Maradonna - Great Player, Crap Manager

[glegolo]

It really makes me sad that you english guys is fighting as usual. As being a swede, born and raised with a fantastic british fotball legue. And when you did open your doors and let in the "foreigners" into your legue it was 300% better in quality. Soo many people is looking and enjoying your fotballgames in premier-legue.

I dont care if it is Arsenal, Everton. Man City, Chelsea, Bolton, Stoke etc etc, it is great entertainment. But have you noticed that these players are showing respect for each other after the games? It should be nice if also the supporters would do the same. i like to joke around with my friends whereof some is cheering for IFK Shitty Gothenburg and others for AIK, Stockholm. But there is a llimit where you show respect and still are being friends with each other.

Be happy with what you have, for me who have nothing like that in Sweden, I really envy you guys. When it comes to Maradonna, can comfort you, that this is not a british own syndrome, we all HATE that guy cheating his way instead of being a gentleman. I guess that, if you dig a whole for others.. you most likely will fall into it yourself... and maybe that is what happen now to him???

Glegolo

[rixalex]

When it comes to Maradonna, can comfort you, that this is not a british own syndrome, we all HATE that guy cheating his way instead of being a gentleman. I guess that, if you dig a whole for others.. you most likely will fall into it yourself... and maybe that is what happen now to him???

Couldn't agree with you more. And if he takes his team with him into that hole then that's their problem. Not something i'm going to worry about for a second.

If it upsets the "neutrals" to not see Messi and co i can live with that. I don't think the World Cup has some obligation to entertain the "neutrals".

[Macclad]

Potentially you could have 4 big teams having to qualify for the World Cup via the play offs.

Argentina,Portugal,France and Germany (if they lose to Russia away....quite possible).

Personally I cant understand Argentina appointing Maradona in the first place.Its like England appointing Gascoigne as manager.

I think Maradona will surely be shown the door sooner rather than later.

Would you fancy him taking over at Tranmere from John Barnes,Ken ??

[rixalex]

Personally I cant understand Argentina appointing Maradona in the first place.Its like England appointing Gascoigne as manager.

Precisely. It was a stupid appointment and now they are paying for it.

[SantiSuk]

I hope the Argie's get in. It was enough retribution to watch the big squelchy pampered pussycat that is now Maradonna squirm and bite his nails with that bereft 'Help Mummy - what the f*** do I do now' look on his face.

Contrast with the strange mix of nonchalance and aggression that is Capello - 'Do you like this suit? I don't really have to be here you know. I know we are 4 goals up but if you let one in I'm going to eat someone's goolies for breakfast'.

[StevieH]

i also think that patriotism is a bad thing,

What's bad about supporting the team from the country you were born? If you feel a connection with that place, with those people, with that culture, i would say it's a natural thing to do. Much in the same way that some people from Liverpool support Liverpool Football Club - they feel a connection to the place because it's part of who they are.

With National team supporters it's the same thing - just a much larger area of land that they have the connection with.

i have nothing in common with people from london, essex, cornwall or hertfordshire. not culturally, not economically, not historically, not socially. i have plenty in common with the people of liverpool. i share more with people from manchester than with those from the south of england. indeed i have more in common with the people of ireland or scotland than i probably do with people from the south. local tribalism based on a cultural upbringing i can get behind, uniting behind a common flag based on borders arbitrarily put in place by rich people and then governed from the south i cannot.

[rixalex]

i have nothing in common with people from london, essex, cornwall or hertfordshire.

Your passport says otherwise. And i do too. I recently traveled all over the UK and found there was much common ground between me and my fellow countrymen, pretty much wherever i went. When i walked into local pubs, yes i was an outsider, but not as an American, an African or a Thai say would be. I was instantly able to understand and get all of the conversation, understand the jokes, and quickly be accepted socially in a way that a foreigner might well not - at least not without a considerable amount of time and effort. And that's because fundamentally myself and those i met shared the same cultural DNA. Yes of course there are differences, but the core remains the same - British - it is unique, as most cultures are.

Perhaps what this is more about is not you having nothing in common with the people of southern England as you claim, but about you not wanting to have anything in common with them. They are the "enemy" and anyone who shares that view with you (ie the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh, Northern England in general, Australians etc), you have a natural affinity towards. Sharing hatred doesn't necessarily mean you are any more alike though.

[mrtoad]

i have nothing in common with people from london, essex, cornwall or hertfordshire. not culturally, not economically, not historically, not socially.

Cornwall please , and no us people from Cornwall don't like being governed by tossers from North of our border either. I don't particularly have an affinity for being English, in fact I would class myself as British first, and Cornish second. But hey that's another story. I'll enjoy seeing England do well, but it's not something that interests me the same as it did when I was a kid. As for Argentina, if they don't qualify it means that they are not good enough....tough shit, they have plenty of games to get it right in qualifying, so I wont be shedding any tears for them.

[StevieH]

Your passport says otherwise. And i do too. I recently traveled all over the UK and found there was much common ground between me and my fellow countrymen, pretty much wherever i went. When i walked into local pubs, yes i was an outsider, but not as an American, an African or a Thai say would be. I was instantly able to understand and get all of the conversation, understand the jokes, and quickly be accepted socially in a way that a foreigner might well not - at least not without a considerable amount of time and effort. And that's because fundamentally myself and those i met shared the same cultural DNA. Yes of course there are differences, but the core remains the same - British - it is unique, as most cultures are.

Perhaps what this is more about is not you having nothing in common with the people of southern England as you claim, but about you not wanting to have anything in common with them. They are the "enemy" and anyone who shares that view with you (ie the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh, Northern England in general, Australians etc), you have a natural affinity towards. Sharing hatred doesn't necessarily mean you are any more alike though.

my passport has nothing to do with it. you're talking about borders which were established arbitrarily by rich people centuries ago. i'm talking about local cultures, habits and practices, something which are entirely different in the north to the south of england, whatever your pub visits might have told you. and there's no such thing as 'british'. that's some made up imperial crap that scots, welsh and northern irish people had no say in, hence as you say why they generally do view the english as the enemy.

it's not about shared hatred. it's about a tacit acknowledgement that i have nothing in common with people from the south of england apart from being born on the same island by chance and coincidence. if i'd been born fifty miles west i'd be welsh and would feel even less 'english' than i do now. england is governed from london and historically has shat all over the north of the country politically, socially and economically, so i think it's pretty natural for northerners to put their cities and towns way out ahead of the england football team. which of course plays its matches in london.

[coxhoedave]

and there's no such thing as 'british'. that's some made up imperial crap that scots, welsh and northern irish people had no say in, hence as you say why they generally do view the english as the enemy.

Hi Steve, from my schooldays.

The union of the Scottish & English crowns in took place in 1603 when Elizabeth I was succeeded by James VI of Scotland, who also became James I of England. From that point the two were ruled by a single monarch, but through separate governmental systems. The Scottish king's dream however was a United Kingdom in the parliamentary sense.

This did not happen until 1707, after much debate in the Scottish parliament.

To suggest that it was some imperial crap that the Scots had no say in is incorrect.

As for no such thing as British - The Lyrics of Rule Britannia were written by a Scotsman, James Thompson.

[bkkjames]

thanks for the history lesson guys, now back to argentina, can you believe this crap that Madonna is gonna fly to Europe to tell the likes of auguro, mileto and possibly messi that they wont make the bench for their next mach?

[rixalex]

i'm talking about local cultures, habits and practices, something which are entirely different in the north to the south of england,

Entirely different is i believe an exaggeration.

Different yes, but then local cultures, habits and practices vary to some degree with every county in Britain - whether that be two neighbouring counties or two counties at opposite ends of the country

For me there is a common thread however that runs throughout Britain and that unites us. You obviously don't feel that and i'm not trying to change your mind.

One more point: some of the most fervently patriotic people i have met have been those from the north of the country, so this detatchment you speak of is a sentiment not shared by all. In fact the last northerner who i met in Bangkok recently told me that he had been waiting his entire life to leave what he descibed as "a shit-hole full of unemployed piss-heads, troublemakers and losers". He had no sense of attachment to his hometown whatsoever - in fact he vowed to never return, but all the same he was the one in the bar cheering on England the loudest. Just one bloke in a pub so i don't take too much notice of it, and i certainly don't think that the north is full of unemployed piss-heads, troublemakers and losers, but the point i was making is that two people can be born on the same piece of land and yet feel quite differently about it.

[coxhoedave]

thanks for the history lesson guys, now back to argentina, can you believe this crap that Madonna is gonna fly to Europe to tell the likes of auguro, mileto and possibly messi that they wont make the bench for their next mach?

OK sorry about that little diversion James. So to get back to the topic - Maradona is a man driven by emotion. As a player he was legendary but he was able to channel his emotions into physical activity.

As a coach his emotions clearly get in the way of common sense. Three goalkeepers in six games, strange substitutions, strange selections. The guy has already selected over 60 players in his brief reign.

If Argentina's possible exclusion from the world cup can take some of the shine of his reputation in his homeland EXCELLENT. As I said in my OP I have a long memory.

The exclusion of the likes of Tevez and Messi from the competition will be a small price to pay

[rixalex]

Well i for one am sorry that we'll get to suffer more of the Maradona circus next year.

If anyone needed confirmation of it, the events of the last few days surely have shown what a completly self-obssessed twunt the man is.

He deserves to fail, as does Argentina for inflicting him on us, and i sincerely hope England plays a part in their downfall.

[Bagwan]

my passport has nothing to do with it. you're talking about borders which were established arbitrarily by rich people centuries ago. i'm talking about local cultures, habits and practices, something which are entirely different in the north to the south of england, whatever your pub visits might have told you. and there's no such thing as 'british'. that's some made up imperial crap that scots, welsh and northern irish people had no say in, hence as you say why they generally do view the english as the enemy.

it's not about shared hatred. it's about a tacit acknowledgement that i have nothing in common with people from the south of england apart from being born on the same island by chance and coincidence. if i'd been born fifty miles west i'd be welsh and would feel even less 'english' than i do now. england is governed from london and historically has shat all over the north of the country politically, socially and economically, so i think it's pretty natural for northerners to put their cities and towns way out ahead of the england football team. which of course plays its matches in london.

It seems that history is not your strong point. I'll leave others to point out that your use of English grammar needs attention.

Since Roman times London has been the trading capital of the UK. Companies site their Head Offices in London to be close to the financial and insurance markets and to rub shoulders with politicians and Civil Service mandarins. Furthermore London was always a bigger and busier port than Liverpool. That Liverpool is now out in left field is due almost entirely to trades union aggressive demands, much the same as in the case of the London docks, hence the rise of Europort close by Rotterdam, and Felixstowe. If you feel that your forebears were oppressed give some thought to the antecedents of the cotton and wool barons and the mine owners. It was rich Northerners who financed and built the Liverpool and Manchester railway and all the main lines to London that followed. Their investments were made in the expectation of even greater profits.

My affinity with Liverpool, or rather the lack of it, is governed by the lack of decency and patriotism shown by Liverpool dockers during WW2 when they refused to accept the mooring lines of Captain 'Johnnie' Walker's little ships that had just spent three weeks out in the North Atlantic hunting U-boats and protecting the merchant ships bringing food, oil and munitions to the UK. If you think that swanning around in a frigate or corvette displacing less than 1400 tons in the winter gales of the North Atlantic is a load of fun, do I have news for you. It goes without saying that the ship's companies came from all corners of the UK.

The hallmark of a successful team is the ability to gel as a single entity, each member supporting and combining with his teammates. The same may be said of nations.

BTW I note that the 'soft South' crapped all over you again this week. Arsenal 2 Liverpool 1, Fulham 3 Liverpool 1. That must be a bitter pill for you to swallow. I still get a warm glow at the memory of the Dons turning you over at Wembley.

[bkkjames]

my passport has nothing to do with it. you're talking about borders which were established arbitrarily by rich people centuries ago. i'm talking about local cultures, habits and practices, something which are entirely different in the north to the south of england, whatever your pub visits might have told you. and there's no such thing as 'british'. that's some made up imperial crap that scots, welsh and northern irish people had no say in, hence as you say why they generally do view the english as the enemy.

it's not about shared hatred. it's about a tacit acknowledgement that i have nothing in common with people from the south of england apart from being born on the same island by chance and coincidence. if i'd been born fifty miles west i'd be welsh and would feel even less 'english' than i do now. england is governed from london and historically has shat all over the north of the country politically, socially and economically, so i think it's pretty natural for northerners to put their cities and towns way out ahead of the england football team. which of course plays its matches in london.

It seems that history is not your strong point. I'll leave others to point out that your use of English grammar needs attention.

Since Roman times London has been the trading capital of the UK. Companies site their Head Offices in London to be close to the financial and insurance markets and to rub shoulders with politicians and Civil Service mandarins. Furthermore London was always a bigger and busier port than Liverpool. That Liverpool is now out in left field is due almost entirely to trades union aggressive demands, much the same as in the case of the London docks, hence the rise of Europort close by Rotterdam, and Felixstowe. If you feel that your forebears were oppressed give some thought to the antecedents of the cotton and wool barons and the mine owners. It was rich Northerners who financed and built the Liverpool and Manchester railway and all the main lines to London that followed. Their investments were made in the expectation of even greater profits.

My affinity with Liverpool, or rather the lack of it, is governed by the lack of decency and patriotism shown by Liverpool dockers during WW2 when they refused to accept the mooring lines of Captain 'Johnnie' Walker's little ships that had just spent three weeks out in the North Atlantic hunting U-boats and protecting the merchant ships bringing food, oil and munitions to the UK. If you think that swanning around in a frigate or corvette displacing less than 1400 tons in the winter gales of the North Atlantic is a load of fun, do I have news for you. It goes without saying that the ship's companies came from all corners of the UK.

The hallmark of a successful team is the ability to gel as a single entity, each member supporting and combining with his teammates. The same may be said of nations.

BTW I note that the 'soft South' crapped all over you again this week. Arsenal 2 Liverpool 1, Fulham 3 Liverpool 1. That must be a bitter pill for you to swallow. I still get a warm glow at the memory of the Dons turning you over at Wembley.

It's tough for us cranial challenged football forum fans to follow your argument / debate if you are going to take two months between posts.

[Jimjim]

And here I thought an update to this topic possibly meant Maradona was out as manager...

[rixalex]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/i...als/8311013.stm

What daft punishment! A two month ban that will see him miss the World Cup draw! He must be devastated.