Count The Five Tones Out On Your Fingers

[Sir_Sanuk]

Ask any Thai person what tone a word is and the chances are you will be met with a blank look.

However, if you persist they will usually then imagine that they are back in school and count out the five tones on their fingers until they find the right word.

I'm just curious if anyone knows the exact order that Thai children are taught the tones using their fingers?

I've already learnt the tone rules depending on how words are spelt in Thai, but I'm thinking that an easy way to quickly recall the tone of a word would be if I could lock down each tone to a number/finger from 1 - 5.

Then, every time I learn a new word I can make a picture/story association in my head between the word and its corresponding tone number.

Thanks for any info! Cheers.

[sigeena]

The order as in

0. Siang Sa-Maan เสียงสามัญ Mid tone

1. Siang Aek เสียงเอก Low tone

2. Siang Toh เสียงโท Falling tone

3. Siang Drii เสียงตรี High tone

4. Siang Jat-Ta-Waa เสียงจัตวา Rising tone

[Sir_Sanuk]

The order as in

0. Siang Sa-Maan เสียงสามัญ Mid tone

1. Siang Aek เสียงเอก Low tone

2. Siang Toh เสียงโท Falling tone

3. Siang Drii เสียงตรี High tone

4. Siang Jat-Ta-Waa เสียงจัตวา Rising tone

Thanks a lot.. I just asked a Thai friend and she confirmed this order. To clarify:

0. Siang Sa-Maan เสียงสามัญ Mid tone - THUMB

1. Siang Aek เสียงเอก Low tone - FIRST FINGER

2. Siang Toh เสียงโท Falling tone - MIDDLE FINGER

3. Siang Drii เสียงตรี High tone - FOURTH FINGER

4. Siang Jat-Ta-Waa เสียงจัตวา Rising tone - LITTLE FINGER

She also said that only words beginning with a middle class consonant can be said in all five tones.

[desi]

'they will usually then imagine that they are back in school and count out the five tones on their fingers until they find the right word.'

...can you please clarify?

[dippytart]

LOL! This happened to me today. I was trying to get the tone right between เมือง and เหมือง(ทอง) - [see the cartoon thread] - and a Thai friend I asked did exactly this with their fingers and the tones (after boring the poor fella silly, I still couldn't clearly enunciate the difference between these two to the satisfaction of a Thai ear)

Edited August 14, 2009 by dippytart

[Sir_Sanuk]

'they will usually then imagine that they are back in school and count out the five tones on their fingers until they find the right word.'

...can you please clarify?

hmm.. i'm not sure how i can clarify it any more than i have already... take for example the word เก้า GAO (number 9) - Falling tone. If I asked a thai person what tone this word is they might say it out loud in each tone while counting on their fingers as follows:

เกา (Mid tone - Thumb)

เก่า (Low tone - Second finger)

เก้า (Falling tone - Third finger)

เก๊า (High tone - fourth finger)

เก๋า (Rising tone - little finger)

So..... to clarify my memory association idea. Say for example I was learning the word รถ (ROT), which means car. I could think in my head of a car having FOUR wheels. The number four relates to the FOURTH finger and therefore I know that it is pronounced with the high tone.

Obviously this only works with one syllable words and I have no intention of trying to use this for every new word I learn, but I'm thinking it could be a useful trick every now and then when there is a clear story/image associaton.

I guess it depends what kind of learner you are...

[desi]

Obviously this only works with one syllable words and I have no intention of trying to use this for every new word I learn, but I'm thinking it could be a useful trick every now and then when there is a clear story/image associaton.

I guess it depends what kind of learner you are...

It's a good idea... association would work with this method... (but you'd have to have a lot of time on your hands)

But what I meant was... when they teach the tone order in Thai schools, what do they teach along with what order they go in? What little tricks?

For instance, when they teach reading, they say the letters individually, then the word all together.

And when we learned the alphabet, we started out by singing the alphabet song. The Thais have their version too (sort of).

I guess I was just going for more detail as I'm interested in Thai teaching methods.

I'll bug my teacher about it tomorrow to see if she remembers...

[zzdocxx]

Can someone please post a video of this?

Thanks.

[Sir_Sanuk]

@ Desi,

Yeah I'm not sure exactly when/how it is used.. my workmates told me that when they were learning Thai at a very young age, the teacher would give them a long list of example 5 words (one in each tone) that they would read aloud and as they moved through each word they would keep 'counting' on their fingers. So much so that the finger counting action is now embedded into their minds whenever they force themselves to identify a specific tone.

I'd be interested to hear what your teacher says about it!

Cheers

[desi]

I'd be interested to hear what your teacher says about it!

Cheers

After much amusement, my teacher just left...

She said that it is nothing grand (either that, or she does not have a clear memory of way back then). That when students are taught pronunciation by rote, they start off by using the five finger method.

A pity, as I was hoping for more (like stories of her teacher walking down aisles with a ruler at the ready

[meadish_sweetball]

LOL! This happened to me today. I was trying to get the tone right between เมือง and เหมือง(ทอง) - [see the cartoon thread] - and a Thai friend I asked did exactly this with their fingers and the tones (after boring the poor fella silly, I still couldn't clearly enunciate the difference between these two to the satisfaction of a Thai ear)

The 'mid tone' is essentially a drone, pronounced at the exact middle of your comfortable vocal range. If you can do a robot voice, "void of feeling" you can do the mid tone.

The pitch of what is called the 'rising tone' first falls a little bit before rising rapidly.

The best casual description I can give is that the rising tone sounds as if it were a question - but then again, questions in English can have other intonation patterns than this one so it is not a perfect description, just a rough guide.

The key to get the tones right is to listen to the five tones until you want to vomit - regularly. Then listen some more. After that, with the aid of a Thai speaker as a model, try to fix your pronunciation.

You can alternate the practice with a Thai speaker with using this freeware computer program that visualizes pitch curves: http://www.speech.kth.se/wavesurfer/

That way you can compare the visuals of your own voice pattern with a recording of a referent Thai speaker and try to adjust your voice to match up with theirs that way. For most people it takes some time to get the tones right so have patience and be persistent.