Graffiti Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I know this his somewhat controversial subject has been discussed elsewhere within this forum but is anybody aware, or had personal experience of Sin Sod being requested offshore, in particular United Kingdom. The reason why I ask is that my wife shocked me with a very recent un-supported statement that if our eldest daughter who will be going to study in UK 2010 becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner that leads to wedlock then the groom SHOULD be made aware of this part of Thai culture that is still practised to this very day .... What would be the immplications civil, and criminal in UK for such a request if things went wrong later. For the record, I do have personal experience of this when my wife and I married and I paid a UNDISCLOSED amount of Sin Sod in the form of gold purchased whilst working in the Middle East, so I am aware. Edited September 4, 2009 by Graffiti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartlett Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 certainly wouldnt hurt for him to be made aware of it ...good luck getting someone to pay a english father sin sod though . i think its not a likely scenario . we can just about accept that its part of a culture, when that family knows no other way but ...if the girl grew up in the uk and the father is english then there is no acceptable reason for asking for sin sod. 99.9 % of people in uk know nothing about sin sod and wouldnt accept it. As an english father of the bride youd be expected to pay for the wedding in the region of around £15-20,000( on ave these days)- is your wife aware of that very normal tradition of the country she lives in? just reread this post and it almost sounds like im having a pop ..im really not ...so im sorry if it comes over that way ..its not intended although it can be a little frustrating when only thai traditions have to be acknowledged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G54 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I could not possibly imagine a Brit paying to marry a woman in this way. For your average Brit to be expected to pay, he would laugh at the idea. Many would tell her or you ( no insult intended ) to p*ss off back home if the sin sot was insisted upon. I agree the man should be made aware of this idea but the mother should also be aware that we did away with such ideas many moons ago where the father paid a handsome sum to the man marrying his daughter. Indians, Pakistanis and others have their own ideas on marriage and who pays what to whom, but that is between their own cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I know this his somewhat controversial subject has been discussed elsewhere within this forum but is anybody aware, or had personal experience of Sin Sod being requested offshore, in particular United Kingdom.The reason why I ask is that my wife shocked me with a very recent un-supported statement that if our eldest daughter who will be going to study in UK 2010 becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner that leads to wedlock then the groom SHOULD be made aware of this part of Thai culture that is still practised to this very day .... What would be the immplications civil, and criminal in UK for such a request if things went wrong later. For the record, I do have personal experience of this when my wife and I married and I paid a UNDISCLOSED amount of Sin Sod in the form of gold purchased whilst working in the Middle East, so I am aware. Maybe you should discuss with your wife the British culture. i.e. the parents of the bride pays for the wedding. As far as Sin Sod is concerned in England, I would think that would be looked on as purchasing an item from a shop. In this case, the item would be your daughter, so basically, you would be selling your kid and I think you will find that that is illegal in the UK under both Civil and Criminal Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harcourt Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Get real. This is not a matter of British law, this is a matter to sort out between you and your wife regardless of British law. YOU do not have to request or accept anything from a propsective son in law just on your wife's say-so. Another aspect of it is that IF the English mindset would see it as "paying" for the wife: do YOU want your daughter to be treated as a chattel? Forget the legal aspect of it as it is a moot question. Anyway, sin sod is not compulsory or mandatory in Thailand. Sounds like your wife is money-grubbing. Sorry to say that, but it sounds like it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Sin Sod is clearly for show!! Any rate waste of time and I would tell your wife she can forget that custom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 There can be a token gesture made that satisfies the need for "tradition" yet no real amount of cash or gold is handed over. In western society it's not unheard of that the groom or his family give a gift to the bride's parents, but I think the idea of giving cash for a bride looks crass in the eyes of many westerners who equate it to prostitution and slavery. Don't forget, Brits have a culture too, not just Thais. You need to find a compromise that satisfies both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noise Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 .... this is a matter to sort out between you and your wife regardless of British law. I agree with this part of Harcourt's reply. Since she will be there for a long time and is the "right" age, a romantic involvement is very likely. Since it is a real possibility, the three of you should consider discussing it before your daughter leaves. If you all discuss your wife's personal preference now, you explain the British cultural differences and the how sin sod would appear to the British, and you talk about what would happen if your daughter chooses the "love of her life" over a Thai custom, future arguments and accusations and disappointments (of whatever nature) may be avoided. You can ignore all this today, but it will be harder (if not impossible) to deal with long distance once you get the email...... He asked me to marry him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) I know this his somewhat controversial subject has been discussed elsewhere within this forum but is anybody aware, or had personal experience of Sin Sod being requested offshore, in particular United Kingdom.The reason why I ask is that my wife shocked me with a very recent un-supported statement that if our eldest daughter who will be going to study in UK 2010 becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner that leads to wedlock then the groom SHOULD be made aware of this part of Thai culture that is still practised to this very day .... What would be the immplications civil, and criminal in UK for such a request if things went wrong later. For the record, I do have personal experience of this when my wife and I married and I paid a UNDISCLOSED amount of Sin Sod in the form of gold purchased whilst working in the Middle East, so I am aware. Was your sin sot returned to you and your wife after the wedding ceremony as is the practice in Thai culture? Or were you ripped off by your wife's family the same way your wife is planning to rip off your daughter's future husband? Edited September 5, 2009 by Livinginexile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassienie Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) I know this his somewhat controversial subject has been discussed elsewhere within this forum but is anybody aware, or had personal experience of Sin Sod being requested offshore, in particular United Kingdom.The reason why I ask is that my wife shocked me with a very recent un-supported statement that if our eldest daughter who will be going to study in UK 2010 becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner that leads to wedlock then the groom SHOULD be made aware of this part of Thai culture that is still practised to this very day .... What would be the immplications civil, and criminal in UK for such a request if things went wrong later. For the record, I do have personal experience of this when my wife and I married and I paid a UNDISCLOSED amount of Sin Sod in the form of gold purchased whilst working in the Middle East, so I am aware. It is old tradition in England that the bride’s parents usually pay for the wedding. But if you were to ask the respective groom for a sin-sod, than I have no doubts the implications arising from he and his family, would be to tell you to; sod-off. And as for your quote that you paid an undisclosed amount in gold to your wife as a sin-sod when you married, I’m still laughing over that one. Edited September 5, 2009 by sassienie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 You respected Thai culture (apparently) by paying sin sot, but your wife will not respect English culture (if there is one haha). Yes, in England the brides parents are supposed to pay for the wedding, inform her of that, see how she likes it. HOO HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetefldon Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Clearly some correspondents are not too well versed with British culture and traditions. Since quite a high percentage of British families may well have their roots in the Indian sub-continent for example. The concept of paying a dowry is practiced in the UK, OK not exactly the same as true Sin Sod but near enough. British law is not affected in any way unless of course some legally binding pre-nuptial agreement is reached. I am sure the OP's daughter might well have an opinion on traditions should the day arrive where she wishes to marry someone from the UK. After all she comes from a cross cultural family and may not see the Sin Sod tradition as that important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 @thetefldon Saying that a "high percentage may well have their roots in the Indian sub-continent" is not a fact, it is a may or may not. Please explain what you mean. I don't know of anyone who has paid dowry where I live. It is a given that I do not know everyone in the UK, but if a dowry is paid it is very uncommon. Anyway, I thought the opinion of people on here is "When in rome", is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David James Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think that you should explain to your wife two things. 1. In the UK sin sot would be viewed as outrageously offensive because it would be viewed as buying a wife, and 2. UK tradition requires the brides father to pay for the wedding. You therefore need to explain to your wife that if your daughter were to be married in the UK not only could she not receive a sin sot but that you family may incur considerable expense in paying for the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Clearly some correspondents are not too well versed with British culture and traditions. Since quite a high percentage of British families may well have their roots in the Indian sub-continent for example. The concept of paying a dowry is practiced in the UK, OK not exactly the same as true Sin Sod but near enough. British law is not affected in any way unless of course some legally binding pre-nuptial agreement is reached.I am sure the OP's daughter might well have an opinion on traditions should the day arrive where she wishes to marry someone from the UK. After all she comes from a cross cultural family and may not see the Sin Sod tradition as that important. Yes but the mother will see it as important! She will see it as another opportunity to rip off a Farang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 No sin sod in the UK. Put your foot down man, or, pass your trousers to the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givenall Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 You respected Thai culture (apparently) by paying sin sot, but your wife will not respect English culture (if there is one haha).Yes, in England the brides parents are supposed to pay for the wedding, inform her of that, see how she likes it. HOO HA! I have a Thai wife and she never asked for Sin Sot. anyhow I will not pay for since Thai wants the good part of Farang culture, by marring into farang but they also want to keep the good part of Thai tradition (all about $$$$). At the same time when they divorce, they also want the legal aspect of Farag law which will divide the asset cumulated during marriage. Sounds like they want the cake and eat it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barky Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The bottom line is, if she meets a caucasian Brit it is extremely unlikely he will pay anything in fact as said previously you and your wife will have to foot a great deal of the bill, IF they get married in the UK. If they marry in Thailand that may be a little different (ie: when in Rome). If the groom is not told in advance that in Thailand it may be expected to pay he may feel ripped-off. At the end of the day, it will be up to the groom to either pay or pass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Sounds like they want the cake and eat it too Exactly, it's "The Thai way or the Highway." with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbow212 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 As others have said in this thread "when in Rome..." Put your foot down hard and do not tolerate this attitude for one second, tell your wife she should respect the British values and ways of doing things. If she cannot accept that dont send her daughter there. Would she be willing to fork out for the wedding as is traditionally (but optional I must add) done in the uk?? I think she would retract her arrogant sid sod requests rather hastily at the thought of that.......a way of highlighting your point would be ask if an indian or uk person came to Thailand to study and got in a relationship with your daughter would she accept the demand to pay the grooms family or the wedding?? she is thinking of no-one but herself and that her culture and expectations are superior.... This attitude disgusts me - I am sick of having to show deep respect and put other cultural sensitivites before my own in other parts of the world while people think they can move to the UK and pick and choose the aspects of the UK that suit them while carrying on behaving like they are still in their own country. The UK is not a free for all. If you are not prepared to integrate, speak English, marry an english person and make english friends dont go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 If they love each other, why throwing a roadblock or adding another obstacle between them? And esp this is in the farang land now. You should spend time wisely… advising the couple how to make “the will be” married life works better. I think this should be the main role - as parents. Sometimes I just don’t understand some old fashion people nowadays…on this sinsot thing. Why don’t they just go.. wasting their times on some other good causes. Unless they have nothing else better to do. From another thai’s point of view here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Children are seen as a meal-ticket in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Ha. I can just imagine Dave from Essex handing over a wad of cash to marry his 'Julie'. Let's put it this way: If your daughter met a good bloke that treated her well and looked after her and your daughter wanted to marry that bloke, would you allow sin sod to get in the way of her happiness? I know what I would choose. Tell your wife to read up on some history books mate and she might just see that Britain has a culture of it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barky Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 If they love each other, why throwing a roadblock or adding another obstacle between them? And esp this is in the farang land now.You should spend time wisely… advising the couple how to make "the will be" married life works better. I think this should be the main role - as parents. Sometimes I just don't understand some old fashion people nowadays…on this sinsot thing. Why don't they just go.. wasting their times on some other good causes. Unless they have nothing else better to do. From another thai's point of view here Don't you think that the "surprise" of paying sin sod would probably come as obstacle to the groom? If he's OK with it then fine, but it's not western culture. And, if they got married in Britain I doubt very strongly that he would want to pay...but, he might, depending on how much he loved her, how much pressure she put on him, and how rich he is. Oh and for your records, there is NO "farangland" just as there is no Asialand. I agree with you that this type of thinking by Thais is old fashioned and they should get with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) It doesn't matter what the wife is demanding anyway. If the daughter is over 18 she can do what she wants and that includes getting married without permission or even informing her parents of the event. The UK has things like equal rights, freedom of choice and human rights which Thailand and her mother has yet to acknowledge. Edited September 5, 2009 by joskydive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooncake Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Don't you think that the "surprise" of paying sin sod would probably come as obstacle to the groom? If he's OK with it then fine, but it's not western culture. And, if they got married in Britain I doubt very strongly that he would want to pay...but, he might, depending on how much he loved her, how much pressure she put on him, and how rich he is.Oh and for your records, there is NO "farangland" just as there is no Asialand. I agree with you that this type of thinking by Thais is old fashioned and they should get with the times. Yep I would imagine he will be hearing of this little surprise soon enough, I have a feeling. I know, neither my parents nor I, will demand it. If she loves him too, she shouldn’t put any pressure on him…esp on this nonsense issue. Good marriage/relationship is also a two ways street…not just her street only. Why would you want to be married to someone who will boss over you ….to do THAT & THIS ….just in the name of tradition sake. Absurd and ridiculous Unless he doesn’t mind, then it’s his choice….up 2 him. Edited September 5, 2009 by mooncake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yabaaaa Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I know this his somewhat controversial subject has been discussed elsewhere within this forum but is anybody aware, or had personal experience of Sin Sod being requested offshore, in particular United Kingdom.The reason why I ask is that my wife shocked me with a very recent un-supported statement that if our eldest daughter who will be going to study in UK 2010 becomes involved in a relationship with a foreigner that leads to wedlock then the groom SHOULD be made aware of this part of Thai culture that is still practised to this very day .... What would be the immplications civil, and criminal in UK for such a request if things went wrong later. For the record, I do have personal experience of this when my wife and I married and I paid a UNDISCLOSED amount of Sin Sod in the form of gold purchased whilst working in the Middle East, so I am aware. OK when the time comes let her ask for a figure then halve it after all the relationship is only half Thai and she has to respect your culture too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 OK when the time comes let her ask for a figure then halve it after all the relationship is only half Thai and she has to respect your culture too. Not a fair compromise really as the guy will still be under pressure to pay something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanForbes Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I like sin. Sod the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I like sin. Sod the UK. I agree...tell them to "Sinsot this!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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