Thailands Demise Will It Recover ?

[sunholidaysun1]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

[thaihome]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand ...

TH

[sokal]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

Do you think it is any better in DUBIA ? The western world is in RESSESSION and will be for a long time.

The solution to the problem is all the new tourists that discover Thailand every day. They like it and they will be there to take YOUR place.

Edited August 28, 2009 by sokal

[jpolten]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

That's a pretty good moan....but i think he's right!

Don't think submitting anything to TAT or any other department would make a difference,do you think they'd listen?(maybe worth a try)

but i do think deep down they know their problems but can't find a way to stamp out corruption that has been rotting thailand to the core for

many years and crime that is organized by mafia types with the police involved or just to afraid to do something about it!

There will always be scams in LOS and its up to the people to do their home work before visiting/living there,(have to admit i got caught

with the pigeon thing around the palace on my first visit) and anyone who says they were never scammed are lying or never left their hotel room

because everyone gets caught even if they don't realize it!

[sokal]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

That's a pretty good moan....but i think he's right!

Don't think submitting anything to TAT or any other department would make a difference,do you think they'd listen?(maybe worth a try)

but i do think deep down they know their problems but can't find a way to stamp out corruption that has been rotting thailand to the core for

many years and crime that is organized by mafia types with the police involved or just to afraid to do something about it!

There will always be scams in LOS and its up to the people to do their home work before visiting/living there,(have to admit i got caught

with the pigeon thing around the palace on my first visit) and anyone who says they were never scammed are lying or never left their hotel room

because everyone gets caught even if they don't realize it!

I actually enjoy the chaos, go have fun in your nanny state.

[perousing]

i think it must be very difficult to stop what has been going on in this country for a very long time. ie police corruption, scamming,murdering, ect ect i am sure the list will be added to, a very tough job for the goverment IF they want to tackle it. ps bkk barry's post was very true, and well written

[jpolten]

I actually enjoy the chaos, go have fun in your nanny state.

Wait until the chaos comes to your door,you might not enjoy so much then

[JR Texas]

The pinned article is right on target...........it did seem to leave out the obvious xenophobia that is growing in Thailand. I was struck by this:

Thailand, instead of doing everything it can to attract foreign visitors and their money, instead is doing its best to discourage those who do come ever to return....The future in Thailand is bleak indeed. The country is plunging relentlessly and with increasing speed into an abyss, and the really sad thing is that, despite the effects of the recession, a large part of it is self-inflicted.

Thais see themselves and the center of the universe........and they refuse to listen to reason, especially when it comes from the terrible "outsiders." The education system is a disaster.........students do not know how to think rationally.

What I am most fearful about is what will happen when a large cohort of young graduates discover their dreams are just that..........dreams. My guess is that the social chaos we have witnessed recently is nothing compared to what will happen in the future if the status quo is maintained.

And those that rule (a tiny fraction of the population) continue to have no desire to share any of the economic pie with the masses. So, there is no reason to assume the status quo will not be maintained.

In the short term, the economy will likely rebound slightly.......only because the govt. has borrowed money from future generations to pay for large stimulus packages. But that will only be a short term solution.

In the long term, Thailand-Titanic will sick further into the depths.......xenophobia will increase.........and more social chaos/violence will result.

None of this had to happen......that is the sad part.

[jpolten]

i think it must be very difficult to stop what has been going on in this country for a very long time. ie police corruption, scamming,murdering, ect ect i am sure the list will be added to, a very tough job for the goverment IF they want to tackle it. ps bkk barry's post was very true, and well written

Think they need a very firm but fair leader who's not afraid to step on some toes,someone who's not afraid to tackle the big boys and put them in line!

If they want to sort the country they're going to have to start at the top and let the sh*t roll down hill,and with those found at fault heavy punishments

should be given!

But we all know crack downs only last so long and then its back to normal,i wonder if the really care!

[sokal]

The pinned article is right on target...........it did seem to leave out the obvious xenophobia that is growing in Thailand. I was struck by this:

Thailand, instead of doing everything it can to attract foreign visitors and their money, instead is doing its best to discourage those who do come ever to return....The future in Thailand is bleak indeed. The country is plunging relentlessly and with increasing speed into an abyss, and the really sad thing is that, despite the effects of the recession, a large part of it is self-inflicted.

Thais see themselves and the center of the universe........and they refuse to listen to reason, especially when it comes from the terrible "outsiders." The education system is a disaster.........students do not know how to think rationally.

What I am most fearful about is what will happen when a large cohort of young graduates discover their dreams are just that..........dreams. My guess is that the social chaos we have witnessed recently is nothing compared to what will happen in the future if the status quo is maintained.

And those that rule (a tiny fraction of the population) continue to have no desire to share any of the economic pie with the masses. So, there is no reason to assume the status quo will not be maintained.

In the short term, the economy will likely rebound slightly.......only because the govt. has borrowed money from future generations to pay for large stimulus packages. But that will only be a short term solution.

In the long term, Thailand-Titanic will sick further into the depths.......xenophobia will increase.........and more social chaos/violence will result.

None of this had to happen......that is the sad part.

whatever makes it different from the west is fine by me.

[stevehaigh]

in the link posted by the OP, stickman says "I was on the phone with my favourite uncle the other day who also happens to be a confidante. I was telling him how bad things are and he implored me to get out saying that even from back in New Zealand he could see that the writing was on the wall. And in his words, "You don't want to leave it too late"."

he makes it sound a pyramid or ponzi scheme where the first ones out run off with all the loot and last ones out get left holding the baby.

what a bunch of BS,! for all its problems (non of which personally effect me) , it wouldn't matter if you were the last farang left in Thailand. ok, maybe it would be harder to find good pizza but the sun will still be shining, the girls still cute, the beer cold and life comfortable and fun.

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

[jpolten]

whatever makes it different from the west is fine by me.

No-one wants thailand to be like the west, i think most people thai and farang just want to be treated fairly!

[MrJohnson]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

Every Cloud has a grey middle

[ballpoint]

in the link posted by the OP, stickman says "I was on the phone with my favourite uncle the other day who also happens to be a confidante. I was telling him how bad things are and he implored me to get out saying that even from back in New Zealand he could see that the writing was on the wall. And in his words, "You don't want to leave it too late"."

he makes it sound a pyramid or ponzi scheme where the first ones out run off with all the loot and last ones out get left holding the baby.

what a bunch of BS,! for all its problems (non of which personally effect me) , it wouldn't matter if you were the last farang left in Thailand. ok, maybe it would be harder to find good pizza but the sun will still be shining, the girls still cute, the beer cold and life comfortable and fun.

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

Well said. The doom and gloom proponents here have taken on a religious fervour in their concern for other peoples well being. "If you don't get out now you will go to hel_l along with the country!"

Well, I'd like to say to you doom and gloom people, don't worry yourselves about me. If you truely believe your addled preaching then save yourselves and do get out now. Go bash your sensationalist, and at times racist, gospels somewhere else.

[Lancelot]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

[jpolten]

in the link posted by the OP, stickman says "I was on the phone with my favourite uncle the other day who also happens to be a confidante. I was telling him how bad things are and he implored me to get out saying that even from back in New Zealand he could see that the writing was on the wall. And in his words, "You don't want to leave it too late"."

he makes it sound a pyramid or ponzi scheme where the first ones out run off with all the loot and last ones out get left holding the baby.

what a bunch of BS,! for all its problems (non of which personally effect me) , it wouldn't matter if you were the last farang left in Thailand. ok, maybe it would be harder to find good pizza but the sun will still be shining, the girls still cute, the beer cold and life comfortable and fun.

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

Agree with you on the uncle bit and the "sky is falling" is tiresome but do you not think the problems there might effect you

sooner or later?...could happen to anyone expat or tourist!

[ballpoint]

Agree with you on the uncle bit and the "sky is falling" is tiresome but do you not think the problems there might effect you

sooner or later?...could happen to anyone expat or tourist!

So save yourself. Flee now before it's too late!

[robblok]

Thailand is done for run run run before they start lynching foreigners because of xenophobia.. run everyone run ... while stay here and enjoy a country with less farangs and less competition

I think Thailand has problems and it will get worse.. but to leave the country for it is a bit too much.

[JR Texas]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

Economics is a major factor......but it is only one factor.

Other countries in the region are doing fine..........Malaysia's tourism is robust and it is right next door to Thailand. Tourism in Bali is also robust. Why?

They are also caught up in the global downturn.

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

[ozzieovaseas]

The pinned article is right on target...........it did seem to leave out the obvious xenophobia that is growing in Thailand. I was struck by this:

Thailand, instead of doing everything it can to attract foreign visitors and their money, instead is doing its best to discourage those who do come ever to return....The future in Thailand is bleak indeed. The country is plunging relentlessly and with increasing speed into an abyss, and the really sad thing is that, despite the effects of the recession, a large part of it is self-inflicted.

Thais see themselves and the center of the universe........and they refuse to listen to reason, especially when it comes from the terrible "outsiders." The education system is a disaster.........students do not know how to think rationally.

What I am most fearful about is what will happen when a large cohort of young graduates discover their dreams are just that..........dreams. My guess is that the social chaos we have witnessed recently is nothing compared to what will happen in the future if the status quo is maintained.

And those that rule (a tiny fraction of the population) continue to have no desire to share any of the economic pie with the masses. So, there is no reason to assume the status quo will not be maintained.

In the short term, the economy will likely rebound slightly.......only because the govt. has borrowed money from future generations to pay for large stimulus packages. But that will only be a short term solution.

In the long term, Thailand-Titanic will sick further into the depths.......xenophobia will increase.........and more social chaos/violence will result.

None of this had to happen......that is the sad part.

Funny..everytime theres a thread about the ills of Thailand that little wooden puppet shows up

By your reasoning i suppose the theory that Thais dont want us in their country is feasable:

After all Thais blame us for all the bad things that happen in thailand...decline in values,materialism ect

so why would they want us here? they'd be crazy to invite more trouble

As for the decline in the tourist trade..WELL..once again,its DEFINATELY all OUR fault..see,the thais have got it right again

If my being here is a pain in the butt for Thais i am happy to keep on being one..

At least it keeps me away from those pesky ....... taking over Sydney and Melbourne.

[thaihome]

I wonder what this abyss that everyone seems to be so sure Thailand is plunging into looks like?

The fact of the matter is Thailand is an export based economy, not a tourism based one. Though tourism is an important industry, Thailand does not rise or fall based on it alone.

Is Toyota, Nissan, and Honda going to pull out of Thailand because a small number of tourist have been accused of shoplifting in the airport and bribed their way out of it?

Is Western Digital and Seagate going to close the factories that produce something half the hard drives in world going to close them because of a tragic accident in a Pattaya waterpark?

Is the market for Thai produced ethylene products and propylene going to dry up because a business dispute in Phuket that ended up with some shots fired?

Will the demand for Thai agriculture products like rice and tapioca going to go away because Thai newspapers show dead bodies on the front pages?

Are all the major companies doing business in Thailand going to pull all their expats out because the labor and immigration dept are cracking down on fraudulent documents and now require certified copies?

Anyone with any true sense of what makes Thailand run will realize the answer to all these questions is of course not.

What will make the difference to Thailand is a worldwide recovery that will increase the demand for Thai produced exports. I also agree that when that recovery sets in, toruism will pickup back up. Keeping in mind that the tourism in Thailand experienced a huge growth since 2005 and even with the numbers down, it has only gone to those levels. This is true of exports as well.

So, again, what is the abyss going to look like? If there is an abyss, it is the same one that the entire world is facing.

TH

[Lancelot]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

Economics is a major factor......but it is only one factor.

Other countries in the region are doing fine..........Malaysia's tourism is robust and it is right next door to Thailand. Tourism in Bali is also robust. Why?

They are also caught up in the global downturn.

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

JR, we are probably more in agreement about the BS occuring in Thailand than our posting reflects.

I REALLY like the Philippines, but they scam foreigners there too. On my last trip to Phnom Penh, I witnessed a Khmer waitress give a customer loads of verbal abuse because he had the audacity to request that his meal be served hot. Subjective examples for sure but my instincts have served me well and I believe the tourists will continue to flock to Thailand. Time will tell and I'm happy for all the people that love Thailand, but I know that we farangs are only tolerated, not really accepted here.

I always keep in mind the quote of one Thai poster here, "The Thais know exactly what they are doing and they don't care..."

[thaihome]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

Economics is a major factor......but it is only one factor.

Other countries in the region are doing fine..........Malaysia's tourism is robust and it is right next door to Thailand. Tourism in Bali is also robust. Why?

They are also caught up in the global downturn.

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Actually Malaysia continues to struggle with a 3.5 contraction in the economy for the 2nd quarter. Thailand is expected to announce a very slight expansion. Forecasts for the year are -5% for Malaysia and about -2.5 to -3% for Thailand

TH

Edited August 28, 2009 by thaihome

[JR Texas]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

Economics is a major factor......but it is only one factor.

Other countries in the region are doing fine..........Malaysia's tourism is robust and it is right next door to Thailand. Tourism in Bali is also robust. Why?

They are also caught up in the global downturn.

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Actually Malaysia continues to struggle with a 3.5 contraction in the economy for the 2nd quarter. Thailand is expected to announce a very slight expansion. Forecasts for the year are -5% for Malaysia and about -2.5 to -3% for Thailand

TH

I was talking about tourism, not the overall economy. If you bother to check the most recent UN figures on tourism, you will find that Malaysia is one of the few bright spots in the world. It also has a far greater annual economic growth rate than Thailand (so did Cambodia a few years ago).

[Maigo6]

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Not to mention the wave after wave of whining expats who post horror stories on internet forums, the fact that they CHOOSE to live in Thailand and have remained in Thailand after years of whinging remains a total mystery, it can't be that bad or they wouldn't be there in their droves.

Unlike the majority of Thai people who have to remain in such an horrendous place because they have no choice, the vast majority of Farangs have a choice to leave anytime they want, expats are a lucky bunch on the whole ( I mean those with adequate funds to actually have a choice ).

Can you imagine trying to explain to a really poor Thai guy who barely survives for whatever reason that you as an Expat are fed up with Thailand, unhappy, paranoid and uncertain and that you have a choice as to where you choose to reside ?

He would think you are totally bonkers to stay in such unhappy circumstances, when I'm broke with no hope in sight, I may also find fault in everything Thai, until then, I'm perfectly happy in Thailand and as far as I'm concerned, if I wasn't, I wouldn't have been here since 1990.

Kinda makes me smile when reading a thread about yet another farang who thinks his GF is cheating on him, the main advice seems to be, " RUN......there are plenty of other girls ".

There are also plenty of other countries that you can go to if you can't handle Thailand.

And as far as Tourism goes, Thailand has no problem, I've been hearing the nail in the coffin rants from barstool Farangs for 19 years, and Thailand still beats the crap outta Skegness or Margate.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Maigo6

[Livinginexile]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

It all depends on where you sit I guess.

[cdnvic]

All these coffin nails must be great for the steel industry.

[thaihome]

I believe Malaysia’s tourism statistics are highly skewed by visits from Singapore (and to a lesser extent Thailand). According to what I have found, there are some 10+ million “tourist” from Singapore each year. Pretty good for a country with only 4 million people in it.

Indeed, Malaysia has enjoyed a marginally higher growth rate then Thailand over the past 10 years. It certainly is not far higher, never more then 1%.

But you are correct of course, Malaysia is a much better run country, with virtually no political or religious issues, no one will try to get all the money they can from you there, and you are perfectly save to walk the streets of any city or town.

You know this because you have lived there for at least a year or more, correct?

TH

[Maigo6]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

It all depends on where you sit I guess.

Agreed.

[Maigo6]

But you are correct of course, Malaysia is a much better run country, with virtually no political or religious issues, no one will try to get all the money they can from you there, and you are perfectly save to walk the streets of any city or town.

You know this because you have lived there for at least a year or more, correct?

TH

And if not, why not ?