Buying/selling Land

[visareal]

This sounds like a deliberate attempt to defraud you. They will get the money and you will get nothing back.

This type of person will often borrow smaller amounts of money and repay them to establish trust, then they go for the big one and you get nothing back.

squatters right , heard of it? here in thailand, take the queue from klong toey, bangkok. these squatters hvae been around for hundreds of years like the barrios elsewhere. keep your money, buy an ice-cream or whatever for your gf better.

[visareal]

Soutpeel,

you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter.

I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens.

They will take your money, spend it in a month and then cry poor at eviction time. stick with your final offer and what you posted above. Dont try and screw them down not worth them or you gaining/losing face. Your in the box seat with your above post

you sure your gf or her relatives or others behind your gf is not behind all these? don't mean to be turning you into a cynic but then magnamity on your part may mean stupidity or the perfect target to others - not your gf for the moment , of course. times are hard, you know. no one knows what lurks behind the scenes , you know.

Edited August 1, 2009 by visareal

[beerchang]

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GIVE MONEY. No chanote...no deal..worthless land (to you) contract or not. They'll wipe their sick buffaloes arse on said contract. Jing jing.

[Harcourt]

Assuming you want the land and that it is good value, and assuming you actually want to help....

Has the debtor tried to make a deal with the creditor?

If the creditor just wants cash, and not the land, organise tripartite talks to negotiate a deal where the creditor takes ownership of the land to his own satisfaction, knowing that you will buy it from him if he dots all the i's and crosses all the t's.

Debtor clears his obligation, creditor gets his money (with profit for doing the legwork), and your GF gets the land if the creditor gets the paperwork straight and evicts the previous owners.

win, win, win.

[loong]

Wow, I'm quite surprised at the number of responses to this topic. I posted the topic, because I am so amazed at the attitude of some people. How can they sell a plot of land and expect to continue to live there?

Some of your comments...........

MauGri: Moreover,why do your neighbours need a foreigner to solve their financial troubles?

They managed to borrow some cash to pay for the cow - 4,500 Baht apparently. Nobody is willing to lend them such a large amount as is required to repair the car.

It's not that they need a foreigner to solve their problem, but there a very few people with any sort of real money here. The Chinese loan shark in Khon Kaen charges 6% per month and wouldn't advance 40,000 on that plot anyway.

The couple that own the local shop may be in a financial position to buy the land, but are not interested as they can foresee problems with the deal.

Soutpeel: Understand you want it for the GF, but even so, I still wouldnt, because even if you do, they have still "won". I would wait a little while and offer them THB 30,000 on condition they vacate the land...

I don't want to take advantage when somebody is down on their luck. They have very limited options as nobody is willing to lend them the money and people are not queuing up to buy the land.If/when they realise that they really have no choices, we may be able to do the deal.

It's a nice corner plot, but doesn't connect to my gf's land, but in future we may be able to buy a strip from another neighbour and connect the 2 plots.

I would use this land as a garden plot for now and consider it an investment for the gf's children.

Gary9999: Have you thought of buying the house and land, then renting it back to them? Say, 1000B a month?.......

If the tenants are not paying the rent, they would be the bad guys (losing face), and not loong......

Where are you uncle?

This thought did cross my mind, but I consider it very unlikely that we would actually receive any rent. They are poor and I doubt that they could find an extra 1000 or even 500 Baht per month. After all, they've been unable to save any money up to now.

If we were forced to evict them, I would still be seen as the bad guy.

We are 25 Km north of Khon Kaen city.

Denboy: Imagine a couple of decades hence when perhaps you are not on the scene and your lady is harrassed over the legality of the land.

The difficult part is doing it with a smile on your face and preventing the sellers losing that all important Issan FACE.

Good luck

Thanks. I'm afraid that I get confused with all the different types of land deeds in Thailand. At the moment there are no problems with the system in place. Another neighbour recently had their title upgraded to full Chanote. It happens, but very slowly.

Maizefarmer: You are going to have to way up the risks on this one and make a decision - personally, I wouldn;t touch it with a bargepole. If they were genuiely up against the wall option wise they'd be in no position to keep moving the goal posts as they have done. Put your foot down and see what response you get.

They are up against a wall option wise, but they don't appear to realise it yet! My foot is well and truly down now. Good advice - thanks.

ttthailand: I would guess that the girlfriend/wife is pressuring you to buy. How else would you know the land was available ??? Stand up to the wife and walk away from this one. She will get over it. If you buy and it gos wrong she will have 100 ways to take care of the problem, all of which will be crazy, wrong etc..

No pressure from the gf at all. In fact she is more peed off with these people than I am. We have money saved from my budget and want to buy some more land, but people round here are usually unrealistic re the values.

Birdman: Many aspects involved:

where can they live afterwards LONG TIME, considering their financial situation and the fact how long they lived there already and how they get their land?

what is it about the land document? Is the price justified considering size, location, condition, status of land document...?

what you wanna do with that land later? wife's decision?

and why do they have to sale their land, which has a minor title, because they have to pay for the cow? no other means? The cow is not that exepnsive...!

Yes Birdman - many aspects

They've been offered the use of some land in exchange for some work in lieu of rent. Now the wife is not too keen on this arrangement as she says that they will be servants!

Taking everything into consideration, I think that the price of the land is reasonable as long as it is with vacant possession!

The land would be used as a garden and maybe keep a few chickens. Eventually build a house for the children.

They need the money mainly to pay for the repairs to the car. I've seen it and the front end is well smashed up! Understandably, the owner wants his car repaired.

zorro1: They will take your money, spend it in a month and then cry poor at eviction time. stick with your final offer and what you posted above. Dont try and screw them down not worth them or you gaining/losing face. Your in the box seat..

I think that most of the money will be used immediately. They'd be lucky to have 10,000 Baht after paying for the car repairs and the cow.

When they offered the land for sale, I was given the impression that they had somewhere else to go. Now the wife doesn't want to take that option. She says that they need time to save and buy some other land - of course that won't happen. As you say, if we gave them 6 months to sort themselves out, they would be in exactly the same position as now except they'd probably have frittered away the 10,000 Baht!

Harcourt: Assuming you want the land and that it is good value, and assuming you actually want to help....

Has the debtor tried to make a deal with the creditor?

I do feel sorry for these people and yes, I would like to add this plot of land to the family assets.

By the creditor I assume you mean the car owner. He has been actively involved as he realises there is only one way that his car will be repaired - the couple have to sell the land. Also there is only us who are interested in buying it. The car owner has been a few times to try to work out a compromise. He came yesterday with the landowner while I was home alone and tried to assure me that they would vacate after 7 days. The owner kept interrupting and saying 3 months! They should try out as a comedy duo to raise some cash!

It has to be vacant possession or no deal.

Funnily enough the lady who lives next to us told my gf that if we bought her land, she would be gone the same day. I think that she was semi -joking, maybe fishing for an offer. My gf didn't respond as she feels that she wants too much for the land.

You never know, now that people here realise that we are serious about buying land, somebody may offer us something that we want at the right price.

The car owner is part-owner of the land on the other side where his Mother-in-law lives. That land has been vaguely offered to us in the past, but too much money. We would be prepared to pay a premium for that land as it would be perfect for us. Dare I hope that this piece of land will come up for sale? We would pay 100K for that plot.

[WeeGB]

Hi, It seems to me that the easiest and possibly best solution for you, is to let the car owner and the chap that damaged the car, sort out their problem between them. You should keep well away from this.

Is there a good reason why these folks can't put up their land as a surety to the local bank to get this money?

If the car owner does not trust these people to vacate the land, and give him the deeds, why on earth would you?

Neither a borrower or a lender be - old english proverb, very sensible, even more so for a farang in Thailand.

The recession has not really bitten hard here yet, when it does, that's the time to go looking for land to buy, be patient, everything comes to he who waits. (Another proverb).

[mca]

Sorry wrong thread

Edited August 2, 2009 by mca

[loong]

Hi, It seems to me that the easiest and possibly best solution for you, is to let the car owner and the chap that damaged the car, sort out their problem between them. You should keep well away from this.

Is there a good reason why these folks can't put up their land as a surety to the local bank to get this money?

If the car owner does not trust these people to vacate the land, and give him the deeds, why on earth would you?

Neither a borrower or a lender be - old english proverb, very sensible, even more so for a farang in Thailand.

The recession has not really bitten hard here yet, when it does, that's the time to go looking for land to buy, be patient, everything comes to he who waits. (Another proverb).

Sorry, I don't quite understand your points.

I'm not involved with the problem between the landowner and car owner. The damage to the car is the reason that the land was offered for sale. I'm only interested in the possibility of purchasing the land.

With no obvious income and without full Chanote, a bank will not lend money.

The car owner has never asked to be given the deeds to the property, where did you get that idea from? He doesn't want the land, he wants the money to repair his car.

Neither a borrower or a lender be - If I'd never borrowed money, I would not now have 2 properties in the UK. No way I could have paid cash for them.

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel: Understand you want it for the GF, but even so, I still wouldnt, because even if you do, they have still "won". I would wait a little while and offer them THB 30,000 on condition they vacate the land...

I don't want to take advantage when somebody is down on their luck. They have very limited options as nobody is willing to lend them the money and people are not queuing up to buy the land.If/when they realise that they really have no choices, we may be able to do the deal.

It's a nice corner plot, but doesn't connect to my gf's land, but in future we may be able to buy a strip from another neighbour and connect the 2 plots.

I would use this land as a garden plot for now and consider it an investment for the gf's children.

Loong, you may not want to take advantage of them, but the fact remains...they were trying to take advantage of you after you where prepared to lend a helping hand, I would question, if this was a Thai on Thai thing and no Farang involved and they tried to pull the same stunt...what would have happened ??

Also you have to ask the question, why is nobody else is prepared to lend them the money or queuing up to buy the land ??.....

I understand your motivation in wanting to buy this land, but even so you should tread very carefully should you decide to go ahead with this, in my experience in Thailand, there are usually things which are going on behind the scenes which as a farang you are not privy to.....

[loong]

Also you have to ask the question, why is nobody else is prepared to lend them the money or queuing up to buy the land ??...

They wanted a loan of 40,000 Baht before. If the Chinese moneylender had advanced that they would have had to pay 2,400 Baht just in interest every month. That's probably close to their monthly income. Nobody else around here (except me and possibly 2 others) has that sort of money to lend. Everybody knows that there is absolutely no chance that they will ever be in a position to repay a loan. When they asked us for a loan, we really had no choice but to refuse because we knew that it would only lead to problems. There's nothing worse than helping somebody out and then continually have to chase them for the money back.

In all honesty, nobody here has the money to buy the land and there are no new buyers coming in from outside. When most people buy a new property, it's because they are moving to a town or city where they have a chance of regular work. In a village like this, usually the only buyers are family of people who already live here and maybe when the youngsters become adults.

I understand your motivation in wanting to buy this land, but even so you should tread very carefully should you decide to go ahead with this, in my experience in Thailand, there are usually things which are going on behind the scenes which as a farang you are not privy to.....

I have known of many deals like this and only know of one problem. A woman who owned a nice plot but without a chanote allowed her nephew to live there as she worked away. The nephew managed to sell the land. It seems that possession is 9/10ths of the law here as well!

I will tread as carefully as possible if this deal does go ahead, but at the end of the day I have to hope that my gf takes every sensible precaution. After all, it will be her land - not mine.

The couple have now disappeared and I've heard that they are off visiting various relatives in the hope of either borrowing money or acquiring some land in some way. Maybe they will be lucky, maybe they will return with a change in attitude. We will just have to wait and see.

[Soutpeel]

I will tread as carefully as possible if this deal does go ahead, but at the end of the day I have to hope that my gf takes every sensible precaution. After all, it will be her land - not mine.

Granted it will the GF's land, but if there are future issues, by default these issues will end up becoming your issues...

Been through a similar experience, although not directly related to land, My wifes distant relatives, because there was a Farang in family started playing games, and coming up with sob stories etc, my wife being a bit a "soft touch" in matters like this almost fell for the "scam" that was being planned by the distant relatives.

The stories she was relating to me, didnt make sense...as an Engineer, I have to find logic in everything and these stories didnt have any rhyme, reason or logic to them.

Eventually the little light bulb went on in Mrs Soutpeel's head and she realised she was being set up, as a result she was furious with the distant relatives and no longer talks or has anything to do with them, Even her immediate family will have nothing to do with the outlaws..

So these days, anything to do with "Family or neighbour problems" involving money/land etc in Thailand, I am very cynical from the outset...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Don't get involved with this, trust me !

It is already difficult to deal with Thais when everything is spelled out clearly. There are too many things that could go wrong in this deal. It looks too good to be true ...it is !

It will come back to bite you !!!!

Dead right.

[scorecard]

Soutpeel,

you have exactly expressed my feelings in this matter.

I would like for my gf to have this land, but now only with vacant possession. They leave the land I will pay the money - they don't leave, nothing happens.

You sound pretty level headed to me.

- I agree, tell them that you will pay the money when the house and all other possessions has been moved off the land.

- Also tell them that there must be an exchange of documents at the same moment the cash is paid., this might convince them that your genuine, perhaps get a check that the documents are in order

- Ensure your gf realises that this is the best approach.

On the other side of the picture, I'm prety lucky, my immediate Thai family are quite logical and they all speak good English, there's always good logical discussion about the pros and cons of anything that comes up and they make good decisions, decide who is repsonsible for what, etc.

But! We have numerous extended relations who are totally disfunctional. They instantly buy things through loans sharks that they don't need and can't afford. They pack up the family and move to other provinces at the drop of a hat, then quickly realize that it was a mistake and then make another silly plan, etc., etc., etc. (Not the point here, but the thing which disturbs me most is that there are numerous children involved who's educational is totally disjointed, they change schools continuously, they miss school for months at a time, their school books are thrown away as part of the next move, their future is not a good picture.)

I also have several farang friends / acquaintances who see the disfunctional decisions / actions day by day.

My point is that the continuous changing of plans by the people who are selling the land is pretty normal.

[loong]

UPDATE.

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who showed an interest and many offered helpful advice.

The couple found a buyer for the house and it was dismantled and taken away.

This just left the land with vacant possession and a few weeks back, the headman witnessed the transfer and so my gf became the owner for the payment of 50,000 Baht.

Last week my gf went to the Amphur and now has (i'm not sure exactly) chaw Taw Saam deed on the land,so now her ownership is registered with the Amphur.

Apparently she has been advised by the Amphur that the upgrade to Chanote is a mere formality now, so by the end of next week, she could well be holding full chanote title to the land.

Other people in this area have also just been advised that they are able to upgrade the deeds to their land. It does seem that there is a fee involved of 3 or 4 thousand Baht. Not sure if this is legit or "Tea Money", but anyway if my gf gets full chanote title to the land, I will be happy.

Thanks again to the many that offered good constructive advice