Thailands Demise Will It Recover ?

[Maigo6]

Moderators , Please close, enough has been said and there isnt anything else to say . Thanks to all for your contributions.

Until exactly the same thread comes along next week, and the week after, and the week after, and the week after, and the week after and the fookin' week after that ad infinitum.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Maigo6

[EndofDays]

I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but to see if your views are any different from the many who seem to be of the same opinion.

BKKBarry wrote on another website a very interesting view and I agree with what he has said.

Not sure if the moderators will allow his thread to be put on here ? but here is a link to his thread :

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmi.../reader5314.htm

Is there a Solution to Thailands problems ?

What about submitting to TAT a dossier of views by us , just incase they have no idea how the average tourist feels about Thailand and the bad parts within ?

Many of us live here and see the day to day destruction of the tourist industry and without help I think it will only get worse.

I read that article. It sort of pounds you in the face. I hate to say it but I think a lot of it can be contributed to the ongoing political intability. People want leadership, even if it is jacked-up leadership.

[JR Texas]

Expats that moan the loudest about Thailand are usually the "khe nok farangs" with little or no money.

Everyone I know with a well paying job or are self funded retirees are very happy with Thailand just the way it is.

My theory is these farangs are all the anti Thaksin red shirt suporters too. Thaksin started to make it hard for expats with no money to stay in Thailand.

Yes...life is hard in Thailand if you live on a shoe string budget. If one has money life is great!

I love this country.

There is an element of truth to that.........but it is only an element of truth. There are people who are financially/emotionally secure who do think Thailand is a sinking ship and raise their voices in order to alter the flow of information (or counter the status quo).

Really, when you think about, that is not odd. I seem to remember a guy who was very wealthy complaining a lot about the state of the country that we now call the United States.......his name was Thomas Jefferson.

And if you know anything about Thailand or can speak and understand Thai, you would also know that there are many well-to-do Thais who are currently voicing their displeasure at the state of the union in Thailand.......no matter what color shirt they wear.

Positive criticism is not confined to any particular social unit.

When you are rich, there is a tendency to ignore the reality of the world surrounding you.

But some people with money are simply more altruistic than others.

If I were you, Texas, I would have managed to live in a completely other country long time already and forget about the bad years before. Don't suffer, raise the anchor, move on on and be happy.

Both you and Maigo666 seem to have some sort of "problem".........strange posts. Be aware that other people are reading what you are posting and no doubt coming to the same conclusion.

What you are saying does not apply to me. But I suppose it could apply to the majority of Thais. Maybe, according to your logic, they need to move out of Thailand.

It is natural for human beings to move away from pain. What is odd is that so many humans embrace it or even magnifying by ignoring reality.

I think that comes from being misguided by charismatic figures..........the dominant cultural ethos is normally controlled by a few elites who can easily manipulate ignorant people.

Back to the subject............I think Thailand's economy has not hit bottom. I think we will see more social instability in the future. I think the ruling elite will utilize the mainstream mass media to maintain the status quo. And I think part of that manipulation will involve an increase in xenophobia.

All of this does not bode well for tourists, expats, foreign investors, and Thais in general.

There will, no doubt, be a small correction and the ruling elite will use the mainstream media to convince the public that "all is well, the worst is over." But that will only be related to the stimulus package recently passed by the govt.

It will only be a short term correction...........the problems and their underlying sources will remain and start to magnify. The rural-urban divide will continue to widen along with tensions between the two camps.

The big question is what unemployed and underemployed youth will do about it all. Will they continue to sing bad songs and ignore reality? Or will they embrace reality and become political?

[jpolten]

[ Someone with a pair of balls needs to lead the country and put things in order because at the end of the day its the thai

people who'll suffer

And that keeps you awake at night right ?

J, you come across as a nice enough guy to me, and I respect your posts, you must know that Thailand ain't gonna change in the forseeable future, will that stop you going to Thailand ?

Farangs are a very fickle lot, I was stopped a few days ago doing 160 kph in a 90 Kph limit road, I was stopped paid the 200 baht fine ( Policemans pocket ) and was away within 60 seconds, all very civilised.

Many Farangs compalin about corruption, but when they are done for excessive speeding whilst pizzsd outta their heads and drive away with a 4 - 500 Baht tea money bribe, I'm quite sure they are more than happy.

PS. This does not apply to ThaiVisa members as I know they are different and never ever break any laws and would rather face the axeman than pay a bribe and walk away.

I have respect for your posts and others too...everyone on this forum has an opinion on whats happening in thailand and have a right to talk about it!

Does it keep me awake at night?....No...but i do worry about it,and it wont stop me going, to me Thailand is a paradise with mostly nice people that i think will be the ones who'll pay for it in the long run!

I don't mind paying the small tea money if im a bad boy,its the big time corruption that bothers me and i couldn't care less if there were no more tourists,

but they are only hurting themself's by discouraging tourism in this way!

[Heng]

Also many of the perpetual whiners may be on their last legs in Thailand in terms of finances, I have certainly met many like that over the years. Everything is hunky dory for them when they are spending money like its gone out of fashion, then when the finances run down or the honeymoon period abates, they then blame Thailand for their loss of the fun factor, it never bothered them when they first arrived though, they were having a blast and were too occupied to complain all the time.

Spot on. I think it particularly stings when one can't maintain their finances/standard of living in a country where the mean IQ is 91 (or whatever is oft quoted). Probably feels like Usain Bolt continually coming in last when racing the Thai national team. Who wouldn't be cranky all the time?

[Maigo6]

What you are saying does not apply to me. But I suppose it could apply to the majority of Thais. Maybe, according to your logic, they need to move out of Thailand.

99.9% of Thai people don't have the chance to up and move on to another country just cos they don't like their homeleand, unlike us Farangs that can do exactly that, and many of us did.

And guess what, you can still keep moving, lucky ain't ya ?

[mrtoad]

Moderators , Please close, enough has been said and there isnt anything else to say . Thanks to all for your contributions.

Until exactly the same thread comes along next week, and the week after, and the week after, and the week after, and the week after and the fookin' week after that ad infinitum.

The sky is falling, it as been since I've been here. Anyway, we've done well this week, we even have another "Farang" thread.

Edited September 3, 2009 by mrtoad

[JR Texas]

What you are saying does not apply to me. But I suppose it could apply to the majority of Thais. Maybe, according to your logic, they need to move out of Thailand.

99.9% of Thai people don't have the chance to up and move on to another country just cos they don't like their homeleand, unlike us Farangs that can do exactly that, and many of us did.

And guess what, you can still keep moving, lucky ain't ya ?

When are you going to stop complaining about Thailand? If you don't like it.........just forget about it and move on.

[think_too_mut]

The fact of the matter is Thailand is an export based economy, not a tourism based one. Though tourism is an important industry, Thailand does not rise or fall based on it alone.

Tsunami that devastated tourism industry not only in Thailand in 2004. and killed 10,000 people in Phuket and surroundig areas alone, did not make a dent in Thai GDP the year after. Like it did not happen. Quite contrary:

Thai GDP 2004, 2005, ....

Just shows how important tourism is.

Between 2007. and 2008. it was industry that took a dive and that's what matters. Previous experience, when tourism only took a severe beating, shows that tourism is peanuts.

[think_too_mut]

I believe Malaysia’s tourism statistics are highly skewed by visits from Singapore (and to a lesser extent Thailand). According to what I have found, there are some 10+ million “tourist” from Singapore each year. Pretty good for a country with only 4 million people in it.

"Genuine" tourism to Langkawi and the rest of Malaysia could be bringing 1-2 mil tourists from Singapore.

The rest are - golf parties or day trip shopping tours or even a day out generated by 1+ mil expats living in Singapore. Then add to that general Singapore folks doing the same.

Each golfer on such (multiple per year, some do it 2-4 times a month) trip counts among 10 mil tourists from Singapore into Malaysia.

Nothing like 10 mil ppl (means each man, woman and child) from Singapore go to Malaysia for a week and stay in hotels on average 2 - 3 times a year.

(TH, just adding what's common knowldege to your already fine reasoning)

Edited September 4, 2009 by think_too_mut

[David006]

in the link posted by the OP, stickman says "I was on the phone with my favourite uncle the other day who also happens to be a confidante. I was telling him how bad things are and he implored me to get out saying that even from back in New Zealand he could see that the writing was on the wall. And in his words, "You don't want to leave it too late"."

he makes it sound a pyramid or ponzi scheme where the first ones out run off with all the loot and last ones out get left holding the baby.

what a bunch of BS,! for all its problems (non of which personally effect me) , it wouldn't matter if you were the last farang left in Thailand. ok, maybe it would be harder to find good pizza but the sun will still be shining, the girls still cute, the beer cold and life comfortable and fun.

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

[CrossBones]

OK well i agree things are rapidly going downhill...

but where are all these cheaper, friendlier, safer , more interesting and better places to go in neighboring countries?

Laos - Boring, nothing to do but yes it friendly and cheap

Vietnam - Bloody shoddy characters over there, everyone is on the take

Cambodia - cheaper, not as friendly, not beautfiul, and pretty dangerous and depressing

Malaysia? - Maybe? - Where to go in Malaysia for some sanook?

Singapore - is the rich mans bangkok, brilliant place, great food, has everything BKK has without any of the sh!t, but you need a lot of money

China????????????

Burma?

Where to go? Is china an option where are all the expats over there?

[Rionoir]

I've been pretty low on cash at some points when I was a student in Bangkok... and I was NEVER half as miserable as some people here. LoL Then again I don't have to buy my "happiness", and yes you can read into that on multiple levels... but I simply just enjoy living on Suan Plu, going to the market for some food, drink a couple beers with my Thai friends... it's a nice break from a busy work schedule the other 6 months of the year.

[Birdman]

OK well i agree things are rapidly going downhill...

but where are all these cheaper, friendlier, safer , more interesting and better places to go in neighboring countries?

Laos - Boring, nothing to do but yes it friendly and cheap

Vietnam - Bloody shoddy characters over there, everyone is on the take

Cambodia - cheaper, not as friendly, not beautfiul, and pretty dangerous and depressing

Malaysia? That comes nearest - Maybe? - Where to go in Malaysia for some sanook? Had Yai

Singapore - is the rich mans bangkok, brilliant place, great food, has everything BKK has without any of the sh!t, but you need a lot of money

China????????????

Burma?

Where to go? Kerala, Bali, Lombok, Western Australia, Himachal Pradesh, Nepal, Macao, Mindoro Is china an option where are all the expats over there? ,

There is no other place like Thailand anywhere...

[EnhancePlus]

I just returned from a trip to LOS. Swampy was packed. I love thailand and have NEVER had a bad experience here. If people stop coming new people will discover it. I believe 99% is what you bring yourself. If you bring 99% contempt and enbitterment you wouldn't have a good time in a wet dream.

[Heng]

That should be on a big banner in the Suvi arrivals hall.

"Please leave your contempt and embitterment at home, welcome to Thailand."

Edited September 4, 2009 by Heng

[Maigo6]

That should be on a big banner in the Suvi arrivals hall.

"Please leave your contempt and embitterment at home, welcome to Thailand."

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I've been pretty low on cash at some points when I was a student in Bangkok... and I was NEVER half as miserable as some people here. LoL Then again I don't have to buy my "happiness", and yes you can read into that on multiple levels... but I simply just enjoy living on Suan Plu, going to the market for some food, drink a couple beers with my Thai friends... it's a nice break from a busy work schedule the other 6 months of the year.

A good comment. Sometimes it is better just to get on with your own personal life and be happy rather than ponder the bigger picture and get frustrated and miserable with the stupidity of it all. Many farangs are unhappy in Thailand and without saying "if you don't like it then bugger off" which is a dopey thing for anyone to say, I do wonder why they put up with things they obviously don't like.

If worst comes to worst, it seems sensible to recognise we have little influence in Thailand and are considered to be semi-civilised and a bit feeble-minded for not understanding the 'superior' Thai culture (as one senior Army ex-General close to Prem noted last year - or perhaps he just wanted to think he was close to Prem).

Just take pleasure in the small day-to-day things and leave the wider issues to someone else. Watch and laugh from afar.

Edited September 4, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[rixalex]

Expats that moan the loudest about Thailand are usually the "khe nok farangs" with little or no money.

My theory is these farangs are all the anti Thaksin red shirt suporters too.

Crap theory.

Abhoring criminality has nothing to do with how much money you do or don't have.

[caf]

[ Someone with a pair of balls needs to lead the country and put things in order because at the end of the day its the thai

people who'll suffer

And that keeps you awake at night right ?

J, you come across as a nice enough guy to me, and I respect your posts, you must know that Thailand ain't gonna change in the forseeable future, will that stop you going to Thailand ?

Farangs are a very fickle lot, I was stopped a few days ago doing 160 kph in a 90 Kph limit road, I was stopped paid the 200 baht fine ( Policemans pocket ) and was away within 60 seconds, all very civilised.

Many Farangs compalin about corruption, but when they are done for excessive speeding whilst pizzsd outta their heads and drive away with a 4 - 500 Baht tea money bribe, I'm quite sure they are more than happy.

PS. This does not apply to ThaiVisa members as I know they are different and never ever break any laws and would rather face the axeman than pay a bribe and walk away.

Will Thailand s demise recover? While I agree that Thailand aint going to change anytime soon and that expats have little influence and no vote, I do feel for the Thais. They deserve better. And maybe discussion and debate will achieve something. And it is more than the tea money a afarng gives to get off when pissed that needs to be addressed.

In occupied France some people just accepted the situation ; some did not.

[clausewitz]

[it could in theory get so bad i'd have to leave; something like not allowing Thai wives of farang to own land

They only changed the lw in 1999 to allow thai wives of non-thai to own land. But this new law is unpopular with the likes of PAD and other ultra-nationalist- it could be revoked.

[CrossBones]

OK well i agree things are rapidly going downhill...

but where are all these cheaper, friendlier, safer , more interesting and better places to go in neighboring countries?

Laos - Boring, nothing to do but yes it friendly and cheap

Vietnam - Bloody shoddy characters over there, everyone is on the take

Cambodia - cheaper, not as friendly, not beautfiul, and pretty dangerous and depressing

Malaysia? That comes nearest - Maybe? - Where to go in Malaysia for some sanook? Had Yai

Singapore - is the rich mans bangkok, brilliant place, great food, has everything BKK has without any of the sh!t, but you need a lot of money

China????????????

Burma?

Where to go? Kerala, Bali, Lombok, Western Australia, Himachal Pradesh, Nepal, Macao, Mindoro Is china an option where are all the expats over there? ,

There is no other place like Thailand anywhere...

Um Had Yai is in Thailand not malaysia

[thaihome]

...

....Malaysia? That comes nearest - Maybe? - Where to go in Malaysia for some sanook? Had Yai

...There is no other place like Thailand anywhere...

Um Had Yai is in Thailand not malaysia

I would like to think that was the poster’s point. It was a question of where to go in Malaysia for sanook.

[Birdman]

...

....Malaysia? That comes nearest - Maybe? - Where to go in Malaysia for some sanook? Had Yai

...There is no other place like Thailand anywhere...

Um Had Yai is in Thailand not malaysia

I would like to think that was the poster’s point. It was a question of where to go in Malaysia for sanook.

Right, Had Yai is something like Pattaya for Malaysians, because they don't have such places there.

[tmd5855]

Some posters on here have the right idea about their life here. (To me) They like the country/people and their lifestyle.

They do not go into fits of rage at Thai politicians, Thai drivers, Thai price structures etc et al.

Take my hat off to them, you are happy and content with yourself and life, well done.

Others who moan, bitch and flame the happier members are themselves to blame for their own plight, see and keep my distance from them when happily going about Thailand.

Others seem to be so unhappy/angry they must spend all day in front of a PC railing about life.

Many have thousands of post's, yet been members for a short period.

Moan about dogs barking, predatory in-laws and relations, etc etc. Stand up and take charge of your life, not let others dictate. Act like a Thai, when in Rome?

Those who moan about Thai politicians appear impotent since their view counts for nothing to those same politicians.

Yet, same posters would have fits of rage if foreigners criticise our own upstanding MP's or Senators

Been living here for 6+ years, working for an international company who treat me well. Three to six years before retiring, everything is in place even now.

Yet, many who have came here did so since it was cheap and their lifestyle were so superior to good old Blighty, they felt the jackpot had been won?

Now exchange rates collapsing, falling income and rising prices have turned them against Thailand. Their own planning is to blame not Thailand.

If you do not like a film you leave, same as a restuarant meal, not like, you leave. Not like your life/style in Thailand then leave.

Expect now to be personally flamed as a rose (spec) tinted, thai lover for offering an opinion that many disagree with.

Yet I have not singled out any members, only a group of depressives

Edited September 8, 2009 by tmd5855

[chrgrims]

I agree on that thailand is in serious trouble and that the education system is the culprit. I have only lived here 1 year, but i found the lack of ability to think logically and using reason to be very disturbing. I know that some schools do teach about this, but one must remember that many stop school at a very early age, and never get to attend these classes.

But what are farangs doing about it? We have the logic and the education. So do something, i certainly will. I will try my best to teach the kids of my wifes family these subjects. Consider this a challenge to yourself.

best of luck, chr

[grandpops]

[it could in theory get so bad i'd have to leave; something like not allowing Thai wives of farang to own land

They only changed the lw in 1999 to allow thai wives of non-thai to own land. But this new law is unpopular with the likes of PAD and other ultra-nationalist- it could be revoked.

One of the things with knee jerk nationlist statements is that they are just that... hot air. They are made by small minded morons and usually don't get as far as policy... usually.

Should a serious policy ever come about along those lines, Thailand would sink.

[sunholidaysun1]

Nice to see good comments and discussions, thanks .