Have You Had A Transcendental Experience Related To Buddhism?

[camerata]

My impression is that transcendental experiences among Buddhists tend to be reported more in the Mahayana tradition. Have you ever had one or do you know someone who had one?

Here's one from a Western lady who has been a Shingon priest for about 7 years as a result of her experience. It happened at Ishiyamadera Temple in Kyoto:

"Inside my pilgrim bag are hundreds of prayers that I have been entrusted with by people from all over the world, who have given me their prayers and petitions to offer to Kuan Yin on their behalf during my pilgrimage: prayers for physical and spiritual healing; prayers seeking love, reconciliation, protection, and success; prayers of gratitude and devotion.

Suddenly, I begin to experience each and every one of these prayers as truly living entities, as the lifeforce of their writers, as voices crying out to Kuan Yin for help. I begin to feel their underlying pain like a darkness pouring into me and through me to Kuan Yin. So much pain that I feel I might disappear into a black hole of suffering, as all the world seems to be crying out for help. I begin to chant Kuan Yin's mantras - the short ones first and then the long dharanis that I have memorised as part of my esoteric training. Over and over I keep chanting, tears streaming down my face, looking into Kuan Yin's radiant face, pleading for release from this suffering.

Then it happens. A brilliant light begins to radiate from her; no, it's not "light", it's something much greater than simple radiance: it is an energy of such intense brilliance it can no longer be called "light". It flows down upon me and wraps around me like a thousand whispers of love, like a mother's embrace of unconditional love for her child. I am enveloped by her divine compassion, and through me all the prayers I carry are bathed in her healing love. I know that the prayers have been heard, and I bow once more in humble gratitude, feeling now a warm glow of profound peace.

How much time had passed, I wondered as I reluctantly rose to leave when a group of pilgrims shuffled in behind me. A minute? An hour? A lifetime? As I stepped out of the temple into the bright sunlight I knew that I had been reborn and with me all those whose prayers I carried. At that moment, I vowed to become a Buddhist priest and devote myself to Kuan Yin in my special role as the "Prayer Vessel", as I was later dubbed by the abbot who ordained me. "

http://www.novazine.com.au/article_archive...earblessing.htm

[fabianfred]

Sounds good.... but is it Buddhism?

The buddhas said that only by our own efforts and practice could we find freedom from suffering. Prayers and requests for help are outside the teachings...although we know that the mind is more powerful than we realise.

[agent69]

Sounds like she had experienced the euphoria that is quite a common stage of meditation. Still that can be the illusion that holds us from progressing.

Edited August 19, 2009 by agent69

[chutai]

There isn't any Buddhism apart from everyday life. Transcendental experiences may be a delightfully self-absorbing means of escapism, but how far removed from the interconnectedness of all phenomena do we have to veer in order to satisfy just our curiosity ?

I'm not exactly dismissing visualistion as practiced in the, e.g. Tibetan tradition, there has proven to be great benefit to be had in this -- especially in the field of the healing process. But that is a form of actual proof . But I cannot envisage the same being true with transcendental experience, even although that which we experience is that which we fully internalise. But that learning from our experience is in no way being separate from our immediate environment -- it's only that we learn to transform that when necessary, and thus ourselves.

I would definitely like to think that when we understand the concept and reality of ichinen sanzen then we fully understand the profundity of all our action, thoughts , intentions and Buddhist practice. Perhaps we already do know -- it's just a matter of finding the means to reveal that covered, but innate knowledge by shining the mirror of the true reality of all phenomena.

[Svenn]

Sounds like she had experienced the euphoria that is quite a common stage of meditation. Still that can be the illusion that holds us from progressing.

There isn't any Buddhism apart from everyday life. Transcendental experiences may be a delightfully self-absorbing means of escapism, but how far removed from the interconnectedness of all phenomena do we have to veer in order to satisfy just our curiosity ?

These comments are reiterating proper abhidharma, but I would caution against dismissing all experiences as "stages of meditiation", thinking that Buddhism is just a quietist practice of silencing the mind in everyday life. Transcendental, euphoric experience is the content of the awakening experience as recorded by hundreds of masters, even the Buddha himself. Theravada monks just tend to keep their experiences under wraps lest they mislead the monks to chase after 'experiences' outside themselves, unlike the Mahayana and Zen who take that risk. One of the most shocking parts of the experience apparently is the disattachment from time and space, both being imaginations that have defined and limited our conscious lives since infancy. Moreover unconsciousness, or death, which we have only been able to define as 'not' this or 'not' that (which logically is no definition at all) suddenly is grasped by the mind and 'death' no longer becomes real or feared. D.T. Suzuki said satori was "like everyday life, but 6 inches off the ground."

I had an experience 6 years ago that lasted for a probably 2 seconds- I was doing walking mediation and when I suddenly had to step over something, I immediately felt like my body shooting up to the sky. Now this is the deeper part: I don't feel as if this was "an experience" that "happened" in the past- it is as if it has happened, is happening, and always will happen... in other words, now that I have fallen back into ignorance, I reflect back on it as if it was a differentiated experience felt by my 'self'... yet "it" was somehow the foundation of all our experience that is ever with us.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Svenn

[rockyysdt]

There isn't any Buddhism apart from everyday life. Transcendental experiences may be a delightfully self-absorbing means of escapism, but how far removed from the interconnectedness of all phenomena do we have to veer in order to satisfy just our curiosity ?

At the beginning & during a large part of our journey, our ego's are very much in control.

Aren't transcendental experiences our reward, & as long as we don't become attached to them, don't they offer us momentum until our mindfulness starts to bear fruit?

[chutai]

At the beginning & during a large part of our journey, our ego's are very much in control.

At the beginning & during a large part of our journey, our ego's are very much in control. Aren't transcendental experiences our reward, & as long as we don't become attached to them, don't they offer us momentum until our mindfulness starts to bear fruit?

In a very real sense there is a continual battle with our lesser ego/self and greater ego/self. In Mahayana we don't accept the extinguishing of the ego per se, but rather distinguish between the two selves. One significant purpose of practice being to transcend our lower selves away from focusing on petty, transcient things into that which reaches out into and is connected to all phenomena. The practical manifestation of which could be defined as being altruism and pure-hearted principles -- the Bodhisattva ideal which is revealed through our practice as we undergo a mental and life transformation, sometimes referred to as our own human revolution.

Transcendental experiences have nothing to do with Buddhism. I would go as far as to define any such thing as a further self-delusion that needs to be put aside in favour of pursuing the course of practice that transforms both ourselves and our immediate environment, as the two are intrinsically linked. I'm afraid that the pursuance of transcendental experience is more akin to mysticism than providing any natural impetus that prompts us to seek the reality of all all phenomena -- which in turn necessitates the shedding of the shallow in order to reveal the profound.

The philosophy of . . . Buddhism. . . undoubtedly represents one of the most comprehensive and systematic forms of humanism. It is based on naturalistic metaphysics, with causal dependence as its central theme. Rejecting any form of transcendentalism, determinism, or fatalism, it emphasizes its ultimate faith in man and recognizes his power or potentiality in solving his problems through reliance primarily upon empirical know ledge, reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision. It believes in the freedom of man, not in a transcendental sphere, but here and now. The highest goal it offers is not other-worldly but this-worldly.

Shalistramba Sãtra, trans. N. Ross Reat

[Brucenkhamen]

Transcendental experiences have nothing to do with Buddhism. I would go as far as to define any such thing as a further self-delusion that needs to be put aside in favour of pursuing the course of practice that transforms both ourselves and our immediate environment, as the two are intrinsically linked. I'm afraid that the pursuance of transcendental experience is more akin to mysticism than providing any natural impetus that prompts us to seek the reality of all all phenomena -- which in turn necessitates the shedding of the shallow in order to reveal the profound.

I agree. Pursuing mystical experiences is just creating another form of attachment. At least when it comes to attachment to mundane things we can more readily be aware of the limitations of that, attachment to mystical things can easily be reinforced by by delusion.

[rockyysdt]

I'm afraid that the pursuance of transcendental experience is more akin to mysticism than providing any natural impetus that prompts us to seek the reality of all all phenomena -- which in turn necessitates the shedding of the shallow in order to reveal the profound.

l accept what you say, and ask these questions to expand my understanding.

My thoughts were not "pursuance" of transcendental experience, but the pleasurable by product when such experiences come uninvited in the course of our journey. We can't help but experience them.

My ego may enjoy such experiences, giving my ego controlled self impetus to keep going (meditation & mindfulness) until true insight starts to take a hold.

Treacherous as it may be (attachment) aren't indirect rewards better than failing to continue with ones practice which appears to be everyone's biggest hurdle?

The philosophy of . . . Buddhism. . . undoubtedly represents one of the most comprehensive and systematic forms of humanism. It is based on naturalistic metaphysics, with causal dependence as its central theme. Rejecting any form of transcendentalism, determinism, or fatalism, it emphasizes its ultimate faith in man and recognizes his power or potentiality in solving his problems through reliance primarily upon empirical know ledge, reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision. It believes in the freedom of man, not in a transcendental sphere, but here and now. The highest goal it offers is not other-worldly but this-worldly. Shalistramba Sãtra, trans. N. Ross Reat

Doesn't this conflict to some extent the goal of cessation of rebirth by extinguishing negative karma in order to reconnect with the permanent & unconditioned?

Isn't the permanent & unconditioned state in a higher world?

If it isn't in a higher world, wouldn't the highest goal (this world) be very temporary as cessation of rebirth would mean permanent death?

Edited August 22, 2009 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

In a very real sense there is a continual battle with our lesser ego/self and greater ego/self.

In Mahayana we don't accept the extinguishing of the ego per se, but rather distinguish between the two selves. One significant purpose of practice being to transcend our lower selves away from focusing on petty, transcient things into that which reaches out into and is connected to all phenomena. The practical manifestation of which could be defined as being altruism and pure-hearted principles -- the Bodhisattva ideal which is revealed through our practice as we undergo a mental and life transformation, sometimes referred to as our own human revolution.

I understand that examining whether there is an "I" or "me" (ego) involved, is a way of distinguishing between enlightenment & transcendental experience, the ultimate step being extinguishing the ego.

How does that fit in with the Mahayanan philosophy?

[chutai]

rockyysdt

please don't think that I'm ignoring your questions. I have answered them -- twice in fact -- and then managed to lose them both whilst trying to locate a recently read article that would put your permanent & unconditioned in context. I have other things to address today, but will come back to you in the near future.

[rockyysdt]

rockyysdt

please don't think that I'm ignoring your questions.things to address today, but will come back to you in the near future.

Not at all Chutai.

By refraining from automatic response I new you needed time for careful consideration.

Mindfulness teaches us to reflect first.

I look forward to your response.

PS: Sorry I didn't get it fully earlier.

[khaowong1]

Sounds good.... but is it Buddhism?

The buddhas said that only by our own efforts and practice could we find freedom from suffering. Prayers and requests for help are outside the teachings...although we know that the mind is more powerful than we realise.

If you have been around a lot of Thai Buddhist monks like I have, you will find they are in two different camps about these teachings. Some are locked into the belief like you just said, prayers and requests for help are outside the teachings, then there is the other camp who believe that there are deva's, devatta's who listen to these prayers and do help... I found it's easier to walk a middle ground... I haven't yet been a reciever of any special visit from a deva, or any other spirit, so cannot say for 100% certain there is any truth to the second camps belief... but I keep an open mind....

[Worldvisitor]

I don't know if this could be called transcendental.

Once I started to meditate with some ambient music, after 20 minutes I found myself floating in nothingness but sitll hearing the music. To this day, it's probably the most incredible thing I've ever experienced.

I cannot explain the level of goodness I felt.

And when the music stopped, I fell back on earth, I wonder how long I would have stayed in this state if the music had looped forever?.

Anyone can explain this phenomena?

Thanks, Pierre

[dutchguest]

I think transcendence is the most universal law of nature, of the evolution of the universe and of life on earth.

We are mostly separated from it, not aware of it, do not feel living part of it by our limited ego-bound awareness for which it is hard to experience (not hard to conceptualize) the impermanent, ever changing nature of everything and let itself go with (and dissolve in) the stream. The ego is a product of human creation, of alienation from nature (and from experiencing transcendence) and it means one is not identifying oneself with one's true nature but is clinging itself to social position, possessions, desires of more of the same etc. and mostly identifies itself with these kind of things as well as with his religion, nation etc. The ego-bound person can not transcend this limited, alienated state of affairs and experience anything beyond, identify with his true nature and look at his limited mind and awareness from a higher and broader viewpoint, he is in a way imprisoned by his worldly desires and possessions.

I see transcendence as the dialectical process of nature to transform the existing world into a more, higher developed. If human consciousness is not conditioned, restricted, misformed, prejudiced it will give a realistic reflection of this process. I.m.o. a common misconception of many Buddhists is that they think they have to give up, renounce the world and worldly things to be able to transcend it. But you can not transcend anything you have given up. First you have to accept everything "as it is" and see things "as they are". E.g. if you give up having sex the desires for it do not disappear, on the contrary they will become stronger, the suffering becomes stronger. It can become an obsession. The same for fasting, people who fast can only think about food, it becomes an obsession. The result is not transcendence of sex or physical desires but permanent efforts to repress the unwanted impulses, a permanent struggle and suffering.

Transcendence means overcoming, understanding, accepting. Nothing is lost or has to be given up. It means you can see things as they are. then you can use things but will not be used by them. In a way you have freed yourself from physical, unconscious impulses not by renouncing them but by becoming aware of them and of how they function. Only by accepting things as they are you can make progress and see and experience things from a more developed, higher point of view. You can become a neutral, objective observer, a witness of what is going on without identification and suffering.

So objectively everybody has transcendental experiences, is part of the process of transcendence, evolution, only mostly we are not aware of it, it is part of the "unconscious". The ego is the conscious part which is desiring worldly things or renouncing them but has not transcended them, freed itself from them. If the ego can be dropped there will be no unconscious, no division between conscious and unconscious, no dualism. It again does not mean that something is lost, but that the perspective has changed. You can use the mind as a useful instrument but will not be used by it by identifying yourself with it totally. You have transcended the mind witch is now part of a bigger whole. In evolution man has transcended all lower forms of life which are still part of him, nothing is lost, renounced or given up. In the development of the human embryo you can see back the whole evolution of life on earth, from protozoa to worms, birds, mammals, apes. Only his consciousness can mostly not accept this state of affairs (and so becoming able to transcend it) but find it necessary on the one hand to repress his physical reality and on the other to dream that humans are of a different order then nature, stand above it and are separated from it.

Subjective awareness of most people is mostly limited and separated from objective reality.

In transcendental experiences e.g. through meditation (but also in other ways e.g. by listening to music or seeing a beautiful sunset) people can have flashes of objective reality and the separation between yourself and the whole outer world, the subjective and the objective, can temporarily be overcome and you can feel one with e.g. the music (mostly without being able to understand fully what is going on). For enlightened people the dualism of subjectivity and objectivity is permanent overcome, transcended.

[eggomaniac]

In answer to your question, I often attain, what I call, dream/wake consciousness, while meditating. The form of meditation is purely my own, from self learning. Recently, when describing it to an old friend, I was told it is like phrana yama yoga. Sure enough, that is what I was doing.

Just lately, I have refined it where I do [Om Mani Padme Hum] Hindu Buddha I don't even know? on the exhale, the Hriihh on the inhale and emptiness on holding between. [That is when I get in the Tower, because the energy from breathing is not taxing during these pauses]

Anyway, in 2007, in Thailand a beautiful song came to me. I was pressed to try to wake enough to write it down, it was so beautiful, but was 'told' to relax and enjoy. The song was later written down, but it was not necessary, as I remembered it well. I am not a practising musician but now I know what artists talk about when they refer their Muse creating to work.

I wish I knew a recording artist....

Precious Love ....

is what you are ........... to me

to me..

that's all I have to know...

Precious love'''''''''''

just like a flower will grow ...

for us

for you

and, yes, for me..................

Precious love.................

is in your eyes today...........

Shining clear.......

you don't have to say.......

from your smile ......

I know it's here to stay...

Precious love will never go away...

------------------

and so on........

That's the song, not all of it

----------------------------------------------------

I've also astral travelled, but never managed to bring the camera...

maybe on e day , just kidding?

------------

meaningful meditation

during meaningful coupling

is the BEST

you want some transcending!?

Edited February 18, 2010 by eggomaniac

[fabianfred]

I had an experience 6 years ago that lasted for a probably 2 seconds- I was doing walking mediation and when I suddenly had to step over something, I immediately felt like my body shooting up to the sky. Now this is the deeper part: I don't feel as if this was "an experience" that "happened" in the past- it is as if it has happened, is happening, and always will happen... in other words, now that I have fallen back into ignorance, I reflect back on it as if it was a differentiated experience felt by my 'self'... yet "it" was somehow the foundation of all our experience that is ever with us.

as you say...not so much an experience as something which is happening all the time....but we only just became aware of it....

I have had similar during walking meditation where the normal swinging of my leg seemed to have been transformed into a stutter as if the film was slowed down and I became aware of each individual frame.

[phetaroi]

If you have been around a lot of Thai Buddhist monks like I have, you will find they are in two different camps about these teachings. Some are locked into the belief like you just said, prayers and requests for help are outside the teachings, then there is the other camp who believe that there are deva's, devatta's who listen to these prayers and do help... I found it's easier to walk a middle ground... I haven't yet been a reciever of any special visit from a deva, or any other spirit, so cannot say for 100% certain there is any truth to the second camps belief... but I keep an open mind....

Thank you for saying this.

One of the things that is risky -- at least to me -- is assuming that any of us has "the answer". I don't even much care what the question is. Having "the answer" to any question about Buddhism or any other philosophy or faith or religion equals having a closed mind.

I had one "meditation" experience that occurred even before I was Buddhist that went beyond what could be described as a "normal life" experience. I was meditating about a specific issue facing me, and briefly I was somewhere else and was told, "It is the right thing to do." And then it was all over. Maybe that's the euphoria someone previously mentioned...lasted all of a few seconds. I'm not comfortable discussing what it was about, but it was actually not the answer I was seeking, although it took my life in a completely different direction which led me to where I am today (in Thailand) as a Buddhist...yet it had nothing directly to do with Buddhism.

That was 24 years ago, and I've never been able to repeat that level of meditation. Or even come close.

[Svenn]

That was 24 years ago, and I've never been able to repeat that level of meditation. Or even come close.

Indeed, what I described above was a long time ago for me too, nor have I been able to repeat that depth either... one of the most haunting fears in the back of my mind is that I have become shallow and profane by this comfortable life, and I'm never going to attain a meaningful samadhi again...

as you say...not so much an experience as something which is happening all the time....but we only just became aware of it....

I have had similar during walking meditation where the normal swinging of my leg seemed to have been transformed into a stutter as if the film was slowed down and I became aware of each individual frame.

That's very, very interesting... was it some time ago for you as well?

[rockyysdt]

Indeed, what I described above was a long time ago for me too, nor have I been able to repeat that depth either... one of the most haunting fears in the back of my mind is that I have become shallow and profane by this comfortable life, and I'm never going to attain a meaningful samadhi again...

I've read that chasing blissful (ananda) experiences can retard your progress.

That it's important to avoid attachment to such experiences & continue to practice without expectation or attachment.

Edited February 19, 2010 by rockyysdt