Dual Passports

[donx]

A recent tale, two weeks ago in fact.

We had a nice holiday in Los, the wife as usual leaving UK on UK passport and entering Thailand on her Thai passport. All fine until we turned up to go home at check in desk...problem wife's Thai passport was out of date, on inspection it had expired one week before we entered. Airline said no way could she leave on UK passport, a bit of an argument ensued and we got taken through to see immigration who hummed and haa'ed a liitle and said ok they would allow it. Went back to check in with immigration who said ok to complete consternation of check in staff, I'm ear-wigging conversation and turns out flight was overbooked and they had let the seat go to a standby passenger. Supervisor disappears and returns with another immigration officer who says no we can't travel. I start to copy his name down from his badge which he then promptly covers up and tells me I can,t have his name. "Why not?" Answer, wait for it, ...."Because I'm on duty" !!!

I'm going to truncate this as I'm still might p***ed off about the whole thing but it ended up with the wife having to spend another 6 days in Bangkok getting another passport and paying out £200 for flight change and me & daughter flying home alone.

Moral of the story is I guess, if you only fish that Thai passport out of the drawer for trips home like us, do check the expiry date as it won't be checked if your leaving the UK on your British passport and you certainly can't rely on them telling you, or more likely, even noticing its expired when you get to immigration in Thailand. And remember unlike the UK passport its only valid for 5 years, that was our undoing.

For what its worth my wife's uncle who is a pretty high civil servant later contacted immigration who told him that the immigration officers can use their discretion in such cases and will usually allow travel. But its the golden rule you should never break....make sure an airline never has a chance to bump you if they are overbooked, because sure as hel_l they will to avoid having to compensate passengers whose docs are in order. Incidentally another of the passengers bumped had her UK leave to remain in old passport and not in her new passport, a common occurrence and usually no problem but was on this occasion.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Nevertheless your story does appear to confirm that it is possible to enter Thailand with an expired Thai passport. Isn't this what happened with your wife? I'm surprized that on entry it wasn't pointed out that your wife's passport had already expired.

Given this information, the OP's friend could enter Thailand with the expired passport (assuming it isn't damaged), renew it there, then use it when leaving Thailand the next time.

[roamer]

A recent tale, two weeks ago in fact.

We had a nice holiday in Los, the wife as usual leaving UK on UK passport and entering Thailand on her Thai passport. All fine until we turned up to go home at check in desk...problem wife's Thai passport was out of date, on inspection it had expired one week before we entered. Airline said no way could she leave on UK passport, a bit of an argument ensued and we got taken through to see immigration who hummed and haa'ed a liitle and said ok they would allow it. Went back to check in with immigration who said ok to complete consternation of check in staff, I'm ear-wigging conversation and turns out flight was overbooked and they had let the seat go to a standby passenger. Supervisor disappears and returns with another immigration officer who says no we can't travel. I start to copy his name down from his badge which he then promptly covers up and tells me I can,t have his name. "Why not?" Answer, wait for it, ...."Because I'm on duty" !!!

I'm going to truncate this as I'm still might p***ed off about the whole thing but it ended up with the wife having to spend another 6 days in Bangkok getting another passport and paying out £200 for flight change and me & daughter flying home alone.

Moral of the story is I guess, if you only fish that Thai passport out of the drawer for trips home like us, do check the expiry date as it won't be checked if your leaving the UK on your British passport and you certainly can't rely on them telling you, or more likely, even noticing its expired when you get to immigration in Thailand. And remember unlike the UK passport its only valid for 5 years, that was our undoing.

For what its worth my wife's uncle who is a pretty high civil servant later contacted immigration who told him that the immigration officers can use their discretion in such cases and will usually allow travel. But its the golden rule you should never break....make sure an airline never has a chance to bump you if they are overbooked, because sure as hel_l they will to avoid having to compensate passengers whose docs are in order. Incidentally another of the passengers bumped had her UK leave to remain in old passport and not in her new passport, a common occurrence and usually no problem but was on this occasion.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Nevertheless your story does appear to confirm that it is possible to enter Thailand with an expired Thai passport. Isn't this what happened with your wife? I'm surprized that on entry it wasn't pointed out that your wife's passport had already expired.

Given this information, the OP's friend could enter Thailand with the expired passport (assuming it isn't damaged), renew it there, then use it when leaving Thailand the next time.

I follow your reasoning and I don,t foresee a problem entering on an expired passport. But bear this in mind, if the OP's friend is coming back to work in LOS I assume she is going to use a one way ticket, so at the UK check-in she will no doubt be asked to show either a visa to enter Thailand, often asked for if you have a one-way ticket, or her Thai passport and that's expired. 9 times out of 10 no problem but as I pointed out if a flight is overbooked airlines invariably work to strict guidelines and will use any irregularity as an excuse to bump.

I wish her luck. After our experience I know what I would be doing

[donx]

I wish her luck. After our experience I know what I would be doing

I agree. I check all of our Thai and US passports at least 6 months before we travel. Before this summer, we ended up having to renew 1 US passport, renew 3 Thai passports and apply for a new Thai passport. It's very important to have this stuff taken care of well in advance of any travel.

[clinique]

Hello guys,

Been following this thread carefully but still unclear. So I'm sorry if I make you go over this again. I am in a similar boat with KT's friend. I entered Thailand with my US Passport and while here I got a new Thai Passport. What will happen if I leave Thailand using my new Thai Passport with no entry stamp? Will it cause a problem with US Customs or Thai Customs, if any?

You will not have a problem getting back into the states or leaving here.

The problem will be that yoo will have an entry into Thailand that does not show a departure in your US passport.

Best to use the US passport when you leave.

as i understand it,

you must enter and leave any country on the same passport, when youget to your destination you can use another one.

you CANNOT enter on one passport and leave on another..

anyone care to differ ?

[seasider]

*** UPDATE ***

I thought it was worth bringing back this topic with an update, it's complicated and on-going, so i would suggest to anyone replying that they read the whole topic and the some of the in-depth replies first. I will try and include everything in the right sequence. Ok, here goes.........

Firstly, the person concerned (Thai female) COULD NOT renew her Thai passport in the UK. She delayed her return with some inconvenience, BUT she needed her Thai ID card and it was either expired/damaged/lost, i cant quite remember which one as it was some time ago, but she could not renew her Thai passport in the UK.

Secondly, she DID book a ONE WAY ticket back to Thailand (some posters were saying she would need to show an on-going ticket). She left the Uk on her UK passport with no problem, travelling with Eva Air.

Upon arriving at Swampy she explained her situation to immigration,they said she COULD NOT use her Thai passport to enter Thailand. Her passport was valid (not expired) BUT was very badly damaged, so she enterd Thailand on her UK passport (30 days). They suggested she should get a new Thai passport in Thailand and leave and re-enter as i , and other posters have suggested.

She then renewed/replaced her Thai ID card (she was already on her familys house registration book/Tabien Baan). She then renewed her Thai passport.

She then left Thailand on her British passport at the Arunyaprathet/Poipet land border, entered Cambodia and then left Cambodia on her British passport.

Heres where it gets interesting.................. When trying to enter Thailand on her new Thai passport, she was REFUSED entry. There was two reasons given- that she could not leave on her UK passport and re-enter Thailand on her new Thai passport ( i think Samran called this, so fair play there). I did warn her this might happen. Secondly, that there is now a NEW LAW IN PLACE FROM OCTOBER THAT DUAL CITIZENSHIP IS NO LONGER ALLOWED AND THAT SHE MUST CHOOSE ONE NATIONALITY!!!

Now, before everyone says thats rubbish (because i believe it might be too), could anyone establish if there has recently been a change in the dual nationality rules/laws?

Apparently,a furious argument developed but Thai immigration would not back down and even showed her a letter/document referring to the dual nationality law change.

I know, and indeed many poster on here know that this does apply to certain countries, i.e: Germany, Japan etc.

Anyway, for one or both of the above reasons she had to re-enter Thailand on her British passport and only received a 15 day stamp (land border). Immigration advised her that she could try departing Thailand and re-entering by air, rather than a land border crossing. WOULD SHE HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS IF SHE LEAVES AND RE-ENTERS BY AIR?

Apparently , now she doesn't have the funds to leave by air, so either needs to borrow some money to do this or just overstay indefintely(and effectively become a farang lol).

The whole situation has become a bit of a mess and im sure nobody on here would want their spouse/partner to go through all this so it might be worth taking note of what has happened to her. Im sure the Dual nationality law change would be of interest to many, it probably deserves its own thread.

Personally, i dont believe it and i think the immigration officer was just fobbing her off just, (anything for a quiet life) but does anyone actually know if this could be true?

Sorry if the post is long but its quite a long,complicated sequence of events and i wanted it to be as accurate as possible.

Thanks for any useful replies in advance.

[samran]

leave by air using the brit passport, come back in on the Thai passport. Do it via Suvanabhumi.

Indeed there is a new version of the nationality law, passed in 2007. The new law however didn't change the fundamental workings of the Thai nationality act. It only got rid of gender discrimnatory clauses and it also extended citizenship rights to people born in Thailand between 1972 and 1992 to non Thai parents.

Having said that, the law is consisently mis read, as it was in the case of your friend.

Hop a cheap flight down to Singapore and come back the same day re-entering on the Thai passport.

My sister re-entered Thailand this time last year on a London issued Thai passport, the first Thai passport she'd used in 2 decades without a problem. You have a much higher chance of the immigration officals knowing what is what there than at the poipet land border.

nb...all a bit strange that the Thai embassy in London was a bit difficult. My sister got hers there off the back of a 20 year old passport and a faxed copy of her house registration!

Edited December 14, 2009 by samran

[seasider]

leave by air using the brit passport, come back in on the Thai passport. Do it via Suvanabhumi.

Indeed there is a new version of the nationality law, passed in 2007. The new law however didn't change the fundamental workings of the Thai nationality act. It only got rid of gender discrimnatory clauses and it also extended citizenship rights to people born in Thailand between 1972 and 1992 to non Thai parents.

Having said that, the law is consisently mis read, as it was in the case of your friend.

Hop a cheap flight down to Singapore and come back the same day re-entering on the Thai passport.

My sister re-entered Thailand this time last year on a London issued Thai passport, the first Thai passport she'd used in 2 decades without a problem. You have a much higher chance of the immigration officals knowing what is what there than at the poipet land border.

nb...all a bit strange that the Thai embassy in London was a bit difficult. My sister got hers there off the back of a 20 year old passport and a faxed copy of her house registration!

Sometimes i think people can make hard work of things, maybe they don't use due dilligence or they are a bit sloppy. Personally, i never had any problems with any visas or anything else in all my years in Thailand(some time ago now), nor when i helped my wife apply for ILR,British Citizenship etc.

I forget to mention that she recently changed her name, think that might have been why she couldn't renew her passport in the UK iirc. She needed to do a name change on her id card and also on her house registration. That sounds right now, wasn't sure if it was her ID that had expired but i think it was because she changed her name in the Uk and therefore had to go change her name on her ID card/house registration in Thailand. Obviously she wouldn,t be able to get a new passport in her name if her Id card/Tabien Baan were still in her old name.