Hitachi Breadmaker Problems

[jaideeguy]

My 3 month old hitachi breadmaker was working great up until a couple of weeks ago when it started baking bricks [not rising loaves]. I've tried changing flour [3x], changing yeast [3x] and different recipes and same results. After brick #5, I'm now suspecting the machine. I can view all the mixing and kneding and it bakes the bread [brick] but during the raising process, I feel no warmth and used to see some condensation on the view window indicating a little warmth to raise the dough.

Any suggestions or experiences?? The last thing I want to do is deal with the Hitachi service center, as Thais think a breadmaker is a toaster.......

[esbkk]

My 3 month old hitachi breadmaker was working great up until a couple of weeks ago when it started baking bricks [not rising loaves]. I've tried changing flour [3x], changing yeast [3x] and different recipes and same results. After brick #5, I'm now suspecting the machine. I can view all the mixing and kneding and it bakes the bread [brick] but during the raising process, I feel no warmth and used to see some condensation on the view window indicating a little warmth to raise the dough.

Any suggestions or experiences?? The last thing I want to do is deal with the Hitachi service center, as Thais think a breadmaker is a toaster.......

Nine times out of 10 is is a yeast problem.

Active yeast kept in the fridge last no more than about two to three months, kept in the open goes off very quickly. When getting a replacement look at the 'off date.'

[NanaFoods]

The bread should rise even in the fridge if yeast is viable.

Any problem with your rise-cycle (no warmth) should not affect your bread significantly, especially here in warm Thailand. At worst, you just pause the machine and wait a little longer to rise.

When I make sourdough bread, I use a very slow rising yeast (a San Francisco culture which I have kept alive for about 7 years) ... I just use the "dough" setting on my machine and let it rise at room temp for several hours - often overnight in the fridge, then a few more hours the next morning at room temp, depending on how sour I want it. Then I can either shape it and steam-bake it in my oven... or if I am feeling a bit lazy, just bake it in the R2D2 using the "bake" setting.

You may want to check the type of yeast you are using, the expiration date, and perhaps how you are storing it - and how the store you bought it from was storing it. You should keep your yeast airtight in the fridge, and definitely away from prolonged exposure to light. I use a light-proof airtight plastic container, and had yeast last long past its expiration date.

EDIT: By the way, I had kept some Fermipan yeast in the fridge for well over a year this way... and it never went bad (to my surprise, I must admit).

Edited September 24, 2009 by ChefHeat

[jaideeguy]

as mention in my OP, I have tried three different batches of yeast......doubtful that 3 in a row are bad and I do keep it in the fridge after opening. All are fresh.....not past the expiration date.

"The bread should rise even in the fridge if yeast is viable"

are you sure about that chefheat?? I always thought you needed a little heat to raise the dough>

You speak of sourdough......I'm talking yeast.

my next move will be to give my yeast/flour to my neighbor and see what her results are in her Panasonic breadmaker.

[fred2007]

Just a simple question to you guys where do you buy your yeast? I have a breadmaker for a long time

but I can't find yeast in our area not even the dryed one? Does tesco or big c sell them?

[Gippy]

as mention in my OP, I have tried three different batches of yeast......doubtful that 3 in a row are bad and I do keep it in the fridge after opening. All are fresh.....not past the expiration date.

"The bread should rise even in the fridge if yeast is viable"

are you sure about that chefheat?? I always thought you needed a little heat to raise the dough>

You speak of sourdough......I'm talking yeast.

my next move will be to give my yeast/flour to my neighbor and see what her results are in her Panasonic breadmaker.

You could try testing your yeast to rule that out. Put a loaf worth of yeast and half a teaspoon of sugar into some warm (but not hot) water, you should have plenty of bubbles and foam within about 10 minutes.

Chefheat is correct about not needing extra heat for yeast to work, extra heat will make the yeast work faster but it's unlikely to be your problem. I find my bread in Thailand rises twice as fast as anywhere else I have lived. I sometimes do the rises in the fridge to give the yeast time to add some extra flavour to the bread.

Did you change flour types or brands recently?

[Gippy]

Just a simple question to you guys where do you buy your yeast? I have a breadmaker for a long time

but I can't find yeast in our area not even the dryed one? Does tesco or big c sell them?

You should be able to find yeast in any Tescos, Big C, Tops, Villa or Makro. I use the Fermipan brand which works fine for me.

[jaideeguy]

Just tried the yeast test and found that yeast 1&2 seemed dead when compared with a newly purchased yeast.............will bake tomorrow and report.

[NanaFoods]

"The bread should rise even in the fridge if yeast is viable"

are you sure about that chefheat??

100% sure.

You speak of sourdough......I'm talking yeast.

I also mentioned the yeast.

Good sourdough requires a very slow rising yeast, which in turn yields time for the sour culture (Lactobacillus) to grow and develop that distinct flavor. Placing the dough in the fridge yields even more time for flavor to develop, and the dough still grows (eg: the yeast still grows) in the fridge. I've done it countless times, as I love sourdough bread, and the only place I can seem to find a good loaf here in Thailand is at home.

The same is true with pizza dough that I make at home with a faster yeast.

I occasionally make the dough ahead of time, and I put it in the fridge for several hours until ready to use, and it grows quite well in the fridge... and as Gippy mentioned, tends to yield more flavor.

my next move will be to give my yeast/flour to my neighbor and see what her results are in her Panasonic breadmaker.

"Proof" the yeast.

Most home bread recipes suggest proofing the yeast first before potentially wasting the rest of your ingredients.

Put some yeast in about 1/4 cup of lukewarm water, and a dash of sugar.

Wait 15-minutes or so....If it froths up, its good.

Edited September 24, 2009 by ChefHeat

[SlackJawChef]

Just a simple question to you guys where do you buy your yeast? I have a breadmaker for a long time

but I can't find yeast in our area not even the dryed one? Does tesco or big c sell them?

You should be able to find yeast in any Tescos, Big C, Tops, Villa or Makro. I use the Fermipan brand which works fine for me.

Hi Gippy

Can you tell me what the difference is between the Red, and the Brown pack's of Fermipan.... I spent a good 20min's, trying to find any thing on the label that would give me a clue ... in the end I bought the Brown one, and it works well, but really fast, I also use cold water, and retard in the fridge.. so what is the Red one all about

S.J.C

[Gippy]

Can you tell me what the difference is between the Red, and the Brown pack's of Fermipan.... I spent a good 20min's, trying to find any thing on the label that would give me a clue ... in the end I bought the Brown one, and it works well, but really fast, I also use cold water, and retard in the fridge.. so what is the Red one all about

S.J.C

Fermipan Red is for low sugar doughs while the brown is for high sugar doughs. The brown will work faster than the red as well. I use the red for my baking as I don't make anything particularly sweet.

[Who, me ?]

get in touch with a local building contractor and offer to produce bricks for him. A good wait to get your investment back...

[jaideeguy]

I came home to another disapointing brick [#6]. Did 'proof' the yeast and as I mentioned....with three yeasts, only the last one produced [almost violent] bubbling foam so I went with that one, followed recipe exactly.

Flour?/ have tried three batches and same results.....flat. Can see where flour can have some effect on bread rising, but should get some rising even if the flour is past date or bad batch??

have tried both white and brown sugar.....

Now, can I blame the machine???

[NanaFoods]

I came home to another disapointing brick [#6]. Did 'proof' the yeast and as I mentioned....with three yeasts, only the last one produced [almost violent] bubbling foam so I went with that one, followed recipe exactly.

Flour?/ have tried three batches and same results.....flat. Can see where flour can have some effect on bread rising, but should get some rising even if the flour is past date or bad batch??

have tried both white and brown sugar.....

Now, can I blame the machine???

B4 we blame the machine, can we have a look at your recipe?

[jaideeguy]

OK, here is the recipe that came with the machine.......

1& 1/4 cup water

1& 1/2 cups bread flour

1& 1/2 cups whole wheat flour

1& 1/2 tsp salt

3 tbl spoons sugar

1& 1/2 tbl spoon butter

1&1/2 tbl spoon dry milk

1 &1/2 tsp dry yeast

That's it....but I have successfully [in the past] added various nuts, grains,seeds etc to make up the flour totals and altho it may not raise as much, it still doubles at least in size. Now, I get no rise and have been using exact measurements.

One proof of my machine failing will come this aftenoon, as I just gave my neighbor my exact ingredients that have been failing on my Hitachi and she is making a loaf in her trusty Panasonic. If it fails to raise, then it proves that it is something in my ingredients and if it raises, then it proves it is my Hitachi......correct??

[Gippy]

One proof of my machine failing will come this aftenoon, as I just gave my neighbor my exact ingredients that have been failing on my Hitachi and she is making a loaf in her trusty Panasonic. If it fails to raise, then it proves that it is something in my ingredients and if it raises, then it proves it is my Hitachi......correct??

I would think so. Perhaps your machine is getting confused and doing a knead just before starting the baking cycle and punching all the air from the dough? If so ditch the machine and do it by hand! It's not hard to do and you do get a nicer loaf.

[SlackJawChef]

OK, here is the recipe that came with the machine.......

1& 1/4 cup water

1& 1/2 cups bread flour

1& 1/2 cups whole wheat flour

1& 1/2 tsp salt

3 tbl spoons sugar

1& 1/2 tbl spoon butter

1&1/2 tbl spoon dry milk

1 &1/2 tsp dry yeast

That's it....but I have successfully [in the past] added various nuts, grains,seeds etc to make up the flour totals and altho it may not raise as much, it still doubles at least in size. Now, I get no rise and have been using exact measurements.

One proof of my machine failing will come this aftenoon, as I just gave my neighbor my exact ingredients that have been failing on my Hitachi and she is making a loaf in her trusty Panasonic. If it fails to raise, then it proves that it is something in my ingredients and if it raises, then it proves it is my Hitachi......correct??

Have you tried starting with very warm water??

How about one more test... But after it has mixed.. pull it out ( how does the dough feel?.. soft,hard,dry,wet,sticky,smooth,dry??????) and put it in a lightly oiled bole.. cover with plastic wrap or a damp towel and leave it to rise..... if it doubles in size ... you know it's your machine... you can always punch it down shape it (& assuming you don't have an oven) put it back in your machine till it rises again. then bake it off..

I was given a bred maker many many years ago... I had the same problem... thats when I decided it was faster and more productive to just make it by hand

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over & over again ...& expecting different results

S.J.C.

Edited September 26, 2009 by SlackJawChef

[SlackJawChef]

Can you tell me what the difference is between the Red, and the Brown pack's of Fermipan.... I spent a good 20min's, trying to find any thing on the label that would give me a clue ... in the end I bought the Brown one, and it works well, but really fast, I also use cold water, and retard in the fridge.. so what is the Red one all about

S.J.C

Fermipan Red is for low sugar doughs while the brown is for high sugar doughs. The brown will work faster than the red as well. I use the red for my baking as I don't make anything particularly sweet.

Thanks Gippy

I will try the Red one....

S.J.C

[NanaFoods]

One proof of my machine failing will come this aftenoon, as I just gave my neighbor my exact ingredients that have been failing on my Hitachi and she is making a loaf in her trusty Panasonic. If it fails to raise, then it proves that it is something in my ingredients and if it raises, then it proves it is my Hitachi......correct??

I would think so. Perhaps your machine is getting confused and doing a knead just before starting the baking cycle and punching all the air from the dough? If so ditch the machine and do it by hand! It's not hard to do and you do get a nicer loaf.

That sounds plausible.

Maybe the processor or program is bugged.

The machine may still be useful, but you'd need to program in two steps. You could try setting it for "dough" cycle first, where it just mixes and kneads the dough. End program. Then let it rise on its own in the R2D2 tub (no program), then reprogram for just the "bake" cycle only.

As for the recipe, not something I would do... however, if using whole wheat, I'd add a couple tablespoons of vital wheat gluten, which would give a more elastic texture (not so crumbly), which in turn helps it rise.

[jaideeguy]

At 1pm my neighbor dropped by with a perfect loaf from her Panasonic [using my ingredients],

thereby proving that it is my Hitachi at fault.

Luckily it's still under warantee, but unluckily, I have to deal with the dodos in the service center that don't know what a breadmaker is and it will probably be sent to BKK and I'll get it back in a couple of months with the same problem.....life in LOS.

Thanks all for your input.....

Edited September 26, 2009 by jaideeguy