The Stock Market

[lannarebirth]

BREAKING NEWS

new home sales errrm down a lot

new home sales down errrm a lot

New home sales cannot be down a lot because they were not a lot beforehand.

(Oh and this whole thing of releasing a figure that doesnt look too bad because you have just revised down last months figure is getting pretty tedious.)

Month after month, quarter after quarter, economic data is being revised negatively. For INVESTMENT and not trading purposes, I would like to see revisions start to go the other way.

[Abrak]

Month after month, quarter after quarter, economic data is being revised negatively. For INVESTMENT and not trading purposes, I would like to see revisions start to go the other way.

Yes that would be good wouldnt it? When the economy is accelerating numbers get revised up and when in recession revised down. However, I believe they simply get revised down under all economic conditions. I think I read somewhere that the employment numbers have been revised down by an average of 80k per month over the last 10 years, which would be about 50% of the reported rise. And they recently announced they had overstated employment by 840k. Same applies to GDP 1Q decline revised from 5.5% to 6.4%.

http://www.bls.gov/ces/cesprelbmk.htm

[zorro1]

looks like last few days a big tree shake. Friday usa profit taking tonight, if by chance it is green again then just maybe the correction done. What was the cataylist for the jump? missed cnn last night

[Naam]

looks like last few days a big tree shake. Friday usa profit taking tonight, if by chance it is green again then just maybe the correction done. What was the cataylist for the jump? missed cnn last night

numba economic USA better too mut then expect.

[zorro1]

looks like last few days a big tree shake. Friday usa profit taking tonight, if by chance it is green again then just maybe the correction done. What was the cataylist for the jump? missed cnn last night

numba economic USA better too mut then expect.

Zis MEAN ze`vore is over? looked a tad more than short covering..

[zorro1]

US emerges from long recession

http://www.thebull.com.au/articles_detail.php?id=7015

30.10.2009 12:42 PM

The United States has emerged from a long and crippling recession, posting its strongest growth in two years in the third quarter as government stimulus spurred consumer spending, official data showed on Thursday.

After four negative quarters, the world's largest economy grew at a seasonally adjusted 3.5-per cent annual rate in the July-September period from the second quarter, the Commerce Department said.

EDIT

I know that many went short yesterday, Why traders bet against an up trending dow is beyond me. Media always provide the spark I guess

Edited October 30, 2009 by zorro1

[lannarebirth]

I know that many went short yesterday, Why traders bet against an up trending dow is beyond me. Media always provide the spark I guess

That is hard to believe. If so, you need to trade with a smarter group.

Going short yesterday would mean that they were betting that after 4 down days in a row there would e a fifth. Low statistical odds. Going short yesterday would mean that reaching the 50 day ma where most were looking to buy back in they thought they should sell. Going short before the most awaited bit of economic data in weeks. Hmmm

Edited October 30, 2009 by lannarebirth

[zorro1]

I know that many went short yesterday, Why traders bet against an up trending dow is beyond me. Media always provide the spark I guess

That is hard to believe. If so, you need to trade with a smarter group.

Going short yesterday would mean that they were betting that after 4 down days in a row there would e a fifth. Low statistical odds. Going short yesterday would mean that reaching the 50 day ma where most were looking to buy back in they thought they should sell. Going short before the most awaited bit of economic data in weeks. Hmmm

most buy at the top of a rally, you know that as well as i do. Same would apply in a short. Agree with your odds but to the average punter it didnt look real good. I think the longest up trend in the recent rise was 11 days straight and yes you could see the dumping on 4th and 5th day. Trade with a smarter group? hmmm... a little bit of sarcasm I detect My trading is brilliant on display page by page, thanks for the suggestion however my group is doing quite well

[lannarebirth]

I know that many went short yesterday, Why traders bet against an up trending dow is beyond me. Media always provide the spark I guess

That is hard to believe. If so, you need to trade with a smarter group.

Going short yesterday would mean that they were betting that after 4 down days in a row there would e a fifth. Low statistical odds. Going short yesterday would mean that reaching the 50 day ma where most were looking to buy back in they thought they should sell. Going short before the most awaited bit of economic data in weeks. Hmmm

most buy at the top of a rally, you know that as well as i do. Same would apply in a short. Agree with your odds but to the average punter it didnt look real good. I think the longest up trend in the recent rise was 11 days straight and yes you could see the dumping on 4th and 5th day. Trade with a smarter group? hmmm... a little bit of sarcasm I detect My trading is brilliant on display page by page, thanks for the suggestion however my group is doing quite well

I wasn't being sarcastic, really. I just find it hard to believe that anyone thought yesterday was a good day to initiate a short position.

[zorro1]

I know that many went short yesterday, Why traders bet against an up trending dow is beyond me. Media always provide the spark I guess

That is hard to believe. If so, you need to trade with a smarter group.

Going short yesterday would mean that they were betting that after 4 down days in a row there would e a fifth. Low statistical odds. Going short yesterday would mean that reaching the 50 day ma where most were looking to buy back in they thought they should sell. Going short before the most awaited bit of economic data in weeks. Hmmm

most buy at the top of a rally, you know that as well as i do. Same would apply in a short. Agree with your odds but to the average punter it didnt look real good. I think the longest up trend in the recent rise was 11 days straight and yes you could see the dumping on 4th and 5th day. Trade with a smarter group? hmmm... a little bit of sarcasm I detect My trading is brilliant on display page by page, thanks for the suggestion however my group is doing quite well

I wasn't being sarcastic, really. I just find it hard to believe that anyone thought yesterday was a good day to initiate a short position.

No probs, I find it hard to believe the bears missed the whole rally thats 7 months of incorrect timing ? now thats a startling statistic. So taking a long short position any time in the last 4 days would have been a mistake. You dont think Anyone didnt? Now your obviously talking a 3 day trade, Should have made myself clearer

[flying]

So taking a long short position any time in the last 4 days would have been a mistake.

Like I said I did not buy....but SRS did come to mind when Capmark fell

SRS is a short

SRS did very well in these last 4 days didn't it?

[zorro1]

well this is getting interesting, wild swings and bears seem to have gained a little on large volume last night. In reality we are 50 points down but the volume is a worry. However the dow is still in the chanell and in an uptrend. same plan, and stick to it it got me this far, 9500 would indicate a reversal, long way and more support to be tested. The first 10 mins will provide great s/term buying ,stop loss, margin calls as the bargain hunters come on board a little later.

Also maybe a tad oversold considering end of month , book keeping, profit taking friday. Thank goodness oct is done. November should be soft however any major reversal and the horns come off

Edited October 31, 2009 by zorro1

[midas]

well this is getting interesting, wild swings and bears seem to have gained a little on large volume last night. In reality we are 50 points down but the volume is a worry. However the dow is still in the chanell and in an uptrend. same plan, and stick to it it got me this far, 9500 would indicate a reversal, long way and more support to be tested. The first 10 mins will provide great s/term buying ,stop loss, margin calls as the bargain hunters come on board a little later.

Also maybe a tad oversold considering end of month , book keeping, profit taking friday. Thank goodness oct is done. November should be soft however any major reversal and the horns come off :D

I think you would be far better informed to study the uptrend at the soup kitchens

rather than those on a chart to see what happens next

[zorro1]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

[Abrak]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

I have no idea where markets are going. But conceptually the buy story for the US market has evaporated. A lot of people I imagine bought 6 months ago because they could see the end of the recession 6-9 months away. Now we have had that growth number, it is a buy on rumor sell on fact sort of thing. Obviously if we get a V shaped recovery the market will go higher but I think a lot of people were betting on the fact there was bound to be an inventory bounce in the economy. So it shouldnt be that surprising that those people are now selling.

Before hand a lot of people were betting on recovery which has now happened and been 'announced'. Now theoretically investors are caught between a rock and a hard place, a disappointing recovery which will push things lower or a strong recovery which would put interest rates higher. I dont hold any stocks in the US market and havent all year but I suspect that many sellers now have a degree of conviction behind them.

[midas]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

That is because it is based on BULLsh**t

[midas]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

I have no idea where markets are going. But conceptually the buy story for the US market has evaporated. A lot of people I imagine bought 6 months ago because they could see the end of the recession 6-9 months away. Now we have had that growth number, it is a buy on rumor sell on fact sort of thing. Obviously if we get a V shaped recovery the market will go higher but I think a lot of people were betting on the fact there was bound to be an inventory bounce in the economy. So it shouldnt be that surprising that those people are now selling.

Before hand a lot of people were betting on recovery which has now happened and been 'announced'. Now theoretically investors are caught between a rock and a hard place, a disappointing recovery which will push things lower or a strong recovery which would put interest rates higher. I dont hold any stocks in the US market and havent all year but I suspect that many sellers now have a degree of conviction behind them.

More like a daily positive affirmation than an anouncement "Every day we are getting stronger and stronger."

[zorro1]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

I have no idea where markets are going. But conceptually the buy story for the US market has evaporated. A lot of people I imagine bought 6 months ago because they could see the end of the recession 6-9 months away. Now we have had that growth number, it is a buy on rumor sell on fact sort of thing. Obviously if we get a V shaped recovery the market will go higher but I think a lot of people were betting on the fact there was bound to be an inventory bounce in the economy. So it shouldnt be that surprising that those people are now selling.

Before hand a lot of people were betting on recovery which has now happened and been 'announced'. Now theoretically investors are caught between a rock and a hard place, a disappointing recovery which will push things lower or a strong recovery which would put interest rates higher. I dont hold any stocks. in the US market and havent all year but I suspect that many sellers now have a degree of conviction behind them.

Agreed totally but didnt think of it in the bigger picture such as an ANN "we have recovered." Of course buy the rumor sell the fact, Golden rule. there is the worry that selling the fact often sends the sp or dow in this case back way further than makes sense. As`i say expect the unexpected we are 100% still in an uptrend . I doubt many thought the the dow drop 250 after a 200 gain. Interesting post ABRAK

[zorro1]

that's the difference between you and me Midas, i post when markets up or down, you were hiding in a corner yesterday sucking your thumb. At least be consistent now back to your corner

I have no idea where markets are going. But conceptually the buy story for the US market has evaporated. A lot of people I imagine bought 6 months ago because they could see the end of the recession 6-9 months away. Now we have had that growth number, it is a buy on rumor sell on fact sort of thing. Obviously if we get a V shaped recovery the market will go higher but I think a lot of people were betting on the fact there was bound to be an inventory bounce in the economy. So it shouldnt be that surprising that those people are now selling.

Before hand a lot of people were betting on recovery which has now happened and been 'announced'. Now theoretically investors are caught between a rock and a hard place, a disappointing recovery which will push things lower or a strong recovery which would put interest rates higher. I dont hold any stocks in the US market and havent all year but I suspect that many sellers now have a degree of conviction behind them.

More like a daily positive affirmation than an anouncement "Every day we are getting stronger and stronger."

Midas you missed Abraks point altogether. You dont have a major sell off on "daily positive affirmation" thats the accumulation phase you dill . or the rumor phase if you like. Once the announcement is made then mission accomplished , profit time. medium term traders are out giving the opportunity for a new wave to enter for the next leg up if there is one or the bears to take control .

really mate buy a book or something this is pretty basic stuff

[Abrak]

You see Zorro fundamentalists were in a comfort zone before because 6 months ago even if there wasnt growth in 3q there would be in 4q. But as you have noticed recoveries get discounted before they happen. And the fact that people dont believe you is great. Markets dont do badly after the recession ends but they climb an average of 24% 6 months before and 8% 6 months after.

And here is the rub, actually noone is sure the recession has ended. Next quarters growth is forecast to be 2.5% vs 3.5% 3q and 1q next year is forecast at 1.1% growth. Now the last double dip recession was 1982 and the market sold off 27% into it. So I imagine there are a lot of people who dont like those odds. So if you are confident of a V shaped recovery you are in a sort of comfort zone because a lot of people who might sell now will buy back when they are more comfortable with economic growth. If you think about it, it is the uncertainty that is worrying people now - 3.5% recovery, followed by 2.5% all inventory, followed by 1.1%. Not good. Economic momentum has turned from positive to negative.

Oh and the other thing to watch out for on the fundamentals is this. I read 'the next leg of the bull market will be driven by earnings surprises.' The only thing that is going to surprise anyone is that they have earnings. Imagine an internet stock at some point it gets so overvalued that essentially nobody cares, they throw their books out the window and buy it. Then disaster happens - it makes a profit - and people start looking at PEs and DCFs and when it eventually gets fundamentals everyone realizes that it is massively overvalued on the fundamentals and the stock drops 80%. So the last thing the S&P needs (currently on 120x) is an earnings recovery.

Well those are the fundamentals and I guess that is why you spotted some serious sellers about. Other markets are off their highs - the SET by 10% - and there is no rush of new buyers. Whether this is enough to kill your markets momentum I have no clue.

[midas]

Midas you missed Abraks point altogether. You dont have a major sell off on "daily positive affirmation" thats the accumulation phase you dill . or the rumor phase if you like. Once the announcement is made then mission accomplished , profit time. medium term traders are out giving the opportunity for a new wave to enter for the next leg up if there is one or the bears to take control .

really mate buy a book or something this is pretty basic stuff

But I can't read. .....but I do understand pictures

[Abrak]

But I can't read. .....but I do understand pictures

Loved the music - braveheart - absolute classic

[zorro1]

Midas you missed Abraks point altogether. You dont have a major sell off on "daily positive affirmation" thats the accumulation phase you dill . or the rumor phase if you like. Once the announcement is made then mission accomplished , profit time. medium term traders are out giving the opportunity for a new wave to enter for the next leg up if there is one or the bears to take control .

really mate buy a book or something this is pretty basic stuff

But I can't read. .....but I do understand pictures

Lol excellent contribution hope wall st doesn't subscribe to to thai visa or Tuesday could be ugly. its good having you here though as an amateur I get my but kicked a bit , thank god your here at the bottom of the food chain so i can lay the boot in, please stay

[zorro1]

You see Zorro fundamentalists were in a comfort zone before because 6 months ago even if there wasnt growth in 3q there would be in 4q. But as you have noticed recoveries get discounted before they happen. And the fact that people dont believe you is great. Markets dont do badly after the recession ends but they climb an average of 24% 6 months before and 8% 6 months after.

And here is the rub, actually noone is sure the recession has ended. Next quarters growth is forecast to be 2.5% vs 3.5% 3q and 1q next year is forecast at 1.1% growth. Now the last double dip recession was 1982 and the market sold off 27% into it. So I imagine there are a lot of people who dont like those odds. So if you are confident of a V shaped recovery you are in a sort of comfort zone because a lot of people who might sell now will buy back when they are more comfortable with economic growth. If you think about it, it is the uncertainty that is worrying people now - 3.5% recovery, followed by 2.5% all inventory, followed by 1.1%. Not good. Economic momentum has turned from positive to negative.

Oh and the other thing to watch out for on the fundamentals is this. I read 'the next leg of the bull market will be driven by earnings surprises.' The only thing that is going to surprise anyone is that they have earnings. Imagine an internet stock at some point it gets so overvalued that essentially nobody cares, they throw their books out the window and buy it. Then disaster happens - it makes a profit - and people start looking at PEs and DCFs and when it eventually gets fundamentals everyone realizes that it is massively overvalued on the fundamentals and the stock drops 80%. So the last thing the S&P needs (currently on 120x) is an earnings recovery.

Well those are the fundamentals and I guess that is why you spotted some serious sellers about. Other markets are off their highs - the SET by 10% - and there is no rush of new buyers. Whether this is enough to kill your markets momentum I have no clue.

We had a great opportunity to buy up good stocks about 10 months ago, but many stayed out wanting some kind of magical signal to say "now is the time to buy". WPL, CBA and RIO were all down in the 20s! Why didn't many get in then?

Just a question for the bears - what signal are you waiting for? Just remember the market is not predictable and does not need to follow a certain pattern simply because the economic climate of the world evolves on a daily basis.

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

[basjke]

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

I never heard talking about the w pattern always the v one,however I don't believe in either of both.You think we are in an uptrend right now?Let's talk again after the next 2 weeks.We are still far from a recovery.Recent figures from the us governement are modified to give the markets a kickstart,which is needed if they want to get out of this mess.And a hughe mess they created,keep printing dollars boys I'm waiting for the time when dollar will be will be buy one get one free,and that will not take a long time anymore.You can't keep fooling the market with bogus figures and stimulus packages forever.

[zorro1]

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

I never heard talking about the w pattern always the v one,however I don't believe in either of both.You think we are in an uptrend right now?Let's talk again after the next 2 weeks.We are still far from a recovery.Recent figures from the us governement are modified to give the markets a kickstart,which is needed if they want to get out of this mess.And a hughe mess they created,keep printing dollars boys I'm waiting for the time when dollar will be will be buy one get one free,and that will not take a long time anymore.You can't keep fooling the market with bogus figures and stimulus packages forever.

They did an excellent job fooling everyone for the last 10 months? common now... what indicator are you using for a 2 week exit?

"You think we are in an uptrend right now?Let's talk again after the next 2 weeks"

I dont think, thats emotional . What the bears thought would happen never did. Quite bizarre considering T/A is so basic.

you need to know I dont think we are in uptrend, WE ARE still trading in an uptrend and within the channel.

your post is based on emotion and and opinion only, save that stuff for bar talk. when support is breached IM out. Thanks for the warning but ive been hearing it for the last 10 months

Edited October 31, 2009 by zorro1

[Abrak]

We had a great opportunity to buy up good stocks about 10 months ago, but many stayed out wanting some kind of magical signal to say "now is the time to buy". WPL, CBA and RIO were all down in the 20s! Why didn't many get in then?

Just a question for the bears - what signal are you waiting for? Just remember the market is not predictable and does not need to follow a certain pattern simply because the economic climate of the world evolves on a daily basis.

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

All very true Zorro. Actually I would love to say I got in at the bottom but I didnt - I bought way too early and didnt have the guts to buy more at lower levels and then bought some more after I had missed the first 20%. It isnt easy catching the bottoms and the tops (well for me it aint).

What you should realize though is that we are all momentum players now. You with your charts and your technicals and fundamentalists with their economics and earnings. I posted this chart on the economics thread. This is the recovery you see after a very harsh recession.

(apologies I posted this in another thread.)

Its just that if you think there is going to be a modicum of a v shaped recovery you need 6-9% growth next quarter (and even these two recessions arent really V (1980 being W). And the chances of that happening are somewhere between zero and not very much. So a simple slide in growth (which is widely forecast by economists) will scare the pants off anyone looking for a rebound from the worst recession since the war.

And the Midas's of this world are not going to invest, there have been 14 months in the last 60 years when trailing PEs have been so high and to be honest the average guy on the street doesnt think the recession is over simply because there has been some restocking to underpin economic growth. So with the fundamental momentum against you (and while you still have price momentum) I think it will be a minor miracle if this market goes to 12,000 on the Dow. Still if it gets there I will buy a hat.

I am rather bias though, the SET has risen just 5% since I arrived here 16 years ago and I sort of remember the stat that the Nikkei has had 4 50% rallies in the last 20 years and is still 70% below its peak.

[zorro1]

We had a great opportunity to buy up good stocks about 10 months ago, but many stayed out wanting some kind of magical signal to say "now is the time to buy". WPL, CBA and RIO were all down in the 20s! Why didn't many get in then?

Just a question for the bears - what signal are you waiting for? Just remember the market is not predictable and does not need to follow a certain pattern simply because the economic climate of the world evolves on a daily basis.

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

All very true Zorro. Actually I would love to say I got in at the bottom but I didnt - I bought way too early and didnt have the guts to buy more at lower levels and then bought some more after I had missed the first 20%. It isnt easy catching the bottoms and the tops (well for me it aint).

What you should realize though is that we are all momentum players now. You with your charts and your technicals and fundamentalists with their economics and earnings. I posted this chart on the economics thread. This is the recovery you see after a very harsh recession.

(apologies I posted this in another thread.)

Its just that if you think there is going to be a modicum of a v shaped recovery you need 6-9% growth next quarter (and even these two recessions arent really V (1980 being W). And the chances of that happening are somewhere between zero and not very much. So a simple slide in growth (which is widely forecast by economists) will scare the pants off anyone looking for a rebound from the worst recession since the war.

And the Midas's of this world are not going to invest, there have been 14 months in the last 60 years when trailing PEs have been so high and to be honest the average guy on the street doesnt think the recession is over simply because there has been some restocking to underpin economic growth. So with the fundamental momentum against you (and while you still have price momentum) I think it will be a minor miracle if this market goes to 12,000 on the Dow. Still if it gets there I will buy a hat.

I am rather bias though, the SET has risen just 5% since I arrived here 16 years ago and I sort of remember the stat that the Nikkei has had 4 50% rallies in the last 20 years and is still 70% below its peak.

Historically your correct however it is a prediction only and If we all followed ,the dow and the markets would not exit. My spanner is the stimulus or call it whatever you like hasn't been accounted for in your chart. No one really knows what affect it will have. We may even find lower lows or 09 may be the year that will go down in history as as the V

DIJA DOWN 2.5% HANGSENG UP 2.3% WHO WILL WIN?

If find the stat interesting and did notice that the asx detached from the dow in a very big way around feb I think. Dow -100 asx up , and basically doing its own thing

Everyone is bracing for a big drop tomorrow,but should the Aussie market still follow the moves in the US or whats happening in China ? Not tomorrow but in the very near future

I know there`s been a lot of talk about who follows who.

A report from bloomberg

Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) -- China’s manufacturing expanded at the fastest pace in 18 months and a government researcher said economic growth will accelerate this quarter.

Surging auto sales, driven by tax cuts and subsidies, are boosting manufacturing. Passenger-car purchases exceeded

1 million for the first time in September as General Motors Co., the largest overseas automaker in China, reported that sales doubled.

China will sustain its economic rebound this quarter and growth is likely to top the government’s 8 percent target for 2009, the central bank said Oct. 30.

edit

I only trade ASX

Edited November 1, 2009 by zorro1

[midas]

We had a great opportunity to buy up good stocks about 10 months ago, but many stayed out wanting some kind of magical signal to say "now is the time to buy". WPL, CBA and RIO were all down in the 20s! Why didn't many get in then?

Just a question for the bears - what signal are you waiting for? Just remember the market is not predictable and does not need to follow a certain pattern simply because the economic climate of the world evolves on a daily basis.

What if the much loved 'W' pattern finally occurs and then the market tanks straight after? There is never a guarantee for the market to be safe. I have my plan and my turn point. In the mean time will continue to buy Monday whilst we are in an uptrend. we must remember a 200 point drop is not a crash. Good luck all Monday, i will be waiting below but as elvis sang "way on down"

The same question could be asked would everyone have “ invested ”

their money with Bernie Madoff if they were invited ? No because there are enough out there that wouldn’t for

the same reason they didn’t participate in the rally……i.e. if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

If they keep this up we will have a total collapse of confidence in the financial markets after

reading this today- 2 days after NINE more banks closed in USA . This so called market has

lost all reality and how can you have faith when people think this way

Banks Get New Rules on Property ( Again ! )

Federal bank regulators issued guidelines allowing banks to keep loans on their books as "performing" even if the value of the underlying properties have fallen below the loan amount.

The volume of troubled commercial real-estate loans is skyrocketing. Regulators said that the rules were designed to encourage banks to restructure problem commercial mortgages with borrowers rather than foreclose on them. But the move has prompted criticism that regulators are simply prolonging the financial crisis by not forcing borrowers and lenders to confront, rather than delay, inevitable problems.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1256945070...MIDDLTopStories

[zorro1]

Midas cant reply to your madoff satement at he is in jail. Come on bud do some home work, ,MADOFF INVESTORS WILLL NEVER GET THEIR MONEY BACK. Get it? never. let it sink in Midas before you reply. Your implying the markets are a Ponzi scheme. Seriously dont mind the banter but cant reply to plain silly posting anymore. will miss you though dam_n you made me look good

Banks are old news champ, already over a 100 last week mostly small banks. Priced in already.