How Many Of Thailand's Prime Ministers Were/are Of Chinese Decent?

[mca]

I'm glad you've popped up Heng! Going off topic a little but what's the status of the Indians I see round my way? I've never given it much thought before. Small business owners. Spouses appear to be Indian too. Is it a case of way back their fathers or grandfathers obtaining Thai citizenship or are they some sort of "under the radar" group like the Burmese factory workers in Khon Kaen.

[Heng]

Hi MCA.

Thai Indians use the same playbook the Thai Chinese do, generally successful, only on a smaller scale. There are plenty of old school 100+ year old Thai Indian families. Sure, just like the Chinese plenty of the more recent immigrants are 'under the radar,' but like the Chinese community these outsiders often are aided by those already established here.

[mca]

Cheers for the info.

[EffectiveAnger]

Some unrelated thoughts:

I have always thought it was exceedingly clever -- and wrong -- that foreigners (Chinese) "become Thai" then work their way to the top echelons of power and make laws banning foreigners from ownership in Thailand.

As far as I can tell, the Chinese consider the Thai to be a subsidiary Chinese ethnic minority group (which in many ways they are).

Thailand is about the size of a good-sized province of China.

I was waiting for you to chime in here after reading your other topic on comparing living in CHN and TH. I found it quite informative and this topic, too. I recently read about the origin of Taiwan and the Wiki page stated that many mainland Chinese who fled to Taiwan were Hakka. There was also mention of Hakka Chinese migrating south in to present day Thailand.

The original people in Thailand were called Tai. Tai wan. Interesting. There must be quite some genealogical links between the two countries.

Yes! There sure is and plenty of it!

Take a look at this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_peoples

"The Tai "Chinese 泰" ethnicity refers collectively to the ethnic groups of southern China and Southeast Asia, stretching from Hainan to eastern India and from southern Sichuan to Laos, Thailand, and parts of Vietnam, which speak languages in the Tai family and share similar traditions and festivals, including Songkran.^[1] Despite never having a unified nation-state of their own, the peoples also have historically shared a vague idea of a "Siam" nation, corrupted to Shan or Assam in some places, and most self-identify as "Tai".

The Tai have historically resided in China, India and continental Southeast Asia since the early Tai expansion period. Their primary geographic distribution in those countries is roughly in the shape of an arc extending from northeastern India through southern China and down to Southeast Asia. Recent Tai migrations have brought considerable numbers of Tai peoples to Sri Lanka, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, Europe, the United Arab Emirates, Argentina and North America as well. Greatest ethnic diversity within the Tai occurs in China, which is believed to be their prehistoric homeland."

So CAN we distinguish a difference between Tai people and Chinese? That's the million dollar question. And if so, how? This gets back to my original question and how it 'tais' in with the number of 'Thai' prime ministers who are of Chinese descent.

[lungbing]

One useful thing Field Marshal Pibulsongkarm did was to simplify Thai spelling, cutting out odd letters that were not pronounced. Unfortunately when he fell from power they reverted back to traditional spelling.

A very good book on the Chinese diaspora is "Lords of the Rim" by Sterling Seagrave.

And three odd comments by myself,

1. If all the Chinese-Thai consider themselves to be fully Thai why do many shops have the name of the shop in Chinese characters.

2. At late as the reign of Rama 4 Thailand paid tribute to the Chinese emperor. On less evidence than this Tibet was invaded!

3. I once read (and no, I can't remember where) that a cabinet meeting chaired by Thaksin as PM could have been held in Chinese and been understood by all present. And not only Chinese, but the obscure dialect from the few villages from whence his family originated.

[Heng]

1. If all the Chinese-Thai consider themselves to be fully Thai why do many shops have the name of the shop in Chinese characters.

Probably along the same lines why shops in the United States who use English characters don't necessarily consider themselves British?

Seriously though, Chinese characters as a practical matter indicates that not only are you willing to do business with 65 million Thai speaking folks... but also the billion folks who can read/write Chinese characters (you don't even need to speak the same dialect to do business, you can just write what you are looking for/want to buy), if they happen to stroll by your shop of course.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Heng

[LaoPo]

If you don't see the point of the thread go elsewhere and stop obsessing over it here. Leave the thread to those who find it interesting rather than ruining it with your complaining.

I assume you addressed the above to my person, CDNVIC ?

if so:

Well, I still don't know what agenda the OP has since he ended his original article with the following sentences:

"Why is any of this important? Because it has everything to do with the constant instablity of the country. Who's running this show? As far as I can infer, we have to go back to 1980-1988 when Thailand had a true ethnic Thai as a PM and even after he stepped down (from instablity) he was asked to stay put. Now, he's the head of the Privy Council.

Things are starting to make a whole lot of sense here. I can see the pattern. Anyone else see it too?

He, nor anybody else gave an answer, as far as I know, to the (maybe) rhetorical questions but the title of the topic is referring to PM's with Chinese roots or not and ALSO to the "constant instability of the country. Who's running this show ?" related to PM's with Chinese roots.

I'm not obsessed CDNVIC; I just feared an anti Chinese sentiment in his original OP but I might be wrong. I even supplied him with a link to all Thai PM's, starting with the first one in 1933 I believe.

Personally, I am very interested in Thai- as well as Thai/Chinese and Chinese history since I'm coming for more than 30 years to both countries and THUS I'm -more than- interested in this topic and I'm not, like you said, ruining the topic but was merely asking genuine questions.

I might have been a bit cynical though: Mea Culpa !

I still would like to know about the OP's "I can see the pattern" and I assume most members here as well.

After all: he asked the questions, but maybe my English understanding (of his words) drifted away, reading his last sentences, as if he was blaming the "constant instability of the country" due to PM's with Chinese roots.

If I'm wrong, I sincerely apologize and in that case I must have interpreted the meaning of his topic completely wrong!

LaoPo

[EvilDrSomkid]

I cannot answer for the OP, but what I think it is, is that Thai nationals with recent Chinese roots (say 3rd to 5th gen) seem to want to run the show in Thailand themselves and don't want any natives to ruin their game. I am sure you have read The Art of War.

Its a matter of the elite vs. the rest (read: poor). In some ways, Thailand still has feudal remnants in its culture, which take a long time to die off.

It is not in their interest to let non-Chinese become more educated and/or wealthy, because that will create more competition. Its just business. Going out on a limb here, but the Chinese consider themselves superior to other Asians. Then again, the Japanese and Koreans think the same.

However, this is the case with the elite in almost any country with strong conservative backgrounds. The Chinese are just very good at this game. They have played it for 4000 years or more. They look out for their own.

So, the locals are resentful of successful powerful people, and the Chinese are easily targeted because they have identifying ethnic traits.

Its kind of like the conspiracy theories about who really runs the US. Some say the Jews and some say the descendants of the Mayflower people.

[IanForbes]

I think the OP's post is interesting and informative. It highlights in yet another way how the Chinese have such influence within this country from the late 1800s onwards. Some go as far as to say Thailand was unofficially colonised. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it does seem to look as though a "dominant" race of immigrants came, multiplied, stayed and went to the top in financial, social and political terms. The evidence of this is all around. Nothing racist, just observations but the institutions where the Chinese gene is curiously less apparent are the police and military, but even then in the top echelons it may be a different story.

I agree. It's well-known that Chinese dominate business and the economy. In fact, I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a kind of unspoken agreement that the Chinese remained in business and ethnic Thais ran the government and civil service and that this has changed in the last couple of decades.

I think what the OP raises is interesting. Has there been a shift in the last couple of decades? I am struggling to remember what I read but i'm sure it was something along the lines of as Thailand's economy grew in the 70s and 80s that the business leaders (invariably Chinese) became more interested in politics.

As for a large proportion of Thais having Chinese in them that's undoubtedly true; however, there are a segment of the population, the Thai Chinese, whose ancestry is predominately chinese. Many Thai Chinese don't want their children to marry Thais let alone foreigners.

I think there are some very relevant points here. Big money interests always rise to positions of power and have a direct bearing in how a country is run. It happens in North America where a handful of families have a direct bearing on everything. The Kennedy family was a typical example. From what I've been able to determine in Canada it is also true. I see no reason why it would be any different in Thailand. Why do all the Thai movie stars

have pale skin? There is still the old caste system in place and most of it is related to money.

[Bukseeda]

Assuming there has been no objections (based on ethnicity alone) to persons of Chinese ethnicity taking the PMship, then is it fair to say that the Chinese have integrated well into Thailand? Contrast this to Malaysia and Indonesia...it does say something positive about Thailand, doesn't it?

I agree that there does seem better integration. However, there are some companies that tend to discriminate on that basis when it comes to middle or senior positions. One large company in particular springs to mind.

My brother's ex went for an interview when she graduated and was asked whether she was Thai-Chinese. When she answered "yes", the reply was "good, we prefer Thai-Chinese for this position".

That's not to say that this applies to all, but even my agent in Bangkok told me once that he only wants his daughter to marry a Thai-Chinese.

[Bukseeda]

I think the OP's post is interesting and informative. It highlights in yet another way how the Chinese have such influence within this country from the late 1800s onwards. Some go as far as to say Thailand was unofficially colonised. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it does seem to look as though a "dominant" race of immigrants came, multiplied, stayed and went to the top in financial, social and political terms. The evidence of this is all around. Nothing racist, just observations but the institutions where the Chinese gene is curiously less apparent are the police and military, but even then in the top echelons it may be a different story.

I agree. It's well-known that Chinese dominate business and the economy. In fact, I'm sure I read somewhere that there was a kind of unspoken agreement that the Chinese remained in business and ethnic Thais ran the government and civil service and that this has changed in the last couple of decades.

I think what the OP raises is interesting. Has there been a shift in the last couple of decades? I am struggling to remember what I read but i'm sure it was something along the lines of as Thailand's economy grew in the 70s and 80s that the business leaders (invariably Chinese) became more interested in politics.

As for a large proportion of Thais having Chinese in them that's undoubtedly true; however, there are a segment of the population, the Thai Chinese, whose ancestry is predominately chinese. Many Thai Chinese don't want their children to marry Thais let alone foreigners.

I think there are some very relevant points here. Big money interests always rise to positions of power and have a direct bearing in how a country is run. It happens in North America where a handful of families have a direct bearing on everything. The Kennedy family was a typical example. From what I've been able to determine in Canada it is also true. I see no reason why it would be any different in Thailand. Why do all the Thai movie stars

have pale skin? There is still the old caste system in place and most of it is related to money.

This is going back to 1999 but I remember wrting a complaint to channel 3 (naive back then I know) regarding a variety show I was watching. In one part, the presenter was holding up pictures of famous thai actors/models and asking the audience if the person concerned was beautiful or handsome. Once the audience agreed, they held up the same pictures but this time the famous people's complexions had been "blackened". They asked the same questions but this time were greeted with howls of laughter!

[samran]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

For most, if not all Thai's, it is little more that a minor side issue of interest of someones backgrounds. Most Thai's with Chinese heritiage are proud to celebrate it, and those who aren't of Chinese decent are typically happy to celebrate along with them, especially if it involves food....

While we can bang on all day about PM's, it is of note we've had supreme court judges of Indian descent, I recall a minister the Thaksin govt grew up speaking Khmer, and was dispatched to help in that relationship.

Also worthy of note is that Thai law isn't discriminatory, based on ethnicity. It could have gone the way of Malaysia, where the ethnic Malays many advantages under law, or in Indonesia where Chinese have always been viewed with a certain amount of suspicion by the political classes.

[ferd54]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

I certainly know my former wife, who is 100 percent Thai, was not a big fan. She would in private use the term "jaek" to refer to Chinese.

Edited September 2, 2009 by ferd54

[bonobo]

Most of my Thai friends are of Chinese descent. These were people who were able to go to the US for school.  However, except for some Chinese characters on one factory entrance, none of them celebrate any Chinese cultural events, none speak Chinese, and all consider themselves exclusively Thai.

My first wife was third generation Chinese-American.  Her grandmother loved me as I was the only person amongst her grandkids and their spouses who spoke Chinese.  None of her own blood had the slightest desire to learn the language (my wife was fluent in French).  From my meager experience, second or third generation Chinese-Thais are pretty much the same.  They are Thai, period.

[EvilDrSomkid]

May I recommend that most opinions has been voiced on this subject and we can close the thread?

[madjbs]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

Haha, that is exactly it. Most Thais can not even be categorized into one or the other these days anyhow. Farangs love everything to be black or white whereas the Thai people I know only use the issue to describe a persons look.

[harrry]

May I recommend that most opinions has been voiced on this subject and we can close the thread?

Why? If you do not want to read any more and your mind is closed to new ideas you do not have to read the thread..

[cdnvic]

May I recommend that most opinions has been voiced on this subject and we can close the thread?

Denied. It's a very interesting and informative thread. It would be bad form to close that down while we let many less cerebral discussions live on.

[jayboy]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

For most, if not all Thai's, it is little more that a minor side issue of interest of someones backgrounds. Most Thai's with Chinese heritiage are proud to celebrate it, and those who aren't of Chinese decent are typically happy to celebrate along with them, especially if it involves food....

Don't disagree with your general position and the peaceful co-existence and intermarriage is a tribute to both Thai and Chinese pragmatism.

However it's worth pointing out that the PAD rallies in Bangkok, led and mostly comprising Thais of Chinese extraction, had a very clear recognition of ethnic background with many racist slurs against people from the North East and elsewhere.Don't forget that the Sino-Thais have dominated politics and business for decades, and many have very ambivalent feelings about the increasing political clout of the Thai Ter.

[thaihome]

...However it's worth pointing out that the PAD rallies in Bangkok, led and mostly comprising Thais of Chinese extraction, had a very clear recognition of ethnic background with many racist slurs against people from the North East and elsewhere.Don't forget that the Sino-Thais have dominated politics and business for decades, and many have very ambivalent feelings about the increasing political clout of the Thai Ter.

Oh, and the leaders of the TRT and it subsequent acronyms was not lead by Thai-Chinese, starting with the ole square head himself, to say nothing of most of the upcountry elite families that support him?

[EffectiveAnger]

However it's worth pointing out that the PAD rallies in Bangkok, led and mostly comprising Thais of Chinese extraction, had a very clear recognition of ethnic background with many racist slurs against people from the North East and elsewhere.Don't forget that the Sino-Thais have dominated politics and business for decades, and many have very ambivalent feelings about the increasing political clout of the Thai Ter.

Precisely! And don’t you find it rather peculiar (or mysterious rather) that the same people who took the greatest offence to those racist slurs have been the most supportive of another Sino-Thai leader (in exile) and used him as their rallying cry?

[EffectiveAnger]

It's a common but incorrect assumption that it was a universal mandate. The powers that were might have wanted it, but in practice (as is the case nowadays), intent and application of the law is rarely ever one and the same.

Heng, I thought it WAS mandated at one point - perhaps during one of the Field Marshall's time?

all born in Thailand must adopt Thai names?

just not sure whether it applied only to first name, but not last name......

havent done my research, but just from recollection..............

"Surnames

Thai Chinese can often be recognized by having a surname containing the original Chinese name or its translation. In former prime minister Banharn Silpa-Archa's name, Archa (horse) is the translation of the Chinese surname Ma (馬). Another example is Sondhi Limthongkul, where Lim is the Hainanese pronunciation of the Chinese surname Lin (林). Many Thai Chinese adopted long surnames^[28] to mimic the royal names formerly given to high officials by the kings. Ethnic Thais tend to have shorter surnames, though many have now changed them to longer ones. Thai Chinese generally adopted Thai surnames to avoid persecution by assimilating into society. When choosing a surname, they would often combine auspicious Thai words with their original Chinese surname."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Chinese

Mandate or not, the adoption of a 'Thai surname' seems to have taken place more as a tool to avoid persecution by the locals as opposed to avoiding the penalties (whatever they may have been) of law. And the so-called 'assimilating into society' seems to be a rather clever, if not mandatory adaptation, to the society, which was not always so welcoming to the Chinese migrants

Edited September 2, 2009 by EffectiveAnger

[Bukseeda]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

Haha, that is exactly it. Most Thais can not even be categorized into one or the other these days anyhow. Farangs love everything to be black or white whereas the Thai people I know only use the issue to describe a persons look.

Then with all respect, I would have to say neither of you have a real insight into Thai culture.

For those who have mixed with both Thai-Chinese and Thais there is without doubt a divide. This doesn't necessariy apply to all but there is a significant proportion of Thai-Chinese families who have issues with wedlock with non Thai-Chinese. This attitude also pervades some companies for which senior positions are only available to people of a certain background.

My fiancee's own family is Thai Chinese by the way but I have to say their attitude is the exceptioin rather than the rule.

I would also go on to say that this prejudice is more apparent in wealthy Thai-Chinese families (who make up most of the wealthiest families in Thailand) so it could be argued that there is a socio-economic background to this.

There is also one large, well-known language school in Bangkok which a few years ago decided that for senior positions (for Thai staff) it would try to promote from within. Their various requirements were a. Bachelor's degree b. x number of years working for the school. c. completion of the schools own english courses. and d. MUST COME FROM A GOOD FAMILY.

Although this does not mean Thai-Chinese, it is but another example of prejudice against those not from a particular background.

And before I'm accused of being a farang with an agenda, much of the reasson I hold these views is because my fiancee is active within civil society in Thailand trying to create a fairer society (i.e. with gender equality, equality in the workplace, etc.). The people with whom she shares these views are all Thai and come from a variety of backgrounds including Isaan, leading academics etc.

To deny that prejudice exists is to deny the people who suffer at the hands of it the opportunity ever to see things change for the better. Shame on those who are determined to see the world through their own rose-tinted glasses.

[MiG16]

Going off topic a little but what's the status of the Indians I see round my way? I've never given it much thought before. Small business owners. Spouses appear to be Indian too. Is it a case of way back their fathers or grandfathers obtaining Thai citizenship or are they some sort of "under the radar" group like the Burmese factory workers in Khon Kaen.

Hi MCA.

Thai Indians use the same playbook the Thai Chinese do, generally successful, only on a smaller scale. There are plenty of old school 100+ year old Thai Indian families. Sure, just like the Chinese plenty of the more recent immigrants are 'under the radar,' but like the Chinese community these outsiders often are aided by those already established here.

Ive often heard that half of Sukhumvit land in central Bangkok is owned by these old school more establised INdians (many of the 4/5 star hotels on Sukhumvit certainly are - to my knowledge the Sheraton, Rembrandt, what was previously Grand Pacific (now renamed to one of the big chain I think?), and also many of the newer ones that open on Sukhumvit in last 3 years. I lost track of the names!)

[EvilDrSomkid]

May I recommend that most opinions has been voiced on this subject and we can close the thread?

Denied. It's a very interesting and informative thread. It would be bad form to close that down while we let many less cerebral discussions live on.

Ok, fair enough. It was merely a suggestion. So let me barge on and steal someone words from the BP forum relating to land ownership by Thai-western couples. I apologize to the writer for quoting him, if he feels his words are out of context.

"

Ian on Sun May 31, 2009 2:21 pm There is a very good logic but it is not Thai logic, it is Chinese logic. Two generations back a flood of Chinese came to Thailand and found a land peopled by simple people, lacking in business acumen. As a result they soon rose to the top, they became the big business tycoons, land owners, politicians etc. Thaksin is a classic example of this. The standard policy, keep the poor in their places, pay low wages and make hugh profits, keep them ignorant.

Then Farangs start to arrive, with business acumen to match the Chinese, educated and not fooled by lies and propaganda. Even worse we set a bad example by paying proper wages to our workers. We talk about education freedom of speech, all the things the Chinese Elite have created here we seem to be trying to undo.

Naturally these Chinese "Thais" will defend their turf, try to keep the western Farangs out, except of course for the stupid tourists, the walking ATM machine. As these Chinese control the government, the Civil Service, then what more logical than to make tighter and tighter restrictions on resident Farangs. Make life intolerable, drive them away.

It's not the Thais that don't want us, it's their controllers the Chinese Thais."

I totally agree with his opinion.

[samran]

My impression is that the only people who really care about peoples Chinese backgrounds are the Farangs here on the TV website.

Haha, that is exactly it. Most Thais can not even be categorized into one or the other these days anyhow. Farangs love everything to be black or white whereas the Thai people I know only use the issue to describe a persons look.

Then with all respect, I would have to say neither of you have a real insight into Thai culture.

For those who have mixed with both Thai-Chinese and Thais there is without doubt a divide. This doesn't necessariy apply to all but there is a significant proportion of Thai-Chinese families who have issues with wedlock with non Thai-Chinese. This attitude also pervades some companies for which senior positions are only available to people of a certain background.

My fiancee's own family is Thai Chinese by the way but I have to say their attitude is the exceptioin rather than the rule.

I would also go on to say that this prejudice is more apparent in wealthy Thai-Chinese families (who make up most of the wealthiest families in Thailand) so it could be argued that there is a socio-economic background to this.

There is also one large, well-known language school in Bangkok which a few years ago decided that for senior positions (for Thai staff) it would try to promote from within. Their various requirements were a. Bachelor's degree b. x number of years working for the school. c. completion of the schools own english courses. and d. MUST COME FROM A GOOD FAMILY.

Although this does not mean Thai-Chinese, it is but another example of prejudice against those not from a particular background.

And before I'm accused of being a farang with an agenda, much of the reasson I hold these views is because my fiancee is active within civil society in Thailand trying to create a fairer society (i.e. with gender equality, equality in the workplace, etc.). The people with whom she shares these views are all Thai and come from a variety of backgrounds including Isaan, leading academics etc.

To deny that prejudice exists is to deny the people who suffer at the hands of it the opportunity ever to see things change for the better. Shame on those who are determined to see the world through their own rose-tinted glasses.

I think that has pretty much passed us by.

My mum was born here, daugher of a Thai/Burmese aristocratic mother who was unceremoniously booted out of the family when she married my very poor Shanghai born grandfather. My mother then married a farang – my father, back in the 1970’s. My grandmother never reconciled with her family.

But things have changed.

My cousin in law is a Thai Chinese nuvo-riche child of an autoparts based near Yommarat who married the a girl with the title of ‘M.L’ before her name. You don't get more 'Thai' than that (if you want to couch it in those terms). Her grandmother, if she was alive at the time of marriage, would have refused permission for the union. But she was dead and that was the last of the opposition that would have existed in her family. Marriage went ahead, and their children now go to the palace primary school.

Another cousin in-law from the same Thai Chinese family married a half Thai/Austrian guy who’s father who was quite big in the construction industry here, very close to Ital Thai. Her husband is almost as dark as an issan labourer but again, no hassels there in preventing the marriage.

Sure, the parents of the family are conservative (‘oh, will our grandchild be too dark, or oh, we only have girls with our sons), but it is funny how these comments mean very little when it comes down to it.

To be honest I think money and economics have more to do with it, rather than race. That’s not to say discrimination doesn’t happen, but money trumps bloodlines.

Edited September 2, 2009 by samran

[Heng]

Well that should be pretty easy then. Just use one's equal or superior business acumen to get your fair share of turf.

Oh, and make sure that that's really just her brother (or sister).

[jayboy]

...However it's worth pointing out that the PAD rallies in Bangkok, led and mostly comprising Thais of Chinese extraction, had a very clear recognition of ethnic background with many racist slurs against people from the North East and elsewhere.Don't forget that the Sino-Thais have dominated politics and business for decades, and many have very ambivalent feelings about the increasing political clout of the Thai Ter.

Oh, and the leaders of the TRT and it subsequent acronyms was not lead by Thai-Chinese, starting with the ole square head himself, to say nothing of most of the upcountry elite families that support him?

Yes but look at the core supporters.

[mca]

Ive often heard that half of Sukhumvit land in central Bangkok is owned by these old school more establised INdians (many of the 4/5 star hotels on Sukhumvit certainly are - to my knowledge the Sheraton, Rembrandt, what was previously Grand Pacific (now renamed to one of the big chain I think?), and also many of the newer ones that open on Sukhumvit in last 3 years. I lost track of the names!)

Yeah a number of hotels in the ACCOR chain are Thai/Indian owned.

[LaoPo]

May I recommend that most opinions has been voiced on this subject and we can close the thread?

Denied. It's a very interesting and informative thread. It would be bad form to close that down while we let many less cerebral discussions live on.

Ok, fair enough. It was merely a suggestion. So let me barge on and steal someone words from the BP forum relating to land ownership by Thai-western couples. I apologize to the writer for quoting him, if he feels his words are out of context.

"

Ian on Sun May 31, 2009 2:21 pm There is a very good logic but it is not Thai logic, it is Chinese logic. Two generations back a flood of Chinese came to Thailand and found a land peopled by simple people, lacking in business acumen. As a result they soon rose to the top, they became the big business tycoons, land owners, politicians etc. Thaksin is a classic example of this. The standard policy, keep the poor in their places, pay low wages and make hugh profits, keep them ignorant.

Then Farangs start to arrive, with business acumen to match the Chinese, educated and not fooled by lies and propaganda. Even worse we set a bad example by paying proper wages to our workers. We talk about education freedom of speech, all the things the Chinese Elite have created here we seem to be trying to undo.

Naturally these Chinese "Thais" will defend their turf, try to keep the western Farangs out, except of course for the stupid tourists, the walking ATM machine. As these Chinese control the government, the Civil Service, then what more logical than to make tighter and tighter restrictions on resident Farangs. Make life intolerable, drive them away.

It's not the Thais that don't want us, it's their controllers the Chinese Thais."

I totally agree with his opinion.

Slowly but surely the real "face" of this thread is floating to the surface

But, the letter from this Ian in a forum on the BKK Post, is strongly biased anti-Chinese sentiment.

A sentence like this is biased: "Two generations back a flood of Chinese came to Thailand and found a land peopled by simple people, lacking in business acumen." because how would he know that ALL people in Thailand (other than the Chinese) were simple people, lacking business skills ? That's a well hidden insult towards Thai people in general...

What is "a flood of Chinese"; 1.000's, 10.000's, 100.000's ? apart from the fact that "two generations back...." is nonsense since migration in this Asian area is happening since thousands of years and not since 2 generations.

It appears to me that there still is an anti-Chinese sentiment in Thailand, whether amongst Thai and/or Farang, Japanese, Indians or from other Asian nations and whether that sentiment is against Thai-Chinese politicians and/or business people and fa ilies who "made" it.

But that's old news since smart, hard working people who became rich, Chinese or non-Chinese, all over the world, have always been envied by the poor(er).

America is one of the few nations on earth that is proud of it's people who "made" it. I come from a small-minded country with many parts one better not drive around in an expensive car, more expensive than a Toyota

Luckily, that sentiment is changing a bit although it surfaced again now since there's strong movement that people working in (semi)-governmental jobs may not earn more than the PM....(€ 180K/year).

Speaking about socialism

LaoPo