Thailands Demise Will It Recover ?

[JR Texas]

I believe Malaysia’s tourism statistics are highly skewed by visits from Singapore (and to a lesser extent Thailand). According to what I have found, there are some 10+ million “tourist” from Singapore each year. Pretty good for a country with only 4 million people in it.

Indeed, Malaysia has enjoyed a marginally higher growth rate then Thailand over the past 10 years. It certainly is not far higher, never more then 1%.

But you are correct of course, Malaysia is a much better run country, with virtually no political or religious issues, no one will try to get all the money they can from you there, and you are perfectly save to walk the streets of any city or town.

You know this because you have lived there for at least a year or more, correct?

TH

Yes, Malaysia and virtually every other country in Southeast Asia has been beating Thailand in terms of annual growth rate..........this is just a snapshot from 2007:

http://www.unescap.org/stat/data/syb2008/1...omic-growth.asp look at figure 15.3..........I would say the difference between Malaysia and Thailand is far more than "marginal."

About tourism statistics being skewed........the best in the world are by the UN.........I have posted them elsewhere and don't have the time to search for them now.

One thing to consider: People from Singapore have a choice about where to go............given the proximity to Thailand and Malaysia, they are choosing Malaysia, for whatever reason.

Thailand needs to pull its head out of the sand now........before it falls further behind its neighbors, all of whom are clapping each time Thailand makes another dumb decision about tourism, expats, foreign investment............

[Ulysses G.]

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Not to mention the wave after wave of whining expats who post horror stories on internet forums, the fact that they CHOOSE to live in Thailand and have remained in Thailand after years of whinging remains a total mystery, it can't be that bad or they wouldn't be there in their droves.

Hear, hear!

[geriatrickid]

Demise as in death? Perhaps chronic is a better description. Sort of like AIDS. It can be treated and managed, but living with it is very difficult as you age. It's the complications from the disease that make life hard, not the disease itself. If you have money though, you can make the best of it. Unfortunately, if you don't have money to pay for all the items that make life bearable, you just wait to die. Thailand is great if you have money.

Where else can I saunter off to buy Scottish smoked salmon for baht, get US imported no fat cream cheese, spanish capers, and some great Thai take away food and then have one of my underlings bring it home on his motorbike storing it under the seat so that it is baked to inedibility.

this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

More like when a bird overhead poops. Why does anyone have to bugger off? If they are contributing to the society and paying taxes, they are probably doing more than alot of Thais do. Let them have their say because if all the farangs that made a difference left, a great many charities would collapse, employment opportunities for many Thais would disappear and more importantly, alot of adolescent boys and girls would lose the career opportunity of selling their flesh to perverts.

bleh, these threads are so silly rehashes of same gripes over and over Howzabout, something new, like a suspected dingo's been devouring farangs in Samui?

[MKAsok]

Expat sets breathtaking new standard for recycled <deleted>. Dateline - Bangkok

A expat takes time out of his busy schedule of alternately drinking himself to death and contemplating suicide to deliver an impeccably rendered polemic of stunning worthlessness to his equally despicable and barely literate friends (cont on page 1476...)

[LooseCannon]

Cut & paste the top ten most popular whines from TV.

Add 'scam', multiple racist stereotyping & generalizations.

Get Thailand sexpert & know-it-all to confirm, with additional validation from know-nothing favorite uncle.

Post on TV with mandatory disclaimer - 'I dont want this thread to be a topic for bashing Thailand but......"

Loop

[doggie888888]

Expat sets breathtaking new standard for recycled <deleted>. Dateline - Bangkok

A expat takes time out of his busy schedule of alternately drinking himself to death and contemplating suicide to deliver an impeccably rendered polemic of stunning worthlessness to his equally despicable and barely literate friends (cont on page 1476...)

[KevinBloodyWilson]

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

Another one of the 'if you don't think what I think you have no right to comment" brigade.

Well done.

[sokal]

All the (Thailand) negatives aside; if the world economy suddenly surged forward and enjoyed positive growth, the buffalos, err tourists, would flood back to Thailand.

At the end of the day, its all about economics

Economics is a major factor......but it is only one factor.

Other countries in the region are doing fine..........Malaysia's tourism is robust and it is right next door to Thailand. Tourism in Bali is also robust. Why?

They are also caught up in the global downturn.

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Thailand is more established so it had the most to lose during a downturn. Go to Malaysia then, where they have relgious cops beating women. Is good public relations ?

[sokal]

I believe Malaysia's tourism statistics are highly skewed by visits from Singapore (and to a lesser extent Thailand). According to what I have found, there are some 10+ million "tourist" from Singapore each year. Pretty good for a country with only 4 million people in it.

Indeed, Malaysia has enjoyed a marginally higher growth rate then Thailand over the past 10 years. It certainly is not far higher, never more then 1%.

But you are correct of course, Malaysia is a much better run country, with virtually no political or religious issues, no one will try to get all the money they can from you there, and you are perfectly save to walk the streets of any city or town.

You know this because you have lived there for at least a year or more, correct?

TH

sounds like an oppressive governemnt there in Malaysia to me.

[ozzieovaseas]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

It all depends on where you sit I guess.

If you are having such trouble finding staff then i am happy to volunteer my services

hmm, just so long as volunteering doesnt mean i get the same rate of pay as those volunteer police

[livinthailandos]

livininexile I am actually in a similiar position at the moment. I think it would be fair to point out that what I'm about to say is based on my experiences over the last few years regarding tourists and discussions with the guests.

1. Majority of the guests usually fall within the category of the typical day being

a. Mostly getting a suntan

b. A day trip with their travel agency they booked with

c. During the night they walk out to venture for place to eat.

d. The most visited place all tourists visit very often when they get here, and stay here is not a sight seeing but its the family mart or 7-11.

e. renting motorbikes for exploring

f. beyond that is sometimes, watching an a event at the restaurant, or going to the spa, internet use.

usually though but this is us, most of are guests are within range

couples

families

we are in a position were we stayed out of the luxury market. As of now and next few months business is good.

Thailands demise anything in regards to thailands future no magic ball can predict that. Thailand is so silly that almost every month bound to have something happening. Maybe the ultimate question should be right now are your surprised thailand is still here and somehow functioning?

[mommysboy]

Thailand's 'youthful golden years' are finished, and like any teenager it has to take it's place in the adult world, which isn't easy for any of us, let alone a nation rather spoilt by easy dollars for too long and without any discernable talent.

My best guess is a rough few years, then some recovery in to a second rate tourist destination. Certainly, I think the 'fun' will be elswhere.

It's true a lot of expats exaggerate the problems, nonetheless, PROBLEMS THERE ARE, and trying to negate them by pedantic argument will not change that.

[mommysboy]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

It all depends on where you sit I guess.

Agreed.

Is success currently the norm then?

[Thongkorn]

I think it will recover in time , that is in general , But i don't think it will be the same , The Balance is on the move , That is to say that European falangs may not be able to afford to come to Thailand ,I am not talking about people with Big money as they say in Thailand , i am talking about the two/three week millionaires., and people who retire on a basic pension, who can just about afford to stay in Thailand. until the pension drops.They are the ones mostly who give Thailand a bad name.But then again if you go in a stinking toilet you should not complain about the smell ,The future for Thailand is Koreans, Indians, Japanese, And as we know they do not sit in bars long and just get rat faced, they are more family orientated , they come in a group to the Hotel, go out in a group to what ever activity they want to do , so the money only gets to the Big hotels and complexes, The smaller businesses do not get any money going through there bar or shops, maybe Good thing because only the good will survive, and can only make the place better,Thats just my opinion but i hope it does not offend anyone.

[DP25]

It all depends on where you sit I guess.

For the typical Stickman reader or submitter, that would a barstool in Pattaya Soi 6.

[mca]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

So you're either selling Yamaha Finos or amphetamines.

[JR Texas]

The reason is, of course, that Thailand has a serious image problem and it continues to shoot itself in the foot w/ anti-tourist/expat visa rules, high prices, xenophobia, social instability, crime.........etc.

Not to mention the wave after wave of whining expats who post horror stories on internet forums, the fact that they CHOOSE to live in Thailand and have remained in Thailand after years of whinging remains a total mystery, it can't be that bad or they wouldn't be there in their droves.

Hear, hear!

Many have already left with their money..........others are contemplating it..........as for me, I don't always live in Thailand and wonder if Maigo6's post was directed at me........if so, he is off the mark......does not know me..........has no idea what I do or where I live.

It is also odd to embrace the notion that people who point out flaws in Thailand do not like the place........many point out flaws precisely because they like it and want to see positive changes.

It amazes me how the love Thailand or leave it (LTOLVIt) crowd refuses to face reality! The place is going downhill fast. There are problems all over. It does not help anything to keep your heads in the sand.

I suppose the LTOLVIt bunch will not get it until the day comes when they abrogate the grandfathered-in rules..........on that day we will see a major shift in attitude on ThaiVisa.......the LTOLVIt crowd will be reduced in numbers.

Actually, I am looking forward to that day............

[Maigo6]

JRTexas,

If the cap fits wear it.

But jesting apart, I really cannot for the life of me understand people who appear to suffer in Thailand when they have the means and a Passport to go to so many other places. Yes I understand the argument that you love the place so much you spend most of your time at home on an internet forum preaching doom and gloom, god forbid you ever get to dislike Thailand.

Also many of the perpetual whiners may be on their last legs in Thailand in terms of finances, I have certainly met many like that over the years. Everything is hunky dory for them when they are spending money like its gone out of fashion, then when the finances run down or the honeymoon period abates, they then blame Thailand for their loss of the fun factor, it never bothered them when they first arrived though, they were having a blast and were too occupied to complain all the time.

I knew a guy that really hated Thailand and everything about it, and I mean everything, he eventually borrowed enough money for a Ticket back to England, in fact, he was broke and was very bitter at Thailand for what was in fact his own poor planning and wasteful behaviour thinking his few Million Baht was inexhaustable, he had a great 4 years though and thought Thailand was great when he had money. The same guy came into some serious money when his Father died a few years later, and guess what he done ? Yep you got it, he came back to Thailand and thought Thailand was the greatest place on Earth again......

I will say this, most guys I know that are financially sound and have planned well are quite happy, yes of course there are things that could be improved, I'm sure that 99% of Thai people would say the same thing too, go to the UK and 99% of the population will also say the same thing.

I don't think we can escape to the perfect place with perfect people, perfect local population, perfect weather, no crime, no rules, just one long party were everybody is happy and living till they die of old age in their beds.

If such a place existed, we wouldn't be able to afford the entrance fee. Imagine the Visa requirements for such a place

Anyway JR, have a nice day and think about where some people are living and what they are doing right now just to survive, if you put things into perspective, I doubt your life is so bad really.

I do tend to be in the ' If you don't like it don't stay ' crowd, thats because if I didn't like it, I wouldn't be here, simple as that. Guess why I left England, yep you got it, I didn't like it, I would apply the same actions in Thailand if I felt the same way. But hey, that's just my way of thinking.

Cheers anyway, and good luck in the future.

[Livinginexile]

It all depends on your perspective.

From where I am business is booming, we are even having trouble finding staff and our suppliers are having trouble keeping up with orders.

So you're either selling Yamaha Finos or amphetamines.

Neither

I'm in construction.

[stevehaigh]

in the link posted by the OP, stickman says "I was on the phone with my favourite uncle the other day who also happens to be a confidante. I was telling him how bad things are and he implored me to get out saying that even from back in New Zealand he could see that the writing was on the wall. And in his words, "You don't want to leave it too late"."

he makes it sound a pyramid or ponzi scheme where the first ones out run off with all the loot and last ones out get left holding the baby.

what a bunch of BS,! for all its problems (non of which personally effect me) , it wouldn't matter if you were the last farang left in Thailand. ok, maybe it would be harder to find good pizza but the sun will still be shining, the girls still cute, the beer cold and life comfortable and fun.

all this 'the sky is falling' BS is so tiresome. if you don't like it here, bugger off

Agree with you on the uncle bit and the "sky is falling" is tiresome but do you not think the problems there might effect you

sooner or later?...could happen to anyone expat or tourist!

it could in theory get so bad i'd have to leave; something like not allowing Thai wives of farang to own land or no visas longer than a couple of weeks. if that happens i guess i'd move to Lao or something but we are a long way from that point at the moment i think

[JR Texas]

JRTexas,

If the cap fits wear it.

But jesting apart, I really cannot for the life of me understand people who appear to suffer in Thailand when they have the means and a Passport to go to so many other places. Yes I understand the argument that you love the place so much you spend most of your time at home on an internet forum preaching doom and gloom, god forbid you ever get to dislike Thailand.

Also many of the perpetual whiners may be on their last legs in Thailand in terms of finances, I have certainly met many like that over the years. Everything is hunky dory for them when they are spending money like its gone out of fashion, then when the finances run down or the honeymoon period abates, they then blame Thailand for their loss of the fun factor, it never bothered them when they first arrived though, they were having a blast and were too occupied to complain all the time.

I knew a guy that really hated Thailand and everything about it, and I mean everything, he eventually borrowed enough money for a Ticket back to England, in fact, he was broke and was very bitter at Thailand for what was in fact his own poor planning and wasteful behaviour thinking his few Million Baht was inexhaustable, he had a great 4 years though and thought Thailand was great when he had money. The same guy came into some serious money when his Father died a few years later, and guess what he done ? Yep you got it, he came back to Thailand and thought Thailand was the greatest place on Earth again......

I will say this, most guys I know that are financially sound and have planned well are quite happy, yes of course there are things that could be improved, I'm sure that 99% of Thai people would say the same thing too, go to the UK and 99% of the population will also say the same thing.

I don't think we can escape to the perfect place with perfect people, perfect local population, perfect weather, no crime, no rules, just one long party were everybody is happy and living till they die of old age in their beds.

If such a place existed, we wouldn't be able to afford the entrance fee. Imagine the Visa requirements for such a place

Anyway JR, have a nice day and think about where some people are living and what they are doing right now just to survive, if you put things into perspective, I doubt your life is so bad really.

I do tend to be in the ' If you don't like it don't stay ' crowd, thats because if I didn't like it, I wouldn't be here, simple as that. Guess why I left England, yep you got it, I didn't like it, I would apply the same actions in Thailand if I felt the same way. But hey, that's just my way of thinking.

Cheers anyway, and good luck in the future.

Sometimes pent up aggression and delusional thinking can be dealt with by going to a professional.

[tlcwaterfall]

The pinned article is right on target...........it did seem to leave out the obvious xenophobia that is growing in Thailand. I was struck by this:

Thailand, instead of doing everything it can to attract foreign visitors and their money, instead is doing its best to discourage those who do come ever to return....The future in Thailand is bleak indeed. The country is plunging relentlessly and with increasing speed into an abyss, and the really sad thing is that, despite the effects of the recession, a large part of it is self-inflicted.

Thais see themselves and the center of the universe........and they refuse to listen to reason, especially when it comes from the terrible "outsiders." The education system is a disaster.........students do not know how to think rationally.

What I am most fearful about is what will happen when a large cohort of young graduates discover their dreams are just that..........dreams. My guess is that the social chaos we have witnessed recently is nothing compared to what will happen in the future if the status quo is maintained.

And those that rule (a tiny fraction of the population) continue to have no desire to share any of the economic pie with the masses. So, there is no reason to assume the status quo will not be maintained.

In the short term, the economy will likely rebound slightly.......only because the govt. has borrowed money from future generations to pay for large stimulus packages. But that will only be a short term solution.

In the long term, Thailand-Titanic will sick further into the depths.......xenophobia will increase.........and more social chaos/violence will result.

None of this had to happen......that is the sad part.

Funny..everytime theres a thread about the ills of Thailand that little wooden puppet shows up

By your reasoning i suppose the theory that Thais dont want us in their country is feasable:

After all Thais blame us for all the bad things that happen in thailand...decline in values,materialism ect

so why would they want us here? they'd be crazy to invite more trouble

As for the decline in the tourist trade..WELL..once again,its DEFINATELY all OUR fault..see,the thais have got it right again

If my being here is a pain in the butt for Thais i am happy to keep on being one..

At least it keeps me away from those pesky ....... taking over Sydney and Melbourne.

Pesky...... As....? Mu.....? Please tell us more!

[mca]

kangaroos

[Livinginexile]

Expats that moan the loudest about Thailand are usually the "khe nok farangs" with little or no money.

Everyone I know with a well paying job or are self funded retirees are very happy with Thailand just the way it is.

My theory is these farangs are all the anti Thaksin red shirt suporters too. Thaksin started to make it hard for expats with no money to stay in Thailand.

Yes...life is hard in Thailand if you live on a shoe string budget. If one has money life is great!

I love this country.

[JR Texas]

Expats that moan the loudest about Thailand are usually the "khe nok farangs" with little or no money.

Everyone I know with a well paying job or are self funded retirees are very happy with Thailand just the way it is.

My theory is these farangs are all the anti Thaksin red shirt suporters too. Thaksin started to make it hard for expats with no money to stay in Thailand.

Yes...life is hard in Thailand if you live on a shoe string budget. If one has money life is great!

I love this country.

There is an element of truth to that.........but it is only an element of truth. There are people who are financially/emotionally secure who do think Thailand is a sinking ship and raise their voices in order to alter the flow of information (or counter the status quo).

Really, when you think about, that is not odd. I seem to remember a guy who was very wealthy complaining a lot about the state of the country that we now call the United States.......his name was Thomas Jefferson.

And if you know anything about Thailand or can speak and understand Thai, you would also know that there are many well-to-do Thais who are currently voicing their displeasure at the state of the union in Thailand.......no matter what color shirt they wear.

Positive criticism is not confined to any particular social unit.

When you are rich, there is a tendency to ignore the reality of the world surrounding you.

But some people with money are simply more altruistic than others.

[Maigo6]

Sometimes pent up aggression and delusional thinking can be dealt with by going to a professional.

Where do I come across as aggressive ?

I think it's your own inability to actually respond to an argument that puts you in defensive mode, hence you think I am against you, in the same way you think Thailand is against you, in fact it's paranoia................wow, what a surprise for ThaiVisa.....

How I wish I was as unhappy as you.................................

Like I said before, good luck and I hope you have a good time in your new life away from the hel_l you call Thailand.

Feel free to PM me for advice or anything else you may wish to discuss.

I'm 19 years in country and happy, as long as you dont shoot me and hang my head up like a trophy for being that way, I'll give you some guidelines.

Good luck JR.

[Birdman]

Expats that moan the loudest about Thailand are usually the "khe nok farangs" with little or no money.

Everyone I know with a well paying job or are self funded retirees are very happy with Thailand just the way it is.

My theory is these farangs are all the anti Thaksin red shirt suporters too. Thaksin started to make it hard for expats with no money to stay in Thailand.

Yes...life is hard in Thailand if you live on a shoe string budget. If one has money life is great!

I love this country.

There is an element of truth to that.........but it is only an element of truth. There are people who are financially/emotionally secure who do think Thailand is a sinking ship and raise their voices in order to alter the flow of information (or counter the status quo).

Really, when you think about, that is not odd. I seem to remember a guy who was very wealthy complaining a lot about the state of the country that we now call the United States.......his name was Thomas Jefferson.

And if you know anything about Thailand or can speak and understand Thai, you would also know that there are many well-to-do Thais who are currently voicing their displeasure at the state of the union in Thailand.......no matter what color shirt they wear.

Positive criticism is not confined to any particular social unit.

When you are rich, there is a tendency to ignore the reality of the world surrounding you.

But some people with money are simply more altruistic than others.

If I were you, Texas, I would have managed to live in a completely other country long time already and forget about the bad years before. Don't suffer, raise the anchor, move on on and be happy.

[jpolten]

Agree with you on the uncle bit and the "sky is falling" is tiresome but do you not think the problems there might effect you

sooner or later?...could happen to anyone expat or tourist!

So save yourself. Flee now before it's too late!

No need for me to flee,i'm not there,but spend a lot of time there and keep an eye on Thailand through TV because i plan to stop there some day!

Ok...every country has its problems, don't get me wrong,i love LOS,for me the good things out weigh the bad.The only problem i had there (besides the

small scams) was with a farang who tried to cause some trouble,police were involved and found nothing,but it could have been very different!

All the bad news coming out of thailand is reaching every corner of the planet and causing people to look elsewhere for their holiday.....

Tourism down=unemployment=crime...i know tourism is not the only source they have but its a big one and think about how many people work

in the tourism industry in one form or another,how many have lost their jobs or are about to?

The one thing you should be able to rely on when abroad is the police,but sometimes the police are the ones you have to watch...........

i agree if you do wrong you should be punished but some of the things happening there involving the police is crazy!

I really hope Thailand can sort its problems out, its for her own sake! because as far as i can see her problems are like a cancer and if left untreated

they're only going to get worse! Someone with a pair of balls needs to lead the country and put things in order because at the end of the day its the thai

people who'll suffer

[Maigo6]

[ Someone with a pair of balls needs to lead the country and put things in order because at the end of the day its the thai

people who'll suffer

And that keeps you awake at night right ?

J, you come across as a nice enough guy to me, and I respect your posts, you must know that Thailand ain't gonna change in the forseeable future, will that stop you going to Thailand ?

Farangs are a very fickle lot, I was stopped a few days ago doing 160 kph in a 90 Kph limit road, I was stopped paid the 200 baht fine ( Policemans pocket ) and was away within 60 seconds, all very civilised.

Many Farangs compalin about corruption, but when they are done for excessive speeding whilst pizzsd outta their heads and drive away with a 4 - 500 Baht tea money bribe, I'm quite sure they are more than happy.

PS. This does not apply to ThaiVisa members as I know they are different and never ever break any laws and would rather face the axeman than pay a bribe and walk away.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Maigo6

[sunholidaysun1]

Moderators , Please close, enough has been said and there isnt anything else to say . Thanks to all for your contributions.