The Stock Market

[Parvis]

Abrak

as I noted - this is essentially a philosophical discussion. Who is right - is an opinion. But is is unlikely to be changed since a whole industry has been created around it. These derivatives are being created by the very same organizations who also controll them.

I do not necessarily disagree with you. Early on in my first postings in this thread I mentioned "the Market is controlled" - but not manipulated (as per PPT). Some posters objected strongly to my "conspiracy theory". You bring up exactly what I had been saying.

"Controlling" indicates leaving little to chance for the "Insurance providers" - not necessarily the "Insurance purchasers". Using my imagination - I can envision few organizations controlling the Financial World - in the future - but probably not during my life time.

"Controlling" also indicates there is a "methodical mechanism" used - which can be interpreted.

But if there were no demand - there would not be a supply. As I said a philosophical discussion about a subject which is unlikely to end.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Parvis

[Abrak]

Abrak

as I noted this is essentially a philosophical discussion. Who is right - is an opinion. But is is unlikely to be changed since a whole industry has been created around it. These derivatives are being created by the very same organizations who also controll them.

I do not necessarily disagree with you. Early on in my first postings in this thread I mentioned "the Market is controlled" - but not manipulated (as per PPT). Some posters objected strongly to my "conspiracy theory". You bring up exactly what I had been saying.

"Controlling" indicates leaving little to chance for the "Insurance providers" - not necessarily the "Insurance purchasers". Using my imagination - I can envision few organizations controlling the Financial World - but probably not during my life time.

"Controlling" also indicates there is a "methodical mechanism" used - which can be interpreted.

But if there were no demand - there would not be a supply. As I said a philosophical discussion about a subject which is unlikely to end.

Yes, you are right it is too philosophical to be worth getting too excited about. I certainly agree about the PPT thing. And even 'controlled' is too strong a word in my view. Capital was created to speculate on capital. The creators of derivatives used the risk side to create the volatility to build and make a price on the hedge side. Split the products to differentiate the risk.

I quite like the Canadian model and I quite like the Chinese model.

Anyhow after irritating everyone I might try and come up with something a little more informative in the next few days.

[Parvis]

You might have irritated some - but I certainly find these "philosophical discussions" interesting. In summary - we don't necessarily disagree that there may be potentially a huge problem looming in the future.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Parvis

[nakachalet]

Well I started a thread about trading Thai Stocks, I have to say not much interest. Abrak, was very helpful to me. ( showed me a simple way to chart a stock) Not in telling what to buy....90 days into this I'm just learning the language....

I believe you are voicing what many posters may feel. There is too much BS on this thread. I believe the exchange of ideas about trading can be useful from beginners to experts.

Parvis i missed your post.

....What is it in that chart that you dont understand Parvis? yellow triangle confirms start of an up trend and green triangle confirms it , bollingers are squeezed with the s/p forcing top bollinger up but still within. stochastic and mac d both turning up.... Whats your problem Parvis? Whats wrong with posting a basic chart

This is what I'd say is wrong with the chart, for my use anyway. Your off chart studies take up more screen space than does the price chart.... Better IMO to use dissimilar inputs which if all give a buy signal, it proves more reliable. I can't get my screen capture gizmo to show my whole setup but I'll show you what I mean using some of the charts on my screen Very ST buy signal at 1515 yesterday using three different methodologies.

lannarebirth

an interesting combination of charts using different time frames.... to arrive at.... and to confirm.... a decision.

the one minute time frame is reputedly used exclusively by scalpers and daytraders and the likes....

were you per chance scalping or daytrading at that moment in time too?

the signal provider of your charts is one of the more expensive firms in the market. it costs around 120 usd (?) for REAL TIME monthly basic service just for signal services alone; as i recall.

most free quote service providers use DELAYED SIGNAL, which could be some 20 minutes delayed which means the quoted price posted on screen is in reality come and gone some 20 minutes ago....

some thirty years ago, Financial News Network (anyone remembers sue, bollinger and ron--the analysts?) provided free quotes (20 min delay) running at the bottom of its screen. many traders then.... used those running numbers to formulate their trades.... at the time only brokerage firms could afford to have a quote line.... we were asked to pay some 5,000 usd to just LEASE the ugly square box for a month....

hunt brothers were alive and well.... silver was around 4 usd and went it was cornered peaking around 9 usd/oz by the hunt brothers, jealous brokers and brokerage houses were becoming unglued... federal investigation and grand jury were summoned.... i still remembered buying gold eagle pieces at around 35.25 usd/oz and i was then paid 0.65 usd/per hour doing roofing under hot michigan summer sun....

well.... it did help finance my higher education.... most worked the whole summer vacation so they could save enough to go to school in the fall, winter and spring semesters.... those were the happiest days.... and a burger was only 25 cents then....

to bring everything up to date, sue (my idol ) is now with cnbc.... and bollinger is now a master of his own ship.... many of us including ZORRO1 are using his creation--the upper bollinger band to start selling the market and unloading the longs.... for some reasons, i do not come across ron often nowadays.... he could have branched out and owned his own company as well....

thx much everyone for putting up with my nostalgic ranting....

Edited July 9, 2010 by nakachalet

[badge]

'Derivatives' is far too vague a term; there are derivatives that simply mirror cash markets, and there are derivatives based on derivatives of derivatives of derivatives based on theories. To lump them all together with the same 'derivatives' term is a misnomer.

[Parvis]

'Derivatives' is far too vague a term; there are derivatives that simply mirror cash markets, and there are derivatives based on derivatives of derivatives of derivatives based on theories. To lump them all together with the same 'derivatives' term is a misnomer.

A Rose by any other name - is still a Rose.

[zorro1]

Nakachalet

"many of us including ZORRO1 are using his creation--the upper bollinger band to start selling the market and unloading the longs..."

That is absolutely correct. Except in some cases where bollinger squeeze the s/p turns the bollinger up without penetrating. Along with upturning stochastic and macd can lead to a strong break to upside below is an example of SVL a silver stock 9.8 , the previous messy chart I posted.

Parvis here is a close up from iress trading platform. Sorry cant make it larger but you can see where macd and stochastic are all turning up along with bollinger breaking to upside. Just need some volume

A few hundred thousand shares at 9.8c can easy bring 20%-50% short term gains . Nice return for higher risk play

Edited July 10, 2010 by zorro1

[lannarebirth]

Hmmm, Thaivisa screwed up my post with a bunch of software code, so I'll reply later to nakachalet. Have to go.

Edited July 10, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Parvis]

Hmmm, Thaivisa screwed up my post with a bunch of software code, so I'll reply later to nakachalet. Have to go.

I didn't get my sharp "up with futures" on Friday - which for me could have been the first sign of a reversal - but per your chart I can see it could still happen on Monday (but I have my doubts per my charts).

[Abrak]

Now I did promise myself to add something value added to this thread. It is all fundamental stuff while I know most posters are technical but I am sure that even technical guys like to have a vague idea of the underlying valuations.

I have been meaning to look at this for a while because a lot of people are now saying that the S&P is beginning to look 'cheap'. Some people might think this is rather strange on the basis that several people were also claiming about 9 months ago that the S&P was the most expensive it has ever been.

This chart 'is a chart of the day' from the 21st August 2009

Cool isnt it?

Still a bit weird that the most expensive market in history can go up and now people are saying its cheap.

So given us fundamentalists tend to look at 'PEs', lets take a look at what is more realistically going on. First of all any one given years PE isnt going to tell you very much, so on a long term basis, I like to use a 10 year MVA of earnings. This sort of smooths out the dips and the peaks to a large extent and then you can plot a PE on that basis. That would be one hel_l of a lot of work but luckily Shiller does that for us.

Now this plots the PE on a 10 year MVA earnings basis going back to 1880 (which is in fact well before I was even born.)

The average PE I believe is 15.9x.

Now anyone can read anything into that chart they like but a few points to note....

1) Although the current PE of 19.76x is well above average, interest rates are very low, so in absolute value terms it may not really be expensive.

2) However, it does appear that after every major peak you usually get a chance to buy in at below 10x.

3) The current 10 year MVA of EPS is 54.7

So moving on to nearer term valuations. As you can imagine at the bottom of an economic cycle you may in fact have no earnings. Rather remarkably, with the bank shambles, EPS for 4Q 2008 was -23.2. So what Einstein did with his 'chart of the day' up above was to calculate an EPS after 2q 2009 results (which I estimate using S&P figures) at 7.5. Ok that doesnt give a PE of 150x but well over 100x (122x).

So where do we stand on 2010 earnings. Well based on 1Q results and the next months forecasts we are looking at EPS of 45.6 and a year end PE of 23x. (I could take operating earnings and get a PE as low as 14x but they are such a joke nowadays - a US$1000 bottle of wine is considered an exceptional item even if you have it everyday for lunch.)

Now an individual PE is bound to be higher than a pe of the 10 year MVA on average. 1997 to 2003 annual PEs were generally above this level but from but that did look a bit like bubble territory (Shiller chart.)

However, the EPS for 2011 is forecast at 60.9 placing the S&P on 17.2x PE. That would be low. The S&P has not traded on below 17x historic earnings since 1995. Mind you valuations have been very high since. Back in 1988 it was on 11.7x historic.

So, so far it is basically, the market isnt cheap for sure but it is not particularly expensive. However there are two things that basically keep me pretty cautious going forward.

1) I simply do not believe you are going to see 30% EPS growth 'next year' out of the S&P500. That is a judgment call along the lines that all these highly paid, highly educated, highly experienced, highly intelligent analysts, are basically wrong. I suspect if they happen to be right or possibly conservative the market will move higher.

2) I dont like the fund flows underlying US demographics. This sounds very 'voodoo' like but the stats especially from the Cowles Foundation are are unequivocal, such that the R squared correlation is 0.78. Essentially if you plot what they call an MY ratio (middle aged to young) then stockmarkets in terms of both valuation and trends in valuation are correlated. So MY peaked in the US in about 2001 and will start to bottom about 2020 during which valuations will likely fall.

BTW this last point might sound like to voodoo to some but so does half the technical analysis. I have only glanced at this report on the subject , but you might be very surprised what the demographics are actually saying - like buy Japan, for instance.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FpcjxjvR63IJ:https://www.clsa.com/assets/files/reports/CLSA_Reg_Quant_070807.pdf+r+squared+0.78+us+demographics+40+year+olds+PE+stockmarket&hl=en&gl=th&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiOUeHCFNLrgCJSqxfm21ZaLDwvgfFP8VWvikc_gwKh1Ncjffz_bMFMyB4wKsMdj9fMhCAp39bU2_Rb7WPPObBolXp9alBUP66cJfeAb1wCDuuEs8Aiocm7LN_dxkkpWHyzfxR4&sig=AHIEtbQcWWohwuHm7TfsgC74QUAlyehv7w

Edited July 10, 2010 by Abrak

[Parvis]

For those of you who also follow VIX - etc.

All 3 charts are of 9 days 5 min. Left is VIX - upper right is NYA - lower right is "Tick"

"Tick" at present show negative divergence.

7-09.TIF

Edited July 10, 2010 by Parvis

[badge]

'Derivatives' is far too vague a term; there are derivatives that simply mirror cash markets, and there are derivatives based on derivatives of derivatives of derivatives based on theories. To lump them all together with the same 'derivatives' term is a misnomer.

A Rose by any other name - is still a Rose.

Good to see you posting things again Parvis.

I note you havent broken your vow of empty ambiguity.

[ray23]

I trade with Asia plus ( SET) I have found the SMA chart the MACD and the volume. There is one other chart I have no idea what it is. It has straight lines bottom and top and within that a moving line.

Stocks seem to be stronger as the moving line is closer to the top and weaker when it's to wards the bottom. Anyone have guess what it is

[midas]

Here's a look at where the S & P is today: 31% below the peak

33 months ago, at about the same level it first hit 12 years ago

Edited July 10, 2010 by midas

[nakachalet]

Here's a look at where the S & P is today: 31% below the peak

33 months ago, at about the same level it first hit 12 years ago

taking your chart and explanation into consideration....

one should also consider the purchasing power of paper money 12 yr ago then.... and now the power of paper money differs significantly....

also 12 yr ago, the price of gold was around 295 usd per troy ounce.... in comparison to today's price of around 1,200 usd/oz....

which could be interpreted as having the purchasing power of only 25% of 12 yr ago.... sad isn't it?

you may interpolate however which way you prefer....

cheers and happy trading everyone....

Edited July 10, 2010 by nakachalet

[zorro1]

I trade with Asia plus ( SET) I have found the SMA chart the MACD and the volume. There is one other chart I have no idea what it is. It has straight lines bottom and top and within that a moving line.

Stocks seem to be stronger as the moving line is closer to the top and weaker when it's to wards the bottom. Anyone have guess what it is

Ray its a stochastic. Macd crossing and stochastic turning up near the bottom of the channel in very basic terms is usually an early indicator the stock may be about to head NOrth after seeing a bottom.

[lannarebirth]

This is what I'd say is wrong with the chart, for my use anyway. Your off chart studies take up more screen space than does the price chart.... Better IMO to use dissimilar inputs which if all give a buy signal, it proves more reliable. I can't get my screen capture gizmo to show my whole setup but I'll show you what I mean using some of the charts on my screen Very ST buy signal at 1515 yesterday using three different methodologies.

lannarebirth

an interesting combination of charts using different time frames.... to arrive at.... and to confirm.... a decision.

Well, in this particular case I had the SPX overhead gapfill to consider as well and the 60 min 200 ma both acting as magnets.

the one minute time frame is reputedly used exclusively by scalpers and daytraders and the likes....

were you per chance scalping or daytrading at that moment in time too?

It did start out as a daytrade but the target wasn't hit, so it's a 2 day trade. I have an array of 1,5,10,15,30,45,60 and 120 min chart information provided in a single chart by way of programming language. So, I don't just trade off a one minute chart. I generally know what is going on with the daily weekly and monthly as well.

the signal provider of your charts is one of the more expensive firms in the market. it costs around 120 usd (?) for REAL TIME monthly basic service just for signal services alone; as i recall.

most free quote service providers use DELAYED SIGNAL, which could be some 20 minutes delayed which means the quoted price posted on screen is in reality come and gone some 20 minutes ago....

I think its about $1400 year (cheaper by the year) including exchane feeds. I use Esignal rather than Tradestation, which would be free for me because it is Esignals programming language that my software is written in.

some thirty years ago, Financial News Network (anyone remembers sue, Yes, I think she added no value to the broadcasts I ever saw her in. bollinger I use his bands forreversals on things like VIX if it closes outside the band. and ron I hear Ron rose to his greatest level of incompetence and blew up a hedge fund. --the analysts?) provided free quotes (20 min delay) running at the bottom of its screen. many traders then.... used those running numbers to formulate their trades.... at the time only brokerage firms could afford to have a quote line.... we were asked to pay some 5,000 usd to just LEASE the ugly square box for a month....

hunt brothers were alive and well.... silver was around 4 usd and went it was cornered peaking around 9 usd/oz by the hunt brothers, jealous brokers and brokerage houses were becoming unglued... federal investigation and grand jury were summoned.... i still remembered buying gold eagle pieces at around 35.25 usd/oz and i was then paid 0.65 usd/per hour doing roofing under hot michigan summer sun....

well.... it did help finance my higher education.... most worked the whole summer vacation so they could save enough to go to school in the fall, winter and spring semesters.... those were the happiest days.... and a burger was only 25 cents then....

to bring everything up to date, sue (my idol ) is now with cnbc.... and bollinger is now a master of his own ship.... many of us including ZORRO1 are using his creation--the upper bollinger band to start selling the market and unloading the longs.... for some reasons, i do not come across ron often nowadays.... he could have branched out and owned his own company as well....

thx much everyone for putting up with my nostalgic ranting....

[nakachalet]

lannarebirth

from your charts arrangement, eleven different time interval charts for a commodity, it surely appear that you are a very very cautious trader indeed.... perhaps you also have a yearly chart too, to augment those eleven charts, rendering a continuum of price fluctuation.... enabling you to short or long more decisively and reassuringly.... bravo....

for what it is worth.... unless lannarebirth is left-handed, his charts arrangement ought to be in reversed of what he showed us.... for easier optic scan to arrive at a quicker decision to take advantage of earlier entry or exit position.... e.g. yearly, quarterly, monthly, daily, 60, 30, 15, 5, 1....

why couldn't you post your trading positions, not necessarily the trading results, more frequently for every one to enjoy.... debate.... and salivate after....

This is what I'd say is wrong with the chart, for my use anyway. Your off chart studies take up more screen space than does the price chart.... Better IMO to use dissimilar inputs which if all give a buy signal, it proves more reliable. I can't get my screen capture gizmo to show my whole setup but I'll show you what I mean using some of the charts on my screen Very ST buy signal at 1515 yesterday using three different methodologies.

lannarebirth

an interesting combination of charts using different time frames.... to arrive at.... and to confirm.... a decision.

Well, in this particular case I had the SPX overhead gapfill to consider as well and the 60 min 200 ma both acting as magnets.

the one minute time frame is reputedly used exclusively by scalpers and daytraders and the likes....

were you per chance scalping or daytrading at that moment in time too?

It did start out as a daytrade but the target wasn't hit, so it's a 2 day trade. I have an array of 1,5,10,15,30,45,60 and 120 min chart information provided in a single chart by way of programming language. So, I don't just trade off a one minute chart. I generally know what is going on with the daily weekly and monthly as well.

the signal provider of your charts is one of the more expensive firms in the market. it costs around 120 usd (?) for REAL TIME monthly basic service just for signal services alone; as i recall.

most free quote service providers use DELAYED SIGNAL, which could be some 20 minutes delayed which means the quoted price posted on screen is in reality come and gone some 20 minutes ago....

I think its about $1400 year (cheaper by the year) including exchane feeds. I use Esignal rather than Tradestation, which would be free for me because it is Esignals programming language that my software is written in.

some thirty years ago, Financial News Network (anyone remembers sue, Yes, I think she added no value to the broadcasts I ever saw her in. bollinger I use his bands forreversals on things like VIX if it closes outside the band. and ron I hear Ron rose to his greatest level of incompetence and blew up a hedge fund. --the analysts?) provided free quotes (20 min delay) running at the bottom of its screen. many traders then.... used those running numbers to formulate their trades.... at the time only brokerage firms could afford to have a quote line.... we were asked to pay some 5,000 usd to just LEASE the ugly square box for a month....

hunt brothers were alive and well.... silver was around 4 usd and went it was cornered peaking around 9 usd/oz by the hunt brothers, jealous brokers and brokerage houses were becoming unglued... federal investigation and grand jury were summoned.... i still remembered buying gold eagle pieces at around 35.25 usd/oz and i was then paid 0.65 usd/per hour doing roofing under hot michigan summer sun....

well.... it did help finance my higher education.... most worked the whole summer vacation so they could save enough to go to school in the fall, winter and spring semesters.... those were the happiest days.... and a burger was only 25 cents then....

to bring everything up to date, sue (my idol ) is now with cnbc.... and bollinger is now a master of his own ship.... many of us including ZORRO1 are using his creation--the upper bollinger band to start selling the market and unloading the longs.... for some reasons, i do not come across ron often nowadays.... he could have branched out and owned his own company as well....

thx much everyone for putting up with my nostalgic ranting....

Edited July 11, 2010 by nakachalet

[lannarebirth]

[lannarebirth

from your charts arrangement, eleven different time interval charts for a commodity, it surely appear that you are a very very cautious trader indeed.... perhaps you also have a yearly chart too, to augment those eleven charts, rendering a continuum of price fluctuation.... enabling you to short or long more decisively and reassuringly.... bravo....

I didn't say that.; I said I had information from many timeframes on one chart. Only one or a few timeframes will be relevant at any given time. It's all about tape reading in the end and;the software;is designed to make the trading as intuitive a process as possible.

for what it is worth.... unless lannarebirth is left-handed, his charts arrangement ought to be in reversed of what he showed us.... for easier optic scan to arrive at a quicker decision to take advantage of earlier entry or exit position.... e.g. yearly, quarterly, monthly, daily, 60, 30, 15, 5, 1....

You're picturing something I didn't describe. It is but a single chart.

why couldn't you post your trading positions, not necessarily the trading results, more frequently for every one to enjoy.... debate.... and salivate after....

A few reasons. One is that I don't think it would be helpful to anyone, Two, I doubt anyone is really that interested, Three, it's not anyone's business. And four I was raised to believe it was vulgar to talk about money or namedrop. I like talking about ideas though.

Edited July 11, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Parvis]

why couldn't you post your trading positions, not necessarily the trading results, more frequently for every one to enjoy.... debate.... and salivate after....

A few reasons. One is that I don't think it would be helpful to anyone, Two, I doubt anyone is really that interested, Three, it's not anyone's business. And four I was raised to believe it was vulgar to talk about money or namedrop. I like talking about ideas though.

I also do not like to talk about specific $ - but - I believe it would help to be able to relate what percentage gains you can achieve over what timeframe.

In my own occasional trading (average twice per month) - I hesitate to mention percentage since they appear to be so far different from what I hear/see is generally accepted as "good returns".

Off to a tangent - I find Vix charts very useful (I prefer Vxn) - however in default patterns it becomes difficult to relate directly to the Index charts since the are reversed to Index (up = Market moves down, Down = Market moves up). Therefore I have been working on "reversing Vxn chart" on my software - with success - I believe.

Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

Edited July 11, 2010 by Parvis

[badge]

[...]Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

Try, Value = -1, or, Invert

[ray23]

Thanks Zorro good to know.

[BlackJack]

charts to choke on

http://inflation.us/charts.html

[Parvis]

[...]Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

Try, Value = -1, or, Invert

Tx Badge - However I use a trading window rather than just charting software and was not able to do as you suggested.

[midas]

charts to choke on

http://inflation.us/charts.html

" These charts rarely get shown by the mainstream media "

What a conspiracy by the mainstream media not to tell

everyone what is really happening.

That is so funny

[badge]

[...]Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

Try, Value = -1, or, Invert

Tx Badge - However I use a trading window rather than just charting software and was not able to do as you suggested.

Presumably your 'trading window' uses some sort of software?

Its hard to offer any tidbits, if you dont mention what software your using? Although we can rule out both software and trading windows, for Bloomberg and CQG now.

[Parvis]

[...]Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

Try, Value = -1, or, Invert

Tx Badge - However I use a trading window rather than just charting software and was not able to do as you suggested.

Presumably your 'trading window' uses some sort of software?

Its hard to offer any tidbits, if you dont mention what software your using? Although we can rule out both software and trading windows, for Bloomberg and CQG now.

I use CyberTrader - directly connected to the Exchange.

I actually achieved what I was aiming for - but this limits me only to LineCharts (when "inverting" VIX chart) - and I would prefer to use BarCharts or CandlestickCharts which would identify "gaps" caused by future-related trading at opening. In all other application I have ofcourse the use of all types of charts.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Parvis

[Abrak]

I also do not like to talk about specific $ - but - I believe it would help to be able to relate what percentage gains you can achieve over what timeframe.

In my own occasional trading (average twice per month) - I hesitate to mention percentage since they appear to be so far different from what I hear/see is generally accepted as "good returns".

Off to a tangent - I find Vix charts very useful (I prefer Vxn) - however in default patterns it becomes difficult to relate directly to the Index charts since the are reversed to Index (up = Market moves down, Down = Market moves up). Therefore I have been working on "reversing Vxn chart" on my software - with success - I believe.

Question; Does anyone know how to reverse (upside down) Vix chart pattern in real time?

I think trades with returns over a given time frame, don't really tell you much of any revelance. For instance I can think of trades which could make you 30x your money within less than 5 minutes. They are not the sort of thing I am interested in but there you go.

Overall, I am an incredibly conservative investor who rarely loses money on my investments but rarely trebles my money in an investment over the course of a year.

[nakachalet]

you guys must be super intelligent to be able to trade profitably and consistently by using only charts provided by your broker....

most thais are also sitting in front of monitors provided by their brokerage firms.... and traded their hearts out.... day in and day out....

my own niece was also doing the same thing in one of the bangkok bank trading rooms....

until she saw the possibility of multiplicity of setups provided by professional signal feeders which cost some 120 usd per month....

since then.... she has been sitting in her own office trading commodities around the globe.... at her own pace and convenience....

i really admire you super intelligent folks being able to make trades from brokerage trading screens provided by your brokers....

[PCA]

you guys must be super intelligent to be able to trade profitably and consistently by using only charts provided by your broker....

most thais are also sitting in front of monitors provided by their brokerage firms.... and traded their hearts out.... day in and day out....

my own niece was also doing the same thing in one of the bangkok bank trading rooms....

until she saw the possibility of multiplicity of setups provided by professional signal feeders which cost some 120 usd per month....

since then.... she has been sitting in her own office trading commodities around the globe.... at her own pace and convenience....

i really admire you super intelligent folks being able to make trades from brokerage trading screens provided by your brokers....

care to elaborate what you are talking about?