Feeding Dairy Cows

[banpunket]

a bit of information is needed we have 40 rai of land.milking parlor etc.42 cows 25 are milkers the rest are calves. i have read thro all

the forums regarding dairy farmers very good reading.i currently feed our cows concentrate 18% protien mushed cassava looks like mash

potato and fang my milk yieds are around 150 kilo per day only 16 milkers at present the rest are dry ready for calving.i have had the land and cows for 2 years. i am currently in the uk with my wife and have let my wifes family run the buisness with us holding the purse strings

in this time i have not seen a profit only large losses.A few questions i would like to be answered.

1) what recomended feed concentrate.

2) what type of silage ie maize and not concentrate or a combination

3) growing my own feed ie maize and shredding

my farm is in the pak chong area

i have grown maize and sold the cob for 3 baht a kilo at a loss is it better to grow the maize for silage

thankyou for any replies

[Maizefarmer]

a bit of information is needed we have 40 rai of land.milking parlor etc.42 cows 25 are milkers the rest are calves. i have read thro all

the forums regarding dairy farmers very good reading.i currently feed our cows concentrate 18% protien mushed cassava looks like mash

potato and fang my milk yieds are around 150 kilo per day only 16 milkers at present the rest are dry ready for calving.i have had the land and cows for 2 years. i am currently in the uk with my wife and have let my wifes family run the buisness with us holding the purse strings

in this time i have not seen a profit only large losses.A few questions i would like to be answered.

1) what recomended feed concentrate.

2) what type of silage ie maize and not concentrate or a combination

3) growing my own feed ie maize and shredding

my farm is in the pak chong area

i have grown maize and sold the cob for 3 baht a kilo at a loss is it better to grow the maize for silage

thankyou for any replies

Your farm is in the Pak Chong area - you realise you are in the best area in Thailand for dairy farming, don't you? And secondly, your yields are not bad.

Your problem is: feed costs versus milk yield - its that simple and its that complicated.

The first thing I want to share with you is this: and if there is anything you take away from my comments, please remember the next sentance or 2.

There is no such thing as an ideal dairy cow for Thailand. A dairy cow (meaning the type and mix of dairy cow chosen for a farm) should be based on an understanding of the conditions that you the dairy farmer can offer that cow. What is a good cow for my farm, is not neccessarily a good cow for your farm. The cow has to be chosen not for the max yield it can provide over a lactation cycle, but for what the conditions you have on the farm can offer the cow. Another way of putting this is: there is more sense in buying a comparitively poorer yielding cow that is more suited for a set of conditions that a farmer can offer the animal, than there is in choosing a cow with high yield and then tying to adapt the farm conditions to suit the cow. Big mistake - as it may well enable the cow to produce a good yield, but not at a viable cost with a good margin.

With that in mind - some information please:

1) What lactation cycle are each of the milkers in?

2) What types of cattle are you milking (what is their genetic makeup)?

3) Where are you sourcing your feed from, and what are you paying for it?

4) What is the quality of the water you are given them, and how much do they have access to each day?

5) How much land do you have - are these dairy cattle stalled 24/7, or are they free to raom, and over what size/area of land?

6) Are you calving every year from each animal? - how ng is the cycyle an dhow long is the dry period?

7) Are you monitoring body condition and mass in the months leading up to both IM and preceeding birth?

8) Is the feed regime been adjusted during lactation. firstly, and secondly, leading up to birth? - as much detail as possible please?

9) Do you know what your maize crop yield per rai is (if you are growing), and what the input costs are per rai per kg of fresh whole plant produced?

10) This figure above should include water costs (irrigation), labour, seed cost, crops per year (2 or 3 - and with respect to the 3rd crop, what are the irrigation costs because the last crop is inevatibly growen in the dry season)

11) What is your incidence of mastitis and other aliments - in particular: lameness - any lameness amongst the cattle, and how often is any one cow suffering from lameness?

Okay - now your specific questions:

1) what recomended feed concentrate?

There is no ideal concentrate - the c/regime is dependant on: yeild, age of cow, lactation cycle, daily feed regime and an undertanding fo a number of charcteristics associated with that feeding regime - most important of which is the animals daily water intake and dry matter intake. When that is defined, then you can look at concentrate amount, and concentrate type (i.e. high by pass or not, and is it vaible to base that amount on fish protein or some other protein type).

2) what type of silage ie maize and not concentrate or a combination?

Again, there is no set answer for this. It is dependant on a number of factors, not least of which goes back to what I said at the start ie. making the best of what is avalible for each cow on an individual basis. Maize is a very valuable feed, and speaking for myself it is my primary feed crop - along with forage grass, for both silage and fresh feed. But how maize is fed can have significant impact on milk yield. For example, whole maize fed cut to say 3" or 4 " lengths and containing kernals which have not been crushed can release some 30% less in the way of nutrition/energy for the cow when compared with maize that is cut to say 1" or 0,5" lengths and containing kernals that have been crushed. Yes - it can be that much. Another influence on maize feed and it's value to the cow in terms of body condition and milk yield, is the quality and temp of the water it has access to, in conjunction with the volume and dry matter content of the maize feed i.e. how wet or dry is this maize feed - is it fresh "cut 'n carry" on a daily basis, or is it been cut say once or twice a week, then piled high and feed bit by bit over a series of 3 - 7 days - at which point, when this pile is low, another lot is cut? The value of maize, irrespective of length or wheather or not the kernel is included or crushed, deterioates fast when not ensiled - at a double figure percentage day after day.

3 - growing my own feed ie maize and shredding?

YES YES YES and YES again - cultivation and processing of complete/full maize plant versus buying it in: it is almost always cheaper to grow your own maize. Feed costs are the biggest expense in dairy farming (along with diesel fuel costs for impact type irrigation). Notwithstanding everything else said in these notes, I can absolutely assure you that getting to grips with maize production - both as a fresh and as an ensiled feed has to rank right at the top of your priorities. Maize crop yield

Answers to the above will go a long way to been able to express an opinion.

You have said nothing regards forage grass cultivation?

Do you grow or feed any, and if so - what type - Guinie or Lucy (Ruzzi) which are both very good forage grass crops for your area.

Fang is a popular feed for dairy cattle, but it is a feed of circumstance as opposed to been a feed of choice.

Maize is an excellent fesh feed, and an excellent ensiled feed as well - but its quality as an ensiled feed is very dependant on a number of factors: length it is chopped to for ensiling, and volume ensiled -because this determines compression ratio in the clamp and subsequent maturation and spoilage. Moisture content when ensiled - the ideal min/max mositure content has a huge impact on subsequent nutritional value when the clamp is opened - you must measure this and get it right +/- no more than couple percent either way, and you must pack and seal the silage the right way if it is going to mature and retain its nutritional value.

For what it worth - I started off with around 10 milkers about 16 years ago. My whole herd of around 400 dairy cows today are to some lessor or greater extent gentically directly linked to those original 10 animals. Over the years I have built on the genetic traits of those cows which have performed well for the conditions I could offer them, and moved on or slaughtered those that were not up to spec. My early years experiances are not dissimilar to yours, if that is anything to be encouraged by, but I was present 24/7 to run and manage the project, and I am afraid to say, but your presence to enforce animal husbandry techniques and discipline is important. That or a willingness on the part of your wifes family to take note of what you want done, and to follow through with it.

To be running at a loss after 2 years is no big deal, so long as you understand what the issues are that are leading to ongoing loss, are learning from the mistakes and have a way forward to correct them - which comes down to a comprehensive understanding of how to address what in my opinion is in this case, feed problems.

Answers to the above can ony touch on problems, but its a starting point.

I wish you every success.

MF

[banpunket]

Thanks maizefarmer for your detailed response

i have grown maize for a cash crop and have harvested 15 rai and 12 rai at a small profit after paying for the cutting and seeding etc i have just cut 12 rai and have planted last month 15 rai i am thinking about using this for the cows.I do not own a tractor so i have to pay for cutting

the land etc.I think you are 100% right about feed costs versis profit.This is why i need info on feed/silage to give myself a chance.I will try to give you some more info

1) various from 3 -6 months

2)thai cows inseminate at 300-500 baht

3)bagged concentrate bought from the co-op at 415 baht per 50 kilo fed at 1 kilo per 2 kilo of milk as in a previous thread.

4)water is pumped up from a borehole and have troughs near milking shed.

5)30 rai for cultivation.the cows are pened in about 4 rai calves stalled 24/7 cows free to roam when maize was cut.

6)Yes we are calving every year.But some times we have to inseminate several times.We have sold several cows which were old and had consistent mastites even when treated.

7)simple answer no

8)yes the last several months we have changed concentrate from 22% to 18% removed mansapalang mush and removed bagged katin.we feed now concentrate at 1-2 kilo ratio as in previous threads.4 bags of maize at 30 kilos per bag 14 bails of fang per day

9)cut 15 rai got a yield of 22 ton cut 12 rai got a 15 ton yield as a cash crop.I recently bought 4 rai of maize and had it shreded at a cost of

30000 baht got 360 45 kilo bags currently feeding this to the cows

10)had 1 cow lame had mastitis in several cows but have managed to clear it for the time being

I hope this is enougth info thanks again maizefarmer.

p.s can i buy my concentrates in bulk bagged i do not have a silo.

[Maizefarmer]

Thanks maizefarmer for your detailed response

i have grown maize for a cash crop and have harvested 15 rai and 12 rai at a small profit after paying for the cutting and seeding etc i have just cut 12 rai and have planted last month 15 rai i am thinking about using this for the cows.

Thinking about it (?) - I've just decided for you: you need to let this current crop grow, then beg/borrow/steal (or even buy - that are not to expensive) a small trailed forage harvester - there's a Thai guy in Muek Lek who makes basic but fairly decent trailed forage harvesters (by one and you have one of the essential crop tools for growing and harvesting foreage crops - and use it to harvest the whole maize crop, chop it up, then it needs to be clamped PROPERLY (meaning: correct particle size, correct moisture level and correct compaction - and then sealed propely: idelay in a big hole in the ground or a banked hole that has been plastic lined to help seal and keep water out and mositure in) for this coming dry season to be used as silage

I do not own a tractor so i have to pay for cutting the land etc.I think you are 100% right about feed costs versis profit. This is why i need info on feed/silage to give myself a chance.I will try to give you some more info

1) various from 3 -6 months - I mean't how old are the cows i.e. are they in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th .. or 10th calving cycle?

2)thai cows inseminate at 300-500 baht - what info are you given regards the origin of the semen - any track record/verification for the bull? Some effort should be made to establish just how this bulls offspring are doing on other dairy farms. The importance of all this lies in that the cows you have now form the genetic pool on which future generations of the herd will be bred - and that is your bread and butter: if it's a crap or average genetic pool then so too will future milk yields be crap or average. You want semen from a bull whose offspring can be seen on dairy farms, and their milk yield records inspected.

3)bagged concentrate bought from the co-op at 415 baht per 50 kilo fed at 1 kilo per 2 kilo of milk as in a previous thread.

Okay - and that bag is marked up at 18% is it? - what is the protein base in the bag - do you know if it is fish, or are you telling me it is cassava based?[/i]

4)water is pumped up from a borehole and have troughs near milking shed.

Excellent - so its clear and cool(?) Have you done a hardness test (needs to be done) - too hard water is a metabolic inhibator - that may need some softening, but won't know till its checked, but as source of water, borehole water is generally one of the best water sources for dairy cattle - so long as its cool and clean. Some stats regards individual cow water consumption per day versus milk yield is something someone on the farm should give some thought to taking a look at at some point - there is a direct relationship between water consumption, feed intake and milk yield, and understanding which cows are not drinking or eating to their max potential is either an indicator of poor diet or something not right with the animal. In either case, its an indicator that something needs to be corrected, whether its getting rid of the animal or changing the diet is something that can be decided on once the data is collected and put into context.

5)30 rai for cultivation. the cows are pened in about 4 rai calves stalled 24/7 cows free to roam when maize was cut.

Brilliant - you have sufficient land to support those 42 head, in theory - what you need now to get sorted out is a good land managment policy, and central to this will be irrigation. So back to the borehole water: what volume per hour or per day is that borehole producing? What is the borehole diameter 6" or 8"? From what depth is the water been lifted? The questions here are related to max volume that borehole could produce, and the depth (therefore the energy cost) the borehole will have to be to lift the water required. Irrigation cost is directly related to pressure and volume, and the higher the water needs to be lifted, the greater the enrgy cost per unit volume. That figure then needs to be tied into irrigation requirements for the 30rai i.e. what is it going to cost to irrigate that 30rai to produce the feed that is needed to support the herd - year round, but especially in the dry season when you will be relying on the borehole 100%. The point is - it can be done: it is possible to provide all feed needs (thru fresh and ensiled feed) for a 40 head herd from 30rai, but it requires skillfull planning and crop type choice. It may be done through strip grazing, or manual cut 'n carry, or mechanised cut 'n carry - which means buying or hiring a small/medium tractor with a small/medium trailed foraged harvester. That can be decided later when all the data is collated.

6)Yes we are calving every year.But some times we have to inseminate several times.We have sold several cows which were old and had consistent mastites even when treated.

Keep records of cows that suffer repeated bouts of lameness and/or mastitis - they must go pronto pronto - there is no space in a high production herd for cows that are in anything but tip top shape.

7)simple answer no

Spread sheet time - sooner you get a spreadsheet worked out and enter into/onto it on a weekely basis each animals' mass and body condition, the sooner you will see an increase in first time successful IM (because you will be able to tailor the feed correctly for pregnancy, which in turn will help ensure good calf development which in turn grows into to a cow that starts calving earlier and earns you a better return). I forgot to ask: do you have any plan regards when you guys stop milking a cow for the next cycle, and how long you keep her dry for?

8)yes the last several months we have changed concentrate from 22% to 18% removed mansapalang mush and removed bagged katin.we feed now concentrate at 1-2 kilo ratio as in previous threads.4 bags of maize at 30 kilos per bag 14 bails of fang per day

Okay - it's hard to for me to give a comprehensive answer here, because its a 10page discussion which needs to be tied into the factors I mentioned above. At a glance that figure sounds high, but I could be wrong. You're in the UK - correct? I will be in the UK last 10days or so of September - come spend a day with me (Cotswolds area), and we can discuss this in detail, but for the time been, drop 25% of the herd (the 5 highest yielders and the 5 lowest yielders - if these cows are at the start or the end of a lactation cycle, then settle on the 10 cows which are closest to the centre of their cycle) to around 13% - 16% concentrate, and see how the yield of these cows who are been feed with this reduced concentrate, changes over the next month. What would be nice to know by end of September is just what impact/role the concentrate % is in the current feed regime. My suspicion is that there is going to be min change in their yield. Moving on a bit, once a plan is worked out to maximise usage of the land you have, a move away from reliance in Fang, will be a good thing and should see a notable increase in yield.

9)cut 15 rai got a yield of 22 ton cut 12 rai got a 15 ton yield as a cash crop.I recently bought 4 rai of maize and had it shreded at a cost of

30000 baht got 360 45 kilo bags currently feeding this to the cows

What !!!!! - thats pretty steep! 22 ton - mositure content or percentage please??[/b]

10)had 1 cow lame had mastitis in several cows but have managed to clear it for the time being

I hope this is enougth info thanks again maizefarmer.

You're welcome - I have no shortage of time for an ex-pat trying to make a success of dairy farming. Some things I charge for (like if I come out to a farm to express a professional opinion, or inspect and write a report on a tractor someone wants to buy) - but forum time is 100% free an dI am more than happy to help.[/i]

p.s can i buy my concentrates in bulk bagged i do not have a silo.

Yes you can - and the larger the bulk is the better the price is - but you need to be able to keep it 100% dry and bug free.

In short, against what you have shared with me, I don't think you're in such a bad position - you're yields are not bad by any standard, what needs to be done is work out if those yields can be maintained or improved, while the costs and inputs reduced, so the margin left is in the black, not the red, and at the risk of repeating myself, this is going to come down to:

- maximising land usage

- maxing borehole capacity (to support crop production)

- weeding out the poor cows from the herd, and building the herd up with good stock/semen

... and everything involved in implementing the above - which means lots of hard work, self discipline and good management, but one thing is cast iron certain: producing your own feed on your own land has a big impact on costs.

[banpunket]

Thanks maizefarmer for your quick and detailed response

the guy in muk lek do you no is number or address ???

1)mean't how old are the cows i.e. are they in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th .. or 10th calving cycle?

the oldest cows are in their 4,5th cycle the majoraty are in the 1st 2nd

2)

what info are you given regards the origin of the semen - any track record/verification for the bull? Some effort should be made to establish just how this bulls offspring are doing on other dairy farms. The importance of all this lies in that the cows you have now form the genetic pool on which future generations of the herd will be bred - and that is your bread and butter: if it's a crap or average genetic pool then so too will future milk yields be crap or average. You want semen from a bull whose offspring can be seen on dairy farms, and their milk yield records inspected

The semen is given by the vet who works for the co-op.(does ocean ring any bells).but i will try to find out i have been thinking about changing the vet to a independant

3)Okay - and that bag is marked up at 18% is it? - what is the protein base in the bag - do you know if it is fish, or are you telling me it is cassava based?[/i]

I was wrong it is 16% called betagro 004 fish based.peanut coconut maize rapeseed cassava blend.

4) we have not done any hardness checks on the water.I think its 6" dia borehole 36 mtrs deep but only has a 1hp motor so i think it may have to be changed for irrigation.But on the posotive side we have running water at the bottom of our land but i do not no if it dries in the dry season!!! I think we used it once to grow sweetcorn i still have all the upvc pipe elec motor etc

5)We have got rid of bad sick cows

6)I have just decreased the 22% feed to 16% last month and you are correct their is not a noticeble decrease but we have just dried 2-3 cows

so the decrease i think is that.

7)Yes i would like to meet up at a later date i live in the manchester area.In the mean time i will try to monitor the feed situation.I have several cows due for calving next month.

8)What !!!!! - thats pretty steep! 22 ton - mositure content or percentage please??[/b

15 rai 28% 12rai 30% or visa versa

9)Yes you can - and the larger the bulk is the better the price is - but you need to be able to keep it 100% dry and bug free.

Yes i have 2 large storage rooms.What tonnage would be required??.Do you have any contact nos

Thanks again for your time and effort much appreciated.

[Maizefarmer]

I'll dig out the number for Muek Lek

Yup - I know Ocean - my wifes a vet (keep that in mind).

16% Betagro - okay, thats fine - an fif you've already droped the percentage you've given me the info I was looking for.

1hp from 36meters!!! - that borehole needs to be taken out to 12" if possible, and then a 5- 7hp AC single pahse pump used (AC is around 30% cheaper to pump with than is diesel) - any space to store water at ground level? Can you dam up the running water at the bottom of the land - if only to make a temp resivouir for irrigation?

I can supply feed and concentrate in 10tons plus loads

lets meet in the Uk in September - pm me with contact details.

MF

[Rinrada]

Fortunately our lot like bananas....and have taken a shine to PIE-BOON ...new bull/buff....(3 in Club already).

not milking cows only pets but we will be increasing numbers up to 20 so got to start getting serious...

[banpunket]

[

attachment=91231:070820091341.jpg]

hi rinrada

hope you are sucsessfull in your venture thanks for the reply

[Maizefarmer]

Nice to see a healthy looking herd of lean "black & whites" - what's the mix - yes, obviously based on Freislands, but what is the rest of the mix - Holstein (probably) and what else?

[banpunket]

hi maizefarmer

I do not no the breed/mix the semen like i said is ocean.We bought our cow stock of local thais.We had a stock of 35 milkers but we have lost several calving or just after calving.Lost a few due to seasonal weather change seems to be a common thing in our area.!The rest we have sold off due to mastitas bad milkers and old age i even had a cow that drank her own milk.pitty because she was a beuty of a cow.

By the way i have never been on a farm before my farming venture in thai so like i said this is a learning curve for me.But i will get on top of it.With some help and good advice.

ps I am a engineer by trade

Did you get my pm maizefarmer

Again thanks for all the info

[mixedbreed]

Hi Banpunket,

I believe these are what Maizefarmers was refering to when he talked about a "cut and carry" machine. Available from Muek Lek at 66 (0)36 341792. Trailer is inclusive with the price,

He built me a larger machine for silerating corn, (trailer not included), works Ok, but am looking for something I can adjust the cut length with, to vary the cut length with this machine is dependant on travel speed.

[banpunket]

Thanks for the reply mixedbreed

Will this machine cut chop to small pieces like maizefarmer suggests? also do you have a ballpark figure on cost! I also am looking to buy concentrate direct from the feedmillers.I have tried to phone several millers in thai from the above links but i am not getting any response.

maizefarmer has kindly offered to supply me in 10 ton batches but this would take me several months to use! Thats not a big problem my local neghbour has said he would share and take half the concentrate. If it was bagged!!I have sent maizefarmer a pm but he must be busy he has not replied.So any nos would be very helpfull.

Again thanks to everybody who has replied

[mixedbreed]

Hi Banpunket,

We do only beef cattle, and grow all our own feed, so don’t have any figures on concentrate. (Dairy is like another planet, has problems that we probably could not handle). “Cut and carry” Machine cost approx Baht 45,000 3 years ago, included the flail cutter and trailer. The larger machine for corn cost approx Baht 55,000 also 3 years ago and doesn’t include a trailer, we already had 3 trailers for when we do grass silage. I am looking for another machine for chopping corn silage that can regulate the size better, this machine requires you to regulate the speed of the machine for the size of the cut corn. Thought I had posted a couple of photo’s but seemed to have misplaced them. The cut and carry machine can be seen here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t&p=2900601

The fabrication shop at Muek Lek is 14 38 50 N 101 12 09 E in Google Earth, that location should put you right down on the shop.

[lucasikhiu]

Goodmorning,my name is Luca I'm italian and i live in Sikhiu (korat)

I am bulding my dairy farm here

I have 30 rai where i'm bulding the cow barn (800 sqm) and we allready have oru nok house,the store bulding for hay and straw and a house for the workers

attached to this land we have 47 rai where we already sown corn (pacific 999)

other 50 rai are far 15 km and we are making 20 rai of cassava and other 30 rai of corn

i think we have a good production this year

my idea is in the next 1 year have 20/30 cows in production and harvest the best part of forage by our self corn silage,fresh grass and hay.

we have new a kubota 70hp tractor,

I must say i never be a farmer!!!!!

is about 1 year i'm studing about that and i think is not so hard make better of the small thai farm

To buy the cow now i am in contact with Chok Chai farm in Pak Chong,they said are ready to give me their support

but i am lookig around

For forage production i don't find good equipment here and in last weeks i contact same italian factory and i find what i need with the acceptable price but yesterday i know there is a 30% + 7% of import duty for these.

Is it true?

i want buy a harvester for corn,a disc mower,a giro hay maker and a baler and something for cut the silomaize

sameone can give me some idea?

ok today i go to Muek Lek

i find a lot of news in this website,sorry if i never write before but is not so easy write in english for me:sorry:

bye and ciao

Luca