Is Thailand Already A Failed State?

[KevinBloodyWilson]

As much as some of you apparently want it to be, no it is not anywhere near so.

Is that a rebuttal? Why is it not a failed state? What characteristics of a failed state does Thailand not yet show?

Jest the fax ma'am, jest the fax.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I think that is too strong a term. Somalia is a failed state. Thailand is no Somalia, thankfully.

Maybe a term like "floundering state" or "stalled state" or "stymied state", something like that but not failed. Not yet anyway.

I think that is about right. But it is heading for failure.

Yes and it's a damned shame. That is what drives us expats nuts. Thailand has sooo much potential -- it's very very frustrating watching Thailand so often being it's own worst enemy.

I fully agree. it is my domicile of choice too. And they are <deleted> it up for me

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I can really relate to Thailand personally. I also once had a lot of potential ...

Potential and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks.

Thing fall apart ...

The center cannot hold

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

And what rough beast indeed... the influence of the Golden Dawn is there for all to see.

Yeats is da man. Yay!

[Valjean]

I think this is way off base. Go live in Sudan or Somalia and I'm sure it would make the picture clearer what "failed" is. Problems? Sure, and it's frustrating to watch at times. It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

Let's not forget the challenges our respective countries have had as we matured. 75 into US history we had a civil war that at today's population would equate to about 2,500,000 million deaths. Or the Great Depression, or slavery and that continuing legacy. How about we look at incarceration rates in the US and ask about that failed system? Don't get me going on the US health care..

And I'll let other critique their home countries but Germany has had it's problems in it's not to distant past. How many governments has Italy gone through? Japan's "lost decade". The list can go on.

The past decades Thailand has averaged GDP growth in excess of most mature markets. It has high literacy rates and decent health care. And a political system that's struggling to get it's legs but it will in time. Maybe 10 years and maybe 25. The problems here are similar to other countries in similar stages of development - for instance most of Eastern Europe and former Soviet republics. The process isn't always pretty, there are lots of institutional challenges, but step back and it's progress.

The failed states chart on FP was very interesting - Thailand is right in the middle with a lot of other countries that sure as heck could be doing better with better leadership and institutions. And I wish it was. But a failed state when looked at objectively compared to peers around the world? I don't think the facts support that.

[RandyWhite]

Let's put it this way...If you've lived and worked here in the KINGDOM OF ILLUSIONS for more than just a few years and if you then read George Orwell's NINETEEN EIGHTYFOUR and parts of it make you feel a bit scared, then Welcome to the Thai World. But if you check with your Mia and she says, 'Honey, it ain't so!" then you have a problem. Rule #1: "Learn for yourself".

RAW.

[LooseCannon]

As much as some of you apparently want it to be, no it is not anywhere near so.

yea - these clowns crack me up.

After a lifetime of holidaying in Cleethorpes, with day trips to Grimsby via Scunthorpe, they finally 'discover' Thailand & arrive at the erroneous conclusion that 'uneven & cracked pavement between Nana Plaza & Soi Cowboy' equals 'failed state'.

Like any country Thailand has its faults, but sadly for whiners this is not one of them.

I suggest they jump on a plane & visit a couple of African countries to gain a little perspective on what constitutes a failed state.

[cdnvic]

Dysfunctional? Yes. Failed? Not at all.

Thailand functions pretty much as it chooses to. All that appears odd, or messed up by western standards such as corruption, nepotism, and lack of general order on the roads is not a result of failure, it's how the Thais like it, and it's by their standards that the country's success needs to be measured, not foreign journalists.

[jubby]

As much as some of you apparently want it to be, no it is not anywhere near so.

yea - these clowns crack me up.

After a lifetime of holidaying in Cleethorpes, with day trips to Grimsby via Scunthorpe, they finally 'discover' Thailand & arrive at the erroneous conclusion that 'uneven & cracked pavement between Nana Plaza & Soi Cowboy' equals 'failed state'.

Like any country Thailand has its faults, but sadly for whiners this is not one of them.

I suggest they jump on a plane & visit a couple of African countries to gain a little perspective on what constitutes a failed state.

Likewise , any Thai's Visiting Cleethorpes with day trips to Grimsby via Scunthorpe would quicky come to the conclusion that UK was a failed state

[siamamerican]

Thailand is not to different than most countries at the moment. We are all adjusting to realities that escaped us for the last 10+ years. House prices can't double every 5 years while income changes little, all citizens aren't responsible borrowers, and unrestrained capitalism has some flaws.

I've traveled throughout all of Thailand the last 9 months. The majority of Thais aren't panicking and ready to riot in the streets. Sure, there is only a few degrees of separation between a successful state and anarchy, but Thailand sure seems as stable as most countries. Applying western ideals to Thailand isn't fair. Could you imagine the death and destruction that would have occurred in a European country if the government was overthrown and the constitution was rewritten? Here the airport was shut down – not to frightening.

Look around and think back 10 years. Are Thais wealthier?

[Lopburi99]

The US will never win in the Afganistan when you have a people whose army, police and government are corrupt.

Just look at the history of the area.

The only way to control these countries is to occupy them, govern them and re-educate them.

If you cannot do that and can not win -get out.

The problem is that the US would suffer humiliation.

Afghanistan is approaching failed state status.

Furthermore, the war in Afghanistan definitely cannot be won. This is clear now. Even the highly conservative George Will has finally concluded that:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9083102912.html

I wish the Canadians hadn't accepted the very large role they played and continue to play in this tragic conflict.

"The only way to control these countries is to occupy them, govern them and re-educate them."

True, but this will not and should not happen.

"The problem is that the US would suffer humiliation."

At this point in time I believe further humiliation could be minimized. The role of the U.S. and allies in the war should now be redefined to be a passive support effort only to the Karzai government, with drones, ATACs intelligence, etc. Direct combat engagement should be rapidly handed over entirely to the Afghans themselves and if they aren't ready by now that's just too bad. Too many American, Canadian, British and other lives have been tragically sacrificed in this lost cause. We must be on the fast track to end further casualties.

You gotta know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em. Time to fold up this sorry hand of cards.

Let's face it -- Bin Laden won.

IMHO

Edited September 21, 2009 by Lopburi99

[PeaceBlondie]

I lived in Nicaragua; Chiapas Mexico; toured Central America; visited Venezuela during their long General Strike.None is listed as Critical, Borderline, or In Danger list of 60 countries. Nor is Thailand.

[mauGR1]

the fact that many Farangs who have failed in their own countries live in Thailand indicates that the situation can't be too bad

Some people spend their time criticizing Thailand..

They'd better ask themselves why they come here,and what positive are they doing for this country..

Unless of course they are perfect people coming from perfect countries,which of course they are not

[Heng]

Probably more relevant to ask if you have a failed life in Thailand and in general or not.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Heng

[Lopburi99]

It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

With all due respect, that's your opinion and I think it's baloney. Obama has demonstrated "leadership" by handing control over to Nancy Pilosi to develop the $1,000,000,000,000 "stimulus" plan which included over 8000 stupid projects like building tunnels so turtles can cross under a road! O promised he would go line by line through a bill to strike out unnecessary spending. Was anybody listening? Spending only what we can afford is a failed idea? Not wanting to burden children for generations to come is a bad idea?

As for right-wing "failed ideas", I think Ronald Reagan had more than a few ideas which far from failed. Personally I think the left-wingers hold the banner for failed ideas, too many to mention here.

I won't get you started on Health Care, you don't get me started on right wing vs left wing debate. BTW, evidently you subscribe to the James Carville, divide and conquer by demonizing the opposition philosophy.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Lopburi99

[ballpoint]

I fully agree. it is my domicile of choice too. And they are <deleted> it up for me

Politically, Thailand hasn't really changed for decades, so if it's currently a failed state it must have been so for just as long. I'd say you're looking for an excuse for your own failure to come to terms with the way it works, and have come to the conclusion that, because "they are <deleted> it up for me", it must be the country, and not you, that's failed.

[Maigo6]

Does Thailand does attract a large ammount of Farang Failures ? Yes !

Thailand as a whole, a failed state ? No!

Edited September 21, 2009 by Maigo6

[Valjean]

It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

With all due respect, that's your opinion and I think it's baloney. Obama has demonstrated "leadership" by handing control over to Nancy Pilosi to develop the $1,000,000,000,000 "stimulus" plan which included over 8000 stupid projects like building tunnels so turtles can cross under a road! O promised he would go line by line through a bill to strike out unnecessary spending. Was anybody listening? Spending only what we can afford is a failed idea? Not wanting to burden children for generations to come is a bad idea?

As for right-wing "failed ideas", I think Ronald Reagan had more than a few ideas which far from failed. Personally I think the left-wingers hold the banner for failed ideas, too many to mention here.

I won't get you started on Health Care, you don't get me started on right wing vs left wing debate. BTW, evidently you subscribe to the James Carville, divide and conquer by demonizing the opposition philosophy.

Let's agree to disagree and not have a US political spat in a Thai forum. Carville? Good entertainment but I wouldn't call myself a follower by any means.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

the fact that many Farangs who have failed in their own countries live in Thailand indicates that the situation can't be too bad

Some people spend their time criticizing Thailand..

They'd better ask themselves why they come here,and what positive are they doing for this country..

Unless of course they are perfect people coming from perfect countries,which of course they are not

Well, the first quoted comment is ridiculous and the second is just facile. I expect I have contributed as much as any farang to my choice of home. if anyone wants to step up to the plate I would be more than happy to trade. In the meantime, stop reducing a reasonable debate to ad-hominem comments.

If this is all you have then trust me, you need more.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I fully agree. it is my domicile of choice too. And they are <deleted> it up for me

Politically, Thailand hasn't really changed for decades, so if it's currently a failed state it must have been so for just as long. I'd say you're looking for an excuse for your own failure to come to terms with the way it works, and have come to the conclusion that, because "they are <deleted> it up for me", it must be the country, and not you, that's failed.

I' m sure you would say lots of pretty unreasonable (and unreasoned) things, and you assume both that I am a failure here and that somehow you pointing this out is going to sting. You could probably be more wrong if you tried harder but at the moment you are doing pretty well on natural ability, so I don't think additional practice is going to enhance your performance in adult discussions.

Do you really think that the fact that Thailand hasn't changed for decades is something which evidences success? Really? Wow. I think most people would call that an abject failure in an evolving world.

Edited September 21, 2009 by KevinBloodyWilson

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Does Thailand does attract a large ammount of Farang Failures ? Yes !

Agreed. This is certainly true.

Thailand as a whole, a failed state ? No!

I am interested in hearing why you say that. Can your opinion be supported by facts? You have a series of definitions to work with and your only able to give a one-word answer, which although clearly your own opinion (to which you are perfectly entitled) is hardly persuasive.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Probably more relevant to ask if you have a failed life in Thailand and in general or not.

It's a reasonable question given the number of no-hopers we all know flee here from Europe and America.

As for myself, I count moving here as one of my better decisions, and I have made some pretty bad ones over time. I am more free here than I ever was in the UK, I have a much better lifestyle and I have been more professionally successful for a number of reasons. I also consider my personal growth as having been much more significant in Thailand than it ever was in UK - again for a number of reasons.

Am I a loser? Possibly, depending on the benchmark you set. I am successful professionally, comfortable financially and emotionally happier in the onsetting autumn of life than I have ever been. I do not smoke, I do not drink, I have no need of bargirls. Depends on the benchmark.

Am I a loser for not agreeing that Thailand is some kind of Polyanna heaven? Perhaps.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Thailand is pretty good compared to it's neighbors. Would anyone rate Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Bangladesh or Malaysia as better for its citizens? Malaysia maybe in some categories.

Thailand has done a decent job of raising the living standard and balancing it with freedoms.

However comparing to developed western countries it's crazy backward and dysfunctional.

I guess it's one of those glass half empty half full type of things.

Edited September 21, 2009 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Valjean]

Does Thailand does attract a large ammount of Farang Failures ? Yes !

Agreed. This is certainly true.

Thailand as a whole, a failed state ? No!

I am interested in hearing why you say that. Can your opinion be supported by facts? You have a series of definitions to work with and your only able to give a one-word answer, which although clearly your own opinion (to which you are perfectly entitled) is hardly persuasive.

Here are some facts:

Corruption - this data show Thailand to be a little worse than average http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-...ment-corruption

Education:

Above the average on years of education: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

Above the average for literacy: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_...chooling-adults

Infant mortality rate - much better than average: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mor_rat_...000-live-births

Thailand is a emerging market economy. This is not a mature rich country like most of us come from. There is a long way to go. But it's had some very solid progress and economic growth the past 20 years. It's made political progress, abet some times two steps forward, one step backwards at times.

I'm not at all saying that there aren't serious institutional and structural issues for Thailand to face but if you look at most of it's peers the past 10-20 years it's done OK. It perhaps doesn't look so good compared to Asian peers such as Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong and other 7 dragons, but compare to averages in the Middle East or Africa in terms of improved standards of living, GDP, technology, health, democratic development, freedoms, etc. and it's all in all a pretty good record compared to peers (not to mature rich countries). And compared to 3 of it's 4 neighbors over 10-20 years it's also quite a record.

I just don't see the facts for "failed state" at all. I also don't buy at all "nothing has changed in 20 years". The facts don't back that up.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I just don't see the facts for "failed state" at all. I also don't buy at all "nothing has changed in 20 years". The facts don't back that up.

Fair enough, but the criteria for 'failed state' status were given, and you have addressed different criteria, some quite subjectively.

Then you compare Thailand with other Asian economies and note that it doesn't stack up so you compare it with Africa instead.

Nothing wrong with an opinion, but the stats you quote don't always support your covering comment. Thailand's corruption rating for example is among the worst in the world, not ' slightly above average' as you state. Haven't had time yet to have a look at the other links you posted - but thanks for posting them, I have an open mind so I will follow through in that spirit.

Thanks for the opinion, you went to the trouble of getting supporting numbers so it wasn't the usual polyanna stuff. And you didn't get abusive either, which puts you several steps ahead of the game compared with some of the others who just can't seem to grasp what adult discussion is about...

[Lopburi99]

A good thread KevinBW, and well managed by you.

I like your practice of replying to posts, and your cordiality to those with whom you disagree.

[Valjean]

I just don't see the facts for "failed state" at all. I also don't buy at all "nothing has changed in 20 years". The facts don't back that up.

Fair enough, but the criteria for 'failed state' status were given, and you have addressed different criteria, some quite subjectively.

Then you compare Thailand with other Asian economies and note that it doesn't stack up so you compare it with Africa instead.

Nothing wrong with an opinion, but the stats you quote don't always support your covering comment. Thailand's corruption rating for example is among the worst in the world, not ' slightly above average' as you state. Haven't had time yet to have a look at the other links you posted - but thanks for posting them, I have an open mind so I will follow through in that spirit.

Thanks for the opinion, you went to the trouble of getting supporting numbers so it wasn't the usual polyanna stuff. And you didn't get abusive either, which puts you several steps ahead of the game compared with some of the others who just can't seem to grasp what adult discussion is about...

Thanks.

For Curruption Thailand is #59 out of 159 countries. So 58 are better and 99 are worse. Here's how Thailand ranks with Asia.

# 5 Singapore: 9.4

# 15 Hong Kong: 8.3

# 32 Taiwan: 5.9

# 39 Malaysia: 5.1

# 40 Korea, South: 5

# 59 Thailand: 3.8

# 77 Laos: 3.3

# 78 China: 3.2

# 107 Vietnam: 2.6

# 118 Philippines: 2.5

# 131 Cambodia: 2.3

# 138 Indonesia: 2.2

# 156 Burma: 1.8

I think the Thailand to Africa or Middle East is important because overall Asia, despite what we in the west might see as democratic challenges, has done a far better job of growing their economies and bettering the life of their people than Africa or Middle East. So it's a perspective. A better apples to apples is Asia to Eastern Europe and perhaps S.America.

I don't have the time to do it but some wonky guy could take that list into Excel and give a regional average for some of these numbers.

Aid as a percentage of GDP might be an interesting indicator of failed state. Who's on welfare? Thailand is #106 of 129 - so 105 countries, including Indonesia and Philippines get more aid as a percentage.

Let's look at the original questions:

1. [A country in which the] central government so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its territory; non-provision of public services; widespread corruption and criminality; refugees and involuntary movement of populations; and sharp economic decline

• The Thai government has complete control over it's territory. There is that little border temple thing with Cambodia and the troubles in the south (which are part of a pandemic problem)
  
• Corruption is a problem - but as I indicate above Thailand is about the norm
  
• There is the issue of stateless people here - that' for sure is a nagging problem, but not at a mass scale
  
• The economy has contracted here and the estimates I see for 2009 are 0 to -3% growth, largely driving by drops in exports (down 20%) due to the world economy. This is not as good as other SEA countries but in line with a lot of others
  

2. ... a state that has been rendered ineffective (i.e., has nominal military/police control over its territory only in the sense of having no armed opposition groups directly challenging state authority; in short, the "no news is good news" approach) and is not able to enforce its laws uniformly because of high crime rates, extreme political corruption, an extensive informal market, impenetrable bureaucracy, judicial ineffectiveness, military interference in politics, cultural situations in which traditional leaders wield more power than the state over a certain area but do not compete with the state, or a number of other factors.

• 
  Thailand has a strong central government - there are no tribal leaders with more power over the central government like say Pakistan. The judiciary is a bit hard to fathom at times but they do seem to enforcing laws on Red and Yellow alike. They did rule against a very powerful ex-PM. If you take a cynical view of things this might have a ring of truth but if you look at this critically in relation to real failed states Tailand isn't close to being out of control.
  

3. A state could be said to "succeed" if it maintains, in the words of Max Weber, a monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within its borders. When this is broken (e.g., through the dominant presence of warlords, paramilitary groups, or terrorism), the very existence of the state becomes dubious, and the state becomes a failed state.

Not even close. The Thai government, red or yellow or military

• has a clear "monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within its borders". The protests and unrest we have seen are IMHO very healthy - people should be out in the stre
  

ets when they feel aggrieved and overall the governments have done OK - a coup notwithstanding.

Come on people. Have a cup of coffee and look at the facts. This is an emerging country with all the problems you'd expect. In some ways Thailand is doing very well, and others not so well but the report card is anything from a failed state as defined by those 3 definitions.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Valjean

[Lopburi99]

It's also frustrating to watch the US (I'm American) in it sure and steady decline with the lack of courage and leadership to tackle deep problems while listening to a right-wing that's about as close to a failed "state of ideas" as one can get.

With all due respect, that's your opinion and I think it's baloney. Obama has demonstrated "leadership" by handing control over to Nancy Pilosi to develop the $1,000,000,000,000 "stimulus" plan which included over 8000 stupid projects like building tunnels so turtles can cross under a road! O promised he would go line by line through a bill to strike out unnecessary spending. Was anybody listening? Spending only what we can afford is a failed idea? Not wanting to burden children for generations to come is a bad idea?

As for right-wing "failed ideas", I think Ronald Reagan had more than a few ideas which far from failed. Personally I think the left-wingers hold the banner for failed ideas, too many to mention here.

I won't get you started on Health Care, you don't get me started on right wing vs left wing debate. BTW, evidently you subscribe to the James Carville, divide and conquer by demonizing the opposition philosophy.

Let's agree to disagree and not have a US political spat in a Thai forum. Carville? Good entertainment but I wouldn't call myself a follower by any means.

Fair enough sir. We each have some passions better discussed somewhere else, agreed. Maybe over a friendly beer someday.

Re Carville. I read the book "All's Fair in Love, War and Running for President." Absolutely fascinating, I couldn't put it down. Carville is highly accomplished and although I don't approve of his methods, you can't argue with success. He was instrumental, perhaps vital in Clinton beating George Bush 41. Bush was too much of a gentleman to run against Carville's tactics . And his strategy of demonization saved Clinton again during the Lewinsky matter. Mind boggling he and Mary Matalin (GHWB41's campaign manager and co-author) are married, happily evidently.

Ok, back to topic.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Lopburi99

[ballpoint]

I' m sure you would say lots of pretty unreasonable (and unreasoned) things, and you assume both that I am a failure here and that somehow you pointing this out is going to sting. You could probably be more wrong if you tried harder but at the moment you are doing pretty well on natural ability, so I don't think additional practice is going to enhance your performance in adult discussions.

Do you really think that the fact that Thailand hasn't changed for decades is something which evidences success? Really? Wow. I think most people would call that an abject failure in an evolving world.

Hey, you're the one complaining that "they" are "<deleted>" things up for you, sounds like a failure to adapt to the country to me. And you could try reading my post, I said "Politically, the country hasn't really changed", not economically, or morally, or socially, all of which have greatly changed, and not always for the best, in the past two decades, which is as long as I've lived here.

I've seen a military strongman (Prem) in charge, followed by an elected government (Chatichai Choonhaven), followed by a coup because the government was corrupt (the famous "buffet cabinet"), followed by an appointed civilian PM (Anand Panyarachun), followed by an election, followed by a protest because an unelected general (Suchinda Kraprayoon) was going to be made PM, followed by a military crackdown, followed by the reappointment of Anand by HM the King, followed by elections which Chuan Lekpai won, followed by elections which Banharn Silpa-Archa won, followed by an election which Chavilit Yongchaiyudh won, followed by an election that Chuan won, followed by two elections that Thaksin Shinawatra won, followed by a boycotted election that installed Thaksin as caretaker PM, followed by a coup, followed by the appointment of Surayud Chulanont, followed by elections that Samak Sundaravej won, followed by his legal ouster, followed by Somchai Wongsawat being voted PM, followed by his legal ouster, followed by Abhisist Vejjajiva being voted PM. The only change is in the names, the rest is a cycle of coups, appointed PM's, elections and house dissolutions due to corruption or other law breaking. By your definition, Thailand has therefore been a failed state for at least the past 20 years, something that the economic and social progress made over that period puts the lie to. The only abnormality in the current political state of affairs is the poisonous actions and rhetoric coming from Thaksin, but that will be dealt with in time. Meanwhile, the country goes on, lives are improving. Law and order hasn't broken down, and any attempts to try and break them down were well dealt with by the governing authorities. Your biggest complaint is that you personally are being fecked up by the Thais attempts to deal with the current divisions in the country, yet you have the audacity to complain about a lack of adult discussion, and try to drag the country down to a level it clearly isn't at.

[samran]

no.

Politics is dysfunctional, and there is nepotism and the quest for power here can be described as agressive.

But the organs of state work remarkably well.

- thailand provides its citizens who universal health care, one of the few at this level of 'development' to do so. A failed state can't do that

- the country collects taxes. Perhaps not enough of those who should pay their fair share, but it does.

- It runs a social security system....failed states don't have those, last I looked.

- Contrary to what people like to believe, there are vigorous policy debate forums. The ideas may sometimes be shallow, but you got to start somewhere.

- Those at the top of the civil service, while there are a fair share of plonkers, have policy minds that can match those in most other parts of the world.

[miatai]

Probably more relevant to ask if you have a failed life in Thailand and in general or not.

It's a reasonable question given the number of no-hopers we all know flee here from Europe and America.

As for myself, I count moving here as one of my better decisions, and I have made some pretty bad ones over time. I am more free here than I ever was in the UK, I have a much better lifestyle and I have been more professionally successful for a number of reasons. I also consider my personal growth as having been much more significant in Thailand than it ever was in UK - again for a number of reasons.

Am I a loser? Possibly, depending on the benchmark you set. I am successful professionally, comfortable financially and emotionally happier in the onsetting autumn of life than I have ever been. I do not smoke, I do not drink, I have no need of bargirls. Depends on the benchmark.

Am I a loser for not agreeing that Thailand is some kind of Polyanna heaven? Perhaps.

if more farangs can be as positive as you here in thailand, then thailand is not a failed state as many would have us believe.

yindee khun ma khap.........bienvenue, welcome , glad you're one of the positive ones amongst us....thought we are going to be extinct based on the many negatives here.

have been here myself for thirty years now.......