Riot Audio Tape Doctored : Pm

[Rumfoord]

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

can you point out the relevant paragraphs?

what is exactly the crime here? that law seems to be very exploitable for those who are in power.

technical speaking isn't that track mixed with cut ups and samples of Abhisits words, exactly the same thing like the Thaksin Rap on youtube.

[hammered]

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

can you point out the relevant paragraphs?

what is exactly the crime here? that law seems to be very exploitable for those who are in power.

technical speaking isn't that track mixed with cut ups and samples of Abhisits words, exactly the same thing like the Thaksin Rap on youtube.

The difference to the rap is that a poltical party apparently gave a doctored recording to journalists claiming it as real. That if confirmed would be criminal. There are also other condsiderations such as it being incitement consdiering the nature of the recording. Deliberately producing a fraudulent sound file to undermine the PM of a country is going to be a jaliable offence anywhere and if it were deemed likely to incite violence then no doubt that jail term would be bigger. You'd think anyone who accidently got caught in this ruse would make it clear they no longer accepted the veracity of the recording and apologize to the PM. All sides clarifying that it wasnt real would go a long way to ensuring little need for legal action. However, that doesnt fit everyone's political agenda.

[frodo]

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

can you point out the relevant paragraphs?

what is exactly the crime here? that law seems to be very exploitable for those who are in power.

technical speaking isn't that track mixed with cut ups and samples of Abhisits words, exactly the same thing like the Thaksin Rap on youtube.

Depending on how you read it, and how the voice file was made. I'm not an expert on this, but I take it as if it was made on a computer, it is a computer crime. Section 14.2 say's this, and really, it's not a bad law at all and does make sense:

"(2) that involves import to a computer system of false computer data in a manner that is likely to damage the country's security or cause a public panic"

Producing a false sound file and using it to threaten the country's security, which certainly would have been true had it not be discovered to be a fake, not only should be, but is against the law. There is a big difference between a parody of Thaksin singing a rap song, and a voice file which would bring the nation further down the rat-hole.

Edited August 29, 2009 by frodo

[animatic]

in the bangkok post was also written that " legal action under the computer crime law would be taken against all those who forwarded the email containing the audio track."

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

can you point out the relevant paragraphs?

what is exactly the crime here? that law seems to be very exploitable for those who are in power.

technical speaking isn't that track mixed with cut ups and samples of Abhisits words, exactly the same thing like the Thaksin Rap on youtube.

The difference to the rap is that a poltical party apparently gave a doctored recording to journalists claiming it as real. That if confirmed would be criminal. There are also other condsiderations such as it being incitement consdiering the nature of the recording. Deliberately producing a fraudulent sound file to undermine the PM of a country is going to be a jaliable offence anywhere and if it were deemed likely to incite violence then no doubt that jail term would be bigger. You'd think anyone who accidently got caught in this ruse would make it clear they no longer accepted the veracity of the recording and apologize to the PM. All sides clarifying that it wasnt real would go a long way to ensuring little need for legal action. However, that doesnt fit everyone's political agenda.

The Thaksin rap is fair use PARODY of a public figure.

And it uses his actual words, not twisting them into something OTHER than what he says,

But parody non the less.

Trying to foist this blatant lie as truth, and use it against the government,

before a mass rally intended to 'bring down the government' is sedition.

And breaking the computer law against disseminating lies as truth via the internet.

A decidedly more sinister and illegal act than a simple comic parody.

[Plus]

Everyone will forget about it by Monday.

There's no damage to PTP or the reds or Shinawatras - they are pracitcally expected to produce false evidence every couple of months. Some sloppy record is not going to bring their reputation any lower than it already is.

The only intersting thing what impact will be there on the red believers, but their leaders can always blame it on someone else, so no damage there, too.

[brahmburgers]

I guess that means if SC Assets Co., run by Yingluck Shinawattra, is found to be in violation of the Computer Act, she will face up to five years if found that her company is responsible for creating or even distributing the file.

Computer Act

a little background on Ms Yingluck, taken from 'Siam Report' :

"In 2000, Yingluck reportedly bought 2 million shares of Shin Corp., at 10 baht a share, from Thaksin. The market value at the time of the sale was 150 baht per share. Based on testimony to ASC in 2007, Yingluck did not file a tax report for the capital gains made in the share price difference; she said she was not liable for taxes because she had not sold the shares. Also, according to The Nation, Yingluck sold 370,000 AIS shares at an average price of 105 baht between October 2005 and January 2006. She, along with the rest of the family, sold the remainder of AIS shares to Temasek Holdings, an investment arm of the Singapore government, on January 23, 2006. When Temasek bought Shin Corp from the Shinawatra and Damapong families, it did so at a share price of 49.25 baht for a total of 73.3 billion baht. (The Nation, April 25, 2007, The Nation, April 30, 2007). "

perhaps off topic (though it gives a window on one of the principles being discussed in this thread): why would someone sell shares for Bt.49.25 each (to Temasek) when, just days/weeks earlier she'd sold some of the same shares for over twice that amount per share (Bt.105)? It appears there's lots of fishy biz swirling around her.

Plus, her online bio mentions her dominant roles in the Puea Thai political party, but doesn't make any mention of whether she had any prior involvement in TRT or PPP parties. She did also attend Kentucky State College, but that's neither here nor there, I reckon - except it indicates she may be one of the few Thais who has a good handle on English.

Everyone will forget about it by Monday. There's no damage to PTP or the reds or Shinawatras - they are pracitcally expected to produce false evidence every couple of months. Some sloppy record is not going to bring their reputation any lower than it already is. The only intersting thing what impact will be there on the red believers, but their leaders can always blame it on someone else, so no damage there, too.

I don't agree it will be forgotten by Monday. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but the current PM and his people should pursue the leads and act dynamically.

Edited August 29, 2009 by brahmburgers

[animatic]

Yes, this is a clear breach of law if proved, and they seem to be able to prove it.

Giving PTP a good, solid, and deserved, kick in the legal 'nads wouldn't hurt things.

[Kitsch22]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

3. Someone not very useful at all.

Readily available software means that a high quality mash-up of a politician's words should be within the reach even of a talented amateur. Like this fellow:

[Plus]

Everyone will forget about it by Monday. There's no damage to PTP or the reds or Shinawatras - they are pracitcally expected to produce false evidence every couple of months. Some sloppy record is not going to bring their reputation any lower than it already is. The only intersting thing what impact will be there on the red believers, but their leaders can always blame it on someone else, so no damage there, too.

I don't agree it will be forgotten by Monday. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but the current PM and his people should pursue the leads and act dynamically.

Well, it's Monday and it's off the front pages already.

Niphon resignation is a hot topic instead.

[hammered]

Everyone will forget about it by Monday. There's no damage to PTP or the reds or Shinawatras - they are pracitcally expected to produce false evidence every couple of months. Some sloppy record is not going to bring their reputation any lower than it already is. The only intersting thing what impact will be there on the red believers, but their leaders can always blame it on someone else, so no damage there, too.

I don't agree it will be forgotten by Monday. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but the current PM and his people should pursue the leads and act dynamically.

Well, it's Monday and it's off the front pages already.

Niphon resignation is a hot topic instead.

It was also well down the list here until you resurrected it Plus

[hammered]

Maybe it is not going away. Two SC Asset people have been arrested:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...allegedly-maili

It seems there is an evidential trail if two particular persons can be arested so quickly. Someone was seemingly sloppy in this one.

Meanwhile PTPers are scurrying to deny being connected with it. It might help if they denounced it.

[laukra]

Spokesman denies giving out PM clip

Pongthep Thepkanchana, spokesman for former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, on Monday denied being the source of the controversial audio clip of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Mr Pongthep's statement came after Democrat Party's spokesman Buranat Samutharak said that the sound clip of Mr Abhisit ordering a tough crackdown on anti-government protesters in April was distributed during a seminar of the 111 Foundation, which comprises banned politicians of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party.

Mr Ponthep said he believes there are attempts to connect the former Thai Rak Thai Party to the controversy.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...urce-of-pm-clip

Two SC Asset people have been arrested

connection completed

[laukra]

PM's Audio Clip: SC Employees Taken in for Questioning

UPDATE : TAN Network 31 August 2009

Two employees of SC company have been called in for questioning for their alleged involvement in the distribution of a doctored audio clip of the premier ordering the authorities to incite violence during the April riot.

Bail has been set at 100,000 baht for each suspect.

The Crime Suppression Division is currently searching for the individual who edited the original clip, using sound clips of the premier from the prime minister's website and the weekly national address on April 16 and 19.

[laukra]

2 SC Asset employees nabbed for doctoring PM's audio clip

BANGKOK, Aug 31 (TNA) - Thai police on Monday nabbed two employees of the Shinawatra family-related business SC Asset Corporation on charges of doctoring an audio clip of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva so that it appeared that he ordering the nation’s security forces to crack down violently against anti-government protesters in mid-April.

Pol Col Supisarn Bhakdeenaruenard, deputy commander of the Police Crime Suppression Division, said that two business relations staff of SC Asset Corporation were detained for questioning after police found that they had altered the premier's audio clip and distributed it via the Internet.

Col Supisarn said the two accused confessed to police that they had edited the clip and emailed it only among the company's employees.

They said they did not know how the edited clip could have spread among the public and said they did not know that their action violates the computer crime act, Col Supisarn said.

SC Asset is a leading integrated property company, and is run by Yingluck Shinawatra, the youngest sister of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

The doctored audio clip of the prime minister allegedly featured Mr Abhisit ordering security personnel to use violence to suppress anti-government protesters from the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) during mid-April to cause chaos at the time of then-scheduled ASEAN Summit in Pattaya and used the incident as an excuse to impose an Emergency Decree to control the situation.

The premier however insisted he had not said such words and said the clip was doctored in order to discredit the government and to incite the public to cause turmoil.

Police have tracked the origin of the emails in which the clip has been sent through and found that it was first sent by an SC Asset employee.

The deputy commander said the two employees have been charged of diffusing false information via internet which could affect and damage Thailand’s national security.

The two accused however have been released on bail of Bt100,000 each.

Col Supisarn said that police were seeking a court ordered search warrant of Mrs Yingluck's company Monday afternoon.

[laukra]

Police search Shinawatra building

Crime Suppression Division police on Monday afternoon searched the office of SC Asset, a property firm of the Shinawatra family, to look into the computers of two company employees arrested on Sunday for alleged involvement in the release of the controversial audio clip with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's edited voice.

With a warrant issued by the Criminal Court, four plain-clothes CSD policemen, led by Pol Lt-Col Withaya Sriprasertparp, deputy superindent of the CSD Division 1, went to the Shinawatra 3 building, where SC Asset is located, and coordinated with Pichit Chuenban, the company's lawyer, to examine the computers of the two suspects.

The police were not allowed to take the computers out of the office, but received permission to download data from five computers used by the two SC Asset employees for further examination to find out if they were involved in doctoring the clip that contained the prime minister's voice ordering tough action against the red shirts during the Songkran riots.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...awatra-building

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Not an expert but there appear to be 2 choices of things to believe.

1. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files but doesn't know that machine location is embedded in the file.

2. Someone useful enough to know how to edit sound files and who knows precisely that machine location is embedded in the file, and how to make sure the information says what people want to hear.

On balance, which is more likely?

#1, since the edit is very sloppy!

This isn't some professional (by international standards...) that did this, this is at par with how ever photo-studio has an unlicensed version of Photoshop and every clerk always tries to remove your scars or marks but smudging, cloning, lightening and fussing up the pic a lot. A hack-job if you will. Audio and image-manipulation is in my work-past, so take it from there if you will...

Point taken. Good point too.

[Changian]

It'd be more interesting if The Nation & Bangkok Post's journalists did their job and thought to themselves . .

Isnt it strange how a secret recording of a private conversation between the PM, cabinet members and top security officials ends up in the hands of two lawyers who just happen to be working for Thaksin's sister who then decide to edit the tape and then email it on to others from their office PC. Wonder how that could have happened and what they could possibly have to gain from doing that? I know we'll investigate.

But I have a feeling that isn't going to happen.

[animatic]

It'd be more interesting if The Nation & Bangkok Post's journalists did their job and thought to themselves . .

Isnt it strange how a secret recording of a private conversation between the PM, cabinet members and top security officials ends up in the hands of two lawyers who just happen to be working for Thaksin's sister who then decide to edit the tape and then email it on to others from their office PC.

Wonder how that could have happened and what they could possibly have to gain from doing that?

I know we'll investigate.

But I have a feeling that isn't going to happen.

In a word:

MONEY

[Samuian]

It'd be more interesting if The Nation & Bangkok Post's journalists did their job and thought to themselves . .

Isnt it strange how a secret recording of a private conversation between the PM, cabinet members and top security officials ends up in the hands of two lawyers who just happen to be working for Thaksin's sister who then decide to edit the tape and then email it on to others from their office PC.

Wonder how that could have happened and what they could possibly have to gain from doing that?

I know we'll investigate.

But I have a feeling that isn't going to happen.

In a word:

MONEY

Coupled with obedience to orders from "higher up's"!

This whole thing carries a certain signature!

[TAWP]

A note...who says the initial recording [used to splice this sham together] came from any 'secret' talk?

[animatic]

A note...who says the initial recording [used to splice this sham together] came from any 'secret' talk?

I think you misread.

The point was who in the cabinet meeting with others made a SECRET RECORDING,

and THEN leaked it to.. whom, and this tape resulted?

Either there are bugs in the cabinet room or an official recording, like Nixon's tapes,

and a traitor who was willing to copy that record for pay or ideology.

Or Thaksin has a spy in some position with access to Cabinet room discussions.

not beyond reason with the tangled allegences involved.

Army or police generals or their attachés seem most likely.

Who dunit...? a bigger question of the day.

Edited September 1, 2009 by animatic

[TAWP]

A note...who says the initial recording [used to splice this sham together] came from any 'secret' talk?

I think you misread.

The point was who in the cabinet meeting with others made a SECRET RECORDING,

and THEN leaked it to.. whom, and this tape resulted?

Either there are bugs in the cabinet room or an official recording, like Nixon's tapes,

and a traitor who was willing to copy that record for pay or ideology.

Or Thaksin has a spy in some position with access to Cabinet room discussions.

not beyond reason with the tangled allegences involved.

Army or police generals or their attachés seem most likely.

Who dunit...? a bigger question of the day.

Right, if it has been confirmed that the source-material for this splicing was indeed from a secret cabinet meeting.

Is it confirmed?

[ThNiner]

Right, if it has been confirmed that the source-material for this splicing was indeed from a secret cabinet meeting.

Is it confirmed?

From what I've read and heard regarding the original soundbites, they were actually from two sessions of the weekly Abhisit's tv show, "Cheau Man Prated Thai" (Believe in Thailand).

[animatic]

Right, if it has been confirmed that the source-material for this splicing was indeed from a secret cabinet meeting.

Is it confirmed?

From what I've read and heard regarding the original soundbites, they were actually from two sessions of the weekly Abhisit's tv show, "Cheau Man Prated Thai" (Believe in Thailand).

In most countries, most cabinet meetings ARE closed. Calling them secret is not really accurate.

It is generally acknowledged that not all government discussions should or need be publicly held.

That's why they put on doors. So cabinet and ministers can speak freely and discuss possibly less

popular 'options' for problems, even as they likely will never be acted on.

Devils advocates need not be tarred for postulating contrary options.

And sometimes tipping your hand publicly can cost the public more money

than deciding and awaiting the best moment to announce.

Some cabinet meetings are open the the press etc.

and rightly so, but it isn't 100% necessary every time.

If this cabinet meeting was being held at a secret location for security,

then that is understandable considering what was happening that day...

Now clandestinely recording a closed or private meeting on national security issues

WOULD be a very bad thing to do, especially in times of rioting with

calls for revolution or toppling the government by force...

Edited September 1, 2009 by animatic

[TAWP]

Right, if it has been confirmed that the source-material for this splicing was indeed from a secret cabinet meeting.

Is it confirmed?

From what I've read and heard regarding the original soundbites, they were actually from two sessions of the weekly Abhisit's tv show, "Cheau Man Prated Thai" (Believe in Thailand).

In most countries, most cabinet meetings ARE closed. Calling them secret is not really accurate.

It is generally acknowledged that not all government discussions should or need be publicly held.

That's why they put on doors. So cabinet and ministers can speak freely and discuss possibly less

popular 'options' for problems, even as they likely will never be acted on.

Devils advocates need not be tarred for postulating contrary options.

And sometimes tipping your hand publicly can cost the public more money

than deciding and awaiting the best moment to announce.

Some cabinet meetings are open the the press etc.

and rightly so, but it isn't 100% necessary every time.

If this cabinet meeting was being held at a secret location for security,

then that is understandable considering what was happening that day...

Now clandestinely recording a closed or private meeting on national security issues

WOULD be a very bad thing to do, especially in times of rioting with

calls for revolution or toppling the government by force...

Right...but I have seen nothing, and ThNiner seems to confirm this, that indicates the source came from any non-public session.

Ergo, a radio or tv address can be grabbed by anyone and misused.

[hammered]

I think Chalerm (possibly Jatuporn too) is the one who claims it came from some secret meeting. With few believing anything other than the out file being a spliced one with unnnatural speech and varying background levels it falls on those making the claim to prove what they say. People tend to be assumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

Of course in reality it is all a poltical game or part of the wider game with who gets to have the country being the ultimate prize so expect more of this kind of stuff.

[scorecard]

It'd be more interesting if The Nation & Bangkok Post's journalists did their job and thought to themselves . .

Isnt it strange how a secret recording of a private conversation between the PM, cabinet members and top security officials ends up in the hands of two lawyers who just happen to be working for Thaksin's sister who then decide to edit the tape and then email it on to others from their office PC.

Wonder how that could have happened and what they could possibly have to gain from doing that?

I know we'll investigate.

But I have a feeling that isn't going to happen.

In a word:

MONEY

Coupled with obedience to orders from "higher up's"!

This whole thing carries a certain signature!

Also, everybody in this picture having total lack of morals and ethics. And continue to believe they are above the law.

[scorecard]

I think Chalerm (possibly Jatuporn too) is the one who claims it came from some secret meeting. With few believing anything other than the out file being a spliced one with unnnatural speech and varying background levels it falls on those making the claim to prove what they say. People tend to be assumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

Of course in reality it is all a poltical game or part of the wider game with who gets to have the country being the ultimate prize so expect more of this kind of stuff.

Chalerm!

- Would you buy a used car from this character?

- I wouldn't believe anything he said.

[animatic]

I think Chalerm (possibly Jatuporn too) is the one who claims it came from some secret meeting. With few believing anything other than the out file being a spliced one with unnnatural speech and varying background levels it falls on those making the claim to prove what they say. People tend to be assumed innocent until proven guilty not the other way round.

Of course in reality it is all a poltical game or part of the wider game with who gets to have the country being the ultimate prize so expect more of this kind of stuff.

Chalerm!

- Would you buy a used car from this character?

- I wouldn't believe anything he said.

Much better than buying a used gun from him, by many accounts....

[xminator]

So a politician questions the governments claims and the reply is a call for party dissolution? Banana republic alarm! Of course the arm chair generals of this forum will keep their focus no matter what...

So how about a hearing? The kind where the government have to back up their statements with evidence and facts and where the oposition is alowed to question claims without risking a trip to court.