Thailand Set To Be Asian Education Hub

[toptuan]

Unfortunately, Thais with their bachelor degrees earned in Thailand are having to re-take it in Australia when they try to enter master's programs in that country. And Thailand wants to bring international students HERE?

In seven years, this is about the 12th "hub" I've lived through.

My first year here, Thailand announced that it would become the "fashion hub" of Asia. The poor vocational college I worked for immediately canceled all classes for a week, while we endured days and nights of seemingly endless fashion shows with 80% of the teachers and students alike doing the catwalk to heavy metal and techno music. I was asked to participate, but could not imagine how I could inspire anyone with my bifocals, middle-aged balding pate and paunch belly. I, ahem, demurely declined.

In the process, untold hundreds of thousands of baht were diverted from textbook funds and student scholarships to fund the extravaganza. The following weeks, teachers had to pay for copying their own handouts because the school had run out of funds for copying class materials. Such misguided enthusiasm. All form with little substance.

Experience tells me that everything reverts back to status quo within a few years. Sometimes within months.

If all the previously-announced hubs really had came to fruition, Thailand would now be the center of the universe. Sorry, don't mean to upset anyone's world view, here.

Frankly, I'd be ecstatic just to get back to the basics of education (...and an elected stable government, police protection, clean water, traffic safety, etc.,etc.)

Edited August 24, 2009 by toptuan

[Artisi]

Education hub- what a joke they can't even get the date correct - it's not even close to April 1st at the moment.

[Ijustwannateach]

In terms of reputation and English, Singapore's universities are really winning the regional battle. Thailand will be fighting for a share of what's left after Singapore's full.

Japan is behind in terms of English but way ahead in terms of subject matter, etc.

Thailand simply doesn't have the excess capacity of English-speaking expertise necessary, either..

The fact is even Ramkhamhaeng has some courses with 50% international students. There IS demand, there IS capacity, there IS a chance of becoming a hub.

What should be government response be? "fuc_k those students. We will NOT help them, we will NOT help our universities because of endless rants on Thaivisa. We DON'T stand a chance. Go back where you come from, you are NOT welcome to study here."

Maybe they get dregs who couldn't get a place in Singapore, but they'll get them. I also don't think Singapore has any excess capacity itself, Thailand maybe already ahead of them in providing infrastructure and facilities to support practically unlimited number of foreign students. Thais could replicate the success of "medical hub" policies, I don't see the problem. It's already working.

There's someone ranting around here somewhere, but I don't think it's me....

Your stat's aren't that impressive. 50% could mean 4 out of 8 students are international- in some courses. I don't think national statistics support your view that Thailand is [apparently] "already" becoming a hub of education.

If oodles of international students suddenly make a practice of coming here, I think it would help the Thai students out quite a lot (by providing competition and accountability through example not supplied by the present system). I'm all for it; I just don't think it'll happen- and if they do come, if it's to a system as set up presently, I don't think they'll get their money's worth. Either way, they'll probably vote with their feet, so time will tell and all that jazz.

[geriatrickid]

Excluding Chula & Thama, take a closer look at the foreign "professors". They are graduates of schools that are euphemistically called the D list dumps. On a good day some of them might make it to the C list. Back in their homelands, if hired, I believe these profs would most likely be relegated to instructor positions and certainly would not be sought out by the better universities. If I was a grad student I wouldn't waste my money at a school that hired what I considered to be marginal instructors.

Just because someone has a doctorate doesn't mean they are a good teacher or even competent. True, some good people do come out of the lower end western facilities, but they rarely end up as instructors at low end foreign schools.

There is a serious shortage of qualified instructors in the western system now. The good ones and even the marginal ones are being snapped up in the west. True, they no longer get the easy tenure that was prevalent back in the 80's, but there is fierce competition for the good quality. Some of the top tier universities in North America are downright nasty as they raid other

to poach top professors, luring them with research grants, fully equipped labs and promises of R&D income sharing. A good university in the west will offer a better pay and benefits package than found in Thailand. I would also think the working conditions and atmosphere would be more hospitable.

Maybe some truth in advertising is needed? Thailand, a hub for the students not qualified to get into a good university. The students that are top notch will qualify for international grants and bursaries. Western schools and governments spend hundreds of millions of dollars/euros helping qualified foreign students. It's both a mix a foreign aid and a way for schools to show that they are contributing to society. As well, it is intended to attract talent: The infamous brain drain.

Outside of Thai specific courses (e.g. history, language), unless one is living in Thailand and plans to work in Thailand for the rest of his or her life, a diploma from a Thai university is a waste money and time. You can get more from self study.

Edited August 24, 2009 by geriatrickid

[marquess]

Excluding Chula & Thama, take a closer look at the foreign "professors". They are graduates of schools that are euphemistically called the D list dumps. On a good day some of them might make it to the C list. Back in their homelands, if hired, I believe these profs would most likely be relegated to instructor positions and certainly would not be sought out by the better universities. If I was a grad student I wouldn't waste my money at a school that hired what I considered to be marginal instructors.

Just because someone has a doctorate doesn't mean they are a good teacher or even competent. True, some good people do come out of the lower end western facilities, but they rarely end up as instructors at low end foreign schools.

There is a serious shortage of qualified instructors in the western system now. The good ones and even the marginal ones are being snapped up in the west. True, they no longer get the easy tenure that was prevalent back in the 80's, but there is fierce competition for the good quality. Some of the top tier universities in North America are downright nasty as they raid other

to poach top professors, luring them with research grants, fully equipped labs and promises of R&D income sharing. A good university in the west will offer a better pay and benefits package than found in Thailand. I would also think the working conditions and atmosphere would be more hospitable.

Maybe some truth in advertising is needed? Thailand, a hub for the students not qualified to get into a good university. The students that are top notch will qualify for international grants and bursaries. Western schools and governments spend hundreds of millions of dollars/euros helping qualified foreign students. It's both a mix a foreign aid and a way for schools to show that they are contributing to society. As well, it is intended to attract talent: The infamous brain drain.

Outside of Thai specific courses (e.g. history, language), unless one is living in Thailand and plans to work in Thailand for the rest of his or her life, a diploma from a Thai university is a waste money and time. You can get more from self study.

Well at ABAC at least in the Phil dept they have some good profs and I dare say in other depts too, but they just don't pay very well. Though the fees that students have to pay seem to be relatively hight when compared to other Thai unis. Degrees taken at ABAC are recognised overseas as it is an international university. Though as stated earlier Thailand will never really truly appeal to the international student as the employment opportunities are virtually non-existent upon graduation in comparison with some Western countries.

[Crushdepth]

Do the official press releases actually use whatever the Thai word for 'hub' is? Or is the term gleefully inserted by Thai journalists to annoy the government?

It's getting monotonous...

[Bagwan]

I wonder how many would want to come to LoS to study and thereby be told what to wear, and being castigated or disciplined if one's appearance didn't meet with phu yai approval. I think that my reaction would be that if I wanted to wear a uniform then I'd have joined one of the Services or BiB.

The only hubs in Thailand that work are those that realistic heads spin around.

[skiman1]

Ministry plans exhibition to push 'education foreigners'

BANGKOK: -- In response to the government's policy to promote Thailand as an international education centre, the Commerce Ministry is preparing to lure more foreign students by organising an annual international education exhibition.

The government has set a goal to transform the country to be the Asian region's education hub by next year, according to Rachane Potjanasuntorn, director-general of the ministry's Department of Export Promotion.

The Thailand International Education Exhibition (TIEE) 2009 will be held between October 9 and 11 at Queen Sirikit National Convention Centre.

"The department has played a key role in promoting international education business in Thailand ...to be accepted among target groups local and aboard. It has been organising TIEE to invite more international students to further their studies in Thailand. Visitors from 37 countries visited TIEE 2008," Rachane said.

This year's exhibition will be held under the concept of 'Asia's Hub of International Education' and it's expected there will be at least 12,000 visitors, both local and aboard.

Full details international education in Thailand will be provided at TIEE 2009. Leading international academic institutions nationwide will be at the exhibition venue to give information about studying at their institutions.

-- The Nation 2009-08-24

I was needing a funny story to cheer me up - thanks

[GungaDin]

The only real hub in Thailand, is on my bicycle.

[Bagwan]

The only real hub in Thailand, is on my bicycle.

But hubbub is heard everywhere, especially in Parliament. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Hubba Hubba is heard in nearly every 'tourist attraction.'

[007]

Ministry plans exhibition to push 'education foreigners'

BANGKOK: -- In response to the government's policy to promote Thailand as an international education centre ...

-- The Nation 2009-08-24

[Thai at Heart]

Ministry plans exhibition to push 'education foreigners'

BANGKOK: -- In response to the government's policy to promote Thailand as an international education centre ...

-- The Nation 2009-08-24

Isn't grammar a wonderful thing.

To where are they pushing these foreigners? To distraction?

[Publicus]

When I was the farang on the Faculty of Education at Chulalongkorn University only 48% of all faculty at the university had the terminal degree (doctorate). The percentage now is closer to 60%, but the Thai faculty continue only to yap at students who sit before their 'profs' bored and interminably lectured to. If Chula is the ultimate and the hub of education in Thailand, then pity Thailand .

Several surveys have been cited in this thread ranking Thai universities.

Regardless of which survey one cites, the fact remains that in East Asia and globally Thailand lags profoundly and distantly behind universities in Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and even several universities in closed minded PRChina. PRChina already has several universities that in every ranking survey are well ahead of any university in LOS. In fact PRChina is busy establishing three designated universities to become equally world class education centers within the next ten years, so clearly this Thai Hub clap-trap sounds like another LOS publicty stunt to try to give the impression Thailand is advancing in education, when we know that is a roaring joke .

Japan is offering graduate students from abroad 2/3rd off their second year tuition and fees, and any year thereafter, to encourage promising minds to research, study and advance their minds in Japan. Reduced costs of education abroad is a serious gesture that I don't see Thailand making. I don't see Thailand being serious at all, in any respect, regarding education. Not in the past, present or in the future.

Further, how many Thais who are grads of Thai universities can be accepted to graduate level courses in Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan or Singapore etc? I spent ten years in the classroom in Thailand and I don't know of one such Thai. An undergrad degree from a university in Thailand is the equivalent of toilet tissue.

This is another Thai joke.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Publicus

[Plus]

There's someone ranting around here somewhere, but I don't think it's me....

Your stat's aren't that impressive. 50% could mean 4 out of 8 students are international- in some courses. I don't think national statistics support your view that Thailand is [apparently] "already" becoming a hub of education.

If oodles of international students suddenly make a practice of coming here, I think it would help the Thai students out quite a lot (by providing competition and accountability through example not supplied by the present system). I'm all for it; I just don't think it'll happen- and if they do come, if it's to a system as set up presently, I don't think they'll get their money's worth. Either way, they'll probably vote with their feet, so time will tell and all that jazz.

Swear to god, I can't stand another post about how Thai education system sucks. Maybe it wasn't you, but it surely looks like an endless supply of whiners here. All they do is complain, complain and complain. For years, non-stop.

>>>

I don't think Thailand compiles national statistics about foreign student enrollment, maybe at Immigration Dept (student visas), but those stories have been appearing in the press for years. I don't see what to argue about here - they say they HAVE enough international students to promote the "hub" policy. You say they don't. It's your word against theirs.

[Publicus]

'They' are BS artists, however transparent. The fact is well known. Certainly on this planet.

[TAWP]

A note, yes there are many 'international' students in some classes, but many of them live here not by choice as 'picking a school here' but 'parents work here' etc.

Just an observation from knowing a lot of foreign students.

[BSJ]

You lot are a bunch of doubting Thomas's and Weeny Whinners!

Of course it is real, the new education hub is right up there with all the other hubs.

Don't believe me? Checkout the picture!

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

[Plus]

A note, yes there are many 'international' students in some classes, but many of them live here not by choice as 'picking a school here' but 'parents work here' etc.

A valid reason, but I don't think it really applies to university students.

[Ijustwannateach]

There's someone ranting around here somewhere, but I don't think it's me....

Your stat's aren't that impressive. 50% could mean 4 out of 8 students are international- in some courses. I don't think national statistics support your view that Thailand is [apparently] "already" becoming a hub of education.

If oodles of international students suddenly make a practice of coming here, I think it would help the Thai students out quite a lot (by providing competition and accountability through example not supplied by the present system). I'm all for it; I just don't think it'll happen- and if they do come, if it's to a system as set up presently, I don't think they'll get their money's worth. Either way, they'll probably vote with their feet, so time will tell and all that jazz.

Swear to god, I can't stand another post about how Thai education system sucks.

>>>

I don't think Thailand compiles national statistics about foreign student enrollment, maybe at Immigration Dept (student visas), but those stories have been appearing in the press for years. I don't see what to argue about here - they say they HAVE enough international students to promote the "hub" policy. You say they don't. It's your word against theirs.

Actually, I have a bit more familiarity with the situation on the ground than you seem to give me credit for, and you're the one disputing me (not the ministry)... have worked in public & private schools & unis here nearly a decade, etc., etc. Enough about me, though.

Look at the other news thread just posted on this topic- they want 10 'international' students each at 14 established public high schools where they will start EP programs, and then charge them somewhat more for the privilege. Does that sound 'hublike?'

I seriously doubt that Thai teachers on the ground at those schools will have the English-speaking level to teach the requisite subjects properly (let them be ever so good in their own fields). I even more seriously doubt that foreign teachers of commensurate quality can be located and hired in sufficient numbers even if all the money charged goes directly to them (an unlikely strategy in any case). This has nothing to do with the quality of the Thai system itself- it has to do with the unpreparedness of this (or maybe any) school system to run a parallel system in a second language without making some seriously big investments in staff (and charging fees in concordance).

It is unfortunate that the end result of this poor administrative approach is likely to be blamed by its victims on the Thai school system, even though the responsibility should be more properly placed at the door of poor administrative and financial planning.

[hammered]

As I posted on the other thread (we seem to get many multiple threads) if done properly with proper planning and over time it is a good idea. However, as I posted there too I dont hold out much hope as the Thai education system needs a right sorting out.

[tamsom]

Obviously, the title is ill-suited to the proposed subject matter. I would like the so-called educators to come forward and name 38 countries in Asia. They have no concept of geography, coupled with the lack of travel to even any of the South-east Asian countries(10). What about Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia. Lebanon, Khazistan, Afghanistan?...etc., etc. etc. They have no idea where Asia is!

[TAWP]

A note, yes there are many 'international' students in some classes, but many of them live here not by choice as 'picking a school here' but 'parents work here' etc.

A valid reason, but I don't think it really applies to university students.

I was only referring to university students.

[toptuan]

An undergrad degree from a university in Thailand is the equivalent of toilet tissue.

Would that be new or second-hand TT?

[chrislarsson]

A note, yes there are many 'international' students in some classes, but many of them live here not by choice as 'picking a school here' but 'parents work here' etc.

Just an observation from knowing a lot of foreign students.

And many of them are here by choice too. But I don't think many Western students come here to do full degrees. Most of them are here for one semester exchange programs only.

[Scott]

Most places attract students because they are known for providing good educational opportunities. In this case, it's a gov't money making scheme to generate income by selling less than stellar educational opportunities.

I think they put the cart before the buffalo.

[PeaceBlondie]

jbowman at Mahidol's music faculty has cited several examples of their BMus graduates going on to the best graduate programs in the USA (Julliard, Eastman). I know a demonstration school in Thailand whose students went on to excellent schools, but these are exceptions.

[Plus]

There's only one "factual" input in this thread - the original article, and almost everyone in unison denies its validity without providing any facts to support their opposition.

What is wrong with you, guys?

Every now and then there are reports of Thai kids winning international competitions in all kinds of fields. Not long ago I think they won even some debating competition. Quick check found that there are 350 international programs offered here (university level), I don't know how many international students they have, but there are all sorts of partnerships with regional universitities. I don't know if inter students come here for one semester or a for full courses, but they obviously DO come.

Is it a money making scheme? Sure it is, among other things. Ddidn't local universities pushed for independence a few years ago? Will they lose their reputation by offering substandard courses, and the international students will stop coming? Possibly, but shouldn't it be part of govt "hub" policy to ensure quality?

What else do you suppose the govt should do about those international students?

I have absolutely no idea why people here oppose this policy.

[jasreeve17]

I work at two of the top universities in Thailand.

The vast majority of Thai lecturers I work with have sent their children to study abroad.

I've spoken to two who haven't; they wanted to, but couldn't afford to...

[Ijustwannateach]

Plus, as I previously mentioned, I know a little something about education in Thailand. I may even know a little something about the students who win those competitions and their schools. Let's just say that the schools they're talking about making 'hub' schools will not be those schools.

Furthermore, I don't see anyone here except you suggesting that any students who wish to come to Thailand should be turned away. They are fortunately few enough that there is no capacity problem at the moment, especially at the university level (which is tuition-driven, anyway). What the government is trying to do is encourage *more* students to come than are already here, and as a pretty experienced person in this area I say that the situation on the ground doesn't support it (especially if the model is the one suggested in the parallel thread about 'putting new [and undeveloped] EP programs in public high schools [with largely homogeneous Thai student and staff populations] to attract expat kids from neighboring countries [who will somehow survive here- where?].' Poorly-thought-out and unsupported hardly begin to describe that programme.

Also, having some personal experience with the 'international expat student' crowd here, they're all going elsewhere for college, if that's any indication...

I would prefer to see less inflammatory commentary from you about other posters on this thread, and I have helpfully removed it from all your previous posts here without further inconvenience to you. Hope you get the message; this is the last hint.

[animatic]

jbowman at Mahidol's music faculty has cited several examples of their BMus graduates going on to the best graduate programs in the USA (Julliard, Eastman). I know a demonstration school in Thailand whose students went on to excellent schools, but these are exceptions.

Yes exceptions. And their 'americanization' and escape from mai pben rai

is instrumental in their progress and development.

The Thai musical culture, as observed so far, is excelent at rote repetive study

and many are in effect very, very fine copyists, which DOES work quite well for

the classical musical world, short of the highest levels.

In the jazz world in spite of the excellent influence of HRM,

there is more lovely copy work and less well considered improvisation from the heart.

Though I did enjoy working with a very fine pianist this week, who is a local professor too.

I did just hear that HRM did play his clarinet this last week with a band.

That is excellent news for sure, vis a vis health and vitality.

There are also far more rock bands hacking the same things perfectly, yet endlessly

re-making existing trends with Thai words, and FEW true innovators.

Not to say there are not well versed and studied iconoclasts who truly 'hoe a different and unique row'.

There is none the less a vibrant musical world here.

Having worked with several Julliard grads and professors I understand what they expect in a foreign student.

They expect to fill many 1st and 2nd chairs around the world and increase the quality of orchestras,

but generally do not expect, but pray for, the next Midori, or Sophie Mutter to appear at their door.

I have had the pleasure of working with Yitzak Perlman and Issac Stern, Vance George, William Wolfram,

and regularly with a student of Leonard Bernstein and Georges Solti...

So I suspect i have a clue.