House Purchase

[geordie]

I am in the process of buying a house from a developer with my wife (Thai)

Is it possible to have the land in my wifes name and the house registered in my name (i know that i cannot own land in Thailand) then draw up a lease agreement on the land.

If the above cannot be done.

Would it be best to go the company route or buy the house in my daughters name.

Thanks in advance for any information.

[InterestedObserver]

Get land rights (lease, usufruct etc) from the wife and then register the house in your name. Unless your going to set up a 100% legal Thai company, best not to go that route.

Edited August 23, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[geordie]

So what i was thinking is correct.

Pay the house purchase and split the land and house i.e put the land in my wife's name and then register the house in my name with a lease agreement in my name registered on the back of the land title at the land office.

Thanks for the info Interested observer

[geordie]

I was trying to avoid going the company route, seems like to much hassle for me.

[InterestedObserver]

You need to consult a good lawyer to structure an iron clad lease. There are those on this Forum that say a usufruct is better.

[geordie]

I am a little confused about which lease agreement to go for.

I will use a lawyer, maybe Isaan or Sunbelt to draw up the contract.

Thanks again for the usefull infomation you are giving me.

Regards Geordie

[InterestedObserver]

A lease by Thai law can only be registered for 30 years at a time. On the other hand, a usufruct can be for life. As mentioned, you need a good lawyer for all of this. There are pitfalls with either contract.

Edited August 23, 2009 by InterestedObserver

[geordie]

I could go for the usufruct drawn up as you say by a very good lawfirm, but with life time usage. Make a will to leave the house to my daughter. Hopefully that should take care of it.

Thanks again for the info

[InterestedObserver]

As I'm sure your lawyer will explain, any legal agreement concluded between spouses during marriage can be voided at the request of either party, unless the agreement affects a third person. Make certain that any agreement drawn up is iron clad so that it cannot be repudiated at a later date.

[stgrhe]

I am a little confused about which lease agreement to go for.

I will use a lawyer, maybe Isaan or Sunbelt to draw up the contract.

Thanks again for the usefull infomation you are giving me.

Regards Geordie

I would recommend Isaan Lawyers, very good, competent and with reasonable rates.

[geordie]

All noted lads and thanks again for the info.

Regards Geordie

[xylophone]

Following this thread it states what has been said before, which is as I understand it BUT this appeared in the Phuket Gazette yesterday, from the Governor of Phuket, "The law doesn’t allow foreigners to own land and property, except for condos".

Does he mean own land with property, or own land, or own property??

Anything new hapened that I wasn't aware of????

Hopefully I can still own the house I have bought???

[stgrhe]

Following this thread it states what has been said before, which is as I understand it BUT this appeared in the Phuket Gazette yesterday, from the Governor of Phuket, "The law doesn't allow foreigners to own land and property, except for condos".

Does he mean own land with property, or own land, or own property??

Anything new hapened that I wasn't aware of????

Hopefully I can still own the house I have bought???

Foreigner may actually own land legally here in Thailand although under certain specific circumstances such as investing in government bonds, inheritance or though a company that has got approval from the board of investment (BOI).

However, the problem with the comments made such as "The law doesn't allow foreigners to own land and property, except for condos" is that, although it probably was the intent with the law, the same law apply for the large multinational companies that operats in Thailand and who would think Thailand will do anything against them. After all, all these multinationals are in fact nothing but 'nominee' companies.

[seaeagle]

All noted lads and thanks again for the info.

Regards Geordie

Careful, bonny lad, you can't 'will' a usufruct. But it is still your better option, I reckon.

Suggest, at the same time, of doing the land bits and bobs, you ask your lawyer to make out a will for your wife. She should leave all property to you (yes, you can own land by way of inheritance), and if you pop ya clogs at the same time as the missus (both involved in a car crash, for example), then the property is left to the bairn.

This way, the bairn will get it all, and the in=laws will get nowt if you both die at the same time. If you didn't do this, then the in=laws could get 50% of your (your wife's!) estate.

People will tell you that wills can be changed. They can, but you can only do so much.

[chiangmaibruce]

Careful, bonny lad, you can't 'will' a usufruct. But it is still your better option, I reckon.

Alternatively, have a clause in the usufruct empowering you to enter into a lease agreement and then enter into a 30 year lease agreement with your daughter.

Suggest, at the same time, of doing the land bits and bobs, you ask your lawyer to make out a will for your wife. She should leave all property to you (yes, you can own land by way of inheritance), and if you pop ya clogs at the same time as the missus (both involved in a car crash, for example), then the property is left to the bairn.

You should both have Thai wills made, for the reason seaeagle suggested. You cannot own land by inheritance without first seeking and obtaining Ministerial approval to do so. I am not aware of anyone being granted approval in this manner. Otherwise you have a year to dispose of the property to a Thai.

Footnote: Many of these threads ask which is the "best" way. All of these commonly discussed options feature a significant element of risk and uncertainty. They all have different characteristics that make them better or worse options for different people. A good lawyer is needed to explain what is or might be the best fit for you.

Edited August 28, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[chiangmaibruce]

I am in the process of buying a house from a developer with my wife (Thai)

Is it possible to have the land in my wifes name and the house registered in my name (i know that i cannot own land in Thailand) then draw up a lease agreement on the land.

If the above cannot be done. Would it be best to go the company route or buy the house in my daughters name.

1. As others have stated (in other TV threads), it is difficult or even impossible to separate a land and (pre-existing at the time of purchase) house. The preferred route being to buy the land then build the house - obtaining the building permit and then registering it in your name at that time

2. As others have stated, both a lease or usufruct between your self and your wife could potentially be set aside at a later date (this is the subject of legal debate). Perhaps (and only perhaps) an alternative is to structure the deal so that the developer enters into the usufruct or lease with you and then sell the land to your wife. Also search out a very recent thread/s on leasing property from your thai wife

3. As others have stated, scrap the company route unless you have a legitimate reason for operating a thai company (and subject to other provisos)

4. The property in the name of a minor child is worth exploring but there are possible negatives there. Search out earlier TV threads on this issue ... one was running only a few weeks ago

[seaeagle]

Careful, bonny lad, you can't 'will' a usufruct. But it is still your better option, I reckon.

Alternatively, have a clause in the usufruct empowering you to enter into a lease agreement and then enter into a 30 year lease agreement with your daughter.

Suggest, at the same time, of doing the land bits and bobs, you ask your lawyer to make out a will for your wife. She should leave all property to you (yes, you can own land by way of inheritance), and if you pop ya clogs at the same time as the missus (both involved in a car crash, for example), then the property is left to the bairn.

You should both have Thai wills made, for the reason seaeagle suggested. You cannot own land by inheritance without first seeking and obtaining Ministerial approval to do so. I am not aware of anyone being granted approval in this manner. Otherwise you have a year to dispose of the property to a Thai.

Footnote: Many of these threads ask which is the "best" way. All of these commonly discussed options feature a significant element of risk and uncertainty. They all have different characteristics that make them better or worse options for different people. A good lawyer is needed to explain what is or might be the best fit for you.

Thanks for the additional points, chiangmaibruce. I'm no expert, but I do shudder when it is mentioned putting this, that and the other in the child's name. If you can assist the poster (and me!) I'd be grateful...................

I understand it as.........

Property in a childs name doesn't become like a joint bank account, ie '2 parents to sign' and everything hunky-dory. No, the legals rest with the child - full stop. If a parent wants to do anything with a property asset 'given over' to a child, then the Child Court will decide what is in the best interests of, guess who, the child. Simply the parents wanting to cash-in isn't necessarily in the interests of the child, the one who has the legal standing on the property.

So, in this case here, I'm worried about the implications of giving a lease to a child. Could the usufructuary and freeholder get out of it, with the court seeing that it was in the childs interest?

Just to progress down a line of eventualities above.........wife dies, and property willed to you. You get title - okay. If you don't, you have 12 months to dispose of it. Best option would be to transfer into childs name, as long as child is Thai citizen of course, then you're comfortable. If you then want to sell it, the Child Court would come into play. Again, would it be in the best interests of the child to sell? Maybe not, but you'd need to be 'creative', saying something like, Mum dead, Dad and child all alone in Thailand, want to move back to wherever. Now, that would probably be agreed to be in the childs interests.

Feelings chianmaibruce, or anyone else?

[geordie]

Isaan lawyers have just informed me that the land can be split, land in my wifes name, house in my name. I would only own 50% of the house as i am married so it is common property 50-50% in case of a divorce, which i already new about. we would then draw up a usufruct for the land.

I could put the house and land in childs name and have a usufruct but that would have to be decided by a child court and hard to do if the child is under 7 years of age. Every land office has there own rules.

Thanks for all the replies anyway.

Geordie

[stgrhe]

Isaan lawyers have just informed me that the land can be split, land in my wifes name, house in my name. I would only own 50% of the house as i am married so it is common property 50-50% in case of a divorce, which i already new about. we would then draw up a usufruct for the land.

I could put the house and land in childs name and have a usufruct but that would have to be decided by a child court and hard to do if the child is under 7 years of age. Every land office has there own rules.

Thanks for all the replies anyway.

Geordie

That is what I did too and I also used Isaan Lawyers. I chose Isaan Lawyers after having been in contact with five law firms.

[chiangmaibruce]

Thanks for the additional points, chiangmaibruce. I'm no expert, but I do shudder when it is mentioned putting this, that and the other in the child's name. If you can assist the poster (and me!) I'd be grateful...................

I understand it as.........

Property in a childs name doesn't become like a joint bank account, ie '2 parents to sign' and everything hunky-dory. No, the legals rest with the child - full stop. If a parent wants to do anything with a property asset 'given over' to a child, then the Child Court will decide what is in the best interests of, guess who, the child. Simply the parents wanting to cash-in isn't necessarily in the interests of the child, the one who has the legal standing on the property.

So, in this case here, I'm worried about the implications of giving a lease to a child. Could the usufructuary and freeholder get out of it, with the court seeing that it was in the childs interest?

Just to progress down a line of eventualities above.........wife dies, and property willed to you. You get title - okay. If you don't, you have 12 months to dispose of it. Best option would be to transfer into childs name, as long as child is Thai citizen of course, then you're comfortable. If you then want to sell it, the Child Court would come into play. Again, would it be in the best interests of the child to sell? Maybe not, but you'd need to be 'creative', saying something like, Mum dead, Dad and child all alone in Thailand, want to move back to wherever. Now, that would probably be agreed to be in the childs interests.

Have a look at the latest "buying property in the name of a minor" thread ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Purchasing-L...en-t283530.html

With regards to your questions:

Some land dept offices simply won't register a usufruct or lease or transaction with a child. Even when they do, there must be a basis for a later legal challenge if the child is too young to understand the nature of the dealing. Even when registered (without effective oversight) a naughty spouse could probably manufacture a situation whereby the sale of the property could be argued to be in the "best interest of the child". On the one hand you wouldn't want it to be too easy (to convince the judge) but on the other hand you wouldn't want it too tough when there were legitimate reasons to liquidate the asset.