How Many Of Thailand's Prime Ministers Were/are Of Chinese Decent?

[EffectiveAnger]

How Many of Thailand's Prime Ministers were/are of Chinese Decent? I wanted to answer this trivial pursuit question, but I only got up to 1980 and I couldn't find the ancestry of a few of the PMs. I started to make this list by cutting and pasting from wikipedia. My comments are in brackets. So here is the list:

Abhisit Vejjajiva

Abhisit was born in Newcastle, in the United Kingdom to Dr. Athasit Vejjajiva and Dr. Sodsai Vejjajiva

The Vejjajivas are members of a prominent family of Thai Chinese (Hakka) origin that maintained good relationships with the Thai ruling elite from as early as the late 18^th century. The family's Chinese surname is Yuan (Chinese: 袁; pinyin: Yuán) In the reign of Rama VI, the surname "Vejjajiva was bestowed upon Yuan-clan Lopburi provincial physician Sub-Lieutenant Dr. Long (Thai: หลง), his father and grandfather.

Chaovarat Chanweerakul

^{[Caretaker PM and I have no info.]}

Somchai Wongsawat

Somchai was born at Amphoe Chawang, Nakhon Si Thammarat Province, a son of Mr Choem (Thai: เจิม) and Mrs Dap (Thai: ดับ) Wongsawat

[He appears to be of Chinese decent and with a surname that starts with “Wong” I can only assume that he has Chinese roots.]

Samak Sundaravej

Samak was born in Bangkok, He is of Chinese descent (ancestral surname Lee (李)).

Surayud Chulanont

Surayud came from a long line of military leaders, and was reported to have some Chinese ancestry

Sonthi Boonyaratglin

He is the first Muslim in charge of the mostly Buddhist army. On 19 September 2006, he became the de facto head of government of Thailand after overthrowing the elected government in a coup d'état.

[Where was he born? Is he from the south and ethnic Malay?]

Thaksin Shinawatra

Thaksin was born in San Kamphaeng, Chiang Mai

Thaksin's great-great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu was a Hakka Chinese immigrant from Meizhou, Guangdong who arrived in Siam in the 1860s and settled in Chiang Mai in 1908.

Chuan Leekpai

A third-generation Thai Chinese His father's name was Niyom Leekpai and his mother's name was Tuan Leekpai. They were half-Chinese parents like most Trang locals.

Chavalit Yongchaiyudh

is of Sino-Thai and Lao descent

Sino-, a prefix used to refer to China.

Banharn Silpa-Archa

Born in Suphanburi Province, he is a Thai Chinese,^[3] with ancestry from Chaoyang.^[4] Part of his Thai name, Archa (อาชา), is a translation of his Chinese surname, Mǎ (馬), meaning "horse".

Suchinda Kraprayoon

Suchinda, son of Juang and Sompong Kraprayoon, was born 6 August 1933 in the province of Nakhon Pathom, Thailand, and is of Chinese and Mon descent.

Anand Panyarachun

Anand was the youngest child of twelve children of a rich family of Mon heritage from his father's side and Thai-Chinese (Hokkien) from his mother's. According to Anand himself, Anand inherited his Chinese heritage from his maternal grandmother, whose surname was Lau (Chinese: 刘).

Chatichai Choonhavan

He was the only son of Field Marshal Phin Choonhavan, and is of Thai Chinese descent

Prem Tinsulanonda

General(ret.) Prem Tinsulanonda (Thai: เปรม ติณสูลานนท์, born August 26, 1920) is a retired Thai military officer who served as Prime Minister of Thailand from March 3, 1980 to August 4, 1988. He now serves as the Head of the Privy Council of the King of Thailand, Bhumibol Adulyadej. Born in Songkhla Province,

After political unrest in 1988, Prem dissolved the parliament and called for general election. After the general election, leaders of winning political parties asked Prem to continue his premiership, but Prem refused. Consequently Chatchai Chunhawan, head of Chart Thai Party, was chosen to be the new prime minister. King Bhumibol eventually granted him 'the statesmanship' that year. Prem, as the head of the royal Privy Council has a full Thai citizenship.

______________________________________________________________________________

That's as far as I got. So I'm wondering about the ethnic decent of Somchai, Chaovarat and Sonthi.

Why is any of this important? Because it has everything to do with the constant instablity of the country. Who's running this show? As far as I can infer, we have to go back to 1980-1988 when Thailand had a true ethnic Thai as a PM and even after he stepped down (from instablity) he was asked to stay put. Now, he's the head of the Privy Council.

Things are starting to make a whole lot of sense here. I can see the pattern. Anyone else see it too?

Edited August 31, 2009 by EffectiveAnger

[Moonrakers]

This was a trivial pursuit question?

Somehow I don't believe you, you are just trolling for something else aren't you?

[EffectiveAnger]

This was a trivial pursuit question?

Somehow I don't believe you, you are just trolling for something else aren't you?

'Trivial pursuit' was used metaphorically.

Trolling? No! This topic is of interest to me and it might be of interest to others, especially those who know and/or study Thai history, politics and so forth.

[LaoPo]

[/b]Why is any of this important? Because it has everything to do with the constant instablity of the country. Who's running this show? As far as I can infer, we have to go back to 1980-1988 when Thailand had a true ethnic Thai as a PM and even after he stepped down (from instablity) he was asked to stay put. Now, he's the head of the Privy Council.

Things are starting to make a whole lot of sense here. I can see the pattern. Anyone else see it too?[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]

What do you consider to be a true ethnic Thai ? After 2, 3 or more generations ?

Many (now considered to be) Thai are of foreign descent: Khmer, Chinese, Burmese, Mon etc. and one could ask the same question: who's a true Ozzie, American, Canadian....?

It's also believed that original ethnic Thai emigrated to other parts in the region

Here's a list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime...ers_of_Thailand

The second ever Thai Prime Minister, Phot Phahonyothin, in 1933, had a Chinese father and Thai mother. Was he Thai or Chinese in your eyes...? Meaning: The Jews believe that the children are Jewish if the mother is Jewish but they're not if the father is.

Note: try to be careful when you "see a pattern"....before you know you end up in a racist thread.

Thailand's history is a VERY old one and it's present borders are not the ones many centuries ago. Your presumption: "I can see the pattern" is tricky; very tricky!

Even ancient Royalty wasn't always 100% Thai.

LaoPo

[EffectiveAnger]

I dun know what you are trying to infer but most Thais have at least some Chinese ethnicity in their bloodlines. The very first king of Thailand was of Chinese ancestry and even the present King has chinese blood

I don't know, but according to the CIA World Fact book:

"About 75% of the population is ethnically Thai, 14% is of Chinese origin, and 3% is ethnically Malay;^[3]"

I guess it depends how far back you want to go, 50,000 years or more?

[Moonrakers]

This was a trivial pursuit question?

Somehow I don't believe you, you are just trolling for something else aren't you?

'Trivial pursuit' was used metaphorically.

Trolling? No! This topic is of interest to me and it might be of interest to others, especially those who know and/or study Thai history, politics and so forth.

Apologies, I mis-read your post.

As to the question well, errrm......

I still don't see what it matters, perhaps others here will be more interested.

[Heng]

I can't name them all, but I bet they all liked to eat rice too. Conspiracy? You decide.

[anothertorres]

I still don't see what it matters, perhaps others here will be more interested.

not to get involved or anything but... why are you giving him shit? it's just the internet and it can't be nashville every night...

[otherstuff1957]

If you ask my wife if she is Thai she will say yes without hesitating.

One of her grandfathers came from Vientiane and she doesn't know if he was half Lao and half Chinese or all Chinese. The other Grandfather was from "the south", though she never could tell me if he was Malay or Indonesian. Her maternal grandmother's surname was Bunnaq, Which means that she was descended from a Persian man who settled in Siam about 400 years ago.

But she's Thai , 100% Thai!

[CarlBkk]

I think the OP's post is interesting and informative. It highlights in yet another way how the Chinese have such influence within this country from the late 1800s onwards. Some go as far as to say Thailand was unofficially colonised. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it does seem to look as though a "dominant" race of immigrants came, multiplied, stayed and went to the top in financial, social and political terms. The evidence of this is all around. Nothing racist, just observations but the institutions where the Chinese gene is curiously less apparent are the police and military, but even then in the top echelons it may be a different story.

[PeaceBlondie]

I live where all the locals learned some Yunnan dialect of Chinese as their native language, not Thai, as least up until 30 or 40 years ago. After 210 years, are they still Chinese? Apparently. Are they also very loyal Thais? Yes.

[Rinrada]

Allowing for the fact that its always being suggested that "real Thais" have been constantly moaning about never been colonised and yet have such a hang up on foreigners nicking their bits of land ,integrity,culture,traditions,women etc ...then just blame the Chinese....but cant do that....eh....coz ...wot...well they aint REAL foreigners are they...and of course... err ...they look like us ,own everything and with that as we all understand comes wealth money and power.

I have discussed this on occasion with wiffee also and its still a case (albiet not shouted)...he is 100% Thai but he (any other) is obviously half...usually Chinese ..

So does it matter....what is the difference? ..All Thais tend to give the same answer so ...no need to elaborate..

Even over "er although I have resided in this green and pleasant land on and off for the best part of 40 years I would never wish to be considered (or want to be).... English....Who Cares nowadays....

Good topic as long as the Dumbos dont try and hi jact it with their....ethnic racist garbish

[EffectiveAnger]

Some real interesting information on wikipedia about Thailand's 2nd Prime Minister Plaek Pibulsonggram

[..was Prime Minister and military dictator of Thailand from 1938 to 1944 and 1948 to 1957.

"Aimed to uplift the national spirit and moral code of the nation and instilling progressive tendencies and a newness into Thai life", a series of Cultural Mandates were issued by the government. These mandates encouraged that all Thais were to salute the flag in public places, know the new national anthem (written by Wichitwathakarn), and use the Thai language, not regional dialects. People were encouraged to adopt western attire, as opposed to the traditional dress of Thai men and women. In Pibulsonggram's perspective, these policies were necessary for Thailand to change the minds of foreigners that Thailand was an undeveloped and barbaric country. In the interest in progressivism, Thailand needed to be recognised by foreigners as a civilized and modernized country.

In 1939, Pibulsonggram changed the country's name from Siam to Thailand. In 1941, in the midst of World War II, he decreed January 1 the official start of the new year instead of the traditional April 13. On 5 August 1941, Thailand joined a group of nations that recognized the puppet state of Manchukuo.

His administration also encouraged economic nationalism, in which the Thai people were to purchase as many Thai products as possible and therefore destroy the Chinese proportion in markets. Anti-Chinese policies were imposed. In a speech in 1938, Luang Wichitwathakan compared the Chinese in Siam to the Jews in Germany.

...

Pibulsonggram's anti-Chinese campaign was resumed, with the government restricting Chinese immigration and undertaking various measures to restrict economic domination of the Thai market by those of Chinese descent. Chinese schools and associations were once again shut down. Despite open pro-western and anti-Chinese policies, in the late 1950s Pibulsonggram arranged to send to China two of the children of Sang Phathanothai, his closest advisor, with the intention of establishing a backdoor channel for dialogue between China and Thailand. The girl, aged eight, and her brother, aged twelve, were sent to be brought up under the assistants of Premier Zhou Enlai as his wards.]

Take a look at this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thai_culture_poster.PNG

Thai poster from the Marshal Plaek era, noting prohibited "uncivilised" dress on the left, and proper western dress on the right

Now I took at look at that picture and I was shocked, stunned and speechless for a minute. What we see on the left is the traditional wear of the Cambodians. It was the same traditional dress for the Thai? And this dictator PM with a western education did everything he could to stamp it out of the country in order to give Thailand a better image for Westerners?! At the same time, he was very anti-Chinese, but willing to establish diologue with China.

I'm getting pieces of the puzzle here. It's starting to take shape. Take another good look at that picture and see on the right how those styles are what you see on almost every other Thai on the street today? Those are the same uniform styles you see on the school children!

Edited August 31, 2009 by EffectiveAnger

[Bukseeda]

I think the OP's post is interesting and informative. It highlights in yet another way how the Chinese have such influence within this country from the late 1800s onwards. Some go as far as to say Thailand was unofficially colonised. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it does seem to look as though a "dominant" race of immigrants came, multiplied, stayed and went to the top in financial, social and political terms. The evidence of this is all around. Nothing racist, just observations but the institutions where the Chinese gene is curiously less apparent are the police and military, but even then in the top echelons it may be a different story.

I agree. It's well-known that Chinese dominate business and the economy. In fact, I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a kind of unspoken agreement that the Chinese remained in business and ethnic Thais ran the government and civil service and that this has changed in the last couple of decades.

I think what the OP raises is interesting. Has there been a shift in the last couple of decades? I am struggling to remember what I read but i'm sure it was something along the lines of as Thailand's economy grew in the 70s and 80s that the business leaders (invariably Chinese) became more interested in politics.

As for a large proportion of Thais having Chinese in them that's undoubtedly true; however, there are a segment of the population, the Thai Chinese, whose ancestry is predominately chinese. Many Thai Chinese don't want their children to marry Thais let alone foreigners.

[Time Traveller]

I'm wondering why all foreigners in Thailand are so concerned with race? Most people I know don't care the race of another person. Is race important in other countries e.g USA and negro/white race?

[Bukseeda]

I'm wondering why all foreigners in Thailand are so concerned with race? Most people I know don't care the race of another person. Is race important in other countries e.g USA and negro/white race?

As i said a lot of thai-chinese families don't like their offspring marrying 100% ethnic Thais - if that's not concern about race I don't know what is.

[moe666]

Travel thru any country in asia and there is chinese influence. The chinese have been traveling, trading, and settling thru out asia for hundreds of years, always looking for oppertunity. At present there are large numbers of chinese traders in Africa always looking for new oppertunity.

The last big riots in Indonesia were targeted at ethic chinese many killed, raped and businesses destroyed. I have a friend here whose family is from Indonesia but he is definately chinese.

So nothing unusual about the many people in Thailand of chinese background, always looking for new oppertunity.

[Chinavet]

"arranged to send to China two of the children of Sang Phathanothai, his closest advisor, with the intention of establishing a backdoor channel for dialogue between China and Thailand. The girl, aged eight, and her brother, aged twelve, were sent to be brought up under the assistants of Premier Zhou Enlai as his wards.]"

The biography 'The Dragon's Pearl' written by that 8 year old daughter is a great read and insight into the politics of the time.

[somluck]

I dun know what you are trying to infer but most Thais have at least some Chinese ethnicity in their bloodlines. The very first king of Thailand was of Chinese ancestry and even the present King has chinese blood

I don't know, but according to the CIA World Fact book:

"About 75% of the population is ethnically Thai, 14% is of Chinese origin, and 3% is ethnically Malay;^[3]"

I guess it depends how far back you want to go, 50,000 years or more?

Not that far back, around 1000 years ago

History of Thailand

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The history of Thailand begins with the migration of the Thais from their ancestral home in southern China into mainland southeast Asia around the 10th century AD.

[Bukseeda]

Travel thru any country in asia and there is chinese influence. The chinese have been traveling, trading, and settling thru out asia for hundreds of years, always looking for oppertunity. At present there are large numbers of chinese traders in Africa always looking for new oppertunity.

The last big riots in Indonesia were targeted at ethic chinese many killed, raped and businesses destroyed. I have a friend here whose family is from Indonesia but he is definately chinese.

So nothing unusual about the many people in Thailand of chinese background, always looking for new oppertunity.

I agree with you. But it's interesting from a socio-economic history point of view how attitudes change over time. In certain periods in Thai history there has been anti-Chinese sentiment whereas now the winds have changed.

I also find it interesting that when I moved to Thailand ('98), a lot of soap stars/pop stars/models were look-krung (half caucasian). By the time I left in '06, the Chinese look was more fashionable. As for what is now I don't know.

[Bukseeda]

I dun know what you are trying to infer but most Thais have at least some Chinese ethnicity in their bloodlines. The very first king of Thailand was of Chinese ancestry and even the present King has chinese blood

I don't know, but according to the CIA World Fact book:

"About 75% of the population is ethnically Thai, 14% is of Chinese origin, and 3% is ethnically Malay;^[3]"

I guess it depends how far back you want to go, 50,000 years or more?

Not that far back, around 1000 years ago

History of Thailand

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The history of Thailand begins with the migration of the Thais from their ancestral home in southern China into mainland southeast Asia around the 10th century AD.

Interestingly this is disputed by some Thai historians although I personnally believe the evidence is there.

I think what the OP is referring to though is the Chinese immigrants and their descendants from the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries.

[hansnl]

This thread might be construed as not relevant, not interesting, dangerous, and is done so by some members.

However, as stated, 15% of the Thai population is considered to being of Chinese descent.

Which means that the Chinese ARE indeed a minority in Thailand, the other 85%, whoever they are, consider themselves to be real 100% Thai.

It has happened in a lot of other countries in Asia (Indonesia, Malaysia, and Burma at the moment) that on a certain point in time the "original" population did not accept the predominance of the Chinese in business, ownership, politics and so on.

The idea of the Chinese bringing jobs, business, money to the country was also heard in the countries where the Chinese were "checked" before the "checking".

Same what you hear here in Thailand and in this thread: they bring jobs, money, business.........

Even so, there might come a point the "original" population wants a bigger share of the pie, don't want to be inferior, or whatever reason may be cooked up by those who feel that it is maybe time for some realignement of business.

So maybe this thread is interesting and relevant.

[hansnl]

I'm wondering why all foreigners in Thailand are so concerned with race? Most people I know don't care the race of another person. Is race important in other countries e.g USA and negro/white race?

Race and religion will always be important issues, wherever in the world.

All the politically correctness cannot take that away.

I know!

[Bukseeda]

This thread might be construed as not relevant, not interesting, dangerous, and is done so by some members.

However, as stated, 15% of the Thai population is considered to being of Chinese descent.

Which means that the Chinese ARE indeed a minority in Thailand, the other 85%, whoever they are, consider themselves to be real 100% Thai.

It has happened in a lot of other countries in Asia (Indonesia, Malaysia, and Burma at the moment) that on a certain point in time the "original" population did not accept the predominance of the Chinese in business, ownership, politics and so on.

The idea of the Chinese bringing jobs, business, money to the country was also heard in the countries where the Chinese were "checked" before the "checking".

Same what you hear here in Thailand and in this thread: they bring jobs, money, business.........

Even so, there might come a point the "original" population wants a bigger share of the pie, don't want to be inferior, or whatever reason may be cooked up by those who feel that it is maybe time for some realignement of business.

So maybe this thread is interesting and relevant.

My fiancee's father changed their Chinese surname to a Thai one back in teh seventies because as a recent law graduate it was easier to get work with a Thai surname back then. I think it is testament to how well the Chinese have managed to integrate into Thai society that there were no issues in Thailand after the 1997 Asian economic crisis. In other Asian countries such as Malaysia, the Chinese were often vilified.

[Heng]

Kind of like trying to close the barn door now that you've sold the farms, pretty much all of them for that matter.

[Heng]

My fiancee's father changed their Chinese surname to a Thai one back in teh seventies because as a recent law graduate it was easier to get work with a Thai surname back then.

Plenty of folks also never changed their Chinese surname. For others, they just merged their Chinese names into Thai names, but not really adopting a Thai name. It's a common but incorrect assumption that it was a universal mandate. The powers that were might have wanted it, but in practice (as is the case nowadays), intent and application of the law is rarely ever one and the same.

[EvilDrSomkid]

I think this an extremely interesting subject. It has its traps and dangers, but it should be possible to stay away from racist remarks.

IIRC Sonthi is a Malay. Plenty of Chinese down that way, too.

It was not clear to me whether Prem has Chinese ancestry, but I do opine that HE is the one running the show in this country. The master of puppets as it where. Too many rumours he is/was behind the PAD and the '06 coup. Of course, discuss a certain family and people connected to it is stepping on even thinner ice.

What I find ironic is all the hubbub now about foreigner ownership of (agricultural) land in the LOS. I read somewhere that 85% of land is owned by 1% of the population. The most affluent parts of the Thai population are mostly ethnic Chinese.

The Thai culture poster is very interesting in that one of the women on the left has uncovered breasts. The woman to the right is covered. Was this normal in Siam of old? I cannot say if the dress looks Khmer.

Might it have something to do with married women or mother walk with uncovered tops or is it a class thing?

Edited August 31, 2009 by EvilDrSomkid

[Bukseeda]

My fiancee's father changed their Chinese surname to a Thai one back in teh seventies because as a recent law graduate it was easier to get work with a Thai surname back then.

Plenty of folks also never changed their Chinese surname. For others, they just merged their Chinese names into Thai names, but not really adopting a Thai name. It's a common but incorrect assumption that it was a universal mandate. The powers that were might have wanted it, but in practice (as is the case nowadays), intent and application of the law is rarely ever one and the same.

It wasn't mandated. He just felt it would be advantageous. On a side note, they're at it again. The grandfather's brother has just been granted a new name which is "na something" by the King (he owns one of the sugar companies - forget which one). As this new name is of higher status my fiancee's brother is expected to adopt it as he will pass on the family name. They still seem to be ignoring the fact that he is gay.

[Bukseeda]

I think this an extremely interesting subject. It has its traps and dangers, but it should be possible to stay away from racist remarks.

IIRC Sonthi is a Malay. Plenty of Chinese down that way, too.

It was not clear to me whether Prem has Chinese ancestry, but I do opine that HE is the one running the show in this country. The master of puppets as it where. Too many rumours he is/was behind the PAD and the '06 coup. Of course, discuss a certain family and people connected to it is stepping on even thinner ice.

What I find ironic is all the hubbub now about foreigner ownership of (agricultural) land in the LOS. I read somewhere that 85% of land is owned by 1% of the population. The most affluent parts of the Thai population are mostly ethnic Chinese.

The Thai culture poster is very interesting in that one of the women on the left has uncovered breasts. The woman to the right is covered. Was this normal in Siam of old? I cannot say if the dress looks Khmer.

Might it have something to do with married women or mother walk with uncovered tops or is it a class thing?

I have seen photographs in a museum (it may have been in Udon). The photograph was turn of the century and was of a government official from bangkok greeting locals some of whom were bare-breasted. At the time i was teaching at AUA and discussed it with the class. One middle-aged very conservative student accused me of making it up - one of the Thammasat students brought photographs in the following week which showed Thais walking to the market in Chiang Mai. The woman in the centre of the picture was carrying something on her head and was bare-breasted.

[Bukseeda]

INcidentally, the reason there were fears of Chinese influence in the 70s and 80s was related to a perceived Communist threat.