Riot Audio Tape Doctored : Pm

[SHYTALK]

Red shirts - " lets doctor an audio tape "

yellow shirts - " lets have another coup "

[t1401]

'Doctored clip came from SC Asset'

By The Nation

Published on August 29, 2009

ICT Ministry probe shows traces of editing in three-minute electronic file

The doctored audio clip related to the Songkran mayhem has its origin at SC Asset, a property development company run by Yingluk Shinawatra, sister of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, Democrat Party spokesman Buranaj Smutharaks said yesterday.

Yingluck is an active supporter of the Pheu Thai Party.

The doctored clip was sent from the company to the Pheu Thai's public relations and information technology office before being distributed to about 30 reporters on the politics beat and circulated on the Internet, Buranaj said.

The clip, in circulation since Tuesday, was designed to smear Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, Buranaj said.

The timing of the clip's release appeared to have an ulterior motive to rouse the crowds ahead of tomorrow's rally by the red shirts, he said.

Abhisit yesterday confronted a Pheu Thai Party MP, Somchai Phetpraset, over the audio clip. He caught Somchai off-guard when he asked the MP from whom he had received the clip.

Somchai met the prime minister to submit a letter to complain about alleged corruption in an Army purchase project.

"It's good to meet you here. Some said the audio clip came from you. Where did you get it?" Abhisit asked.

Somchai appeared stunned and scrambled to deny any knowledge about it: "It wasn't me. I knew nothing."

"Really! You knew nothing, really?" Abhisit shot back.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Information and Communications Technology said yesterday that an examination of the audio clip in question discovered traces of editing in the three-minute-long electronic file.

Sue Lo-utai, permanent secretary of the ICT Ministry, said that experts from the media company, Kantana, were asked to analyse the clip and they found that at least 16 points covering 80 per cent of the file were altered.

ICT Minister Ranongruk Suwanchawee confirmed yesterday that the audio clip was doctored, citing findings by Kantana.

She said that it was an offence against the Computer Crime Act to spread the file through the Internet, adding that the violator would face an imprisonment of up to five years and a maximum fine of Bt100,000.

[t1401]

Thaksin: I have never bullied anybody

Writer: BangkokPost.com

Published: 28/08/2009 at 03:16 PM

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has asked for sympathy from the general public following speculation he was behind the controversial ''edited'' audio clip circulated by Puea Thai.

The sound clip contains the voice of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva ordering the use of force against red-shirt anti-government demonstrators over Songkran.

“I have never bullied anybody in my life. It’s me who was bullied.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...bullied-anybody

[mca]

Why couldn't you just wait to see the evidence from the Dems' side first before jumping to your foregone conclusion that the pro-democracy peace-loving non-Thaksin related Red angels would never ever do this?

Looks like you've jumped to a few foregone conclusions yourself there.

[brahmburgers]

"I have never bullied anybody in my life. It's me who was bullied.

Who mentioned bullying to begin with?

Does T have the mentality of a 5 year old pre-schooler, or what?

I would say 'the mentality of a 6 year old...', but I know 6 year old kids who think things through a wee bit before they spout off their mouths.

Maybe T hasn't bullied anyone, but he's slapped 'defamation of character' lawsuits on a host of people, and he's been responsible (directly or indirectly) for dozens of mysterious deaths, not least the Muslim attorney.

[Plus]

Why couldn't you just wait to see the evidence from the Dems' side first before jumping to your foregone conclusion that the pro-democracy peace-loving non-Thaksin related Red angels would never ever do this?

Because the Democrats can say a lot. The issue will be decided in a court of law...

I doubt Dems will go all the way through the court of law, though they certainly making loud noises about that.

I don't understand why posters on this board have to wait for the court decision to form their opinions about origins of this hoax. And I certainly don't understand why Abhisit needs a ruling from the court of law to prove whether he said something or not.

Why don't you apply that same standard to your own posts?

Until it is proven in the court law you can't say that elites or Prem or whoever else was behind the coup. PAD didn't occupy the airport until proven in the court of law, and it wasn't PAD guards in that videoclip of Phahonyothin shooting unless the court says so.

>>>>

Reds wanted to make the accusations public to damage Abhisit, perhaps hoping that by the time the truth will come out the rumor will be spread far and wide already. Abhisit, on the other hand, can put up SC Asset connection for everyone to see. It's on news talk shows as I type this already. Who cares if Kantana's conclusion is not legally binding on anyone.

For non-red Thailand - another nail in red coffin, for the reds - there's a chance that some of them will be offended by their leaders trying to fool them. Not sure about that, though - all the doubting infidels must have cleared out of that camp already. The rest will only strengthen their believe in Abhisit's evil.

What a cynical, red way to manipulate weak human nature!

[brahmburgers]

Reds wanted to make the accusations public to damage Abhisit, perhaps hoping that by the time the truth will come out the rumor will be spread far and wide already.

So true. There's a large mass of Thais who still look to T as saviour (because they got, or were promised money via his programs as PM). Most are not 'dyed in the wool' Red Shirts, but they may come over to the Reds if such accusations stick - at least that's the hope of Red Shirt leaders and T himself. It's a battle of 'hearts and minds' - though there's more 'hearts' than 'minds' in the equation.

Broadcasting the audio to the thinking-challenged masses, is like floating a malicious rumor. If the accusation is shown to be fabricated later on, it doesn't much matter, as the idea of the misdeed is what sticks in peoples' minds. It's the same if someone were to accuse another of being a pervert (as Malaysia's Mahathir had been doing against his main political rival, several years ago). The accusations were shown to be false, but the riveting images stuck in peoples' minds nevertheless - so it served its purpose.

In this morning's Nation, it was reported that Abhisit directly challenged the Peu Thai political leader to say where the audio came from. The PT guy was flustered, not having previously seen the PM act so dynamically. I encourage the PM to grab hold and sustain that sort of dynamism, because he'll need it to weather the storms that are going to keep coming from the political opposition.

Abhisit and his inner circle should make hay with this doctored audio thing. In other words, they should broadcast and milk it as much as possible - because it is fast becoming a problem for the Red Shirts. Although it may appear a relatively small issue for most political observers, ...if it can be proven to the masses that the Red Shirt leadership blatantly doctored and publicized an audio for nefarious purposes, then it could turn the tide of political sentiment in favor of the Dems.

Edited August 29, 2009 by brahmburgers

[webfact]

Reds wanted to make the accusations public to damage Abhisit, perhaps hoping that by the time the truth will come out the rumor will be spread far and wide already.

So true. There's a large mass of Thais who still look to T as saviour (because they got, or were promised money via his programs as PM). Most are not 'dyed in the wool' Red Shirts, but they may come over to the Reds if such accusations stick - at least that's the hope of Red Shirt leaders and T himself. It's a battle of 'hearts and minds' - though there's more 'hearts' than 'minds' in the equation.

Broadcasting the audio to the thinking-challenged masses, is like floating a malicious rumor. If the accusation is shown to be fabricated later on, it doesn't much matter, as the idea of the misdeed is what sticks in peoples' minds. It's the same if someone were to accuse another of being a pervert (as Malaysia's Mahathir had been doing against his main political rival, several years ago). The accusations were shown to be false, but the riveting images stuck in peoples' minds nevertheless - so it served its purpose.

In this morning's Nation, it was reported that Abhisit directly challenged the Peu Thai political leader to say where the audio came from. The PT guy was flustered, not having previously seen the PM act so dynamically. I encourage the PM to grab hold and sustain that sort of dynamism, because he'll need it to weather the storms that are going to keep coming from the political opposition.

Abhisit and his inner circle should make hay with this doctored audio thing. In other words, they should broadcast and milk it as much as possible - because it is fast becoming a problem for the Red Shirts. Although it may appear a relatively small issue for most political observers, ...if it can be proven to the masses that the Red Shirt leadership blatantly doctored and publicized an audio for nefarious purposes, then it could turn the tide of political sentiment in favor of the Dems.

very well said!!!

[mca]

if it can be proven to the masses that the Red Shirt leadership blatantly doctored and publicized an audio for nefarious purposes, then it could turn the tide of political sentiment in favor of the Dems.

IMHO it'd take a lot more than that for the people who consider themselves disenfranchised by the current government to jump on the Democrat bandwagon. Not being a fan of the Democrats doesn't make a person a Red Shirt.

[animatic]

Red shirts - " lets doctor an audio tape "

yellow shirts - " lets have another coup "

Hyperbole.

[animatic]

Thaksin: I have never bullied anybody

Writer: BangkokPost.com

Published: 28/08/2009 at 03:16 PM

Fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has asked for sympathy from the general public following speculation he was behind the controversial ''edited'' audio clip circulated by Puea Thai.

The sound clip contains the voice of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva ordering the use of force against red-shirt anti-government demonstrators over Songkran.

“I have never bullied anybody in my life. It’s me who was bullied.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...bullied-anybody

Tell that to the American Cable Video investor/systems integrator who got massively reamed by Thaksin,

including getting put in jail, so Thaksin could steel his shares and set up labors, for Shin's video branch.

Sondhi might ALSO have something to say about Thaksin's Business Bully tactics,

from when they were business partners back in the day... Yeah they were partners once.

His own employees: Shipping Moo.

The list is effectively endless.

Edited August 29, 2009 by animatic

[animatic]

if it can be proven to the masses that the Red Shirt leadership blatantly doctored and publicized an audio for nefarious purposes, then it could turn the tide of political sentiment in favor of the Dems.

IMHO it'd take a lot more than that for the people who consider themselves disenfranchised by the current government to jump on the Democrat bandwagon. Not being a fan of the Democrats doesn't make a person a Red Shirt.

Except they are not actually disenfranchised, their have elected MP's from their districts in the legislature.

They're region still gets it's vote. If it is PTP voting for them, well they get what they asked for: foolishness.

You can bet Buri Ram is getting services from Newin's crew regardless of what camp they are in now.

This Doctored audio tape issue may be good to drive a, long needed, wedge between the people,

and those manipulators who have TOLD them repeatedly that they are disenfranchised.

I read the RedNews everyday, and I believe it all the way.

It maybe enough to sow some 'reasonable doubt' about these prevaricating propagandists.

'Look folks your leaders are not telling you the REAL truth... what else have they been lying about?'

Of course the love blinded true believers, like K, will still brand any dissenting line blasphemy.

A cult is still a mind control device for power, and the closer to the inner circle,

the tighter the mental strictures applied. But peeling off layer upon layer of less reddened minds

can reduce the available bodies for slaughter, and that can't be bad.

[hammered]

Obviously the file if a construct. There does now seem to also be an electronic trail.

Personally I wont jump to conclusions but this is getting interesting. A sloppy error leading to being found out, an extremely well organised operation by a competitor of the red shirts or linked to internal red shirt divisions.

As this conflcit has become belief based and has been for ages it is going to come down to what people believe, but if there is a forensic computer trail it is going to be damaging to those it emanated from.

[frodo]

Gen Chaisit: Yingluck knows nothing about PM's clip

Former army chief Gen Chaisit Shinawatra reiterated on Saturday that Yingluck Shinawatra, younger sister of former Prime minister Thaksin, had noting to do with the controversial clip.

The democrats, including the spokesman of the ruling party, Thepthai Senpong, alleged on Friday that the audio clip featuring Prime Mnister Abhisit Vejjajiva's voice ordering the use of force to crackdown on the red shirts over Songkran was released from SC Asset Co, a company owned by Ms Yingluck.

"The democrats have an expertise in mudslinging other people to whitewash themselves. They tend to throw hot potato to the Shinawatra family every time when any wrong thing occurs", Gen Chaisit said.

The retired senior general dared the Democrats to show evidence to the general public to prove that members of the Shinawatra family were behind the audio clip.

Bangkok Post

If it can be proven that the clip originated from SC Asset Co, then Yingluck should be held responsible. Whether or not I agree or disagree with the cyber laws here is not the issue. Other webmasters have had to suffer the consequences of hosting a website where members have posted porn, and they were held 100% responsible. If it is true, Yingluck is no exception. To be fair, the democrats have made the accusation and must follow through as well.

[brahmburgers]

Gen Chaisit: Yingluck knows nothing about PM's clip

Former army chief Gen Chaisit Shinawatra reiterated on Saturday that Yingluck Shinawatra, younger sister of former Prime minister Thaksin, had noting to do with the controversial clip.

The democrats, including the spokesman of the ruling party, Thepthai Senpong, alleged on Friday that the audio clip featuring Prime Mnister Abhisit Vejjajiva's voice ordering the use of force to crackdown on the red shirts over Songkran was released from SC Asset Co, a company owned by Ms Yingluck.

"The democrats have an expertise in mudslinging other people to whitewash themselves. They tend to throw hot potato to the Shinawatra family every time when any wrong thing occurs", Gen Chaisit said.

The retired senior general dared the Democrats to show evidence to the general public to prove that members of the Shinawatra family were behind the audio clip.

Bangkok Post

If it can be proven that the clip originated from SC Asset Co, then Yingluck should be held responsible. Whether or not I agree or disagree with the cyber laws here is not the issue. Other webmasters have had to suffer the consequences of hosting a website where members have posted porn, and they were held 100% responsible. If it is true, Yingluck is no exception. To be fair, the democrats have made the accusation and must follow through as well.

Well, duhhhh, of course a Shinawatra is going to go and say anything to try and protect a fellow Shinawatra. You will notice that the more this doctored audio becomes an issue, the more it points at the Shinawatras, and the more shrill that tribe will get in their defense.

This doctored audio thing could blow up to be the Watergate of contemporary Thai politics. Audiotapegate or Audiogate or Speechgate ....whatever.

Dear Shinawatras, the electronic evidence is focusing in on the veracity of the audio and who issued it. THE SCREWS ARE TIGHTENING (|/////> (tried to make a picture of a screw). Yea. Start cranking out excuses, Mr and Mrs Shinawatra, because you'll need all the far-flung excuses you can dig up - as I'm sure your powers of wheedling are not diminished.

Oh, and don't forget to fight fire with fire, as you're already doing, by lashing out at the investigators (and opposition politicos) as they patiently scrutinize the audio and its means of dissemination.

Pastrygate will pale in comparison to this imbroglio.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

[webfact]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

No. 1

[TAWP]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

#1, since the edit is very sloppy!

This isn't some professional (by international standards...) that did this, this is at par with how ever photo-studio has an unlicensed version of Photoshop and every clerk always tries to remove your scars or marks but smudging, cloning, lightening and fussing up the pic a lot. A hack-job if you will. Audio and image-manipulation is in my work-past, so take it from there if you will...

Edited August 29, 2009 by TAWP

[animatic]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

#1, since the edit is very sloppy!

This isn't some professional (by international standards...) that did this, this is at par with how ever photo-studio has an unlicensed version of Photoshop and every clerk always tries to remove your scars or marks but smudging, cloning, lightening and fussing up the pic a lot. A hack-job if you will. Audio and image-manipulation is in my work-past, so take it from there if you will...

Oh #1 for sure no matter which side started this.

Audio and image manipulation ALSO was one of my job descriptions

As well as audio and video forensic analysis.

The likelyhood of someone clandestinely : installing a sound app,

and then taking the time to edit a voice file,

in a office you have no rights to be in at night,

is pretty slim.

That someone thinks they can juggle words about and make it believable,

and also THINK they are not being sloppy, is not a far stretch of the imagination.

Add to the sole and total output of PTP is to find something ANYTHING to 'get' the Dems with,

makes it quite likely they would gladly, and blindly, JUMP at ANYTHING that they think might make MUD STICK...

My gut sort of leans to the Yingluk was in the dark theory, but someone in her offices likely did this,

and sent it out from there to PTP offices, who ate it whole cloth. Same, same, she's in the soup now.

[hammered]

It is indeed a very very sloppy piece of work.

If it emanates from where it is claimed and if the chain of movement is as claimed then PTP/Reds are going to have some explaining to do.

Note the current red divisions over at least tactics but which seem to be getting personal between certain leaders.

The possibility of it being a frame on the reds will always exist but if forensic evidence coems up to show ehere it emanated from and/or the route it took that possibility will seem to diminish.

Interesting timing.

Funny we see some jockeying for position and power in the government and some plays at the top of the red movement. Maybe what is triggering this has not been seen yet.

[xminator]

Is there any 3rd party sources that can confirm this is a doctored tape? The government propaganda machine (eg any "official" stories posted in this tread so far) have every incentive to claim both doctored tape and the source of the clip. Animatic is hardly a 3rd party either, he would support the current regime all the way to the factory ovens.

Considering how some of the posters scrutinized some news sources, its funny how they swallow bait hook and line anything that come from this government.

[Moonrakers]

Is there any 3rd party sources that can confirm this is a doctored tape? The government propaganda machine (eg any "official" stories posted in this tread so far) have every incentive to claim both doctored tape and the source of the clip. Animatic is hardly a 3rd party either, he would support the current regime all the way to the factory ovens.

Considering how some of the posters scrutinized some news sources, its funny how they swallow bait hook and line anything that come from this government.

Nobody from any side has denied that the tape is doctored, which in itself speaks volumes.

[Insight]

Appreciate this is a slightly dangerous request, but is there anywhere I could start the hunt for this audio recording? Please PM me if you know. Thanks.

[hammered]

Is there any 3rd party sources that can confirm this is a doctored tape? The government propaganda machine (eg any "official" stories posted in this tread so far) have every incentive to claim both doctored tape and the source of the clip. Animatic is hardly a 3rd party either, he would support the current regime all the way to the factory ovens.

Considering how some of the posters scrutinized some news sources, its funny how they swallow bait hook and line anything that come from this government.

Nobody from any side has denied that the tape is doctored, which in itself speaks volumes.

Nearly everyone on the red side is trying to distance themselves from it.

[mc2]

Appreciate this is a slightly dangerous request, but is there anywhere I could start the hunt for this audio recording? Please PM me if you know. Thanks.

posting of the clip on the internet is a violation of the Computer act punishable up to 5 years

[animatic]

Is there any 3rd party sources that can confirm this is a doctored tape? The government propaganda machine (eg any "official" stories posted in this tread so far) have every incentive to claim both doctored tape and the source of the clip. Animatic is hardly a 3rd party either, he would support the current regime all the way to the factory ovens.

Considering how some of the posters scrutinized some news sources, its funny how they swallow bait hook and line anything that come from this government.

Nobody from any side has denied that the tape is doctored, which in itself speaks volumes.

Who swallowed what hook.

Can't turn that around.

Logic points in certain directions regardless of who is pronouncing what.

I just pointed out some facts about HOW this kind of thing is done.

And about how it can be detected.

If my choice is between an utterly ineffectual Charlerm lead government and the Dems now.

Hands down Chalerm is not my choice. If they were even VAGUELY prepared to hold office,

then it MIGHT be a horse race.. but that ain't the case.

If the choice expands to a vengful Thaksin lead government,

hands down that is the death nell for peace and freedom in Thailand..

no voting for that debacle.

Factory Ovens... hmm, what you making plastic Thaksin love masks?

Xterminator and Ovens seems to have a cojoined Siamese themes...

Maybe you only hate bugs?

Who really needs to hear this crap hackjob of a smear tape. No one.

Edited August 29, 2009 by animatic

[Rumfoord]

Appreciate this is a slightly dangerous request, but is there anywhere I could start the hunt for this audio recording? Please PM me if you know. Thanks.

posting of the clip on the internet is a violation of the Computer act punishable up to 5 years

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

was there any wide distribution of the clip. an odd way anyway, per circular mail, the track as attachmnent instead to uploading it somewhere. and nobody really gives a shit about that track, otherwise it would be much more easy available.

and okay someone made a fake audio track and send it per email, that isn't really publishing or broad casting and what about privacy of correspondence?

[frodo]

Appreciate this is a slightly dangerous request, but is there anywhere I could start the hunt for this audio recording? Please PM me if you know. Thanks.

posting of the clip on the internet is a violation of the Computer act punishable up to 5 years

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

[hammered]

Appreciate this is a slightly dangerous request, but is there anywhere I could start the hunt for this audio recording? Please PM me if you know. Thanks.

posting of the clip on the internet is a violation of the Computer act punishable up to 5 years

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

was there any wide distribution of the clip. an odd way anyway, per circular mail, the track as attachmnent instead to uploading it somewhere. and nobody really gives a shit about that track, otherwise it would be much more easy available.

and okay someone made a fake audio track and send it per email, that isn't really publishing or broad casting and what about privacy of correspondence?

The claim is that the clip emananted from SC Assets and was then sent to PTP PR office and was then circulated to a bunch of journalists and put up on the internet. If the claim can be substantiated it would be quite damining on the PTP. Nobody seems to be denying the file is a construct.

[Samuian]

This whole "struggel for genuine Democrazy"

becomes ever more abstruse and obvious a

that it is nothing but a cheap trick, to cover the grab

for ruler ship and power!

I really wonder what those who pull the strings

in this clandestine affair, think about their opposition,

their declared enemies?

they must believe that they are superior to anyone,

that they can undetected outsmart anything - isn't

this the well known signature of their master?

As time moves on and the Ultimatum is approaching

faster, more carelessness will occur and the scam may come

clearly visible for all!

Many more dirty acts to surface, that is as certain as the

sun rises....

The attitude behind this all is frightening - such an ego,

who could wish to be guided by such a man and such 'friends"?

Edited August 29, 2009 by Samuian