Bangkok Airways Crash in Koh Samui

[buzz]

I would suspect Pilot Error has some blame in this - along with the obvious cause - severe wind sheer... I am former Air Traffic Controller ... That storm cell went thru Lamai just before the attempted landing - was a ripper - wind gusts must have been around 25~30kts at the time from the SWest... Pilots land based on the actual weather at the time - you can't tell me the Pilot did not see that storm cell approaching - thats what they always look for - he would've known where it was, by just looking out the window - they are highly visible and from that height.

The Pilot should of had 'missed approach - go around' in the back of his mind given the actual conditions. But, the airlines are under a lot of pressure these days in regards costs and missed approaches do cost money. They definitely try to get 'in' as quickly as possible. I feel it was probably a similar story to the crashes at Phuket and Suratthani. Pilots pushed the 'envelope' too far and were just reluctant to do a missed approach procedure (which aren't the nicest for passengers on board).

I've had one of the worst landings of my life at Samui from Utapao - actual wind fairly calm. But have suspected many times due to the rough landings on flights from Utapao (and probably Krabi) that they use these flights for pilot training. So that could possibly be a factor as well.

Perhaps we should wait for the investigation to be completed before making allegations......I am sure a former ATC would understand that

Just giving my opinion on what may have happened from my experience in the industry that's all, before the official investigation ... yes, there will be an official investigation - but hey, this is Thailand - and there are ways of not revealing ALL the info for the benefit of a few influential people.

[Chua]

Those with very good eyes will find a link on the BKK Air website (on top) about the accident.

I tried to post the link, but it seems I'm not allowed to do....

http://www.bangkokair.com/announcement/accident-usm.php

P.S. Sorry for all people who are affected by this accident.

Works for me. For those who can't see it for some reason, here's what Bangkok Air's website states as of 6:15pm on 4 August 2009

(it's also linked from their homepage):

PR2009/045

Bangkok Airways holds press conference over Samui accident

Bangkok Airways’ Head Office/ August 4th, 2009 – At 17.00 hrs, Captain Puttipong Prasarttong-Osoth, the President of Bangkok Airways, held a press conference about the accident of the airline’s flight PG 266 from Krabi skidding off the runway and collided with the former control tower during the flight’s captain attempted to land at Samui Airport.

The flight, operated by ATR-72 500 series MSN670 with 70 seats, carried 68 passengers, two pilots and two flight attendants. All passengers have been evacuated from the site with four seriously injured passengers sent to the Bangkok Samui Hospital, and two others with minor injuries delivered to the Thai Inter Hospital. The 62 other passengers have been transferred to hotel. Two flight attendants and a pilot were reportedly safe, while the other pilot was dead.

Currently, the airline has dispatched the investigation team from the Department of Aviation to the accident site at Samui Airport.

The airline’s insurance company - Bangkok Insurance, will cover full liability caused by this accident.

For more information, please contact the Emergency Call Center +66 2265 8777

[Andy76]

Source from BBC.CO.UK at 11:07 GMT, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 12:07 UK

The pilot of a Thai plane has been killed and seven passengers injured as it skidded off the runway while landing on the tourist island of Koh Samui.

The Bangkok Airways flight, carrying 72 people, hit an old and unmanned control tower amid reports of heavy rain.

The plane had taken off from the southern Thai town of Krabi, another popular tourist destination.

Officials said many of the injured were tourists. Hospital sources told the BBC four Britons may be among those hurt.

Map of plane's route

The nationalities of the others were not immediately known, but none were said to be seriously hurt.

Bad weather

The plane hit an old control tower

"Sadly we have learnt that the pilot of the aircraft has died," said Kannikar Kemavuthanon, the director general of the Department of Civil Aviation.

Ms Kanikka said the Bangkok Airways Flight PG266 was an ATR-72 twin-turboprop with 68 passengers, two pilots and two crew members on board.

"The weather was very bad during landing with heavy rain and wind," she said.

The plane hit a building that had once been used as an air traffic control tower, but is now part of a fire-fighting station, a local police official said.

"The heavy damage was at the front of the plane where the pilot was. It looks like he suffered from the impact," police Maj Col Sayan Sartsri told AP news agency.

The crash happened at around 1415 local time (0815 GMT).

Local reports said some of the injured passengers suffered broken legs. The wounded were taken to various hospitals on the island.

The resort island of Koh Samui lies some 300 miles (480km) south of Bangkok.

The airport runway was closed after the accident and at least one Thai Airways flight was cancelled.

[tw25rw]

For the record, it's not a jet (see photos).

All the news agencies had to do was Google ATR 72.

For the record it was. It's a turboprop. It has gas turbine engines.

It's just that the blades (propellors are visible).

As stated several times, and backed up by any reliable source in aviation, that does not make it a jet, it makes it a turboprop.

Just as a piston engine does not make it an automobile.

Oh, and it's NOT a gas turbine (Look it up first before posting)

You are correct. The turbine spins the propeller, but the exhaust contributes little if anything to the thrust. Many, maybe most, helicopters are powered by turbines as well as some boats, but they aren't jets either.

[Publicus]

Pilot killed in Thai plane crash

The plane was landing in heavy rain and high winds

The pilot of a Thai plane has been killed and 10 passengers injured as it skidded off the runway while landing on the tourist island of Koh Samui.

The Bangkok Airways flight, carrying 72 people, hit an old and unmanned control tower amid reports of heavy rain.

The plane had taken off from the southern Thai town of Krabi, another resort popular with tourists.

Officials said many of the injured were tourists. Hospital sources told the BBC four Britons may be among those hurt.

The nationalities of the others were not immediately known, but none were said to be seriously hurt.

Map of plane's route

"Sadly we have learnt that the pilot of the aircraft has died and so far 10 passengers are confirmed wounded," said Kannikar Kemavuthanon, the director general of the Department of Civil Aviation.

Ms Kanikka said the ATR72 twin-turboprop had 68 passengers, two pilots and two crew members on board.

"The weather was very bad during landing with heavy rain and wind," she said.

The plane hit a building that had once been used as an air traffic control tower, but is now part of a fire-fighting station, a local police official said.

"The heavy damage was at the front of the plane where the pilot was. It looks like he suffered from the impact," police Maj Col Sayan Sartsri told AP news agency.

The crash happened at around 1400 local time (0800 GMT).

Local reports said some of the injured passengers suffered broken legs.

The resort island of Koh Samui lies some 300 miles (480km) south of Bangkok.

The airport runway was closed after the accident and at least one Thai Airways flight was cancelled.

-- BBC 2009-08-04

Yep, a good old fashioned news story from the classic BBC. Straight facts and as many of them as possible. Frequently presented direct quotes. Rapid fire presentation. No embellishments, no opinions, no prejudgements. Straight stuff. Stay tuned for more of the same.

My heart goes out to the passengers and crew of the plane and gratitude to the rescue personnel and to the hustling medical professionals. And as a journalist I also appreciate a good old fashioned and straightforward objective presentation of the news.

Conversely, the Nation newspaper describing the flight as the "doomed" flight is reprehensible. To the passengers, families, relatives friends etc it can only magnify the pain.

[zzaa09]

Talking to a bloke the other day in the air safety line of work. Reckoned the only safe airline in Thailand today was Bangkok Airways. Accidents do happen.

Yes they do. Chances are they will happen more frequently on runways that aren't built to accomodate excess rain water.....

[dvdman]

BANGKOK (AP) -- A plane skidded off the runway and crashed into an air traffic control tower after landing on the Thai resort island of Samui on Tuesday, killing the chief pilot and injuring 34 people on board, an official said.

The co-pilot and six others were severely injured after the Bangkok Airways flight landed in stormy weather and hit the airport's old tower, said Kanikka Kemawutanond, director-general of the Department of Civil Aviation.

''The heavy damage was at the front of the plane where the pilot was. It looks like he suffered from the impact,'' police Maj. Col. Sayan Sartsri said.

''The co-pilot is still stuck and we are still trying to evacuate him from the plane,'' Kannikka said. All others aboard were evacuated and the injured sent to five hospitals in Samui, she said. Except for the seven, the others sustained minor injuries.

The nationalities of those on board were not immediately known.

Samui, located 298 miles (480 kilometers) south of Bangkok, is an island in the Gulf of Thailand popular with foreign tourists.

Kanikka said the ATR72-500 twin-turboprop had 68 passengers, two pilots and two crew members on board and was flying from Krabi, another popular resort area in southern Thailand.

''Initial reports indicated that the weather was bad with heavy rain and wind. We do not know what the pilot did or did not do that led to the incident at this point and I would rather not speculate,'' she said.

Kanikka said the Samui airport runway was closed after the accident and at least one Thai Airways flight was canceled.

In 1990, a Bangkok Airways turboprop crashed into a coconut grove short of the airport during heavy rain, killing all 37 people on board.

The French-Italian manufactured ATR72 has been involved in a number of incidents in recent years.

One in South Korea skidded off the runway while landing at the resort island of Jeju in 2006, injuring six people. Two years earlier, an ATR72 of Thai Airways had to make an emergency evacuation of passengers when its front landing gear collapsed during a landing in northern Thailand.

A Cambodian airliner slipped off a runway and got stuck in the mud near the ancient temples of Angkor in 2001. And in 1994, a Chicago-bound American Eagle ATR-72 crashed in northern Indiana, killing all 68 people aboard.

[FarangFlyer]

Today's Bangkok Airways Flight 266 that skid and crashed into the Samui Airport Tower is not new for this aircraft.

A couple of posters stated this aircraft French made ATR 72-500 is safe. Actually it is plagued by a history of problems.

American Eagle and Delta Airlines grounded their whole fleet after a few problems and then removed all of them permanently from service in any temperate climate routes.

The ATR 72-500 has a history of failure and accidents related to:

-Fuel Exhaustion and accidents caused by malfunctioning fuel indicators

-Engine and component icing problems even in areas with warmer climates. (icing more a condition of humidity and altitude than just location.)

Firstly, my thoughts go out to the family of the Captain who lost his life today in this accident.

A few clarifications as reading this post as follows (in no particular order):

The ATR-72 is a French built turbo-prop aircraft. Bangkok Airways operate this aircraft, and also the A319 & Md80s into Samui.

Bangkok Airways are the owner/operator of Samui Airport, and no other Air Operators in Thailand fly to Samui. Thai Air, and a few others sell tickets for this flights through a code sharing agreement with Bangok Airways. Bangkok Airways restrict competition on this route by charging substantially for any other airlines who wish to land at their airport and therefore make it an un-profitable route for other carriers.

There is no re-fuelling facilities at Samui, and therefore aircraft carry round-trip fuel on this route (enough for A-B, B-A (or C) plus fuel for diversion). So if required, the aircraft would have had more than enough fuel to divert to a number of other airports.

I am not sure of the category of weather station at Samui, but expect that it would be failry low category, and more than likely, the control tower would be the best source of weather information for the pilots.

The control tower at Samui is fairly basic, with no radar, due to the low number of daily flights into the airport, and also since most approaches flown there are in visual flight conditions (VMC).

The ATR 72 has had a number of problems as mentioned already. The fuel problem was caused by indicators that could be (physically) fitted to the ATR42 or 72, but will only function correctly when fitted to the appropriate aircraft.

Icing has been a problem in this aircraft, but having flown most of this week in that area, there has been little icing around at the typical altitudes that the ATR72 operates.

The ATR 42 is equipped with weather radar which detects precipitation. Dense areas of precipitation are highlighted in red/magenta and normally indicate the presence of Towering cumulus clouds or Cumulanimbus (CBs) clouds. The latter should be avoided by all aircraft, due to the severe turbulence/wind-shear associated with them.

Approaches are not normally carried out (nor take offs performed) if CBs and/or Thunderstorms are present in the vicinity of the aerodrome. This principle was established a number of years ago after a DC10 in the USA crashed short of landing due to severe windshear associated with a thunderstorm. The normal practice is to wait until the weather clears before attempting take off or landing. However, I have observed in Thailand aircraft arriving and departing during thunderstorm activity.

The flight computer on-board the ATR will give instantaneous wind read outs at the actual aircrafts altitude. By monotoring this during the approach the crew can establish the likelihood of windshear presence.

If an approach is flown into deteriorating weather/turbulent/wind conditions, it can be terminated by the pilot at any point, and a missed approach flown. Even on touchdown, a safe go-around manouvre can be executed.

The ATR 72 is equipped with reverse pitch (Beta mode) which can be used to slow the aircraft on landing. Failure of one (left/right) can result in severe difficulty maintaining directional control.

Wheel brakes provide the most efficient stopping power to most aircraft. Failure of one side (left/right) can result in severe difficulty in maintaining directional control.

If heavy rain was present at the time of the accident, resulting in a wet runway, again, directional control can be difficult if aquaplaning occurs (similar to that which may be experienced in your car on a wet road).

As regards commercial pressures, all pilots are taught that safety comes first, therefore if deemed unsafe to land at an airport, the majority of pilots will divert (or hold until weather clears).

From the distant photo, it looks as though the aircraft has landed in bad weather, on a wet runway, and possibly a strong gust of (cross) wind has caused the aircraft to start to deviate from the runway centreline, and it may not have been possible to regain the runway due to aquaplaning. As this happens, the Captain will decide instantly wether to keep the aircraft on the ground, or to attemp a go-around. If the aircraft is not straight at the time, a go-around will be the less likely choice. I expect that the flight crew did not have an accurate picture of the surface weather conditions at Samui at the time of their landing.

Hope this helps clear up some of your queries.

[buzz]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

[Rooo]

Talking to a bloke the other day in the air safety line of work. Reckoned the only safe airline in Thailand today was Bangkok Airways. Accidents do happen.

Yes they do. Chances are they will happen more frequently on runways that aren't built to accomodate excess rain water.....

I'm glad you are up to date with Samui airport. Please get facts right before posting.

[Stuart8]

Here is the weather report about 30 minutes before the accident (I believe it was at 1430 local):

VTSM 040700Z 29015KT 9000 FEW020TCU SCT120 BKN300 31/25 Q1007 A2974 TCU-NW

These are classic conditions to produce a 'microburst'. This is a condition you get at the edge of cumulo nimbus clouds which are practised in the simulator. Unfortunately even when you are expecting a microburst in the simulator it is often very difficult to avoid 'crashing' the simulator. These are very localised and violent windshear conditions. Initially you get a strong increased headwind on the approach followed by a very sudden tailwind. To avoid crashing you need to increase the airspeed up to the flap limiting speed initially before the sudden tailwind reduces your airspeed very suddenly (windshear).

If the pilot is able to control the plane down to the runway it could result in a heavy landing. He clearly has lost directional control aswell to come off the side of the runway.

Why did the pilot continue the approach? Well, he is reliant on the aircraft ahead of him advising on the conditons he has on his approach. Unfortunately microbursts occur very quickly and can catch the pilot out with the preceding aircraft not experiencing a problem. Weather radar will inform you of rain ahead but not of downdraughts or updraughts.

I have been in to Koh Samui as a passenger on a Bangkok Airways ATR72. The crew initially diverted to Phuket at the time because of these kind of conditions prevailing at Koh Samui at the time. Being aircrew myself (Dragonair) I spoke to the crew on the ground at Phuket and was perfectly happy with their procedures. They seemed to be a safe airline to me.

[george]

1 confirmed death in Bangkok Airways crash

KOH SAMUI: -- A Bangkok Airways plane skidded off the runway and crashed at Samui airport on Tuesday afternoon, killing a pilot and injuring six other people.

Flight PG 266 crashed in severe weather on arriving at the resort island in Surat Thani about 2pm from Krabi province.

The plane reportedly skidded off the runway and collided with an old control tower as the captain attemped to land at Samui airport.

President of Bangkok Airways Capt Puttipong Prasarttong-Osoth said at a press conference at 5pm that the ATR-72 500 series with 70 seats carried 68 passengers, two pilots and two flight attendants.

All of the passengers were foreigners from countries including Italy, the United Kingdom, Spain, Germany, Switzerland and Israel.

The accident killed the pilot and injured six people, four of them seriously. Those in critical condition were taken to Bangkok Samui Hospital. Two others with minor injuries were delivered to the Thai Inter Hospital, he said. The other passengers were taken to their hotels.

Capt Puttipong did not pinpoint the cause of the crash. The airline has taken an investigation team from the Department of Aviation to the accident site at Samui airport.

He said the dead pilot, Pilot Officer Chartchai Pansuwan, was very experienced. He had worked for the company for 19 years, and had flown this model aircraft for 14 years.

After the crash, Thai Airways International cancelled two flights to Samui, TG 287 and TG 288, leaving more than 200 passengers stranded at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Samui airport was closed after the accident.

Initial reportson local television stations said up to 10 people had died in the crash, but the figure was rapidly reduced during the afternoon.

For information on the names of passengers on board the flight and their condition, call Bangkok Airways Hotline at 02-265-8777 or 1771.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-04

[zzaa09]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

Certainly, there would be better conditions in which to 'train'? Strong winds and heavy rain....

[ManInSurat]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

I do see where you're coming from and yeah you're right, we can only offer conjecture with very limited facts and will never know the truth no doubt. I'm just astonished that in similar circumstances around the world when things would appear to be going out of control that the master controls would be left in the hands of someone so inexperienced. As you said though, all conditions. I see where you're coming from.

One thing all the TV reports do appear to be showing in their reconstructions of the accident is that the plane veered off the runway after landing. Surely this would be an issue with water on the tarmac no?

Can a wind shear affect a craft after is has landed? Only going on what I have seen on Thai TV.

Looks very very reminiscent of the Phuket crash this.

Edited August 4, 2009 by ManInSurat

[buzz]

I do see where you're coming from and yeah you're right, we can only offer conjecture with very limited facts and will never know the truth no doubt. I'm just astonished that in similar circumstances around the world when things would appear to be going out of control that the master controls would be left in the hands of someone so inexperienced. As you said though, all conditions. I see where you're coming from.

The command of the aircraft is ALWAYS under the control of the senior Pilot.

new Pilots have to be trained in all conditions for all the airports they will be landing at. Simple stuff really. Anyway, it is not revealed that any training was involved at this stage. I just mentioned it as a possibility.

[samuijack]

have just heard there has been some sort of incident at Samui airport. Plane off the runway or something.

anyone nearby see or heard anything ?

I witnessed this tragic accident and was listning on my airband radio.

Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building. This area which is concrete and set back from the runway, was a few years ago where the passengers would alight to be taken to the terminal by tram style busses.

As the plane was full and the pilot would have retracted the flaps at this stage, he would have maximum braking effiency and I can not imagine the the presence on water on the runway would cause such a dramatic turn to the left.

The normal procedue is to taxi to the end of the runway and backtrack to the terminal, as there is no taxiway.

If this had happened further down the runway, it would have ended up in a big drainage ditch, maybe causing more fatalities.

[gentman]

For the record, it's not a jet (see photos).

All the news agencies had to do was Google ATR 72.

Maswings, a subsidiary of Malaysia Airlines is replacing all its aged Fokker50 to that of ATR-72, the one that we see now. I believe this is a modern twin-turboprop aircraft that can take 70 passengers.

[Chua]

From http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1016751 (Thai-Asean Network):

Bangkok Airways Plane Skids off Runway in Samui

UPDATE : 4 August 2009

A Bangkok Airways plane crashed as it landed at Samui airport, most likely due to poor visibility. The pilot died immediately.

Due to heavy rain and poor visibility, the Bangkok Airways flight PG 266 from Krabi to Samui veared off the runway on the left and crashed into the old Samui air traffic control tower, which is not in use and is now used to store fire trucks for the airport.

The Samui Airport continues to be closed temporarily until all debris from the crash is cleared from the runway. The airport is privately owned and operated by Bangkok Airways itself but the go-ahead on the opening of the airport will be given by the Civil Aviation Department.

34 Bangkok Airways and two Thai Airways flight land and take off from the Samui Airport daily.

All stranded passengers will be transported to the Surat Thani Airport on the mainland via the ferry from Samui. Aircrafts bound for Samui will also be rerouted to the Surat Thani Airport.

68 passengers and 3 crew members on board managed to escape to safety. Four passengers, two Britons, one Swiss and one Italian, are seriously injured. The most serious injury is broken legs. Two Britons suffered slight injuries. Injured passengers have been sent to the Bangkok Samui Hospital for medical attention.

Officials have confirmed that the pilot Chartchai Tangsawad died in the crash. The pilot had been employed by Bangkok Airways for 19 years and had flown this type of aircraft for 15 years since 1995. The co-pilot is injured with broken legs while the two crew members sustained slight injuries.

Most of the 68 passengers are tourists from Italy, England, Israel, France and Germany. The airline has dispensed help to all passengers.

The aircraft in question is an ATR-72 that seats 75 passengers.

Bangkok Airways held a press conference on this accident at its headquarters in Bangkok at 5 pm by the company's executive Puthipong Prasartthong-osot. Bangkok Airways said the aircraft has been in used since July 2000. Investigations are underway to determine the cause of the accident and the airline has promised full cooperation to the authorities.

Those who want to seek more information can call Bangkok Airway's emergency center at 02-265-8777.

[dman961]

The pilot of a Thai plane has been killed and seven passengers injured as it skidded off the runway while landing on the tourist island of Koh Samui. The Bangkok Airways flight, carrying 72 people, hit an old and unmanned control tower amid reports of heavy rain.

The plane had taken off from the southern Thai town of Krabi, another popular tourist destination.

Officials said many of the injured were tourists. Hospital sources told the BBC four Britons may be among those hurt.

The nose of the plane looks to have taken the worst of the damaged... ouch! RIP captian!

Edited August 4, 2009 by dman961

[Stuart8]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

I do see where you're coming from and yeah you're right, we can only offer conjecture with very limited facts and will never know the truth no doubt. I'm just astonished that in similar circumstances around the world when things would appear to be going out of control that the master controls would be left in the hands of someone so inexperienced. As you said though, all conditions. I see where you're coming from.

One thing all the TV reports do appear to be showing in their reconstructions of the accident is that the plane veered off the runway after landing. Surely this would be an issue with water on the tarmac no?

Can a wind shear affect a craft after is has landed? Only going on what I have seen on Thai TV.

Looks very very reminiscent of the Phuket crash this.

There appears to be a lot of uninformed conjecture on this thread. Speculation is fine but there are comments of opinion being stated as apparent fact.

The captain will fly the approach if conditons are expected to be difficult. For example the old Kai Tak approach in Hong Kong was captains only for many airlines. Not for Dragonair though where pilots often flew two appraoches a day and were very familiar with it. Similarly if the weather conditions are considered marginal for the approach the captain will fly the approach. In this case the conditions seemed to have caught the crew out - otherwise they would have gone around, waited for an improvement or diverted to Phuket. The passengers safety is always top priority.

By the way there are no 'master controls'. The aircraft have dual indentical controls.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Stuart8

[george]

Samui Airport remains closed

KOH SAMUI: -- Samui Airport will remain closed pending the investigation into the crash of Bangkok Airways flight on Tuesday which killed the captain of the aircraft.

Bangkok Airways President Capt Puttipong Prasarttong-Osoth President said the Civil Aviation Department will decide when the airport and the flights would be resumed.

He was speaking after a PG flight from Krabi which was touching down the airport slid off the runway and plunged into an old flight control tower at about 2.30pm on Tuesday.

The airport was closed at 3pm after the accident.

Captain of the flight Chartchai Pansuwan was killed at the scene while other passengers were injured. The flight was carrying 68 passengers and four crew members.

Puttipong said that most of the passengers were foreigners from Italy, France, United Kingdom, Spain, Germany and Switzerland.

He failed to give further details on the passengers.

As the airport service was suspended, the remaining passengers will use Surat Thani Airport, he said, they will be ferried to Surat Thani to get the flgiths to their destinations.

-- The Nation 2009-08-04

[animatic]

I would suspect Pilot Error has some blame in this - along with the obvious cause - severe wind sheer... I am former Air Traffic Controller ... That storm cell went thru Lamai just before the attempted landing - was a ripper - wind gusts must have been around 25~30kts at the time from the SWest... Pilots land based on the actual weather at the time - you can't tell me the Pilot did not see that storm cell approaching - thats what they always look for - he would've known where it was, by just looking out the window - they are highly visible and from that height.

The Pilot should of had 'missed approach - go around' in the back of his mind given the actual conditions. But, the airlines are under a lot of pressure these days in regards costs and missed approaches do cost money. They definitely try to get 'in' as quickly as possible. I feel it was probably a similar story to the crashes at Phuket and Suratthani. Pilots pushed the 'envelope' too far and were just reluctant to do a missed approach procedure (which aren't the nicest for passengers on board).

I've had one of the worst landings of my life at Samui from Utapao - actual wind fairly calm. But have suspected many times due to the rough landings on flights from Utapao (and probably Krabi) that they use these flights for pilot training. So that could possibly be a factor as well.

I was not far off on the bike and I estimate higher winds 40-50MPH gusts in Chaweng.

I have been in two full hurricanes and a several gales, this was gale force winds.

I was on a big bike and was being blown sideways enough to STOP RIDING....

A report said the pilot was told by the tower of 'volatile winds',

And the satorm cell was obvious on the ground, but he didn't pass on landing.

I suspect pressure applied to pilots to keep on schedule in tough economic times

is as much to blame as weather. Guess no one learned from Phuket...

A shame all in all, but thankfully less lose of life and injuries than COULD have happened.

And VERY much thank god for no fire.

Who thought placing ALL firefighting apparatus in one place,

right on the flight line was a good acceptable idea???

RIP Khun Chartchai.

Edited August 4, 2009 by animatic

[reallyok]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

WOW! I am quite distressed to learn that senior pilots actually train junior pilots to land in potentially dangerous conditions whilst they have got a cabin full of unsuspecting passengers.

I don't know about the rest but really don't think that QANTAS would allow such training exercises.

[Stuart8]

I witnessed this tragic accident and was listning on my airband radio.

Two airbus aircraft took off on runway 35 in short succession, at the same time as the ATR72 reported downwind for runway 35 and asked for a wind check. The tower informed him the wind as 300/15kts. The pilot reported turning base and was given the wind as 290/18kts and cleared to land. At this time it began to rain heavily and I was interested to see the landing. The pilot seemed to make a textbook landing and continued down the centerline of the runway ,slowing down, to a point apposite the terminal building (maybe 500 meters) when it seemed he applied the brakes and the plane turned 90 degrees left (as if the right hand brakes failed) colliding head on into the old tower building. This area which is concrete and set back from the runway, was a few years ago where the passengers would alight to be taken to the terminal by tram style busses.

As the plane was full and the pilot would have retracted the flaps at this stage, he would have maximum braking effiency and I can not imagine the the presence on water on the runway would cause such a dramatic turn to the left.

The normal procedue is to taxi to the end of the runway and backtrack to the terminal, as there is no taxiway.

If this had happened further down the runway, it would have ended up in a big drainage ditch, maybe causing more fatalities.

A very useful account of the accident. It would seem the right wheel skidded and the left gripped when the pilot braked. It can be easy to brake too heavily when you feel the aircraft has slowed down sufficiently, only to find it skids on the runway. Normally it doesn't result in this kind of incident though.

The pilot may have been trying to avoid a back track and was trying to turn off the runway and braked too heavily for the conditions.

By the way the pilot normally only retracts the flaps after clearing the runway, although he may do it on a back track while on this runway with the parking apron being so close at Koh Samui.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Stuart8

[Stuart8]

WOW! I am quite distressed to learn that senior pilots actually train junior pilots to land in potentially dangerous conditions whilst they have got a cabin full of unsuspecting passengers.

I don't know about the rest but really don't think that QANTAS would allow such training exercises.

See my post at the top of this page.

[reallyok]

I do see where you're coming from and yeah you're right, we can only offer conjecture with very limited facts and will never know the truth no doubt. I'm just astonished that in similar circumstances around the world when things would appear to be going out of control that the master controls would be left in the hands of someone so inexperienced. As you said though, all conditions. I see where you're coming from.

The command of the aircraft is ALWAYS under the control of the senior Pilot.

new Pilots have to be trained in all conditions for all the airports they will be landing at. Simple stuff really. Anyway, it is not revealed that any training was involved at this stage. I just mentioned it as a possibility.

Why not ask Stuart8 his feelings on this one seeing as he is aircrew with Dragonair ???

I am still a little worried as i thought it was safer to fly to Samui rather than take the VIP Coach !

[Mr Red]

...as of my knowledge all flights are canceled... till further notice!

We fly out tomorrow -- BKK to Samui at 1200. Was able to check in by web and select seats, so likely they will fly. Heard from Channel 3 that Bangkok Air is putting on special flight at 9am for those cancelled today. Will let you know if I hear further.

[reallyok]

Interesting, but in response to your last statement, the deceased captain had just under 20 years experience with the airline and I find it hard to believe he would have entrusted the aircraft to a more junior officer in the interest of pilot training.

Mate, Senior Pilots have to train new Pilots under ALL conditions - otherwise how do they learn ? A Pilot of 20 years would be considered very much as Senior, and as such, could have possibly been training a new Pilot.

I am NOT saying that is definitely the case here, but, a possibility.

I do see where you're coming from and yeah you're right, we can only offer conjecture with very limited facts and will never know the truth no doubt. I'm just astonished that in similar circumstances around the world when things would appear to be going out of control that the master controls would be left in the hands of someone so inexperienced. As you said though, all conditions. I see where you're coming from.

One thing all the TV reports do appear to be showing in their reconstructions of the accident is that the plane veered off the runway after landing. Surely this would be an issue with water on the tarmac no?

Can a wind shear affect a craft after is has landed? Only going on what I have seen on Thai TV.

Looks very very reminiscent of the Phuket crash this.

There appears to be a lot of uninformed conjecture on this thread. Speculation is fine but there are comments of opinion being stated as apparent fact.

The captain will fly the approach if conditons are expected to be difficult. For example the old Kai Tak approach in Hong Kong was captains only for many airlines. Not for Dragonair though where pilots often flew two appraoches a day and were very familiar with it. Similarly if the weather conditions are considered marginal for the approach the captain will fly the approach. In this case the conditions seemed to have caught the crew out - otherwise they would have gone around, waited for an improvement or diverted to Phuket. The passengers safety is always top priority.

By the way there are no 'master controls'. The aircraft have dual indentical controls.

Yes Stuart8 i understand your post. But surely there is a difference between "Training" and "Experiencing" . I would have thought that the 2nd pilot would have to be fully trained before he got his licence to fly passenger planes, and then he gets the experience, often flying smaller aircraft etc.

Only guesswork on my behalf, but i am thinking of taking the train the next time. lolololol

[Stuart8]

I am still a little worried as i thought it was safer to fly to Samui rather than take the VIP Coach !

A passenger aircraft crashes anywhere in the world and we all hear about it. How many coach crashes, or car crashes, are there that we never hear about?

I am now in the UK but I heard about this crash. It is even on the BBC news. I wouldn't expect to hear if your VIP coach crashed though!

[barry]

its funny but everytime i fly i still feel

once the plane touches down like i've survived the flight.

but there have been too many runway crashes in the past 5 years

and this changes everything