksin team, to get him back power. Democracy is only his tool and not he goal. Reds paint the whole country as red or yellow, and if you DON'T think RED, you MUST be yellow Just not so in reality, most Thais want both colored sides to shuffle off this mortal coil. And give Thailand back to the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 However, petitioning the King that HE should do something illegal is BAD. (And could in some aspects be illegal too.) Where do you get your information from? The King has the right to pardon anyone. This is written in the Constitution Law even the 2550 version. Are you saying there are no rules governing the pardon-process for an inmate (aka, not a fugitive)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 The threat from the yellows at the moment is from an insistence on seeing progress in the Sonthi assassination attempt, but that will threaten the security of the government if Phumjaitai withdraw due to embarrassing revelations- or a possible coup to prevent revelations. The posters who naively put the Democrats plus army = government don't know too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thaksin knows full well a pardon is impossible, why have none of his family signed the petition by the way?It's just a chance to show his popularity and to pressurise the King. His game won't work and will only make more people despise his total lack of morality Let me attach the petition here for you to read. Petition_Offline_1_2.pdfPetition_Offline_3.pdf It says the people who sign have big problems and the only man they hope can solve their problems is Khun Thaksin, so they seek Royal pardon for Khun Thaksin. The red leaders asked Khun Thaksin's family not to sign because this is the reds' petition and this is not Khun Thaksin's petition or Khun Thaksin's family's petition. No pressure at all. The reds said if within one month they couldn't get 1 million signatures, they consider the grievances they have are too small to bother the King. As they got almost 6 million signatures, they have shown their grievances are big and they need help. Government cannot help them. They must find alternative. thanks for that Kuu82. It appears the petition at the bottom has space for a name, sig, address, national ID number and phone number. Its more than enough information to verify the signatures for the doubting thomases out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfarer108 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I wonder how many of the signees listened to and comprehended the text of His Majesty's public addresses while Col Thaksin was in office, which made it clear in what kind of esteem the Colonel was held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Its more than enough information to verify the signatures for the doubting thomases out there. You mean verify the signature, not verify that a person of that name exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I wonder how many of the signees listened to and comprehended the text of His Majesty's public addresses while Col Thaksin was in office, which made it clear in what kind of esteem the Colonel was held. Comprehend is the salient point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Nearly 4 million has signed name in opposition to Thaksin pardon: Interior Minister Interior Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul said Monday that nearly 4 million people have given their name in opposition to the campaign by the red-shirt movement to seek a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra. Chaovarat said the Interior Ministry got 3.95 million names in opposition to the Thaksin pardon campaign. Most of them or 2.28 million names came from northeastern provinces, he said. -- The Nation 2009/08/11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 It says the people who sign have big problems and the only man they hope can solve their problems is Khun Thaksin, so they seek Royal pardon for Khun Thaksin. Look at the highlighted part - constitutionally it is outside of King's duty. It's not Sukhotai era anymore. There are no provisions in the constitution to petition the King to solve economic problems. In these matters the King acts through the Parliament, and it stated so in the Constitution. The King can grant a pardon, however the petition must be submitted first, and that process must follow some rules. In TRT days there were two cases when the laws passed by parliament didn't reach the King because his office found errors and mistakes in them - that's a precedent for you. Royal signature and endorsement is not a rubber stamp. Various reds came out defending the legality of the petition by citing cases from the past, but none explained consitutional status of the current version. Far more people have been saying it has no legal legs to stand on all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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