Driving In Thailand

[maikee]

It's the bluffers that bug me the most... The ones that push the limits to see if you're really going to take your right of way. Like the guys wanting to cross a busy stree slowing edging into traffic to try to force someone to stop out of fear of hitting you. These guys get the lights and the horn for the clear message... And lots of bad vibes 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ajarn, can't really agree, it's just part of driving over here. A required skill actually. Try making a turn/u-turn on Sukhumvit or on the highways during busy traffic times without "bluffing". You'll be there forever. It's not really bluffing, it's just a series of small land grabs till you finally get enough space to make your move.. And if you are in front of a long line of people waiting on You to turn/u-turn, it is your responsibilty to employ this tactic. Well maybe not your responsibility.. Someone else will go around you and take the lead if you cannot.

[Ajarn]

It's the bluffers that bug me the most... The ones that push the limits to see if you're really going to take your right of way. Like the guys wanting to cross a busy stree slowing edging into traffic to try to force someone to stop out of fear of hitting you. These guys get the lights and the horn for the clear message... And lots of bad vibes 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ajarn, can't really agree, it's just part of driving over here. A required skill actually. Try making a turn/u-turn on Sukhumvit or on the highways during busy traffic times without "bluffing". You'll be there forever. It's not really bluffing, it's just a series of small land grabs till you finally get enough space to make your move.. And if you are in front of a long line of people waiting on You to turn/u-turn, it is your responsibilty to employ this tactic. Well maybe not your responsibility.. Someone else will go around you and take the lead if you cannot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet you're a young man.

[maikee]

It's the bluffers that bug me the most... The ones that push the limits to see if you're really going to take your right of way. Like the guys wanting to cross a busy stree slowing edging into traffic to try to force someone to stop out of fear of hitting you. These guys get the lights and the horn for the clear message... And lots of bad vibes 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ajarn, can't really agree, it's just part of driving over here. A required skill actually. Try making a turn/u-turn on Sukhumvit or on the highways during busy traffic times without "bluffing". You'll be there forever. It's not really bluffing, it's just a series of small land grabs till you finally get enough space to make your move.. And if you are in front of a long line of people waiting on You to turn/u-turn, it is your responsibilty to employ this tactic. Well maybe not your responsibility.. Someone else will go around you and take the lead if you cannot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet you're a young man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to think so... I'm not sure I consider 40 all that young, but if that meets your definition of young then good

I could choose to do as you do and fight the system, getting pissed off at every driver who "bluffs" his way into "my" space... you must get pissed off a lot. Or, understand the "rules" of the road and play by the same "rules". It ain't that hard.

[Harmonica]

I have been driving here for a while now and still don't know how to say,  "after you", or "come on, I am letting you go!" What I do is stick my arm out the window, if open, and wave them. I am surprised that Thai people don't seem to do this as much as westerners(not that surprised though). I understand the  little guys in their new toyota hilux vigo flashing their lights when cutting in front of you to turn right, as they think they own the road, but the normal car drivers??

In the Uk you flash your lights to tell people to go before you. Here it is the opposite. .

Does anyone know if there is such a signal?

Stick your dick out the window -- they ALL respect size!

[ovenman]

As for walking, ha ha, how many times do Thai people walk into you?

The funny thing about that, or about Thai people crossing a street without watching the oncoming traffic, is if you try to describe this sort of behaviour to people back in FarangLand they look at you as though you were making up the story.

[toastwars]

As for walking, ha ha, how many times do Thai people walk into you?

The funny thing about that, or about Thai people crossing a street without watching the oncoming traffic, is if you try to describe this sort of behaviour to people back in FarangLand they look at you as though you were making up the story.

Thais have no spacial awareness at all, constantly blundering into things, and why do they dawldle at a snails pace in a line that takes up the whole pavement. very self absorbed along with the driving, not sure I understand it myself

[Ajarn]

It's the bluffers that bug me the most... The ones that push the limits to see if you're really going to take your right of way. Like the guys wanting to cross a busy stree slowing edging into traffic to try to force someone to stop out of fear of hitting you. These guys get the lights and the horn for the clear message... And lots of bad vibes 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ajarn, can't really agree, it's just part of driving over here. A required skill actually. Try making a turn/u-turn on Sukhumvit or on the highways during busy traffic times without "bluffing". You'll be there forever. It's not really bluffing, it's just a series of small land grabs till you finally get enough space to make your move.. And if you are in front of a long line of people waiting on You to turn/u-turn, it is your responsibilty to employ this tactic. Well maybe not your responsibility.. Someone else will go around you and take the lead if you cannot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet you're a young man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to think so... I'm not sure I consider 40 all that young, but if that meets your definition of young then good

I could choose to do as you do and fight the system, getting pissed off at every driver who "bluffs" his way into "my" space... you must get pissed off a lot. Or, understand the "rules" of the road and play by the same "rules". It ain't that hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I do know the rules of the road, and consideration and safety do still have a role here, even if you are more concerned with your own needs while driving, rather than your own safety and the safety of others...

What you're talking about is, literally, 'playing chicken' with cars that have the right of way. What you are doing is continually eating away at any safety margin by pushing your car into on-coming traffic. Yes, sure some people do that. There are selfish and dangerous drivers among any group of drivers anywhere. People like that make the dangers of driving here even that much more dangerous.

Now, while I'm waiting for a hole to jump into with relative safety, if you want to come around me and force other drivers to stop to keep from hitting you, and thereby also making space for me to do the u-turn, well, that is what the majority of drivers do, and I would, too. 20 years of driving here has taught me a couple of things.... Another of those things is to give farang drivers all my attention, and the right of way whenever possible, the reasoning being amply demonstrated by your expressed driving strategy.

Edited March 17, 2005 by Ajarn

[maikee]

It's the bluffers that bug me the most... The ones that push the limits to see if you're really going to take your right of way. Like the guys wanting to cross a busy stree slowing edging into traffic to try to force someone to stop out of fear of hitting you. These guys get the lights and the horn for the clear message... And lots of bad vibes 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ajarn, can't really agree, it's just part of driving over here. A required skill actually. Try making a turn/u-turn on Sukhumvit or on the highways during busy traffic times without "bluffing". You'll be there forever. It's not really bluffing, it's just a series of small land grabs till you finally get enough space to make your move.. And if you are in front of a long line of people waiting on You to turn/u-turn, it is your responsibilty to employ this tactic. Well maybe not your responsibility.. Someone else will go around you and take the lead if you cannot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet you're a young man.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to think so... I'm not sure I consider 40 all that young, but if that meets your definition of young then good

I could choose to do as you do and fight the system, getting pissed off at every driver who "bluffs" his way into "my" space... you must get pissed off a lot. Or, understand the "rules" of the road and play by the same "rules". It ain't that hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I do know the rules of the road, and consideration and safety do still have a role here, even if you are more concerned with your own needs while driving, rather than your own safety and the safety of others...

What you're talking about is, literally, 'playing chicken' with cars that have the right of way. What you are doing is continually eating away at any safety margin by pushing your car into on-coming traffic. Yes, sure some people do that. There are selfish and dangerous drivers among any group of drivers anywhere. People like that make the dangers of driving here even that much more dangerous.

Now, while I'm waiting for a hole to jump into with relative safety, if you want to come around me and force other drivers to stop to keep from hitting you, and thereby also making space for me to do the u-turn, well, that is what the majority of drivers do, and I would, too. 20 years of driving here has taught me a couple of things.... Another of those things is to give farang drivers all my attention, and the right of way whenever possible, the reasoning being amply demonstrated by your expressed driving strategy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK. I can't argue with your reasoning. However, I can't argue with the rules of the road here in Thailand either. It's the way it is and I have just chosen to adapt. I'm relatively happy and fairly stress free when driving in Thailand.. You on the other hand drive around constantly pissed off and stressed out. I'd argue that you are being more dangerous by concentrating solely on that one person inching out in front of you (assuming that is what you are doing). If you had been more prepared, you could have moved over ever so slightly, even a whole lane with little or no effort, hence saving you stress and bad feelings.

Well.. my wife feels totally safe when driving with me. My mother-in-law on any day would rather me drive than her own son (who's a pretty good driver). Driving home one night after a party on a typically unlit, dog infested country road with a truckload of people, the Poo Yai Bahn commented that I was very smooth. Many other Thai folks have commented positively on my driving, So, I don't know, I guess I must be doing something right.

Be that as it may.. I still disagree with you. The "playing chicken" and "bluffing" aren't that big of a deal, at least it doesn't hinder my progress in any way. I still feel it is a necessary skill to have, especially when driving in Bangkok. It's not unsafe, selfish, or any other derogatory term you care to throw at it. It's just the way it is. And thank you for giving me the right of way... I'll be in a little green Mazda Fighter since you are keeping an eye out

[Ajarn]

You on the other hand drive around constantly pissed off and stressed out.

You are clearly clueless about that, so please don't pretend you have one

Best of luck to staying alive here on the roads. You'll need it

[taxexile]

neerenram

I understand the little guys in their new toyota hilux vigo flashing their lights when cutting in front of you to turn right, as they think they own the road, but the normal car drivers??

sounds like just a smidgen of envy there neerenram !!

since getting the vigo i find i'm driving much slower than when i had a "normal" car , the size of the thing tends to focus the mind a bit.

i have also noticed that because it looks a bit larger than "normal" cars other road users tend to move out of the way and give way without the need for any aggressive light flashing or tailgating or in fact signalling of any kind , leaving me more time to admire the flowing lines of the instrument panel and centre console , the gentle sweep of the bonnet , the nicely weighted feel of the power steering and the serene look on the face of my revolving neon lit flashing dashboard buddha.

with more and more of these big pickups coming onto the market , it's only a matter of time neerenram before you find yourself sitting comfortably behind the wheel of one and are eating your own words along with a side dish of humble pie.

happy (and safe ) motoring.

Edited March 17, 2005 by taxexile

[maikee]

You on the other hand drive around constantly pissed off and stressed out.

Best of luck to staying alive here on the roads. You'll need it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ya, I was just thinking about that today on the way back from Lotus, especially after our recent exchange... given the way life can be ironic sometimes.

Cheers!

[Loaded]

When I passed my UK driving test i emerged right across one lane at a T-junction as I had been waiting over 5 minutes for someone to let me out. The examiner passed me. There is a line between assertiveness (requirement of passing the advanced driving test in UK) and aggression. I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

[Ajarn]

When I passed my UK driving test i emerged right across one lane at a T-junction as I had been waiting over 5 minutes for someone to let me out. The examiner passed me. There is a line between assertiveness (requirement of passing the advanced driving test in UK) and aggression. I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How slow?

To suggest it's not dangerous to force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop, or hit you, seems totally ridiculous to me. Hole jumping is a different story, and the most common way here, in my experience. That is simply taking advantage of the opportunity, versus causing a danger to EVERYONE around by trying push others around with your car, now the lethal weapon...

Good luck to you, too

[Loaded]

I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How slow?

To suggest it's not dangerous to force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop, or hit you, seems totally ridiculous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nudging into slow moving traffic does not mean force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop

please read again

[Ajarn]

I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How slow?

To suggest it's not dangerous to force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop, or hit you, seems totally ridiculous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nudging into slow moving traffic does not mean force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop

please read again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read it 5 times, and I still couldn't figure where you 'emerged' from, and I could make no sense from your post. Maybe you should be more clear with what your 'nudging' entails... You were responding to people talking about crossing a busy street, or making a u-turn into traffic. 'Nudging', in my book doesn't somehow make it not dangerous. It's still forcing your way into oncoming/cross traffic, from my view, an inherrently dangerous move if you have to force others to stop to make way for you.

Please think again

[Loaded]

I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How slow?

To suggest it's not dangerous to force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop, or hit you, seems totally ridiculous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nudging into slow moving traffic does not mean force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop

please read again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read it 5 times, and I still couldn't figure where you 'emerged' from, and I could make no sense from your post. Maybe you should be more clear with what your 'nudging' entails... You were responding to people talking about crossing a busy street, or making a u-turn into traffic. 'Nudging', in my book doesn't somehow make it not dangerous. It's still forcing your way into oncoming/cross traffic, from my view, an inherrently dangerous move if you have to force others to stop to make way for you.

Please think again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should think a bit more and read a bit less!!!

emerging right from a T-junction. You can only emerge right from one direction at a T-junction.

[Ajarn]

I feel nudging into slow moving traffic is not dangerous and is acceptable here and the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How slow?

To suggest it's not dangerous to force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop, or hit you, seems totally ridiculous to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nudging into slow moving traffic does not mean force your way into oncoming traffic to force them to stop

please read again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read it 5 times, and I still couldn't figure where you 'emerged' from, and I could make no sense from your post. Maybe you should be more clear with what your 'nudging' entails... You were responding to people talking about crossing a busy street, or making a u-turn into traffic. 'Nudging', in my book doesn't somehow make it not dangerous. It's still forcing your way into oncoming/cross traffic, from my view, an inherrently dangerous move if you have to force others to stop to make way for you.

Please think again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should think a bit more and read a bit less!!!

emerging right from a T-junction. You can only emerge right from one direction at a T-junction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, so English doesn't seem to be your native language.... Anyway, hope you drive safely here, even if you don't think your movements are dangerous

Edited March 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[Loaded]

I guess that was intended as an insult.

[maikee]

Ajarn,

Seriously, I'm really surprised at your attitude.. especially after 20 years of driving here. The "rules" of the road here are the "rules" of the road. The kind of actions that cause you so much grief are a fact of life. Nudging into traffic is not safe... to you. Lots of different perceptions in the world as to the "safe" way to perform a certain act. Anyway, It's obviously just SOP for the other drivers out there. Now granted.. there are those that really push the limit, the ones, especially the big trucks at the motorway U-turns that do the jump and stop routine. I've just learned to be prepared at the u-turn areas... usually am already over in the middle lane. Sometimes I have to stop (along with everyone else) to let a line off 20 truck through... Big deal... didn't ruin my day.

I'll answer your obvious reply by saying that I will continue to drive safe, watch out for others.. and have fun. I'll be on the lookup for the guy coming down the street blowing his horn, flashing his lights, and whatever else... I'll be sure to give him a wide berth.

Cheers and more importantly Happy Driving

[Ajarn]

Ajarn,

       Seriously, I'm really surprised at your attitude.. especially after 20 years of driving here.  The "rules" of the road here are the "rules" of the road.  The kind of actions that cause you so much grief are a fact of life.  Nudging into traffic is not safe... to you. Lots of different perceptions in the world as to the "safe" way to perform a certain act. Anyway, It's obviously just SOP for the other drivers out there.  Now granted.. there are those that really push the limit, the ones, especially the big trucks at the motorway U-turns that do the jump and stop routine. I've just learned to be prepared at the u-turn areas... usually  am already over in the middle lane. Sometimes I have to stop (along with everyone else) to let a line off 20 truck through... Big deal... didn't ruin my day.

       I'll answer your obvious reply by saying that I will continue to drive safe, watch out for others.. and have fun.  I'll be on the lookup for the guy coming down the street blowing his horn, flashing his lights, and whatever else... I'll be sure to give him a wide berth. 

Cheers and more importantly Happy Driving 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why should you be surprised at anything I write? (Any attitude you perceive is your own, obviously) My writing is most always clearly defined and illustrated in various ways, since I want to be as clear and straight-up as possible. Yet, some people still choose to entertain their own stories it seems, like my mood while I'm driving. As a matter of fact, driving is very relaxing and meditative for me. I'm also accident-free after more than two million miles of driving, many of them professionaly.

As I said, I do know the rules of the road here. I know your rules, too, and I know how to anticipate dangerous drivers most of the time. The moves you refer to are nothing special, but they sure aren't safe, or used by most drivers, no matter what you want to sugar-coat it as. That's your style, and that's your choice to make. My only point is that the driving actions I've described a few times is dangerous, and anyone who can't see that sounds, to me, like a driver with questionable driving judgement, making them a danger to anyone around, in my view... . You've also mentioned your selfish reasoning a couple of times, for example, "The "playing chicken" and "bluffing" aren't that big of a deal, at least it doesn't hinder my progress in any way"...

We all want our way, but thankfully some most people here still try to cooperate with others and not create dangers for others by our aggressive and dangerous driving...

I've said everything I can think of on this issue, and illustrated it a few different ways, so that's enough from me. You can agree or disagree, up to you.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[TizMe]

You are all pussies. After driving in Saudi Arabia, the Thais are perfect gentlemen.

On my first day in Saudi, I was going around a multi lane roundabout in a taxi. We were overtaken by a Suburban (large V8 van) on 2 wheels.

From that day on, things only got worse.

[taxexile]

I'm also accident-free after more than two million miles of driving, many of them professionaly......

........ and the rest of them amateurishly ????

ajarn , 2,000,000 miles is over 200 miles a day , every working day , for 40 years.

is that right ???

[Ajarn]

I'm also accident-free after more than two million miles of driving, many of them professionaly......

........ and the rest of them amateurishly ????

ajarn , 2,000,000 miles is over 200 miles a day , every working day , for 40 years.

is that right ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, lots of driving over the years, including literally hundreds of trips from SF to NY and back driving for Green Tortoise... Anyone remember them? I was one of the original folks with them in the 70's, and I spent 10 years doing that kind of gig, among others.... I've always loved driving. A couple of years with Yellow Cab, too. Here, I average 5,000 k's per month... Guess I'm slowing down

And yes, outside of fantasizing I'm AJ Foyt, all my other miles have been as an amateur, sometimes amateurishly, too!..

I think I did overestimated a bit, though. I have a lot more than a million miles for sure, but I doubt it's more than 2 million, as I said.. In the heat of the moment, and all that... .

Edited March 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[maikee]

Ajarn,

That's a lot of seat time over the years. Congratulations on your driving record as well ( I mean that too ). You've obviously got your attitudes about driving. One can hardly find fault with your results.

However, we are not in West where the city and highway infrastuctures are set up for the most part with maintaining orderly traffic flow. In some areas... to use an analogy, it seem like trying to stuff 10lbs of sh1t into a 5lb bag. On the highways here, especially the busy one's with lots of truck traffic, you have those areas where everyone is doing the bluff... eventually enough people on the highway come to a stop and will let a string of people through. Inconceivable in the West. But what are they to do? Wait for a police officer to come and make people stop? It ain't "safe", sure, but it's sometimes necessary.

How about in Bangkok, with little to no turn lanes? On a busy day, if you are incapable of "forcing" your way safely (save the incredulity) into traffic (which in turn allows a string of people behind you to go as well) you are backing everyone up, causing even more chaos behind you, which you are blissfully unaware of.

As I said before, there are those who take this to the extreme and become bully's on the road, happens everywhere in the world. But if you are going around getting angry at everyone who is doing this without analyzing the situation...Like what's the traffic situation?... What is the current speed?... The person who wants to rudely force his way in... what does the line of traffic behind/beside him look like. Maybe you could be cooperative and just stop in certain situations and let these folks through? I don't know man.. I just think in some cases that you are misplacing some anger.

Tizme.. Tell me about it. I was over in Kuwait back in the mid-90's for a few weeks. Always got a laugh at the locals flying by us in their Caprice's at about 120, talking on the cell phone, smoking a cigarette. Those multi-lane roundabouts are fun.

Spent 3 weeks too long (out of 2 weeks 6 days) in India. That place was flat out crazy. Constant... never ceasing.. horn blaring. Thailand seemed absolutely quiet and serene compared to that place.

[Jai Dee]

Off-topic for a moment...

Nice avatar maikee.

Is that the top level (7th) of the Erawan waterfalls in Kanchanaburi?

[maikee]

Off-topic for a moment...

Nice avatar maikee. 

Is that the top level (7th) of the Erawan waterfalls in Kanchanaburi?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no... only the second. We were on the last day of a little road trip. I miscalculated the time it would take to get there and we ended up getting there pretty close to closing time, but the close the access to the upper falls even earlier. At least getting there late meant I could get some clear pictures without other people

I've been wanting to get back there. I'm guessing now may be the good time to get back before the rainy season starts up. Beutiful drive and a beautiful place.

We ended up driving all those little 2-land secondary roads back over to Saraburi. It was dusk and the roads were jammed with big trucks, small trucks, slow cars, fast cars, motorcycles in coming in both directions on the shoulders. Some folks had their lights on, others did not. pedestrian traffic. It was a little dusty as well. Folks passing 4 wide. I had to make room for quite a few people who just flat out ran out of room (trying to pass a long string of cars backed up behind one of the big trucks traveling at 40kph) and no place to go. That wasn't a lot of fun.. I'll plan a little different if I go that route again.

[Jai Dee]

Off-topic for a moment...

Nice avatar maikee. 

Is that the top level (7th) of the Erawan waterfalls in Kanchanaburi?

no... only the second. We were on the last day of a little road trip. I miscalculated the time it would take to get there and we ended up getting there pretty close to closing time, but the close the access to the upper falls even earlier. At least getting there late meant I could get some clear pictures without other people

I've been wanting to get back there. I'm guessing now may be the good time to get back before the rainy season starts up. Beutiful drive and a beautiful place.

We ended up driving all those little 2-land secondary roads back over to Saraburi. It was dusk and the roads were jammed with big trucks, small trucks, slow cars, fast cars, motorcycles in coming in both directions on the shoulders. Some folks had their lights on, others did not. pedestrian traffic. It was a little dusty as well. Folks passing 4 wide. I had to make room for quite a few people who just flat out ran out of room (trying to pass a long string of cars backed up behind one of the big trucks traveling at 40kph) and no place to go. That wasn't a lot of fun.. I'll plan a little different if I go that route again.

I'd wait a bit until the rain starts again before visiting Erawan... it's pretty dry at the moment and the falls would probably be just a trickle.

If you do get the chance, continue on up the dry weather road to the Huay Mekhamin falls... the absolute best set of waterfalls in Thailand... truly spectacular. You can get to them either by following the dry weather road around the Kheow Leam dam, or by getting a car ferry from higway 323 across the dam. Well worth the trip!

And as for driving, unless it's a weekday, I've found that it's best staying away from those secondary roads... stick to the main motorways, and traffic is not so tedious.

[Ajarn]

maikee, Most of what you describe now is hole jumping by someone, with a string of cars following suit... Now the mass is on the side of Might, and the oncoming traffic stops so the flow can make the turn, or cross... That is the rule of 'Might is Right', too. Another example would be an uncontrolled busy intersection.... People arriving at the intersection wait until their mass is biggest, and when a hole opens up after the previous mass has passed, then they all move together... Other traffic yeilds to the bigger mass, too, until the other mass is smaller (by moving through already and now it's clear), and their's is now bigger, so they move... But nobody is really forcing cars to stop in a dangerous way, like the individual car pushing into fast moving traffic and not waiting for even a slight hole as I've been describing, and which I see a lot, too... I drive in Bkk, too, and there is ALWAYS going to be a hole opening at some point, and I've never had to wait long, as long as I pay close attention to the holes.. I know I have other drivers on my back, watching to see that I take those holes, so that they can hopefully move on my move.... But I've never needed to forcefully force cars to stop, because, hopefully, the oncoming drivers can see someone stepping into the hole that they created by leaving the space open.. If they don't want to give up the space, then they keep it close, signalling to cross traffic that there isn't a hole big enough to lay claim to. And of someone is creating a dangerous situation trying to force me to stop with cars on my butt going 120, then, yes, they'll get my lights and horn. That's also the rule of the road here...

I know I may seem anal about all this, but I've survived driving in many countries by following the local game, minus the idiot stuff. In most places, even though it seems like chaos, there is usually a method to the madness, meaning people cooperate with these unwritten rules of the road.. When I hear someone saying something like, 'I'll do as I want as long as I'm not inconvenienced', well, that kind of attitude is dangerous to everyone, and it is what can make driving a deadly affair anywhere. It the US, you have heavy enforcement of traffic laws, but here, there's virtually nothing, so cooperation is the ONLY way to drive safely here.

I much prefer the no-cops situation, personally. Here, it can work more efficiently without the cops if people cooperate.... Like at the uncontrolled intersection I described, I'll bet you've seen instances where cops controlling the traffic flow actually cause more traffic to back up... TiT

I'll be on the lookup for the guy coming down the street blowing his horn, flashing his lights, and whatever else... I'll be sure to give him a wide berth.

That makes 2 of us

Jaidee, I love theHuay Mekhamin falls, too. Great place to go in the rainy season..

[Neeranam]

I know I may seem anal about all this, but I've survived driving in many countries by following the local game, minus the idiot stuff. In most places, even though it seems like chaos, there is usually a method to the madness, meaning people cooperate with these unwritten rules of the road.. When I hear someone saying something like, 'I'll do as I want as long as I'm not inconvenienced', well, that kind of attitude is dangerous to everyone, and it is what can make driving a deadly affair anywhere. It the US, you have heavy enforcement of traffic laws, but here, there's virtually nothing, so cooperation is the ONLY way to drive safely here.

I much prefer the no-cops situation, personally. Here, it can work more efficiently without the cops if people cooperate.... Like at the uncontrolled intersection I described, I'll bet you've seen instances where cops controlling the traffic flow actually cause more traffic to back up... TiT

Interesting, and good last post Ajarn.

You are right about the mass is might stuff.

You must follow the "home rules" to ensure safety. I have met lots of farang who constantly moan about how Thais drive. One must change one's style of driving. My style has seemed to change osmotically over the past 5 years or so, driving in rural Thailand. I don't realise how much it has changed until I take my family and friends from home(UK) around Thailand.

It doesn't seem logical that an uncontrolled intersection should work, but I agree with you, it is better, and I too prefer them, not on the busy motorways though.

I don't usually give a toss about the people behind me. If you are behind me and in a hurry, the worst thing you can do is flash your lights and beep your horn. I know this is wrong and stupid perhaps, and I am working on changing this.

[maikee]

Ajarn... agree with everything you said in your last post, maybe we have been talking past each other I just really don't get upset about people bluffing their way/forcing their way in.. I've had to use my lights on almost every trip, but as a warning to those who are either pushing the envelope or maybe just aren't paying attention, no elevated stress levels though .. And you are right... If you wait long enough, a break (however slight) in the action will occur. However, I've watched and learned here, seeing all kinds of different folks.. taxi drivers to Moms in their Camry's. Everyone (that I have noticed) has a point at which they have waited long enough and if a visible break is not in site, they decide to create one (In what I contend is in a safe manner, given the tacit understanding of the "rules" by everyone driving here). I've never had a Thai honk at me or flash his lights. I also usually give a courtesy wave on occassion although I don't know if that really is needed.

I don't know why, but I don't get near as pissed off here as I do driving back in the U.S. I guess there is more of a freedom and kind of a flow here that on one hand may seem like uncontrolled chaos, but then on the other, it all seems to work. The only folks who really get me torqued off are the guys blasting up from behind spastically flashing their lights for me to get out ot the way. If they had bothered to look at traffic, they'd realize there was a stack of cars in front of me (or some other circumstance preventing me from conveniently moving over). These guys, as opposed to the guys who know how to jai yen, get no courtesy from me. The folks who do give me a little pause are the guys on the other side of the big passesnger busses at the motorway u-turn areas.. peeking their nose out even further than the bus... Just relax,let the big guy to the work, and follow their lead!

Ya, police directing traffic cause more delays than they are preventing. However, luckily, there was a police directing traffic Tuesday I think it was. Coming back up north I think I counted at least 10 accidents on highway 9 (motorway). The final accident being a truck that jackknifed on on the bridge leading to the onrap heading north. Everyone had to divert off to the left (cramming in 2 wide on a 1 lane onramp), drive a bit, then do a U-turn... I was not really looking forward to negotiating that U-turn as it was absolutely packed with traffic.. Luckily, there was an officer there letting strings of vehicles through at I guess 5 minute intervals.

Ajarn, driving styles here are not going to change (As yours will not and that's good). I'm sure you've realized that now in all your time driving here. Why not look at that particular situation (hole jumping) in a different light? It'll certainly reduce any anger or bad feelings you have in that circumstance anyway.

ok ok... that cat is flat

cheers