No One Will Forgive If Pattaya Violence Happens Again: Chuan

[jayboy]

nice try, no sale.

keep preaching.

You remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who kept on coming back for more punishment notwithstanding King Arthur had hacked both his arms and one of his legs off!

[Rumfoord]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

But Abhisit did.

But Abhisit did ...

did what? your sentence is uncompleted.

But Abhisit did appoint Kasit "is was all fun at the airport" Piromya as Foreign Minister in his cabinet.

[ThNiner]

But Abhisit did appoint Kasit "is was all fun at the airport" Piromya as Foreign Minister in his cabinet.

Yeah, comparable to the fugitive who did appoint Samak "only a couple of students died on October 16, 1976" Suntoravej + Snoh "I stole land from the temple so I could build a golf course" Tientong + Chalerm "Ai Pued, not my son, killed the cop at the pub ( the cop stepped on my son's foot)" Yoobumroong as his asset watchdogs...I guess??

[animatic]

nice try, no sale.

keep preaching.

You remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who kept on coming back for more punishment notwithstanding King Arthur had hacked both his arms and one of his legs off!

And you remind me of the Russian codpiece Black Adder wore in front of the clergy.

Or the Monty Python argument room skit. And just as logical.

You can't make your lies about me fly, no matter how you might dress them up.

Edited September 4, 2009 by animatic

[Rumfoord]

But Abhisit did appoint Kasit "is was all fun at the airport" Piromya as Foreign Minister in his cabinet.

Yeah, comparable to the fugitive who did appoint Samak "only a couple of students died on October 16, 1976" Suntoravej + Snoh "I stole land from the temple so I could build a golf course" Tientong + Chalerm "Ai Pued, not my son, killed the cop at the pub ( the cop stepped on my son's foot)" Yoobumroong as his asset watchdogs...I guess??

mhm.

you should sort your facts. Samak for example spoke only of 'one unlucky guy that died in october 76'. that got Samak totally wrong, we know it. but it's also a difficult date in thai history to talk about this in Thailand in public. guess what was the motivation for Samak trying to downplay the number of death?

and what we know about Samaks role in the events of october 1976 we know thanks the work of the political scientist Giles Ji Ungpakorn.

massacre of demonstrators, students in 1973 and 1976. later in 1999, the then PM Chuan Leekpai nominated the former military dictator Thanom Kittikachorn for an honorary royal guard title.

The Nation (Thailand) 04-01-1999

MIRED in probably the biggest crisis of his political career, Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai faces parliamentary scrutiny today over the Thanom controversy, with the whole nation watching to see if he will utter a much demanded apology.

Eloquence has helped him escape trouble time and again in the past, but this time the issue will not go away. It could even lead to his downfall unless Chuan sincerely apologises for endorsing the nomination of former dictator Thanom Kittikachorn for an honorary royal guard title.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-21138493.html

land scandal? Chuan Leekpai, Suthep Thaugsuban and The Democrats in 1994/95:

the Democrat-led government led by then prime minister Chuan Leekpai was forced to dissolve the House after it came under heavy attacks by the Opposition over abuses of the land reform programme. Then agriculture minister Suthep Thuagsuban was accused of granting sor por kor 4-01 land certificates to rich landlords in Phuket, including Tossaporn Vanich, husband of Suthep’s assistant secretary, Mrs Anchalee Vanich. The land reform programme has been suspended since then. Also, the Supreme Court eventually revoked Tossaporn’s sor por kor 4-01 certificates coverning 98 rai of land in Phuket on the ground that the documents were not properly issued because Tossaporn is not an agriculturalist as stipulated in the law.

The sor por kor 4-01 land reform scheme was intended to solve the problem of widespread illegal occupation of state land in forest reserves or national parks by providing land certificates to the land grabbers who are actually landless poor. The scheme was however badly abused as rich people also grabbed the state land, especially prime plots with commercial prospect, and tried to claim the land rights.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...and-reform-plan

[animatic]

"No One Will Forgive If Pattaya Violence Happens Again" said Chuan.

Well he is mostly right, though there is a group that includes Kuhn Upchuckingcorn

that is just ITCHING for violence much worse than Pattaya or Din Daeng.

I have a link, but doubt it would get undeleted, so I will not post it.

It is a scary diatribe / rant / call to arms.

Kuhn G. has called for 'over throwing the complete Thailand governmental system

bottom... to Top'.... and he obviously doesn't expect to return here unless this happens.

So yes, MOST Thai's WILL NOT forgive if violence happens the 5th or the 19th.

And the forces of order don't move to quell it assiduously.

But there are sadly too many, not a lot, but TOO MANY, who want a conflagration,

so to rebuild from the ashes into a Workers Paradise... God help us all if that happens.

Edited September 4, 2009 by animatic

[Rumfoord]

"No One Will Forgive If Pattaya Violence Happens Again" said Chuan.

..Well he is mostly right, though there is a group that includes Kuhn Upchuckingcorn

that is just ITCHING for violence much worse than Pattaya or Din Daeng.

I have a link, but doubt it would get undeleted, so I will not post it.

It is a scary diatribe / rant / call to arms.

...

yep, i guess somekind like this sounded the '76 Samak in his radio show back these days. and many years later Samak showed a lame memory about what happen 1976.

how much credits we could give to the memory abilities of Chuan Leekpai considering the events of 1973/76 and Thanom Kittikachorn.

what actually happend in Pattaya in april? and how lawful, legal and constitutional has been a recent event in thai history on September 19?

last year in september the PAD had a big mouth about the Peoples Revolution but i mean another event few years earlier, that surprisingly also got called Revolution.

[geriatrickid]

As soon as the troops fire on the crowd Abhisit's toast.

Why? If reds look like they are going for Songkran replay many will cheer the army to shoot more of them, if Thai history is any indication.

The military will have its excuse to seize power again

Well, the military are the ones who will be firing those shots, so would be the coup against themselves?

It just doesn't make sense. The coup is impossible at this time for a lot of reasons, from 2006 experience of running the country to non-existence of any particular faction powerful enough to pull it off and with protests from both red and yellow camps in between.

I'll put my comments in context with the statement that I don't think the army boys are too happy with the PM. I have the impression that he's not jumping as high as they want when they say jump. I still cling to the belief that Abhisit is trying to walk the tightrope of doing something positive, but he's under attack 24/7 from both sides of the political divide. Violence plays into the hands of the military by allowing them to say that the Redshirts are insurrectionists and must be squashed. It gives the military an excuse to take power on the premise of "saving the nation". I expect some of the trouble to therefore come from people passing themselves off as Redshirts, but are really there to stir up sh*t.

For some Redshirt leaders, there may be the hope that a soi sticky with blood and brains will anger the people and further solidify support of a cause that's turning in circles. Nothing promotes anger like a good martyr, preferably one that's killed in public so that the digital images can be twittered/emailed/uploaded

Large crowds of angry youths, often intoxicated and carrying weapons facing off against scared armed soldiers/police with limited crowd control training usually results in death and injury.

If the Redshirts were serious about peaceful protest they would ask the participants to promise to come unarmed and self police to identify and remove armed idiots. If the authorities were serious about avoiding violence they would let the Redshirts do that without interfering and would make sure that the 1st line of public security was not carrying firearms.

[jayboy]

nice try, no sale.

keep preaching.

You remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who kept on coming back for more punishment notwithstanding King Arthur had hacked both his arms and one of his legs off!

And you remind me of the Russian codpiece Black Adder wore in front of the clergy.

Or the Monty Python argument room skit. And just as logical.

You can't make your lies about me fly, no matter how you might dress them up.

And another of your legs is metaphorically hacked off.Accept that you have been demolished...and move on.Incidentally none of this is about you or me, however keen you are to personalise it.

[ThNiner]

mhm.

you should sort your facts. Samak for example spoke only of 'one unlucky guy that died in october 76'. that got Samak totally wrong, we know it. but it's also a difficult date in thai history to talk about this in Thailand in public. guess what was the motivation for Samak trying to downplay the number of death?

and what we know about Samaks role in the events of october 1976 we know thanks the work of the political scientist Giles Ji Ungpakorn.

massacre of demonstrators, students in 1973 and 1976. later in 1999, the then PM Chuan Leekpai nominated the former military dictator Thanom Kittikachorn for an honorary royal guard title.

The Nation (Thailand) 04-01-1999

MIRED in probably the biggest crisis of his political career, Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai faces parliamentary scrutiny today over the Thanom controversy, with the whole nation watching to see if he will utter a much demanded apology.

Eloquence has helped him escape trouble time and again in the past, but this time the issue will not go away. It could even lead to his downfall unless Chuan sincerely apologises for endorsing the nomination of former dictator Thanom Kittikachorn for an honorary royal guard title.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-21138493.html

land scandal? Chuan Leekpai, Suthep Thaugsuban and The Democrats in 1994/95:

the Democrat-led government led by then prime minister Chuan Leekpai was forced to dissolve the House after it came under heavy attacks by the Opposition over abuses of the land reform programme. Then agriculture minister Suthep Thuagsuban was accused of granting sor por kor 4-01 land certificates to rich landlords in Phuket, including Tossaporn Vanich, husband of Suthep's assistant secretary, Mrs Anchalee Vanich. The land reform programme has been suspended since then. Also, the Supreme Court eventually revoked Tossaporn's sor por kor 4-01 certificates coverning 98 rai of land in Phuket on the ground that the documents were not properly issued because Tossaporn is not an agriculturalist as stipulated in the law.

The sor por kor 4-01 land reform scheme was intended to solve the problem of widespread illegal occupation of state land in forest reserves or national parks by providing land certificates to the land grabbers who are actually landless poor. The scheme was however badly abused as rich people also grabbed the state land, especially prime plots with commercial prospect, and tried to claim the land rights.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...and-reform-plan

Oh I see. Your arguement all boils down to, "yes I'm a criminal, but so are you! So I'm good!" Wow, how deep! (Guess you couldn't find any Dem MP's whose sons were thuggish killers (to defend Chalerm)?)

And thanks for correcting me on Samak's quote. I thought he was decent enough to admit of more than one "unlucky" killing. Guess I was wrong.

[dre1247]

Correct assessment.

Absolute piss take.

Lets not bother wasting time on the 'Yellows' decision to hold the country to ransom or the strong hand tacticts they employ, or the laughable reaction from the security forces and the family which they control.

I would love to debate this topic. However, I am not allowed to do so?

In a counrty where freedom of speach is against the law, it is impossible to even attempt addressing the issues at hand.

"However, I am not allowed to do so?" Not really, you can but the subject becomes too boring, all has been said already. European countries, the champions of free speech, try discussing the Jews or the Holocaust, you end up in jail, by law..... This place is still relatively free, too free for its own good. The mistake many make is to compare Thailand with the west, it is not the same, if we are all educated to a same level OK. In the birthplace of democracy, Greece, only the educated were allowed to vote, for good reasons I guess. Apologies if I hurt someone's holy cow..

[dre1247]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

When you say "it's all so unfair and so totally hypocritical"

Are you referring to the removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

Are you refering to how the goverment voted in by the people was dissolved by the courts, not once but twice?

I do not care what views people have on a foreign country and its election process or lack of.

But, it makes me smile when same people object to certain groups, do not wish them to have a voice or representation.

No matter what way they dress it up, they are against democracy.

If there was an election here in Thailand say, tomorrow who would win. Obviously the troublemakers you refer to, yes, possible?

You may not like those people, but hey, are you in favour of dictatorship or democracy.

Does the will of the people not count??

It's not about dress, the color of it, or otherwise, nor about "freedom of expression"!

It's about agenda, the agenda of the red shirt's core turned out to be pro-Thaksin and

their "pro-Democracy" slogans aren't worth the paper and banners they're printed on!

They have way too many times shown their real intentions - many people distrust them

Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon, especially after Songkran day in Bangkok!

Never to mention that the PAD's gatherings and demonstrations widely remained peaceful.

There might be some rural grass root people easily convinced through their usual betrayal,

empty promises and the like - but the majority is keeping distance and till now quiet.

Stop trying to convince people with lies - you hurt yourself and the movement's goals

you and all it's supporters claim to stand for!

The "will of the people", the elections have been widely rigged, that's why the results have been

questioned again and again - nothing to do with "democracy" Thaksin's TRT absolut majority was

going to be a dictatorship - stop talking the ever ongoing repetitive nonsense!

And "the man" wasn't "good", he was and still is a thread to safety, welfare and freedom of the people here!

He is proving it day by day, "phone-in" by "phone-in" while in self imposed exile - fleeing justice!

Sorry he couldn't have the same panel of judges who let him off the hook years ago in his assets case-

where he admitted to have made "honest mistakes" in signing his shares to his driver, gardener, housekeeper,

secretary and his kids.... exceptionally "honest" man - not to mention the other pending lawsuits against him

do you really wish someone like this as prime Minister as the "show case" and representative of Thailand - after all?

Not to mention Bak Tai, Krue Sea the extra judicial killings of thousands of people.... people do have right's -

all of them not just a few who believe they can take the law into their hands...!

It has come way too obvious that there are people with bad intentions and hidden agendas -

May Thailand and it's people remain protected from this mob through legal means and move on with

more important business!

Absolutely spot on. If demonstrating was not a paid for business, Sanam Luang would be filled with at most 200 upcountry hardcores. 500 Baht a day is good money to put on a Red shirt.

[animatic]

Merci, moo non plus!

[dre1247]

Those that get the majority votes in the LEGISLATURE form the cabinet and take office.

The MP's are elected for their full terms and can do as they choose dureing that time, including change alliances.

MP's decided PM Chalerm was a bad idea. and switched sides. The voters got the decisions of their PM.s

and have no legal reasons to gripe.[/b] THAT is Thai political history.

You say he doesn't know Thai political history, but your statement shows you don't understand that.

Thaksi was NOT elected Prime Minister of Thailand at the time of the coup,

he was lame duck, Interim or Acting PM with no legislature and only a dwindling cabinet.

A place holder in case of emergency, not leaving the country completely rudderless.

His TRT broke existing election laws from the top down, so egregiously there was no choice,

but to ban them based on clear thai laws, on the books well before that.

They lost from their own arrogance.

THAT is Thai political history.

Thaksin did this HIMSELF by disolving the legislature and trying to another election to white wash

or validate his Temasek sale, which enraged most every one for selling national assets ,

Thailands ONLY communications satellite to Singapore's control.

THAT is Thai political history.

Thaksin was not told to stay out of Thailand, and came back and was not arrested.

But later WAS convicted with HIS PPP PARTY in control of the government.

He was convicted with HIS cronies in power.

THAT is Thai political history.

If you must call others ill informed be well informed youself.

What I put down in print was copied from Wilkpedia.

Not my opinion, but freely available facts.

What is my opinion is that people should be voted in and out not deposed by coup de tat.

That brings anarchy................................which we seem to have.

Look at my previous posts on this subject. I bang the drum for one man one vote. Believe that the reda nad yellow shiorts have their own agenda and it will not benefit the Thais, certainly not ex-pats like me who live here.

Abandon the democracy you have mobs......................just said that

"What I put down in print was copied from Wilkpedia." Statement of a loser. Just read carefully what was written they are FACTS, democracy or not, Taxhim was manipulating "democracy". Out with the Megalomaniac whatever way, democracy would have been the victim if he was staying on. Better a step back and than go forward with a more even playing field.

[dre1247]

The posts about politics here appear to get the most interest and replies. You must be a very political lot.

Out of interest....are there circumstances where a foreigner may vote in Thailand??

Yes, 5 years after he (she) receives Thai nationality, but then he / she is Thai for the law, so I guess not.

[dre1247]

2,500 is the low ball figure touted BY the Thaksin government for their score in the War On Drugs.

This was NOT, as you say, total deaths in the period, which was far higher anyway,

but those killed during his anti-drug squad's specific work.

Thaksin publicly kept score...,

only later did it become obvious that the pressure from above to 'meet quota's'

made police squads look for anyone they didn't like as possible upward mobility in their job.

With 'success comes rewards in Thaksinland.

The boss wants bodies, in jail, or just dead with drugs found on them, no problem,

this guy's not nice, he talked back to my date, lets getting the aggravating ass out of here.

The number of stories of people killed with NO CONNECTIONS to drugs was way to high.

Between 8-15% or more depending on source estimate. 1% would be too high.

The rhetoric from on top and the demand for results by quota was a recipe for carnage.

And when the buck stops at the top and the demands start there too, Thaksin was responsible.

A drug war could have been effectively waged without as much unconscionable collateral damage.

Just for the record. "killed with NO CONNECTIONS to drugs was way to high.". A long term resident and good friend's 22 year old (mixed race) son never came home since that time. He hired a private investigator and they came as far as Bang Na police station. He was privately ordered to stop his investigation. How about that, what horror, if this happens to your child. I for one will give a big party if this megalomaniac passes to the next level.. Stop this crap about democracy, it does not belong anywhere in the equation here, never has, never will. Wake up, this is not the west, if you like it or agree with it or not, thats irrelevant.

Edited September 4, 2009 by dre1247

[dre1247]

nice try, no sale.

keep preaching.

You remind me of the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail who kept on coming back for more punishment notwithstanding King Arthur had hacked both his arms and one of his legs off!

And you remind me of the Russian codpiece Black Adder wore in front of the clergy.

Or the Monty Python argument room skit. And just as logical.

You can't make your lies about me fly, no matter how you might dress them up.

And another of your legs is metaphorically hacked off.Accept that you have been demolished...and move on.Incidentally none of this is about you or me, however keen you are to personalise it.

Oh get off it, get a life, you have nothing else to do, extremely boring this pissing contest....

[Rumfoord]

Oh I see. Your arguement all boils down to, "yes I'm a criminal, but so are you! So I'm good!" Wow, how deep! (Guess you couldn't find any Dem MP's whose sons were thuggish killers (to defend Chalerm)?)

And thanks for correcting me on Samak's quote. I thought he was decent enough to admit of more than one "unlucky" killing. Guess I was wrong.

no, it's about stick to facts and provide some facts and additional information.

hyberbole, exaggeration, unobjective comments are boring to read. that will not convince anybody. only other 'true believer' will think of it as valuable arguments.

if you don't stick to facts you are also not in the position to accuse others of lying.

and no, i am not in the mood to defend Chalerm or start a counter list of corruption cases of the democrats. but could you tell me anything about chalerm at all. a brief objective and unemotional summary of his political career or 'crimes'?

and for the fun of it. what you think about a core element and heavy weight of the Abhisit Government veteran politician Chai Chidchob and his offspring (not only newin)?

[topben]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

When you say "it's all so unfair and so totally hypocritical"

Are you referring to the removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

Are you refering to how the goverment voted in by the people was dissolved by the courts, not once but twice?

I do not care what views people have on a foreign country and its election process or lack of.

But, it makes me smile when same people object to certain groups, do not wish them to have a voice or representation.

No matter what way they dress it up, they are against democracy.

If there was an election here in Thailand say, tomorrow who would win. Obviously the troublemakers you refer to, yes, possible?

You may not like those people, but hey, are you in favour of dictatorship or democracy.

Does the will of the people not count??

"will of the people"? is that of the majority or of some hooligans from the reds,the yellows or whatever?

[Maestro]

Nonsensical posts about a toxin and the replies to them have been deleted. If you wish your posts to remain available for others to read, please do not quote such nonsensical post in your reply.

--

Maestro

[SHYTALK]

The solution to any violence is obvious to anybody who was in South Pattaya at the time.

Keep the blue shirts away, and don't send the army in the back door once the blue shirts have kicked off at the front door.

Pure antagonism , maybe abi set that up to?, any tapes anywhere?.

[Siripon]

It was nice to see in the poll over the weekend that a large majority of those polled want the government to soldier on (if you'll excuse the pun), public fatigue with the red shirts seems to be high.

As an aside, what happened to the zealous contributor, Si Racha John?

[SHYTALK]

It was nice to see in the poll over the weekend that a large majority of those polled want the government to soldier on (if you'll excuse the pun), public fatigue with the red shirts seems to be high.

As an aside, what happened to the zealous contributor, Si Racha John?

A better question would have been " would you care to vote for a government in an election".

So whats the hold up?

Regards SRJ I seen a post of his somewhere on a current thread.

It was after the military coup and the comment was " free, free , free at last" ??

Maybe the guys in the white shirts got him.

[Siripon]

It was nice to see in the poll over the weekend that a large majority of those polled want the government to soldier on (if you'll excuse the pun), public fatigue with the red shirts seems to be high.

As an aside, what happened to the zealous contributor, Si Racha John?

A better question would have been " would you care to vote for a government in an election".

So whats the hold up?

Regards SRJ I seen a post of his somewhere on a current thread.

It was after the military coup and the comment was " free, free , free at last" ??

Maybe the guys in the white shirts got him.

The hold up is another election is not due for 2 and a half years, constitutional reform is just beginning, Apisit wants to see improvement in the economy first,(naturally) and the red shirts haven't learnt yet that to have a democracy you have to have free speech without physical harassment of both opposition and fellow reds.