Don't Stall Petition : Juturon Warns Pm

[webfact]

Don't stall petition : Juturon warns PM

By The Nation

Published on August 20, 2009

A leader of the red shirts threatened yesterday to stage a mass rally and begin a signature campaign to seek the PM's impeachment

if the government drags its feet on their petition for a royal pardon for ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Jatuporn Phrompan, an MP for the Pheu Thai Party and a leader of the pro-Thaksin red shirts, said comments by government figures suggested they may try to withhold or shoot down the petition.

"If the government wants trouble with the red shirts, we will find trouble for the government and Abhisit [Vejjajiva]. We will start a signature campaign to seek the premier's impeachment. He will be aware how many people dislike him," he said.

The petition was submitted to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary on Monday and sent to Cabinet yesterday for recommendation on what to do.

Abhisit said the process of verifying signatures and preparing recommendations for the Palace would take at least 60 days, which was standard. "In cases of people with grievances who file uncomplicated petitions, it takes 60 days to process. Why does Jatuporn have to be given privilege? There must be examination, which is usual," he said.

"I instructed the relevant agencies to treat this case like they do others," the PM said. He noted he had sued Jatuporn in two defamation cases for "speaking untruth".

Is the petition a bid to politicise the monarchy, and split the land?

The country is going through a delicate phase as politics takes a dangerous twist - with the red shirts and Thaksin Shinawatra clamouring, even begging for a royal pardon. It could drive the country on the path to civil war.

For many, the threat that Thailand will be "a nation lost" is real. The division among Thais is clearly getting out of hand, tak-ing into account actions from both the government and Thaksin's side.

The move to seek a royal par-don for Thaksin is clearly politi-cally motivated and his possible motive may be to politicise the monarchy. Thaksin knows well the government cannot give a recommendation in his favour if the petition does not meet legal criteria - he or his family must be the petitioner and he must be serving a jail term. He and his key family members did not care to meet these criteria.

Thing is, the Ratchadapisek land purchase is far from the only corruption charge Thaksin faces. He has a host of graft cases pending. What the former PM wants to do is try to wipe the slate clean. According to his ear-lier statements, to achieve that, Parliament must pass a law granting an amnesty for politi-cians accused or convicted of wrongdoing.

To force the government to take that path, Thaksin must put the country on the verge of break-up by mobilising his sup-porters to back his political game of a royal petition. Many fans who truly wish for his return have pent-up hope he actually comes back. Thaksin's camp claims three million people signed the petition.

The government naively responded by summoning local leaders to gather a bigger num-ber of people to oppose the peti-tion. It was an embarrassing political blunder. The govern-ment realised later that mobilis-ing the masses to crush the dream of Thaksin's supporters would only aggravate the situa-tion. In other words, it has fallen into Thaksin's trap. That is why the anti-petition move was quickly shelved.

Once the red shirts submitted the petition, they dropped an allegation that the government was trying to shoot it down. To avoid another trap, the govern-ment should heed the call from Sunai Pasuk, Thailand consult-ant for New York-based Human Rights Watch, to appoint a politi-cally-neutral body to explain to the public the process of filing a royal petition.

He suggested the Royal Institute as suitable, since it has people knowledgeable about this task. Heeding this advice and carrying out an effective cam-paign to bring about public understanding on the issue may help prevent further claims against the government.

While the government is trying to resolve the issue through the legal system, Thaksin has dili-gently continued his phone ins to convince supporters not to accept the system, insisting he is innocent and the law is unac-ceptable because "it has been interpreted to destroy political rivals".

Whatever action Thaksin and his supporters take after this is expected to culminate in con-frontation and conflict, brought about by delicate issues after involving the monarchy in poli-tics.

The government must tread carefully to avoid further errors that could put the country at risk of a civil war, by causing deep division to a point where things are not able to be cured.

-- The Nation 2009/08/20

[steffi]

So we have somebody who wasn't put in jail for instigating violence before instigating violence again?

[dale8]

Hello, I hope the Thai government will us this cooling down period to educate the Thai people about this process. Many families support both sides of this conflict so it would not be good to have brother against brother in the streets. I hope for whatever is good for the people in Thailand, and any violence would not be good for business again.

[webfact]

"If the government wants trouble with the red shirts, we will find trouble for the government and Abhisit [Vejjajiva]. We will start a signature campaign to seek the premier's impeachment. He will be aware how many people dislike him," he said.

Put this Jatuporn in the place where he belongs to - in prison! Immediately!

Edited August 20, 2009 by webfact

[Insight]

Quoting myself SJ style:

They could always start another petition to request the current petition is handled quickly.

"If the government wants trouble with the red shirts, we will find trouble for the government and Abhisit [Vejjajiva]. We will start a signature campaign to seek the premier's impeachment. He will be aware how many people dislike him," he said.

The great Red Shirt circus rolls on....

[Siripon]

The Red shirts can't wait because Thaksin's assets case will conclude with the verdict in October, and if the economy improves by the year's end that knocks any holes in their claim that the square headed superman can solve all the poor's problem with one wave of his hand.

Got to oust the government now, got to help their paymaster the best they can.

The government need someone versed in petition procedures to go on channels 3 and 7 and explain the criteria and processes clearly.

A public information campaign is in order and preferably not led by the incompetent Sathit.

[hammered]

Considering the palace transferred the petition to the government and asked for a legal recommendation and that the stated length of euch petition considerations is 2 months shouldnt Jatuporn stop interferring in the process that he was one to initiate. The government are now carrying out a palace request and have stated the timeframe to be of the normal length.

Siriporn undertsands why someone needs change, action or violence soon. The fight for democracy if that is what reds are really after could easily wait a month or six , and then if things are not to their liking the campaign furthered. The impetuous Jatuporn undernmines any red claim to be about democracy and not Thaksin. There is no rush except for Thaksin.

[Thai at Heart]

Considering the palace transferred the petition to the government and asked for a legal recommendation and that the stated length of euch petition considerations is 2 months shouldnt Jatuporn stop interferring in the process that he was one to initiate. The government are now carrying out a palace request and have stated the timeframe to be of the normal length.

Siriporn undertsands why someone needs change, action or violence soon. The fight for democracy if that is what reds are really after could easily wait a month or six , and then if things are not to their liking the campaign furthered. The impetuous Jatuporn undernmines any red claim to be about democracy and not Thaksin. There is no rush except for Thaksin.

I couldn't agree more.

"Engage Brain, Think, Open Mouth, Shut up", would have been so much better.

[Wolfie]

I thought the reds rebranded the petition from a 'Petition for Royal Pardon' to a 'Petition for Help' due to the whole "Family member must submit it/subject must be behind bars already" legal stand point?

Seems the Red shirts are running around in circles chasing their own tails, one minite its a Pardon they seek, the next its Help they seek, next its back to a Pardon etc etc.

Then to come out with the implied "Approve the Petition or we will wage civil war" just reeks of a spoiled little toddler throwing his toys out of the pram, "If i dont get my way, i will scream and scream and scream until i'm sick!"

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

[webfact]

I thought the reds rebranded the petition from a 'Petition for Royal Pardon' to a 'Petition for Help' due to the whole "Family member must submit it/subject must be behind bars already" legal stand point?

Seems the Red shirts are running around in circles chasing their own tails, one minite its a Pardon they seek, the next its Help they seek, next its back to a Pardon etc etc.

Then to come out with the implied "Approve the Petition or we will wage civil war" just reeks of a spoiled little toddler throwing his toys out of the pram, "If i dont get my way, i will scream and scream and scream until i'm sick!"

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

that scenario does not exist in a red mans world...

[cougar52]

"If the government wants trouble with the red shirts, we will find trouble for the government and Abhisit [Vejjajiva]. We will start a signature campaign to seek the premier's impeachment. He will be aware how many people dislike him," he said.

Put this Jatuporn in the place where he belongs to - in prison! Immediately!

Along with all the wrong doers, regardless of the color of their shirts

[KireB]

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

I am afraid we'll see a very violent end game

These are very dangerous people and a lot of money is involved!

[hammered]

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

I am afraid we'll see a very violent end game

These are very dangerous people and a lot of money is involved!

Probably right

[Samuian]

I thought the reds rebranded the petition from a 'Petition for Royal Pardon' to a 'Petition for Help' due to the whole "Family member must submit it/subject must be behind bars already" legal stand point?

Seems the Red shirts are running around in circles chasing their own tails, one minite its a Pardon they seek, the next its Help they seek, next its back to a Pardon etc etc.

Then to come out with the implied "Approve the Petition or we will wage civil war" just reeks of a spoiled little toddler throwing his toys out of the pram, "If i dont get my way, i will scream and scream and scream until i'm sick!"

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

Well, guess "the little (misbred) toddler" sit's somewhere in the

UAE and claims to be homesick whilst he stirring campaign after campaign -

and by far it isn't any more just about the correction of some "biased judiciary"

but - ah' well in the process we might just go for the lot!" thing of action - by now it's

ALL or NOTHIN"!

And "little Jakrapop" is "intelligent enough to feel great to be "his masters voice"!

Outside Thailand he would probably considered - ah' well it is a medical term..

Next!

[webfact]

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

I am afraid we'll see a very violent end game

These are very dangerous people and a lot of money is involved!

Yes, probably a few days before tourist high season is due to start!

Good Nite Thailand!

[baht&sold]

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

I am afraid we'll see a very violent end game

These are very dangerous people and a lot of money is involved!

Probably right

Definitely right. Incited violence to create a re-coup attempt is coming, all the signs are there. To recoup Mr Thaksin's frozen assets, void vote-fraud, void convictions, void future court cases, free banned politicians and ultimately to reclaim power (all in the guise of 'returning democracy'...)

Yellow airport closures caused a terrible blow, then just when it appeared a 'possible' uptick was in reach, we had incited red-riots at Songkran. Now, if or rather when another incited red-riot occurs, basically nothing screams 'CANCEL MY TICKET' louder than heightened personal safety concerns (which would also destroy any faint hope for even a modest 'high-season').

As the pity-pardon petition clearly never met the established criteria, it looks certain to be halted. This was predictable from the outset and it's impossible the organisers were unaware of this from the very beginning. Cynically dividing people even further appears the main aim from the start. For what purpose? Also, who has more to win by causing Thailand to lose? And finally, would the 'victory' be worth the price paid in damage done to Thailand?

Regardless, the foundations for inciting further division and unrest has now been laid. The stage is set to 'shake & stir' and when the timing is right then the 'wetwork' can start. Diabolically clever plan, credit due to a square-faced 'master' chess player. Now we wait for the next move in this cynical high-stakes 'game' (which is surely coming, likely before 3rd week in Sept). When Mr Thaksin sends his family overseas to safety in first class comfort again, whilst pleading for his supporters to bring their own kids to join the protest again, this would probably be the best/worst indicator Songkran 2 is about to kick off...

In the event of future incited violence it hardly matters how one may wish to colour the 'winner', Thailand would ultimately lose and worst case be finished off for the forseeable future.

[virtualtraveller]

Certainly they know it's not legally possible, clearly they are simply applying sympathy pressure, and it's likely to lead to conflict, and Thaksin and Co. couldn't care less about bringing the whole house down since they have nothing to lose. How does a govt brand 3 million people as spoilers.

I think the Govt should act sincerely in considering the petition then advise the King to grant a pardon only AFTER Thaksin has done his time, in accordance with the law. The trouble is Thailand has a long history of unequal law, which is why 3 million people signed on believing the King could somehow bend the law for a man so loved.

This whole 'unequal law' syndrome is at the heart of the country's various problems.

In any case, if it were down to a straight pardon decision I don't think it should be given to someone who has shown no remorse, gone on the run and incited divisions.

Then, like the comments above suggest, there are other cases of corruption coming up, so where does that place Thaksin. Another pardon petition. How many times do you pardon a serial crook.

The wording of the petition was also nonsense. It's suggesting that a crook be pardoned because he's best at getting us out of the economic recession. That a fresh election be held because this govt isn't loved or respected. And they're calling that 'democracy!'

[jamesjdaly]

Where's Fartwart (Ferwert) gone to? He usually trumpets in on these discussions!!

[Plus]

I beleive in the latest published versrion of the petition they called Thaksin an "elected PM". That is factually incorrect. He himself dissolved the House and subsequent elections didn't produce neither the parliament nor the elected leader. On the day of the coup his status was only "interim PM".

[webfact]

Where's Fartwart (Ferwert) gone to? He usually trumpets in on these discussions!!

eerie silence......

[Ga-gai]

If the government doesn't respond and talk to the citizens about the whole thing, from the accusations of Thaksin to the process of getting a royal pardon, the poor and educated people in the rural regions will easily pick up the "red shirt" truth as the only real truth, because those are the only ones that are spreading their propaganda. If you repeat a lie enough, it will finally become a truth. The government need to inform the whole nation what is going on. The info war is the first war that has to be won. Otherwise there will sure be a high risk of civil war. If this doesn't settle down soon, I do not dare to think of what could happen to this country in a near when His Majesty the King is no longer with us. That's what scares me most. The highly loved HMK is the only person that got the respect from basically all of the population and prevent a civil war.

[Siripon]

True, an information campaign is vital, I'm not sure how seriously to take the estimated 3.5 million signatures though.

Many may have signed because the local village headman told them to, I noticed many of those arriving on the buses on Monday were housewives, undoubtedly paid for a day trip.

That's not to say they don't love the world's greatest liar, but it's another thing to assume there's 3.5 million redshirts poised to enter Bangkok to engage in violence and provoke another coup. That will have to be left to the Songkran thugs again but the public have already seen them in action so it will be hard to blame the blue shirts again.

The reconciliation bill proposed by Pumjaithai is worrying, I forget if it was Boonjong talking but when asked if it would include Thaksin he declined to answer. If Newin goes to jail perhaps they'll turn back to Pheua Thai and backstab the Democrats to vote in an amnesty for all.

[Ga-gai]

Many may have signed because the local village headman told them to, I noticed many of those arriving on the buses on Monday were housewives, undoubtedly paid for a day trip.

Yes, that's how it's done during the normal elections. Give the village headman a couple of thousand baht and he will tell all the villagers to whom they should vote on. Then they do exactly that. That's a big democracy problem.

[noithip]

When Mr Thaksin sends his family overseas to safety in first class comfort again, whilst pleading for his supporters to bring their own kids to join the protest again, this would probably be the best/worst indicator Songkran 2 is about to kick off...

That's exactly what you have to look out for, they leave the country and you can be pretty sure what will happen next...

BTW Fervert (our religous man) is BANNED!

[Wolfie]

When Mr Thaksin sends his family overseas to safety in first class comfort again, whilst pleading for his supporters to bring their own kids to join the protest again, this would probably be the best/worst indicator Songkran 2 is about to kick off...

That's exactly what you have to look out for, they leave the country and you can be pretty sure what will happen next...

BTW Fervert (our religous man) is BANNED!

And you are his long lost cousin i guess?

[noithip]

And you are his long lost cousin i guess?

No we meet daily, would be a shame loosing him!

[noithip]

I thought the reds rebranded the petition from a 'Petition for Royal Pardon' to a 'Petition for Help' due to the whole "Family member must submit it/subject must be behind bars already" legal stand point?

Seems the Red shirts are running around in circles chasing their own tails, one minite its a Pardon they seek, the next its Help they seek, next its back to a Pardon etc etc.

Then to come out with the implied "Approve the Petition or we will wage civil war" just reeks of a spoiled little toddler throwing his toys out of the pram, "If i dont get my way, i will scream and scream and scream until i'm sick!"

In some ways, i hope the Petition is submitted to the office of HRH and then its flat out rejected - put an end to this silliness! What will the Red's do then?

Unfortunatly this little toddler has nasty toys, and a even nastier scream. I personally don't think a rejection would "put an end to all this". These people are paid for not giving up, so as long there is money to finance them, it's hard to stop.

[Jingthing]

These people are paid for not giving up, so as long there is money to finance them, it's hard to stop.

Good point, so follow the money source and CHOKE it. Why should the government under threat of an anti-democratic red shirt insurgent revolution be polite at this point? It is past that.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Jingthing