Where is a phone number?

[Mr Average]

To all you handsome, good-hearted men out there who send money to little bar girlies, why do you do it?

Is it because you can't find a normal girlfriend, or do you truly believe that that little prostitute you met last February in that little bar in Pattaya actually thinks of you as anything other than a fat, bald and completely stupid prick?

Imagine how you'd laugh if you read a story about some boring Japanese tourist in London who'd met and fallen in love with a grotty backsteet whore and was now sending her money every month because he thought she loved him.

Next time you're over here in sunny Thailand, open your eyes a little and you may notice that normal women exist here as well.

All it takes is the balls to go and talk to them.......

[Heng]

I think the problem is that when a foreigner walks into the falang oriented bars and restaurants here, the working girls jump up and "really make them feel welcome, attractive, and important."    And then, after getting burned a time or two, they head out to some of the mainstream bars and restaurants... Brew Pavillion, Gotcha, Gecko, The Pool, or wherever... and then when no one jumps up and puts their arms around them, most locals ingore them, and even the waiters and waitresses barely make an effort in serving them, they think "this place is so lame, these people are so cliquish, uptight, etc...."    ...not long after, they're back in the foreign oriented establishments.

Alternatively, there are the girls who are of low socio-economic status (like your typical girl working in a department store)... which is a step up from working girl, but often offers the exact portfolio of problems, only on a less "professional" level.

Often, unless introduced by Thai friends, it's often blind, dumb luck to meet someone who is your socio-economic equal in Thailand.    And for those who might be of a background say where your family doesn't make anything, sell anything, or have any kind of basket of assets, and maybe you haven't had much formal schooling...  hooking up with someone above your status (even if your own perception of your status is "better" somehow because of your life experience and ethnic origin), can be downright near impossible.  

:cool:

[Mr Average]

Heng,

The point I believe you're trying to make is that it's hard to meet "Mrs Right" here in sunny Thailand. Well guess what, it ain't easy either back home in London.

The thing is that if you don't even try then you're very clearly never going to succeed. Considerations of socio-economic status, or "class", are much the same here as they are back home and appear to be flouted just as often and with equal disdain. I know of several foreign men who've paired off with women more educated, intelligent and wealthy than themselves

The real point of my last posting was that the men who send money to prostitues claim to do so out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't. They do so because they are in love and belive their little prostitute "girlfriend" feels the same.

The sooner they realise this,the sooner they'll start looking elsewhere. Admittedly they'll no longer be the laughing stock of that little bar in Pattaya where they first met their little "girlfriend", but they will save themselves a great deal of money.

[Butterfly]

how do they handle the arrival of two at the one time?  

never seems to happen,the arrivals and departures are worked out beforehand with almost military-like precision.

like i said,these girls are brilliant and their talents are really wasted as hookers. with a decent education they would go far. but laziness and easy money take precedent!!

hey taxexile, I have witnessed the same thing as you did. pretty funny stories. but don't give out that little secret or they will stop "sponsoring" those girls and they will no longer come down to your shop and buy their "Santhip"

[taxexile]

spot on butterfly,

keep those readies pouring in boys,keep sweating away,pack in some overtime before christmas because the baht rate is pretty strong. your tilaks wont be happy with a shortfall... and pops-in-law is taking us all up to chiang mai for new year...thanks lads.

[Bulldog]

spot on butterfly,

keep those readies pouring in boys,keep sweating away,pack in some overtime before christmas because the baht rate is pretty strong. your tilaks wont be happy with a shortfall... and pops-in-law is taking us all up to chiang mai for new year...thanks lads.

I think i will have that drink with you pal, no alcohol for me though, it alters the mind, and makes people run off at the mouth too much.

I will be there 15th December, give us your address, can i bring my prostitute with me? Is she acceptable in your world? am i? If you got the balls, we can sort out my stupidity.

[Maigo6]

spot on butterfly,

keep those readies pouring in boys,keep sweating away,pack in some overtime before christmas because the baht rate is pretty strong. your tilaks wont be happy with a shortfall... and pops-in-law is taking us all up to chiang mai for new year...thanks lads.

I think i will have that drink with you pal, no alcohol for me though, it alters the mind, and makes people run off at the mouth too much.

I will be there 15th December, give us your address, can i bring my prostitute with me? Is she acceptable in your world? am i? If you got the balls, we can sort out my stupidity.

Bulldog

Down boy.  

Careful Tax, some people you do not want any part of. Trust me mate, i know Bulldog. Up To You though.

[taxexile]

bulldog,

prostitutes are perfectly acceptable in my world,i never said they weren't.i neither look up to,nor look down on them or anybody else on this planet.they are streetwise characters with a unique view of the world, but, personally speaking i would not want to get involved in any kind of relationship with one.

i spent two years as a  user of the bars etc. when i first came to thailand.like a kid in a sweetshop.all that easy sex,i never really had any bad experiences,lived with a girl for a few months,etc.etc.etc.but after a couple of years i had enough of all the crap that goes along with it all. it wasn't for me anymore.i wanted to meet a woman on more equal terms.

these days i'd rather chat with them than sleep with them,the craic is excellent,and when the positions are made clear,they buy me as many drinks as i buy for them.there is some semblance of equality,and no semblance of dependance.

people do what they do in this life for a variety of reasons,and if we all did the same things,and agreed with each other on everything,then life would be too dull.

i have my opinions and like to express them and back them up with reasoning.if you think my reasoning is rubbish, if you disagree and want to pull my argument to shreds then go ahead.i'll listen.

but please dont show yourself up by subtle threats of violence should we ever meet up for this drink.

if aggression is your only method  of discussion you are indeed a sad character,

when you say "my prostitute", what does that mean?

are you her pimp,living off her earnings?

is she your possession.

if she is a prostitute then she must be seeing other clients, in which case you can not claim her as your own.

i think ,however ,that sending money to these girls,does not help them in any way,it merely makes them dependant,the opposite of independant.it takes away self respect,and lowers self esteem.

that is not help,and people who claim that they are helping are probably doing just the opposite,

as i said previousy

you are helping nobody but yourselves.

you are helping and encouraging laziness and avarice,and keeping these women, whom you purport to help, trapped in a dependant relationship,to boost your pathetic egos.

free them from your generosity and let them fly.

but should you choose to support one by sending her money,and should she spend that money in the in-laws shop,then please keep on sending it bulldog,cos thats business,just like prostitution is a business.

i wish you well,bulldog,in your pursuit of happiness,even though you probably wish me dead.

[markt]

how do they handle the arrival of two at the one time?  

I knew a bar girl who was being sent money by at least two men.

She recieved a letter from one of the men saying he was coming over on such and such a date,  but another sponsor was due at about the same time.

She phoned one of them saying that she would be back in her village, sick mum etc and could he change his dates ?

Apparantly he did.  :laugh:

Viola!  The two men don't arrive the same time, she keeps that sponsor.

[Mr Average]

Mr Bulldog asks if he can bring his prostitute with him. My answer is that of course he can, just don't expect people not to laugh at him when he's gone.

Remember Bulldog, you're a handsome man with a good heart. Who cares what a few million people in the know (farangs and Thai) may think of you. And remember, tell her you love her and give her lots of money.

In addition, try crying when you say goodbye to her at the airport. It usually works and you may see her demands for cash ease off just a little.

And just in case you think I'm being sarcastic, remember - real women do exist here also. Have balls dear boy, have balls.......

[markt]

Back when i lived in Pattaya, i was riding my motorbike along the Beach rd past sois 7/8 at about 1am.

I was going to my friends bar, but when i got there it was closed.  

As i walked back to my bike i passed several girls sitting at a table drinking Thai whisky.  One of them asked "bai nai?"

I said i was going to soi Buakao, as there was a guest house that served beer all night down there.

The girl said that she lived in a soi off Buakao and could i give her a lift?

I drove her back to her appartment.  It was very nice, not like the usual rooms that bar girls stayed in.

Judging by the pictures on the wall and magazines lying around it was obvious she had a German b/f  paying for it all.

I never did get down that g/h for a beer as i stayed the night with her, and she never wanted any money either.  

The German b/f was giving her enough for her needs.  lol

[Butterfly]

how do they handle the arrival of two at the one time?  

I knew a bar girl who was being sent money by at least two men.

She recieved a letter from one of the men saying he was coming over on such and such a date,  but another sponsor was due at about the same time.

She phoned one of them saying that she would be back in her village, sick mum etc and could he change his dates ?

Apparantly he did.  :laugh:

Viola!  The two men don't arrive the same time, she keeps that sponsor.

A classic. My mother is sick, wait for me in the hotel and I will be in back in 2 weeks

Actually I knew one guy who was staying in Thailand for the year, had the regular Thai girlfriend (free sex) but she would keep disappearing every 2 months for like 2 weeks as she had to take care some important business in the "village". I try telling the guy that "village business" meant the "sponsors" coming in town, but he was in complete denial and wouldn't believe me. After all, he was not paying for sex so someone had to pay for it. Gotta love those stories  

[Butterfly]

I never did get down that g/h for a beer as i stayed the night with her, and she never wanted any money either.  

The German b/f was giving her enough for her needs.  lol

Got a better one. I was with that girl one night having passion sex when the next morning at 6:00am, the "farang" boyfriend decided to show up unannonced as a surprise for her.

The guy (knocking): "hey baby, it's me, open up"

The girl: "me, who ? who are you ?"

The guy: "your man"

The girl (total panic): "but wait, aren't you suppose to come tomorrow ?"

The guy: "I wanted to make you a suprise"

The girl (not happy): "but baby, I wanted to come to get at the Airport, why coming now ?"

The girl keeps arguing why he came unannonced etc... while I am dressing up and jump by the window...

I met her again, 2 weeks later, when the stupid boyfriend left...

I couldn't do that kind of shit now... too risky...  

[Johnt]

I have tried something similar, I stay the night with a girl, and her phone keep ringing, and everytime she have to go outside the room to speak. Well back again, she told me it was her boyfriend. She tell he support her with money every month, but that she always could use more.

She dont feel it was wrong what she do with me, and next day I see her with another "farang"

They simply dont care. Only a few know what true love is. And many girl have a hard childhood, without their parents love and care same we get in the western world. That sure affect their life. So I think most relationship is sure only based of money, but if both part is ok about that, then why change it. :cool:

[Orthelius]

Well, considering I only asked originally about area codes and IP addresses, got a tremendous amount of reponse. It seems that many have been burned by the fake girlfriend and retain a tiny well of bitterness and jaded cynicism. Sorry to hear that. My eyes are open and I'm not looking for a wife. She's funny and smart and a great food and culture guide. Well worth the price.  Couldn't care less about any moral quandries anyone may have with support. Not looking to change the world, merely experience a wacky corner of it. Thanks for all the advice?

[Heng]

I never did get down that g/h for a beer as i stayed the night with her, and she never wanted any money either.  

The German b/f was giving her enough for her needs.  lol

Got a better one. I was with that girl one night having passion sex when the next morning at 6:00am, the "farang" boyfriend decided to show up unannonced as a surprise for her.

The guy (knocking): "hey baby, it's me, open up"

The girl: "me, who ? who are you ?"

The guy: "your man"

The girl (total panic): "but wait, aren't you suppose to come tomorrow ?"

The guy: "I wanted to make you a suprise"

The girl (not happy): "but baby, I wanted to come to get at the Airport, why coming now ?"

The girl keeps arguing why he came unannonced etc... while I am dressing up and jump by the window...

I met her again, 2 weeks later, when the stupid boyfriend left...

I couldn't do that kind of shit now... too risky...  

If motorcycle taxi drivers and bartenders could speak a little better English, about 300,000 of them could probably share similar stories.

 :laugh:

[Heng]

Heng,

The point I believe you're trying to make is that it's hard to meet "Mrs Right" here in sunny Thailand. Well guess what, it ain't easy either back home in London.

The thing is that if you don't even try then you're very clearly never going to succeed. Considerations of socio-economic status, or "class", are much the same here as they are back home and appear to be flouted just as often and with equal disdain. I know of several foreign men who've paired off with women more educated, intelligent and wealthy than themselves

The real point of my last posting was that the men who send money to prostitues claim to do so out of the goodness of their hearts. They don't. They do so because they are in love and belive their little prostitute "girlfriend" feels the same.

The sooner they realise this,the sooner they'll start looking elsewhere. Admittedly they'll no longer be the laughing stock of that little bar in Pattaya where they first met their little "girlfriend", but they will save themselves a great deal of money.

Agree with your first and third paragraph points.   My point was that a lot of guys do try (I mean it's not like they don't know they are dating the lower end of the spectrum and one would have to be blind to not see that there are better offerings out there), and go back to dating "the easy way" (it's easier when one party is socio-economically superior to the other party... like giving away donuts to someone who is hungry... it doesn't mean that your donuts are anything to brag about) when it doesn't seem to work out (or even get past step one introductions).

I didn't say it was impossible, just not very common.  And not just because people don't try.  

[pantarei]

Those who do not agree with Taxexile and Heng's posts may want to check out

http://www.pattayapages.com/girls/

Read "Noi's story", "mike's story" and follow the link to Stephen Leather's novel.

"Stephen Leather has written a novel called Private Dancer that well illustrates some of the problem that occur when cultures clash. It is perhaps a little cynical but a good warning for the unwary. You can download and read the novel for free."

The "pattayapages" website does not appear to be run by LOS newbies.  The website contains a comprehensive list of beer and gogo bars in pattaya.

[Begs]

Well my experience is really funny also, i met this girl in Bkk in a shop, below some apartments, that sells drinks to bargirls, her family own it, she has a farang, but he is on the computer all day when he is not drunk, she was once a neglected woman, she is now no longer neglected. And yes she is better than a bargirl, cos i do her for free, and she is up for anything.

Why pay when you can get another farangs woman for free?

[dalmatian]

Been away a few days so picked up the end of this thread but must say it was fun to read. Nearly everybody who has been in LOS long enough knows exactly what taxexile is saying. I think we would be idiots if we didn't agree. Good luck to him if he is making money from everybody.

I must admit certain comments amounting to threats should not be placed on the forum, this is a zone of debate, comment, advice and opinion not threat.

Anyhow, haven't most of us been stung at one time unless of course you only came here once in your life for 2 weeks, got married and exported the little honey out of the country almost immediately. The fact is that if you come for a good time that is what you will get so what the heck, spend your money and enjoy it while it lasts. Having a good time is what it is all about! If you believe that your girl is good to you then great, she will always make you happy but then those of us who have been here longtime have all told our friends that "she was special" and then relate the sad stories about that broken relationship to the same friends years later. Take a poll of all those who have been here say 1/2/3/5/10 years and you will probably find a rising number sharing their own sad stories of the "lost love". I love this place and would never want to leave but my eyes are wide open now and I would think that for 95% of foreigners that is the way to exist here. The law of statistics dictate that there will be a percentage of foreigners incredibly happy with a bonafide darling who loves only them and I say good luck to them. One thing we should never do is call them suckers or mugs as probably most of the 95% with their eyes wide open now were the same guys that were once the supposed mugs, suckers etc. I know I was one of them.

[Mr Average]

Heng,

Your phrase "dating the easy way" is a curious one.

By going back to this "easy way" of dating I assume you mean that having been unsuccessful in finding a decent restaurant selling steak, men go back to downmarket joints selling hamburgers.

I’m sorry my friend, but I disagree. Many moons ago when I first came here I too had my fair share of hamburgers. Big ones, thin ones, fresh ones, stale ones, the occasional double and even the odd very rare and extremely juicy one. Eventually, of course, I got bored with it all. Even after a good king size double, I still felt hungry.  

At this point I was successful in seeking out better and better restaurants and finally in locating the ideal steak.

My point is this. Even if hadn’t found what I was looking for, I would still have continued looking and would not have returned to the hamburger industry. Men move on because they are fed up with an inferior product which all to often comes with hidden and very expensive extras. Men who move on and then return are weak but, in my experience, too few in number to warrant consideration. Men who never move on and who continue blindly to pay the enormous surcharges are just plain stupid.

Anyway, please excuse me now as my dinner’s getting cold…….

[Heng]

Some men continue looking, but judging by the amount of all around whinging about having a financial and emotional drain in their lives, many (if not a majority) do not.    

Some of the reason behind this is that in many cases, the hamburgers are by no means passive.   While pitting their 5th grade educations against these foreigners, it's amazing how many are able to harpoon one.   Pregnancy and manipulation of basic male instincts (such as the "rescue" or knight in shining armor instinct) results in many foreigners ending their steak hunts early and settling for a lifetime of Burger King.  

[Mr Average]

Mr Heng

"Whinging" may (or may not) predominate in Bangkok, but elsewhere in sunny Thailand it seems not to. Maybe the whingers are more vocal, maybe they just keep a higher profile, maybe they just enjoy whinging.

One thing's for sure, a "lifetime of Burger King" seems to me to be a most unsatisfactory diet.

One more thing. I'm rather out of touch with the local hamburger industry, but when men choose to indulge themselves in this blandest of culinary offerings, are they still on the whole required to wear napkins? It's my experience that in superior steak restaurants such things are generally not required.

[Heng]

True, those who whine do stand out more.

Curiously, do you think there is a significant difference (in numbers) of falangs that have permanent residency that settle down with prostitutes and those who are still making visa runs who settle down with prostitutes?   One would think that observing the PR class of falang, one would be able to get a somewhat fair measure of the "odds" of marrying up (as you and others have)?  

I think it depends on the Burger King.   Some require it, some apparently could care less.

[Begs]

[NedKelly]

Geeeeeeesussss Tax........what an education. Hey to you guys sending the cash.....forget the girls......send it to meeeeeeeeee.......hahahaha ! Remember the saying about being born yesterday.....sorry to say it but....you were. If you have loads to throw away, fine, have fun and feel good about yourself. But the others ...just dont ask questions ! Beleive in yourself while your girl gets the religious training you are paying for. It's 4 real. They dont lie or cheat or steal. Jing jing !

[Mr Average]

Curiously, do you think there is a significant difference (in numbers) of falangs that have permanent residency that settle down with prostitutes and those who are still making visa runs who settle down with prostitutes?   One would think that observing the PR class of falang, one would be able to get a somewhat fair measure of the "odds" of marrying up (as you and others have)?  

Hard to say.  For expats who’ve been transferred to Thailand to perform a specific job, it’s probably fair to say that many have tried the odd hamburger or two, but to pair off permanently would often be social suicide.

For all the other types of men here, I doubt anyone really knows. A survey, whether written or verbal, would achieve nothing as for obvious reasons many men either lie or bend definitions.

The standard example of this point is “yes, but she’d only been working in the bar for 3 weeks, she only went with 2 men that she really liked and never accepted money from either of them”. Even more obvious is that age old classic: “yes, but she’s different”.

[Begs]

I am an open minded guy, i have lived in Thailand for 13 years, and one thing i have learnt in that time is that Thailand is not Europe or America thank god.....

Guy wants to send money        'Up To Him'

It dont work out                     'Mai Pen Rai'

All the western views on what is acceptable and what is not do not apply here in Thailand, i just know that if i was poor, uneducated, pretty, i would be out of my village and off to the bright lights, i might just get lucky. I am all for the girls getting as much as they can, look in the mirror lads, they deserve it.

[ericsshop]

I agree with most about the ladies and for the guys with hurt feelings nobody is out to hurt ya, just maybe open your eyes a bit.  

One thing I have never understood is the "sex for free" thing.  None of it is free, you ay for 90% of the ass you get in life one way or another.  

I had one friend that planned on marrying his little lady and promised to do so if she stayed out of the bar for a year.  He set her up in an apartment and for lack of a better word forced her to work at the 7-11 if she could keep the job for a year he would marry her.  She did and he did and all worked out fine.  

But.......he did have me in Thailand to keep popping in from time to time to be sure she was working at the 7-11 while he was away.  As said by many here these girls are smart I really don't know if she would have held the same job the entire year if it weren't for me.  

My meaning is this little lady could have played jobhop changing jobs every three months when he left town after each visit by quitting when he left and starting a new job 2 or 3 weeks before he came back.

This would have been my route but luckily enough it was a road I did not have to travel.

[TizMe]

Back to the original question.

Here's what Warren Olson (Thai private Eye) has to say.

"I also have a contact locally that can deliver up to 3 months outgoing calls, and the location they were made from, from all Thai mobiles, even pre-pay phones.  Not cheap, but very effective if you do need any doubts clarified."