Varee Chiang Mai School

[Mapguy]

Will be looking into Montford and a couple of other places this fall because I fear for my kids if they ever have to get a job outside of Thailand.

If you seriously want to enable your kids to compete in the international jobs market, then surely an International School is the only real option. No matter how good the English programme may be in a Bilingual School, if it's teaching the Thai curriculum then the resulting qualifications will have limited appeal to employers or further education establishments outside Asia. I would have thought Montfort, would be teaching the same or likely a more limited set of lessons than your son is receiving now and I don't think the class sizes are significantly different either. Schools teaching curricula such as SAT, IB or IGCSE are all available around CM, albeit at a significantly higher cost.

P.S. There are one or two great farang teachers in the BP program who in my opinion are slumming it at this school.

By this you mean what, exactly? They're too good to be teaching our kids? They should be in one of the other programmes/other schools? It's likely that the teachers and the parents of kids being taught by them feel differently - I know I would.

If your child comes home without homework, is it because he isn't set any or does he leave it at school or even do it before he comes home? I find that if my stepson says hasn't got any, a quick look in his homework book usually leads to the facts and since I make an effort to ensure he does it and then to sign his book I assume that he's doing what is required. Granted, the homework he is set seems a fairly small amount but I don't think I want to preside over hours of set work every evening after he's had an eight hour day at school. At eight, half an hour seems like a fair amount.

I do understand that the Thai system is generally light on homework and heavy on extra tuition but other than extra lessons to get my stepson's written Thai up to standard (blame firmly with the last school by the way), I don't see any particular problems beyond those I came across in the UK during a previous life.

Writing that, it occurred to me to wonder if the emphasis on extra coaching rather than homework might be designed to serve the purpose of reducing the workload of the daytime teaching staff, shifting it to outside tuition so they can supplement their income beyond the tax system. The teachers I know in the UK put in a huge amount of time marking homework outside "normal" school hours for which the pay and holiday structure is supposed to compensate (although I know many would argue about how effective it does that!). If homework was doled out in the same quantities as in Europe teachers here would seldom have the time or energy to moonlight. I'm referring to Thai schools in general by the way, not Varee. Just a thought...

I appreciate what you have written, but don't agree with all. For one, I would like to suggest that a lack of homework does not necessarily equate with quality of instruction or effort on the part of the teacher.

I am somewhat bewildered by the reflection on UK teachers. Huh?! No good teacher's day is done when the end-of-school bell rings! What is that about?! Perhaps you are talking about poor as opposed to good teaching, not the difference between countries.

The major regrettable thing, generally, about low-financed systems, be it in any economically developing country [or in the UK], is that teachers simply get paid an absurdly low wage except for some ridiculous union rules (as in the UK) that do abet the lame and the lazy.

My experience in Thailand, however, has been that teachers here generally do not make much business out of tutoring while not doing their jobs at school, not that they are unhappy to pick up some tutoring work. Many work hard, in my view. Some don't. That includes the "lame" as well as the seemingly lazy. But then there are the lame and lazy everywhere.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Mapguy

[BlackArtemis]

Some of the Thai teachers at government schools make decent baht doing after school or Saturday classes in their classrooms, of course the school gets a cut. Some even buly parents into making their kid study there and grade will mysteriously drop if the child is not in these after school classes and will miraculously raise if they are put in.

If a Thai teacher has a good command of English, they can make even better money tutoring at their house or rent a place out.

[Mapguy]

Some of the Thai teachers at government schools make decent baht doing after school or Saturday classes in their classrooms, of course the school gets a cut. Some even buly parents into making their kid study there and grade will mysteriously drop if the child is not in these after school classes and will miraculously raise if they are put in.

If a Thai teacher has a good command of English, they can make even better money tutoring at their house or rent a place out.

Okay, yes, some teachers make some extra money tutoring. I don't see a big problem with that except when they might spend so much energy (A working day is a working day!) that they do not provide to their students in the classroom the attention they ought to get.

But you have made a serious accusation here about schools and individual teachers, so I ask:

What schools "buly" parents? What teachers? Where do such grades seem to shift due to avarice? Specifically, please! You won't get sued, I am sure.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Mapguy

[BlackArtemis]

Some of the Thai teachers at government schools make decent baht doing after school or Saturday classes in their classrooms, of course the school gets a cut. Some even buly parents into making their kid study there and grade will mysteriously drop if the child is not in these after school classes and will miraculously raise if they are put in.

If a Thai teacher has a good command of English, they can make even better money tutoring at their house or rent a place out.

Okay, yes, some teachers make some extra money tutoring. I don't see a big problem with that except when they might spend so much energy (A working day is a working day!) that they do not provide to their students in the classroom the attention they ought to get.

But you have made a serious accusation here about schools and individual teachers, so I ask:

What schools "buly" parents? What teachers? Where do such grades seem to shift due to avarice? Specifically, please! You won't get sued, I am sure.

Sorry, missed an l there, bully is what I meant to say.

The teachers I am referring to and know for a fact that they do this (through coworkers and parents of students in these classes) are at a school and schools in general that no one on this forum would be consider sending their kid's to. IE government schools.

[Puwa]

I consider any school--international, bilingual, or Thai--that rewards inquisitiveness and encourages creativity to be doing its job. Unfortunately, I don't see this habit in Thai schools. For various reasons, the teachers and the systems prize the student's ability to conform to a rigid system--curriculum, discipline, values--not to figure out for themselves what things mean. So if you have kids in Thai schools, make sure to inculcate critical thinking at home. If you can do this, then the question of which school one attends become less important. Be prepared, however, for your child to bump up against the system from time to time by performing such outrageous acts as asking questions and expressing opinions.

[jackr]

I think if the school's in a convenient spot for you and looks good enough it's worth trying out. You can always change as and when. Of course you need to gen up on a place first, but it could be the best around and your nipper just doesn't get on with it. I also think that pushing too much homework on them at an early age is not a good thing either. Mine currently goes to Dara but I'd be looking to CMIS, Nakorn Payap or Prem if I had the dosh for sure.

On teachers, I don't think any school here could be as bad as mine in the UK for them just not giving a toss. All but one were dire, although I would hope things have moved along since the '80s. The only real way I learnt anything of substance was by picking up a book... and reading Thaivisa of course

[anonymouse]

I think if the school's in a convenient spot for you and looks good enough it's worth trying out. You can always change as and when. Of course you need to gen up on a place first, but it could be the best around and your nipper just doesn't get on with it. I also think that pushing too much homework on them at an early age is not a good thing either. Mine currently goes to Dara but I'd be looking to CMIS, Nakorn Payap or Prem if I had the dosh for sure.

On teachers, I don't think any school here could be as bad as mine in the UK for them just not giving a toss. All but one were dire, although I would hope things have moved along since the '80s. The only real way I learnt anything of substance was by picking up a book... and reading Thaivisa of course

Totally agree with Jack on everything he says here, I'd send my mine to Prem as well if I won the lottery.

My school in the UK was pretty much the same as well, luckily I was an avid reader as well, I'm not sure things have improved though

[PeaceBlondie]

I went through one of the top ten state schools in the US. My daughter teaches chemistry at one of the best state "magnet" schools for geniuses in Texas. If you could get your kid into a satit demonstration school here - the prathom is at Chiang Mai Rajabat north off Chotana Road; the matayom is at CMU - they might be half decent. I suspect other state schools destroy children's minds. I'm often mystaken.

[Chunkton]

Kids at Varee at one stage were being fined 5 baht regularly by their teacher, nice little racket cumulatively. This has been stopped though.

Schools are a serious matter, I am considering Prem, but it would hurt me financially. Seems to be about 500,000 baht per year and I have 2 kids...ouch.

Is it really the ONLY good international school? Honest replies appreciated because just visiting a school doesn't tell you everything.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am considering Prem, but it would hurt me financially. Seems to be about 500,000 baht per year and I have 2 kids...ouch.

Is it really the ONLY good international school? Honest replies appreciated because just visiting a school doesn't tell you everything.

CMIS, APIS, Lanna, Grace, Nakornping, Prem.

[Greenside]

I am considering Prem, but it would hurt me financially. Seems to be about 500,000 baht per year and I have 2 kids...ouch.

Is it really the ONLY good international school? Honest replies appreciated because just visiting a school doesn't tell you everything.

CMIS, APIS, Lanna, Grace, Nakornping, Prem.

Don't you mean Nakornpayap International School ?

Does the cost of a school or its facilities really guarantee anything? I believe it's a mysterious mixture of the ability and attitude of the child, the teachers who happen to be taking his or her particular classes, the child's circumstances at home, the teacher's circumstances at home, parent's expectations and the pressure that can go with them and a dozen or more other factors down to how far you live away from the place.

I think finding a happy and decently equipped school that you can afford and reach without undue stress and which offers a curriculum that will suit what you have in mind for further education is the best you can possibly do. When they are at whichever school you choose then keep a close eye on what's happening, try and get involved as a parent and be open to change if it's not working out. Talk to the teachers. Be direct and remember that (technically, at least) you're the customer...

Edited September 14, 2009 by Greenside

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, Nakorn Payap; not the condo

[jackr]

Does the cost of a school or its facilities really guarantee anything? I believe it's a mysterious mixture of the ability and attitude of the child, the teachers who happen to be taking his or her particular classes, the child's circumstances at home, the teacher's circumstances at home, parent's expectations and the pressure that can go with them and a dozen or more other factors down to how far you live away from the place.

Yep, a lot is also to do with what's going on at home and the genes. Joking aside, but I also think it's a good idea to keep them from watching too much Thai TV (or too much of any TV for that matter)... but in particular the chance of being brainwashed from a typical soap followed by 'joker' is dangerously high.

[scorecard]

Well now I'm totally confused.

Actually I'm just starting the search for a school for my grandaughter in CM:

- Four and a half years old, Thai citizen.

- Currently in final year of Kinder at Amnuay Silpa bi-lingual school here in Bkk (Excellent school).

- Can already read and write English (and Thai), already speaks small sentences in English, and understands a lot of English.

- Parents strong preference is for her to have most of her schooling in English language by western teachers, but of course she must be fully capable in her native Thai language, and parents desperately want her to experience more western/participative style of teaching/learning (This is mostly driven by her fathers (my Thai son's) school experience in Singapore).

- Cannot afford full international school fees.

- Realize there is no magic answer and we must make some compromises.

From what I read so far seems to me that the best options (not perfect) are Varee or the Convent school.

Would appreciate constructive comments.

Thanks.

[anonymouse]

Well now I'm totally confused.

Actually I'm just starting the search for a school for my grandaughter in CM:

- Four and a half years old, Thai citizen.

- Currently in final year of Kinder at Amnuay Silpa bi-lingual school here in Bkk (Excellent school).

- Can already read and write English (and Thai), already speaks small sentences in English, and understands a lot of English.

- Parents strong preference is for her to have most of her schooling in English language by western teachers, but of course she must be fully capable in her native Thai language, and parents desperately want her to experience more western/participative style of teaching/learning (This is mostly driven by her fathers (my Thai son's) school experience in Singapore).

- Cannot afford full international school fees.

- Realize there is no magic answer and we must make some compromises.

From what I read so far seems to me that the best options (not perfect) are Varee or the Convent school.

Would appreciate constructive comments.

Thanks.

One factor to look into is how far the school is situated from your house, my son gets a school bus at around 6.30am and returns around 5pm which is a long day for a child, Other children in the moo baan arrive home even later.

There are a lot of other schools in CM that run English language programme's, Sarasas is one that I haven't heard much feeback from good or bad.

Both my children are at kindergarden age, the girl I hope to send to Sacred Heart, I'm still undecided if my boy will stay at Dara or not.

I'm fairly confused myself

[Mapguy]

I went through one of the top ten state schools in the US. My daughter teaches chemistry at one of the best state "magnet" schools for geniuses in Texas. If you could get your kid into a satit demonstration school here - the prathom is at Chiang Mai Rajabat north off Chotana Road; the matayom is at CMU - they might be half decent. I suspect other state schools destroy children's minds. I'm often mystaken.

PB is graceful and quite accurate, in my view, and becomingly modest in his assessment. He is bang on regarding his recommendation for one path to getting a "good education," but it is not a path that most people will find comfortable. Nonetheless, take a look. I recommend wearing a tie and speaking more than a passable Thai

I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem. Fair enough. The other options have their understandable limitations.

If you want a good Thai school In Chiang Mai, there are some, but generally Thai private (Never mind government!) schools are far behind in decent levels of international educational expertise. You will only get a good education somewhat suitable for Thailand. Don't despair even though so many Thai university graduates end up being clerks on commission at super stores! Things are getting better; not worse. I hope!

Much depends on your expectations as well as upon your budget. I would not recommend a bilingual school myself, but there are a few of them in Chiang Mai which are not shoddy, particularly in early primary grades. Learning more than "bar girl" English is a definite plus! Much more important, too, than the practical knowledge of epidemiology that bar girls have.

[BlackArtemis]

Don't forget that attitude at home makes a huge difference as well as tutoring.

My wife (native Thai) went through Dara from start to finish then went on to CMU for English. Her father and mother were involved in her education and she went to the British consulate over the summers. She will soon be going for he Masters here in the US. In fact she herself thinks that a prominent Thai program with private English tutoring is better than most bilingual programs.

[Chunkton]

I went through one of the top ten state schools in the US. My daughter teaches chemistry at one of the best state "magnet" schools for geniuses in Texas. If you could get your kid into a satit demonstration school here - the prathom is at Chiang Mai Rajabat north off Chotana Road; the matayom is at CMU - they might be half decent. I suspect other state schools destroy children's minds. I'm often mystaken.

PB is graceful and quite accurate, in my view, and becomingly modest in his assessment. He is bang on regarding his recommendation for one path to getting a "good education," but it is not a path that most people will find comfortable. Nonetheless, take a look. I recommend wearing a tie and speaking more than a passable Thai

I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem. Fair enough. The other options have their understandable limitations.

If you want a good Thai school In Chiang Mai, there are some, but generally Thai private (Never mind government!) schools are far behind in decent levels of international educational expertise. You will only get a good education somewhat suitable for Thailand. Don't despair even though so many Thai university graduates end up being clerks on commission at super stores! Things are getting better; not worse. I hope!

Much depends on your expectations as well as upon your budget. I would not recommend a bilingual school myself, but there are a few of them in Chiang Mai which are not shoddy, particularly in early primary grades. Learning more than "bar girl" English is a definite plus! Much more important, too, than the practical knowledge of epidemiology that bar girls have.

Mappguy, it seems you are saying that Prem is the only option for a good education. My kids already speak English but thank you for the analogy to a bargirls anatomical knowledge, really helpful to parents and gives your educational review real credibility.

This was exactly the question I previously asked. I am pleased that you could easily afford 1 million baht per year for two kids, but it isn't that easy for many. And yes you and PB seem to be saying that is the only real option despite him mentioning some others off hand. Look you guys call a spade a spade and spit it out. If others are OK frickin' nominate a couple or say it straight.

[anonymouse]

I went through one of the top ten state schools in the US. My daughter teaches chemistry at one of the best state "magnet" schools for geniuses in Texas. If you could get your kid into a satit demonstration school here - the prathom is at Chiang Mai Rajabat north off Chotana Road; the matayom is at CMU - they might be half decent. I suspect other state schools destroy children's minds. I'm often mystaken.

PB is graceful and quite accurate, in my view, and becomingly modest in his assessment. He is bang on regarding his recommendation for one path to getting a "good education," but it is not a path that most people will find comfortable. Nonetheless, take a look. I recommend wearing a tie and speaking more than a passable Thai

I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem. Fair enough. The other options have their understandable limitations.

If you want a good Thai school In Chiang Mai, there are some, but generally Thai private (Never mind government!) schools are far behind in decent levels of international educational expertise. You will only get a good education somewhat suitable for Thailand. Don't despair even though so many Thai university graduates end up being clerks on commission at super stores! Things are getting better; not worse. I hope!

Much depends on your expectations as well as upon your budget. I would not recommend a bilingual school myself, but there are a few of them in Chiang Mai which are not shoddy, particularly in early primary grades. Learning more than "bar girl" English is a definite plus! Much more important, too, than the practical knowledge of epidemiology that bar girls have.

Mappguy, it seems you are saying that Prem is the only option for a good education. My kids already speak English but thank you for the analogy to a bargirls anatomical knowledge, really helpful to parents and gives your educational review real credibility.

This was exactly the question I previously asked. I am pleased that you could easily afford 1 million baht per year for two kids, but it isn't that easy for many. And yes you and PB seem to be saying that is the only real option despite him mentioning some others off hand. Look you guys call a spade a spade and spit it out. If others are OK frickin' nominate a couple or say it straight.

Mapguy likes to potificate on these subjects, he obvioulsy has some knowledge about the education system in Thailand but seldom adds anything of value to the topic.

What the cr*p about bar girls was about your guess is as good as mine

[anonymouse]

Don't forget that attitude at home makes a huge difference as well as tutoring.

My wife (native Thai) went through Dara from start to finish then went on to CMU for English. Her father and mother were involved in her education and she went to the British consulate over the summers. She will soon be going for he Masters here in the US. In fact she herself thinks that a prominent Thai program with private English tutoring is better than most bilingual programs.

A valid post from BA, giving hope to us plebs who can't afford to pay the half a million baht tutition fees for Prem

[PeaceBlondie]

Please note Mapguy's proper use of the indefinite acticle: "I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem." I put a in bold. Neither of us are shills for Prem. I listed 5 schools here, mis-spelling Nakornpayap, not to be confused with Payap University across town. I listed two satit schools, There may be good bilingual programs.

I feel sorrow and pity for farang who can't afford to provide reasonably priced, high quality education for their loved ones.

[anonymouse]

Please note Mapguy's proper use of the indefinite acticle: "I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem." I put a in bold. Neither of us are shills for Prem. I listed 5 schools here, mis-spelling Nakornpayap, not to be confused with Payap University across town. I listed two satit schools, There may be good bilingual programs.

I feel sorrow and pity for farang who can't afford to provide reasonably priced, high quality education for their loved ones.

I feel sure that there are a lot of farang parents in the same boat as me who couldn't afford to send two kids to an International School so you'd be dishing out a whole lot of sorrow and pity quality education at reasonable prices I'm also not so sure about...

That aside can you elaborate on the satit schools, I've done a google search and there doesn't seem to be much information out there.

[BlackArtemis]

Some further encouragement for you is that I know plenty of CMU students in English programs who have made it over to the US, UK, for Aus. I know for a fact that they didn't study at a private school either.

I agree that Prem is expensive, but the others have listed many other schools. CMIS is up to 3x less than Prem and seems to be a good choice if you are American (AP courses and the such). As I stated in another thread, I currently attend university with a girl from CMIS and she is pulling a high GPA.

[PeaceBlondie]

"Satit" schools are apparently affiliated with university schools of education, and located on the main campus. I visited one; I suspect they only accept the best academic students.

[hanuman1]

Will be looking into Montford and a couple of other places this fall because I fear for my kids if they ever have to get a job outside of Thailand.

If you seriously want to enable your kids to compete in the international jobs market, then surely an International School is the only real option. No matter how good the English programme may be in a Bilingual School, if it's teaching the Thai curriculum then the resulting qualifications will have limited appeal to employers or further education establishments outside Asia. I would have thought Montfort, would be teaching the same or likely a more limited set of lessons than your son is receiving now and I don't think the class sizes are significantly different either. Schools teaching curricula such as SAT, IB or IGCSE are all available around CM, albeit at a significantly higher cost.

P.S. There are one or two great farang teachers in the BP program who in my opinion are slumming it at this school.

By this you mean what, exactly? They're too good to be teaching our kids? They should be in one of the other programmes/other schools? It's likely that the teachers and the parents of kids being taught by them feel differently - I know I would.

If your child comes home without homework, is it because he isn't set any or does he leave it at school or even do it before he comes home? I find that if my stepson says hasn't got any, a quick look in his homework book usually leads to the facts and since I make an effort to ensure he does it and then to sign his book I assume that he's doing what is required. Granted, the homework he is set seems a fairly small amount but I don't think I want to preside over hours of set work every evening after he's had an eight hour day at school. At eight, half an hour seems like a fair amount.

I do understand that the Thai system is generally light on homework and heavy on extra tuition but other than extra lessons to get my stepson's written Thai up to standard (blame firmly with the last school by the way), I don't see any particular problems beyond those I came across in the UK during a previous life.

Writing that, it occurred to me to wonder if the emphasis on extra coaching rather than homework might be designed to serve the purpose of reducing the workload of the daytime teaching staff, shifting it to outside tuition so they can supplement their income beyond the tax system. The teachers I know in the UK put in a huge amount of time marking homework outside "normal" school hours for which the pay and holiday structure is supposed to compensate (although I know many would argue about how effective it does that!). If homework was doled out in the same quantities as in Europe teachers here would seldom have the time or energy to moonlight. I'm referring to Thai schools in general by the way, not Varee. Just a thought...

Greenside, I think your points are all valid and I realise that marking homework is very time consuimg for teachers. I just think that homework is too important an activity to be treated in as offhand a manner as it is at Varee. Sometimes my kid says she's done all her homework in school. If it's done in school then by definition it isn't homework, and I'm not just being pedantic about terminology here because the act of doing homework implies that the child is thinking for themselves alone when they are doing it.

Learning is what takes place at school. Processing information and organizing thoughts to come up with coherent answers is what should happen at home, cementing in their mind what was taught during the day. So homework is disticntly different from 'school' work. If a child does their homework well, they know they are able to grasp ideas, communicate effectively and generally get the hang of new concepts. If they do the homewrok badly then they know what areas they need to try harder with. Either way, only homework can ellicit any kind of true picture of the kid's current abilities as it is done solely by themselves, without the aid of peers or teachers.

If a lack of homework is a general trait in Thai schools, it would fit in well with some people's general perception that many Thai people don't like to (or can't) think for themselves. What better example of an activity where you have to think for yourself is there than doing homework?

Cheers

H.

P.S. My comment about the farang teachers was in no way meant to be a slur on anyone's kids at Varee. One or two of them just struck me as being the kind of enthusiastic professionals that you commonly find towards the top end of any industry.

[Greenside]

If a lack of homework is a general trait in Thai schools, it would fit in well with some people's general perception that many Thai people don't like to (or can't) think for themselves. What better example of an activity where you have to think for yourself is there than doing homework?

P.S. My comment about the farang teachers was in no way meant to be a slur on anyone's kids at Varee. One or two of them just struck me as being the kind of enthusiastic professionals that you commonly find towards the top end of any industry.

I agree with your comments about the value of homework but it does indeed seem that less emphasis is placed on it in the Thai curriculum. Having sat with my stepson to see that he really could do his homework just a few hours ago I remain pleased that our choice of school seems to have enabled him to think for himself and hope that it may long continue.

As for your comment about teachers, it only appears valid if you consider VCS as inferior in some way and I have to say that I don't find it surprising that it can attract some high quality staff - in fact I'm delighted! It may not offer our kids the quite the class size and curriculum of an International School but from what I see it stands head and shoulders above the average Thai establishment especially as regards the English Programme, and the fees generally reflect it's position in the local market.

[hanuman1]

I guess I should see the glass as being half full...

[Chunkton]

Please note Mapguy's proper use of the indefinite acticle: "I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem." I put a in bold. Neither of us are shills for Prem. I listed 5 schools here, mis-spelling Nakornpayap, not to be confused with Payap University across town. I listed two satit schools, There may be good bilingual programs.

I feel sorrow and pity for farang who can't afford to provide reasonably priced, high quality education for their loved ones.

I don't think either of you are shills for Prem, nor intimated as such, however apart from naming other International Schools you recommend none but Prem. That is fine, and good information if you believe it is the only decent school. I was wanting you to simply confirm my interpretation, rather than play silly semantics with a preposition that does nothing to change what was intimated. A Prem implies Prem or similar quality does it not?

I am not sure where you comment about sorrow and pity for farangs that can't afford "a" Prem comes in except as a demeaning insult for many loving parents that are not wealthy but are searching for the best affordable option.

Correct me if I am wrong but entering just one of my kids for 1 year into Prem would cost more than your recently vaunted house would it not?

I can afford two kids into Prem, as stated with considerable pain and reduced assets, but how does that help others that can't who just would like a straight answer to which are the best schools in descending order, as I'll bet there will be at least one there that is pretty good and affordable. You and Mapguy claim to have all the answers, so how about coughing it up.

[Mapguy]

Please note Mapguy's proper use of the indefinite acticle: "I sense that many good-hearted and loving parents read these threads, but that they are on limited budgets that wouldn't have room for enrollment in a Prem." I put a in bold. Neither of us are shills for Prem. I listed 5 schools here, mis-spelling Nakornpayap, not to be confused with Payap University across town. I listed two satit schools, There may be good bilingual programs.

I feel sorrow and pity for farang who can't afford to provide reasonably priced, high quality education for their loved ones.

I don't think either of you are shills for Prem, nor intimated as such, however apart from naming other International Schools you recommend none but Prem. That is fine, and good information if you believe it is the only decent school. I was wanting you to simply confirm my interpretation, rather than play silly semantics with a preposition that does nothing to change what was intimated. A Prem implies Prem or similar quality does it not?

I am not sure where you comment about sorrow and pity for farangs that can't afford "a" Prem comes in except as a demeaning insult for many loving parents that are not wealthy but are searching for the best affordable option.

Correct me if I am wrong but entering just one of my kids for 1 year into Prem would cost more than your recently vaunted house would it not?

I can afford two kids into Prem, as stated with considerable pain and reduced assets, but how does that help others that can't who just would like a straight answer to which are the best schools in descending order, as I'll bet there will be at least one there that is pretty good and affordable. You and Mapguy claim to have all the answers, so how about coughing it up.

There is no "straight answer" in this situation. I'm not trying to be cagey, and I am not trying to pontificate (as I have been accused). All I've been trying to do is present my own opinions from my own experience on the question of where to send kids to school. Yes, I do have some appropriate background. Yes, I have spent a lot of time on it. Is my budget limited? Of course! Whose isn't?! Have I chosen the right ones? I hope so! So far, so good. I have made my own personal decisions, but I am not going to share those because what I decided is most likely not be best for others' circumstances and expectations.

Sorry --- and I don't mean this in a condescending way --- you know your situation and your kids best. You've got to do your own homework! And you can, but there is no "Frommer's" with precise rankings! There is, however, some (depending on the school) information on the internet and you simply have to spend time making appointments, preparing good questions, making the visits, and all that sort of thing.

There is no magic formula, no "top ten." I'd give one guideline (of a sort) that is not always true but probable the best of those generally available: "You get what you pay for!" But, really, I even want to take that advice back! It, again, depends upon what your expectations are.

Oh --- incidentally --- someone thought I was being snide somewhere above when I spoke about "bar girl Engish." When it comes to having a good educational background, bar girls generally don't nor should be expected to have one; otherwise, they probably wouldn't be bar girls. Their Thai, beyond everyday conversational Thai, is also most likely limited in sophistication. They have a "survival" language ability. Some are multilingual: English, Japanese, Korean, even Australian! You have to admire them for that. Their survival depends upon a certain vocabulary as well as a lot of sign language. Language ability is limited to their education, their experience and their need to make a living. I think, however, that few parents would wish to thus limit their children's education. If someone took this as a slur upon bar girls (or guys), then they got me absolutely wrong. For that, I apologize.

If you want to switch off to a related situation, check what PB has to say about Thai families, tutors for Thai children, and expectations among Thai middle and upper-middle class people ....... That is all quite interesting, but this forum seems so outstandingly a farang discussion venue with all foreign or half-Thai families to be considered. I doubt it will be of much interest to many people.

Anyway, whoever you are, I wish you well on the schools thing. One pontification left!!!!! Interested and thoughtful mothers and fathers means much, much more than teachers ever will!

Over to you, PB ?!

[anonymouse]

Anyway, whoever you are, I wish you well on the schools thing. One pontification left!!!!! Interested and thoughtful mothers and fathers means much, much more than teachers ever will!

Over to you, PB ?!

I forgive you on your pontificating this once as I totally agree with these sentiments