loong Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I have made the odd loan to locals and usually it has not caused me too much grief. Recently a neighbour borrowed a car and managed to hit and kill a cow on the road. It was the time of day that cows have priority and so he was automatically at fault. Now he has to pay for the dead cow and for the damages to the car. He came to us and asked to borrow 40,000 Baht and would deposit the documents to his and his wife's land as security. The land does not have Chanot, it's the same as many plots of land in villages - subject to a claim and all transfers are done with a signature from the headman, not the land office. This is not so much a problem as this is how it is done in the rural areas. I could see no way that this couple would be able to repay the loan as they have a very small income, so I had to refuse. If we took the papers as collateral and then kicked them off of the land when they didn't pay, we would be seen as the bad guys. Next thing, the husband offered the land for sale at 60,000 Baht for land and house. We discussed this and decided that my gf would buy. My gf went to tell that she would buy and the wife stated that the price would be 70,000. We were annoyed that a plot was offered at a price an then increased when we were interested, so we dropped out. Next thing they came back and said that the price was 60,000, but they wanted to take the house down and just sell the land for 50,000 Baht. We agreed and I went to the bank and drew the funds. What happens now? I have the money to pay them, I will give them a bit of time to dismantle their house and take it away. They then announce that they will need 6 months to sort out a new piece of land an build the house. So they want us to buy the land, and let them stay another 6 months. Of course you know what will happen, after 6 months they will have done nothing and if we kick them out we will be seen as the bad guys again. Do people actually go along with Krap like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I have made the odd loan to locals and usually it has not caused me too much grief.Recently a neighbour borrowed a car and managed to hit and kill a cow on the road. It was the time of day that cows have priority and so he was automatically at fault. Now he has to pay for the dead cow and for the damages to the car. He came to us and asked to borrow 40,000 Baht and would deposit the documents to his and his wife's land as security. The land does not have Chanot, it's the same as many plots of land in villages - subject to a claim and all transfers are done with a signature from the headman, not the land office. This is not so much a problem as this is how it is done in the rural areas. I could see no way that this couple would be able to repay the loan as they have a very small income, so I had to refuse. If we took the papers as collateral and then kicked them off of the land when they didn't pay, we would be seen as the bad guys. Next thing, the husband offered the land for sale at 60,000 Baht for land and house. We discussed this and decided that my gf would buy. My gf went to tell that she would buy and the wife stated that the price would be 70,000. We were annoyed that a plot was offered at a price an then increased when we were interested, so we dropped out. Next thing they came back and said that the price was 60,000, but they wanted to take the house down and just sell the land for 50,000 Baht. We agreed and I went to the bank and drew the funds. What happens now? I have the money to pay them, I will give them a bit of time to dismantle their house and take it away. They then announce that they will need 6 months to sort out a new piece of land an build the house. So they want us to buy the land, and let them stay another 6 months. Of course you know what will happen, after 6 months they will have done nothing and if we kick them out we will be seen as the bad guys again. Do people actually go along with Krap like this? Where I come from its called "taking the p*ss"..If you havent paid the money over yet...dont..tell them the deals off...you have a sick buffalo in your own country and need to pay to for vetinary treatment. This is calculated and planned on their part, doesnt strike me as someone who is sincere and really needs help, most likely this game is being played because you are a farang and they think you are a soft touch In summary...fukc them...put your money back in the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Loong,you seem to be a good bloke,but you are a foreigner here.I guess this Krap like you say is getting around among locals. Just imagine you are broke and you go around asking money..How many people do you think would like to help you? Moreover,why do your neighbours need a foreigner to solve their financial troubles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loong Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Soutpeel, you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter. I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Soutpeel,you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter. I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens. Well if it was me, On principle, I wouldnt even give them the money even if they vacated the land, you were prepared to offer a helping hand and they tried to take the arm... Understand you want it for the GF, but even so, I still wouldnt, because even if you do, they have still "won". I would wait a little while and offer them THB 30,000 on condition they vacate the land... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Soutpeel,you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter. I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens. Well if it was me, On principle, I wouldnt even give them the money even if they vacated the land, you were prepared to offer a helping hand and they tried to take the arm... Understand you want it for the GF, but even so, I still wouldnt, because even if you do, they have still "won". I would wait a little while and offer them THB 30,000 on condition they vacate the land... But remember, the GF might want to live there one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Have you thought of buying the house and land, then renting it back to them? Say, 1000B a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Have you thought of buying the house and land, then renting it back to them? Say, 1000B a month. And what makes you think going this route, Loong would get his rent every month ?.. Going this route could possibly get very messy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denboy Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I have made the odd loan to locals and usually it has not caused me too much grief.Recently a neighbour borrowed a car and managed to hit and kill a cow on the road. It was the time of day that cows have priority and so he was automatically at fault. Now he has to pay for the dead cow and for the damages to the car. He came to us and asked to borrow 40,000 Baht and would deposit the documents to his and his wife's land as security. The land does not have Chanot, it's the same as many plots of land in villages - subject to a claim and all transfers are done with a signature from the headman, not the land office. This is not so much a problem as this is how it is done in the rural areas. I could see no way that this couple would be able to repay the loan as they have a very small income, so I had to refuse. If we took the papers as collateral and then kicked them off of the land when they didn't pay, we would be seen as the bad guys. Next thing, the husband offered the land for sale at 60,000 Baht for land and house. We discussed this and decided that my gf would buy. My gf went to tell that she would buy and the wife stated that the price would be 70,000. We were annoyed that a plot was offered at a price an then increased when we were interested, so we dropped out. Next thing they came back and said that the price was 60,000, but they wanted to take the house down and just sell the land for 50,000 Baht. We agreed and I went to the bank and drew the funds. What happens now? I have the money to pay them, I will give them a bit of time to dismantle their house and take it away. They then announce that they will need 6 months to sort out a new piece of land an build the house. So they want us to buy the land, and let them stay another 6 months. Of course you know what will happen, after 6 months they will have done nothing and if we kick them out we will be seen as the bad guys again. Do people actually go along with Krap like this? You say their is no chanote. Well I have been there and done that. I have bought land for my partner in Issan in similar circumstances. What you need to do is go to the local land office and explain the situation. You will pay a fee and they will send out a surveyor who take all the measurements etc, You wait awhile and an official land document will be drawn up showing the land boundaries. After completion the said owners have to sign it over to you. at the land office in their presence. Only then do you hand over any money. It is a bit drawn out but if you slip the usual tea money it can be over in a couple of weeks.When it comes down to the nitty gritty the village headmen business signing is a throwback from a long time ago when it comes to such as legal land disputes. be on the save side and do as I suggested. Imagine a couple of decades hence when perhaps you are not on the scene and your lady is harrassed over the legality of the land. The difficult part is doing it with a smile on your face and preventing the sellers losing that all important Issan FACE. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How about drawing up a contract with the local headman that you hand over the money when the house is dismantled and land vacated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maizefarmer Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Not wisthstanding the fact what you are describing (i.e. the lending of money against occupied land without a Chanote) does happen on a regular basis in the rural areas, if push came to shove you could find yourself with a long and complicated legal battle on your hands. The golden rule in lending money against land/house is the Chanote document - and if you look at the government printed "money lenders" contract (which can be purchased in many staionary stores and is precisouly for this sort of local lending), rule 1 on the back warns lenders in no uncertain terms about the risks they face if a Chanote cannot be produced. You are going to have to way up the risks on this one and make a decision - personally, I wouldn;t touch it with a bargepole. If they were genuiely up against the wall option wise they'd be in no position to keep moving the goal posts as they have done. Put your foot down and see what response you get. By the way - just what sort of titleship applies to this land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Don't get involved with this, trust me ! It is already difficult to deal with Thais when everything is spelled out clearly. There are too many things that could go wrong in this deal. It looks too good to be true ...it is ! It will come back to bite you !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) Have you thought of buying the house and land, then renting it back to them? Say, 1000B a month. And what makes you think going this route, Loong would get his rent every month ?.. Going this route could possibly get very messy.. If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (loosing face), and not loong. Set it all up with the village head first. It's a win win, after 60 months loong gets a free house and land. Edit, Correction, the GF gets a free house and land after 60 months. Edited August 1, 2009 by Garry9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) How about drawing up a contract with the local headman Contract.. .... ....where do you think you are Toto...New York ?? What happens if the headman decides the house is not going to be dismantled..you going to put a lawyer on him, sure he will be quaking in his flip flops... Hows about...bunging the the clown who tried to scam you THB 30,000 to vacate the land and bung the headman THB 10,000 to make sure it happens... payment paid over once your honest neighbour has "left the building"...and maybe a THB 5000 to your local plod ot make sure your neigbours dont come back and squat on the land ?? By my calculation that leaves you THB 5000, out of your THB 50,000 budget....give to the GF to go shoopping Edited August 1, 2009 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackdanielsesq Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Right now, you are ahead of the shell-game - keep it that way. Sick buffalo/dog works BR>Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (loosing face), and not loong. Set it all up with the village head first. It's a win win, after 60 months loong gets a free house and land.Edit, Correction, the GF gets a free house and land after 60 months. Gary, going to suggest you are being very naive sorry mate...in Thailand nothing is win win, Winner takes it all. Loong needs to decide if he wants to back out (which is what I would do) or take the land "clean" no tenants, no house and vastly "reduced" discount price...These people where trying to take the piss, they obviously dont care about "face"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How about drawing up a contract with the local headman Contract.. .... ....where do you think you are Toto...New York ?? What happens if the headman decides the house is not going to be dismantled..you going to put a lawyer on him, sure he will be quaking in his flip flops... Hows about...bunging the the clown who tried to scam you THB 30,000 to vacate the than and bung the headman THB 10,000 to make sure it happens... payment paid over once your honest neighbour has "left the building"...and maybe a THB 5000 to your local plod ot make sure your neigbours dont come back and squat on the land ?? People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) How about drawing up a contract with the local headman Contract.. .... ....where do you think you are Toto...New York ?? What happens if the headman decides the house is not going to be dismantled..you going to put a lawyer on him, sure he will be quaking in his flip flops... Hows about...bunging the the clown who tried to scam you THB 30,000 to vacate the than and bung the headman THB 10,000 to make sure it happens... payment paid over once your honest neighbour has "left the building"...and maybe a THB 5000 to your local plod ot make sure your neigbours dont come back and squat on the land ?? People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones. Hey look boys and girls..the grammer/spelling Police have turned up... ...Garry, mate, save it for your English class on Monday... Edited August 1, 2009 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I would guess that the girlfriend/wife is pressuring you to buy. How else would you know the land was available ??? Stand up to the wife and walk away from this one. She will get over it. If you buy and it gos wrong she will have 100 ways to take care of the problem, all of which will be crazy, wrong etc.. We all want to do nice things for our gf but this looks like a problem. let it pass ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 personally, I wouldn;t touch it with a bargepole. If they were genuiely up against the wall option wise they'd be in no position to keep moving the goal posts as they have done. Put your foot down and see what response you get. Don't get involved with this, trust me !It is already difficult to deal with Thais when everything is spelled out clearly. There are too many things that could go wrong in this deal. It looks too good to be true ...it is ! It will come back to bite you !!!! Personally, I'd entertain them no further. You've extended a helping hand (that you might also gain is irrelevant) and they're taking the arm and the piss. Why would you want the hassle of dealing with people like this? It's not going to go smoothly and will ultimately mess with your head. If you want to pick up a plot for the missus, pop down your bank and take a look at their property boards. <deleted> these people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (loosing face), and not loong. Set it all up with the village head first. It's a win win, after 60 months loong gets a free house and land.Edit, Correction, the GF gets a free house and land after 60 months. Gary, going to suggest you are being very naive sorry mate...in Thailand nothing is win win, Winner takes it all. Loong needs to decide if he wants to back out (which is what I would do) or take the land "clean" no tenants, no house and vastly "reduced" discount price...These people where trying to take the piss, they obviously dont care about "face"..... Up to Loong really, it's just a suggestion. Where are you uncle? Edited August 1, 2009 by Garry9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (loosing face), and not loong. Set it all up with the village head first. It's a win win, after 60 months loong gets a free house and land.Edit, Correction, the GF gets a free house and land after 60 months. Gary, going to suggest you are being very naive sorry mate...in Thailand nothing is win win, Winner takes it all. Loong needs to decide if he wants to back out (which is what I would do) or take the land "clean" no tenants, no house and vastly "reduced" discount price...These people where trying to take the piss, they obviously dont care about "face"..... Up to Loong really, it's just a suggestion. Where are you uncle? Garry, please pay attention in class..glance to your left and look at Loong's details and you will see he is located in Khon Kaen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerchang Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GIVE MONEY. No chanote...no deal..worthless land (to you) contract or not. They'll wipe their sick buffaloes arse on said contract. Jing jing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdman Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Many aspects involved: where can they live afterwards LONG TIME, considering their financial situation and the fact how long they lived there already and how they get their land? what is it about the land document? Is the price justified considering size, location, condition, status of land document...? what you wanna do with that land later? wife's decision? you live there and asked for advice re the strange sister already - new community issues, if you check them out? ... and why do they have to sale their land, which has a minor title, because they have to pay for the cow? no other means? The cow is not that exepnsive...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry9999 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (loosing face), and not loong. Set it all up with the village head first. It's a win win, after 60 months loong gets a free house and land.Edit, Correction, the GF gets a free house and land after 60 months. Gary, going to suggest you are being very naive sorry mate...in Thailand nothing is win win, Winner takes it all. Loong needs to decide if he wants to back out (which is what I would do) or take the land "clean" no tenants, no house and vastly "reduced" discount price...These people where trying to take the piss, they obviously dont care about "face"..... Up to Loong really, it's just a suggestion. Where are you uncle? Garry, please pay attention in class..glance to your left and look at Loong's details and you will see he is located in Khon Kaen... So it's detention on Monday then, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorro1 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Soutpeel,you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter. I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens. They will take your money, spend it in a month and then cry poor at eviction time. stick with your final offer and what you posted above. Dont try and screw them down not worth them or you gaining/losing face. Your in the box seat with your above post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 This sounds like a deliberate attempt to defraud you. They will get the money and you will get nothing back. This type of person will often borrow smaller amounts of money and repay them to establish trust, then they go for the big one and you get nothing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerchang Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GIVE MONEY. No chanote...no deal..worthless land (to you) contract or not. They'll wipe their sick buffaloes arse on said contract. Jing jing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visareal Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Soutpeel,you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter. I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens. trusting them to leave the land is one thing. as soon as you pay up, they will be moving back lock, stock and barrel - usually with the whole village in tow! keep your money in the bank as suggested. that way uyou still keep your sanity. remember, farang never win in thailand most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visareal Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 This sounds like a deliberate attempt to defraud you. They will get the money and you will get nothing back.This type of person will often borrow smaller amounts of money and repay them to establish trust, then they go for the big one and you get nothing back. how true! they are testing you now. the big one like a tsunami is brewing out there somewhere. when it strikes, you have no time to put your pants on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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