How Can I Stop Wifes Family From Mortgaging My House

[aussiebebe]

Reading through this thread, the salient issues seem to be trust, illiteracy (in Thai) and uncertainty. The OP originally wrote expressing his concern that his wife or family may remortgage any house he might buy without his consent. My only comment is that it's much easier to get money into Thailand, than out (there is always pressure to do so, especially when married) and my hat goes off to all the board members who have written that they have either feigned poverty or flat-out refused to oblige - you are all role-models for the rest of us!

Being married to a Thai myself, I consider whole-heartedly that my wife would place greater emphasis on her family than on me, should push come to shove. It's a common theme on these forums and the OP should consider his predicament before buying anything.

[lioness]

A husbands or wife's consent is required to register a mortgage or sell land isn't it?

Sadly, NO

[onlycw]

They are "pretty generous" indeed using other people's assets. My wife's 12 Baht of gold ended up in a jewelry shop. Then the fun and games started. Her mother had taken out the loan @ near 20%. Still way better than that 5% a month land deal she entered into with no repayments.

OK, so the only son decides he would like THB 20,000 piggybacking on the collateral that is not mother's in the first place.

I urged my wife to pay off the loan and take the gold. But the bad brother was quicker. With a company loan, he took the gold, then blackmailed my wife into paying him X thousand more than the loan balance. To be honest, I was amazed that she got it back at all!

Things tend to progress from bad to worse. At some point, they are in too deep to repay.

Oh, i forgot the death threats! The only son has been living interest free in a town house built on mother's land. He has sisters but anyone wanting to make a just claim will be threatened. Even little things might trigger death threats (assasination by a 3rd party).

Be very careful to disentangle you while you can.

[atyclb]

Find a wife from an upscale family that is at the same or higher socio-economic status as you. Although not impossible, it is less likely you will become a bigger atm.

[mickg]

If the house is bought and ownership of the house is registered on the Chanote ( can that be done?) in the farangs name and a usufruct is also registered on the chanote, for e.g, a period of 30 years, I had understood that the house is the property of the farang registered owner, which he can sell if he wishes, and he holds a lease of the land on which the house stands,which he can also sell, during the 30 year period. Am I wrong?

[tmd5855]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Have you considered the unpalatable?

What if she dies in an unfortunate accident. Her family inherit all her goods......................what will you do then.

Can you be sure they will not sell it, tell you to leave since they want to move in?

Get legal advise, your appear (To me) to be sailing in uncharted waters, at night without a lookout over coral reefs.

Holed below the waterline, if you are not careful?

[expatman]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Do you have any children ? If so, put it in their name. You should be safe until the kid is 18.

Before then the house/land cannot be sold or mortgaged with court permission, and the permission will not be granted unless the court determines it is in the child's best interest.

[InterestedObserver]

If the house is bought and ownership of the house is registered on the Chanote ( can that be done?) in the farangs name and a usufruct is also registered on the chanote, for e.g, a period of 30 years, I had understood that the house is the property of the farang registered owner, which he can sell if he wishes, and he holds a lease of the land on which the house stands,which he can also sell, during the 30 year period. Am I wrong?

You would be hard pressed, next to impossible, to sell a house registered in your name that is sitting on land owned by somebody else.

Edited September 7, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[Arkady]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Put the house in your name if you can. If you are buying a house already built, then get a usufruct attached to the land title. A bank won't lend against property with a usufruct attached.

This is best answer to the question. The OP wasn't asking for advice on whether he should buy or rent or even be married to a Thai in the first place, as many posters, who probably can't afford to buy a house anyway, seem to imagine.

She will not be able to sell or mortgage the land if the house and/or the land is encumbered. To get the house in your name, you will need a usufruct agreement or a long term lease anyway. Check out Isaan Lawyers (no connection to me) piece on usufructs on their website. It is probably the best account of this obscure type of ownership right which few Thais know anything about. The downside is of course that the land could be freed up by your early demise and this would be not be the first time this has happened in Thailand for a few baht.

Perhaps a lawyer could alternatively get a court to void the usufruct or lease made between man and wife on the grounds she was placed under undue pressure by her husband and didn't understand what she was signing. This is technically possible, if you are already married at the time of the agreement, but it seems a long shot and I have never heard of any cases where this has been done. There are far more cases where the farang is just driven out of the house by intimidation so that the original Thai husband or other family members can move in bringing their pigs and other livestock into your pristine villa.

House ownership/usufruct/long lease should also cover you in the event your wife predeceases you. If you are legally married but have no children together get her to will the land to you to. You would have 12 months to transfer to some one else. If you have Thai children they can own the land but they cannot get planning permission or sell the land without permission from both parents while they are minors. You probably can't also get a usufruct/ long lease issued by children but the land should be transferable to them with the agreement in place, at a cost of more transfer tax. Getting your wife to will the land to your joint children is also an option. They have some rights to her estate under Thaiand's succession laws anyway, even she dies intestate or doesn't leave them anything in her will but, they will be equal to her children by other marriages in that case.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Arkady

[mca]

I'm genuinely not taking the p#ss here but in my humble opinion the simplest thing to do is marry somebody whose family are financially solvent. I've seen so much heartache and marital problems with westerners married to a local concerning money matters and "the family" that if my spouse's family couldn't support themselves I'd never have gotten involved with her. Nearly learned the hard way myself when I arrived in LOS wet behind the ears. Sorry I'm not being at all helpful to the OP and I sincerely hope he sorts it out for peace of mind.

Edited September 8, 2009 by mca

[Rainmon]

"I'm not really into appartment lifestyle."

I guess that you prefer "my wife and her family have stolen everything I have and now I have nothing" lifestyle.

I would never NEVER buy anything and put it in a Thai wife's name. I have heard so many stories about guys loosing houses. I know one guy that lost 3 houses and now is broke living in a 6000 baht a month room and barely getting by on his pension that has been severely devalued with the exchange rate declining against the UK currency. Another guy's wife of 9 years all of sudden booted him for "no reason" after a house was purchased in her name. Another guy had the house bull dozed down after the wife booted him because she wanted to sell it, but she only owned land and he owned the house, so he had it demolished. The list goes on and on. There are a few exceptions, one of my friends owns land and a house with his Thai wife, he sold the house and she transfered the money back to him. But they are close to the same age, she worked a regular job when they met and she really loves him. He helped raise her daughter and have been to together for a long time. But this is the only guy I know that has not been ripped off by a Thai wife. It's just too much of a temptation and who you think is a good lady will give in to her family or her own greed. Plus some of these girls are very good about waiting it out and will put on a good act for YEARS. Personally I would not trust all these loophole agreements to keep the family from mortgaging the house, as we all know, kickbacks and corruption here can change any legal agreement in a heartbeat, things can get lost and confused in translation or there are many other ways foreigners can be taken care of, once there is some big money at stake:

Canadian businessman shot dead in Thailand on 34th birthday

Edited September 9, 2009 by Rainmon

[quiksilva]

Do people truly not bother to meet, and get to know, their prospective in-laws before getting married? Presumably most of us have had the time to do so?

If you cant pick up on the signs of what constitutes a less than reputable person over a reasonable time period, one can only wonder how you managed to get through life without being a victim to every scam in the book?

Also I think its unfair to discriminate purely on the size of the in laws bank accounts. Perhaps those who have not lost their faith in humanity are in the minority, but I have found that there are also good trustworthy people from less fortunate backgrounds out there. But it does take time to get to know them.

That's not to say that some good people can turn bad when money becomes an issue, but I don't think that happens in the majority of cases.

If you have not carried out any 'relationship due diligence', for whatever reason and do have trust issues with your partner or their family, then posters like Arkady and Donx have provided some good practical solutions to protect your interests, but the best advice I can give is don't make substantial commitments with people that you don't know very well in the first place!

[Wonderboy]

If I had known about Thaivisa 6 years ago and had all this good advice the Op is getting (and will probably ignore) - I would never never NEVER have bought land over here by any method.

If you want to own land, then buy in your own country (in my case the UK) and rent over here!!

So true. Looks like OP might be ignoring this thread already. No feedback after the initial posts. Strange this. People come asking for advice, they listen, and then they choose to ignore the advices and do _exactly_ the mistakes they have been warned about. In many cases I think people just are fishing for support for what they sub-consciously have already decided to do.

WB

[Tokay]

If you have problems like that now it means you cannot trust your wife. Why would you buy a house in her name if she does things like that.

I agree.

[puyaidon]

My best friend (US citizen) here in Thailand paid to have a house built in his mother-in-law's name in Chonburi. He has now been married to his wife for over 30 years. While he knows it and the land is in his mother-in-law's name, a problem arouse that the mother-in-law's son might try to grab the house upon her death. About 2-4 years ago. they formed a corporation with the lawyer having a non-voting interest. The corporation was put in my friend's wife's name and the mother's name. If the mother dies, the house immediatedly goes to the daughter and while she is a US citizen now, the house will have to be sold to avoid foreign ownership. This was placed in the corporation articles which was registered with the government. They have to pay for an audit every year which is really nothing as there is no income nor expense. This might be one way to keep her from mortaging the house. It was quickly explained to me but it make sense. Hope it helps in any case.

Edited September 12, 2009 by puyaidon

[kenmackie]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

To buy anything and put it in your Thai wife's name is such a completely bad idea it would probably qualify as lunacy. Even if she is honest as the day is long and loves you unconditionally, her first loyalty may well be to her family when push comes to shove. If the family is a bad lot then it would be a completely loony thing to do, better to just hold out your wallet and say 'help yourself'.

Sorry to say this but the odds against you knowing and loving the one decent person in an otherwise disreputable family are so long you should not take the punt.

Kev

Never a truer word spoken!

Good advice for anyone thinking about buying land in their wife's name.

Well said

Everything you "guys" are saying might be true, but have been married to an "Issan girl " for 30 years, own a very sucsessful restaurant in Canada, a new house in Issan IN MY WIFE'S NAME Mai mee pen ha

[jb5music]

Didn't you watch cartoons when you were a boy?

Wiiiillmaaaaa! (boom) (boom) (boom) (boom)

Wiiiillmaaaaa! (boom) (boom) (boom) (boom)

[christcourt]

Don't let them or the wife have the paper. They can't borrow on something if they do not have the chanote.

Agreed!! Buy a big safe one that's of the push button type and put the Paper's in there so ONLY YOU have the combination to open it.

If you are away for any reason the family can't get to it.

I also agree that her family can't borrrow money on your/wife's assets untill your wife signs an agreement with the bank to pay up.

Something doesn't ring true here as you say they are generous but they borrow money. Becareful they might take a fall and your missus will want you to bail them out to save face.

[walterego]

As it is likely 'your house' (on their land) you can do what you want with it....

a few gas tanks some Petrol for the motorbike a big candle left burning.

Bring the marshmallows.

[GungaDin]

No interest shown by the OP since Aug 22.

Hmmm.

[ppmacready]

If you have problems like that now it means you cannot trust your wife. Why would you buy a house in her name if she does things like that.

You must have more money than sense.

I don't really have any probs now. Just dont want to run into any in the future. I just know during the low season they tend to borrow money against property and cars. They are actually pretty generous.

Your a lucky man, finding that ''special lady''!

[Munted]

Not sure as to the reasoning behind not building and better to rent, Comes a time in your life where your home is your castle. I hate hate renting, you never really feel at home being to scared to place a nail in the wall in case they take your bond money`lol so I can see the attraction in owning but NEVER in anyone else s name unless your building a house with beer money, everything relative of course

You don't need to buy. Rent. Do whatever you need to do to be comfortable. At the most you lose your bond. Tis better than lose your house.

[a2396]

I want to by a house under my wife's name.

The problem is her family have a bad habit of using her (our) assets to borrow money from the bank.

Is there some way I can arrange the ownership so they can't pressure her into mortgaging the house.

Put the house in your name if you can. If you are buying a house already built, then get a usufruct attached to the land title. A bank won't lend against property with a usufruct attached.

Good advice and easy to set up at the local Amphur or if you want to pay more get a local solicitor to do it for you.

I second this as this is the way to go. However, it is very important that the usufruct agreement is correctly worded.

Also your problem here appears not to be your wife's family but your wife as she apparently seems unable to coupe with the demands from her family.

From what I have seen, most of them cannot say no to any and all demands from the family. They seem to be total slaves to them.